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Malabog Castle - Dragon's Threat
ambisinisterr
Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
The dragon seems to have some very strange threat issues occurring during runs with Guardian Fighters.
There are three phases to the dragon and between each phase is his flight stage. After he lands he seems to pick a target and stick to them like glue.
The first phase the Guardian Fighter's I have with in Malabog's Castle have absolutely no problem keeping threat on the dragon.
However the first minute of the second and third phases become hellish.
The dragon often will leave the GF not only when the other members of the party are not attacking or healing but will do so even through Enforced Threat and Aggravating Strike. It can take a good minute for an uncontested Guardian Fighter to gain consistent threat again after the aerial assault.
This doesn't effect every single Guardian Fighter according to some Guardian Fighters I have met but every one I have personally run with, including myself, has run into this problem.
My guess is that the dragon is still increasing the threat rating of a person (likely the last to hit it before it flies off) during the areal phase and when it lands again the Guardian Fighter has to overcome the inflated threat rating of a certain individual which can be quite a challenge.
If the "guaranteed" threat powers of the Guardian Fighter aren't actually programmed as absolutes this seems like the most likely culprit. I can't think of any reason why the dragon would ignore supposed guaranteed threat powers such as Enforced Threat and Aggravating Strike unless they actually simply generated stupidly high threat ratings rather than actually dictating that the GF would maintain threat for a period of time.
All I know for sure, though, is that the Guardian Fighter can and does easily hold and maintain threat on the dragon but the first minute or so between phases is unnecessarily hectic due to the threat seeming to play favorites no matter what the party does.
In case there's any doubt to the dragon hating on certain individuals after the aerial phase here is a screenshot of the dragon trying to eat our wizard:
Our wizard, who is the normal post aerial assault victim, died during the aerial assault phase and respawned to wait at the camp fire. When the dragon landed instead of going after one of the surviving party members he decided to spend the next two minutes with his rear end facing us while the remaining four players spanked his rear end.
While this is an old screenshot this happened again on one of our more recent delves just this weekend.
There are three phases to the dragon and between each phase is his flight stage. After he lands he seems to pick a target and stick to them like glue.
The first phase the Guardian Fighter's I have with in Malabog's Castle have absolutely no problem keeping threat on the dragon.
However the first minute of the second and third phases become hellish.
The dragon often will leave the GF not only when the other members of the party are not attacking or healing but will do so even through Enforced Threat and Aggravating Strike. It can take a good minute for an uncontested Guardian Fighter to gain consistent threat again after the aerial assault.
This doesn't effect every single Guardian Fighter according to some Guardian Fighters I have met but every one I have personally run with, including myself, has run into this problem.
My guess is that the dragon is still increasing the threat rating of a person (likely the last to hit it before it flies off) during the areal phase and when it lands again the Guardian Fighter has to overcome the inflated threat rating of a certain individual which can be quite a challenge.
If the "guaranteed" threat powers of the Guardian Fighter aren't actually programmed as absolutes this seems like the most likely culprit. I can't think of any reason why the dragon would ignore supposed guaranteed threat powers such as Enforced Threat and Aggravating Strike unless they actually simply generated stupidly high threat ratings rather than actually dictating that the GF would maintain threat for a period of time.
All I know for sure, though, is that the Guardian Fighter can and does easily hold and maintain threat on the dragon but the first minute or so between phases is unnecessarily hectic due to the threat seeming to play favorites no matter what the party does.
In case there's any doubt to the dragon hating on certain individuals after the aerial phase here is a screenshot of the dragon trying to eat our wizard:
Our wizard, who is the normal post aerial assault victim, died during the aerial assault phase and respawned to wait at the camp fire. When the dragon landed instead of going after one of the surviving party members he decided to spend the next two minutes with his rear end facing us while the remaining four players spanked his rear end.
While this is an old screenshot this happened again on one of our more recent delves just this weekend.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I dont think no one knows about it since it a very trick way to do it. If u or any Dev's want to know more about it just let e know and i will glad to show u how.
PS: We are not abusing this bug.
But just a tip:
Neither enforced threat nor aggravating strike have ever been claimed to be "guaranteed" agro abilities. They clearly are labeled as just generating additional threat, and actually i'm pretty sure enforced threat doesn't even do that directly - just it marks targets - which in turn generates additional threat. Aggravating strike does generates a large amount of additional threat (i'd estimate something like 300% of your damage, in addition to our flat percent modifier).
Prior to the big balance patch, i've seen enforced threat and strike fail to grab agro plenty of times. Post it, it rarely happens except versus extremely exceptional DPS.
We guardian fighters have one and only 1 "guaranteed" threat ability in our disposal. That is Knights Challenge - it gives you a short term guaranteed single target agro. Just keep in mind it's a very short duration - less than the duration of the actually double damage portion - around 3-4 seconds.
And i've used it plenty versus Fulminorax, and it has never failed to get his agro, even when he bugged out and got permanently stuck on someone outside of the combat arena it worked.. Though after a few seconds he went back to that guy.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Thanks for the tip on Knight's Challenge though. That is one ability I have not tried against the dragon but a lot of my experience is third person as I am usually the cleric in Malabog's. I'll be sure to relay that the next time we face against him.
All I know for sure is that the dragon sometimes (quite often) refuses to obey multiple forms of threat generation while other people do nothing and it seems like more often than not it is anybody besides the GF.
The aspect which makes me believe it is threat is that with a bit of time the issue seems to be alleviated until the next aerial phase.
The sad reality is GF are often not needed in most dungeons.
I personally like them because they keep the aggro under control without the need for stacking CC.
The big reason to bring them is to put ease the ability to use advantageous positioning and due to the mechanics of the fight, be it wonky AI or threat, the only way I have managed to kill the dragon is by doing a DPS race with a one or two rogues, one or two GWF's, one or two wizards and a cleric.
And while I can certainly understand it being harder to maintain threat on the dragon than the average dungeon this is pure out unpredictable which is my main complaint.
best gf ever seen!! I'm envious!
Yea true ,tho luckily the design of MC is heavily weighted towards GF abilities luckily. I think it's probably our best overall dungeon.
I've not done it a ton as i'm a bit burnt on the game. But I think I did around 10 runs, and except versus my 1 very exceptional guildies on his CW, I have never been out dps'd in the first section. Due to the fact it's generally close-ly packed groups 5ish champions + some minions, its pretty ideals for GF aoe setup (and 5 mob target limit).
Charge in drop a bit stomp/daily/surge and really only CWs can hope to keep up with that kind of AOE dps. But CWs can't charge in safely as the mobs hit quite hard.
And I was always up against high geared players - I form my own groups was pretty picky about who I took. Generally at least 12k vorpal equipped guys. My one guildie who beat me has slightly better gear than me - all best in slot ,rank7/8 but Greater vorpal vs my Greater plague. Plus he plays super aggressive since he knows he can trust me to hold agro well.
Plus the first couple bosses have fast enough attacks and tough enough adds that having a GF tank is actually helpful. Not required, but more helpful then vs most slow-attack easily dodged bosses which TRs can easily tank.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
That happened to me too. It felt like playing against a hulk or a mimic chest where using Enforced Threat would do nothing. But before the august 29th patch i hadn't that problem, so something happened to the dragon threat after that patch, or to the GF threat, whatever.
I have to say i am a protector tank, so, i cant out dps anyone. Well, except probably a healer.
**
Tooltip for the Enforced Threat taken from http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Enforced_Threat :
Enforced Threat
Encounter
Personal
30' Burst
15s cooldown
300-300 Physical Damage
Forcefully Taunt nearby foes, causing them to attack you.
Recovers Guard meter.
**