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GWF: class gameplay discussion
pando83
Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
Hi all ,here i want to create a thread to discuss many critical aspects and, may be, have some feedback and share of experience.
I'll start with mine.
Leveled a GWF as first char. Half orc. Started as a dex-str destroyer. Cleric as companion. Until level 60, i didn't find much problems finding groups for dungeons. Single player content was a pie (just got a hard time in the orc district PvE). I also practiced PvP a bit since the early levels.
Once i hit 60, i started to gear up.
I find the PvP set to be really good even if the bonus does not really work as the tooltip says. It gives power, crit and ArP, and a good defense. The 1600 hp 2 piece bonus is good, and the healing during unstoppable is good too. It's 1% every second during unstoppable. Considering i'm actually at 28k hp, it's a 1500 hp healing even with 60% determination filled.
As a destroyer, i got 24k hp and 28 AC, and i found it hard to survive in PvP. Switched to sentinel after patch. But not a full hp/regen/deflection sentinel. Most likely a hybrid. I have 5% heal on unstoppable from instigator, 10% damage increase from destroyer, and full sentinel feats. Now reached 28k hp, 3.2k power, 1.5k crit, 1.2k ArP, 600 life steal and other mixed stuff. All without enchants and with Sharpened Iceaxe as a weapon+ vigilant warlord sword knot. This is temporary, until i can get ancient castle weapon set and craft the enchants i need.
Roughly 2.2k defense, 34 AC. Also the basic 2 pieces for legs and torso are blue items with no slots, waiting to max the mailsmith profession and craft my own grade 3 epic pieces.
Plan on bringing life steal to 1k+ and add life drinker enchant to weapon.
Don't want to go full defensive with regen/deflect cause i don't want to use tenes, and a full defensive build is boring.
Want a mix of survivability and damage. Decided to go for crit rather than power.
I have 23 str, 19 con and 20 dex.
So this is my temporary setup. GS 9.5k without enchants.
For PvP:
I use IBS, crescendo, restoring strike and takedown. Pretty common.
Against CWs: i usually try to close the gap and takedown if we're in a brawl. In 1v1 i eat the damage, then rush to them. Wait for the to teleport when i reach them, and once they waste all the 3 teleports, i sprint on them again and start with my encounters. Some CWs do not teleport until they see the animation of takedown/ flourish starting, and they teleport behind you. In these cases, i start IBS (slower animation), they teleport, i sprint in the middle of IBS animation, cancelling it, and chase them. If i see they do not teleport, i do not cancel IBS. Pretty tricky, but else i would waste my encounters on these CWs. Once i get them and they can use only 1 teleport/ are on CD, it's easier to take them down.
Against DC: well ,if they're tanky and more geared than me, i can't take them down alone, usually. Same as CWs: try to takedown and attack to distrupt their defense with SOtS/crit/may be crescendo if it's up.
Against GWF: usually let them lead with takedown. If i unload my encounters first, i waste the restoring strike healing. If i use IBS and takedown, and wait to use restoring strike, i'm still not using my full potential. So i usually eat their first encounter wave, then takedown/IBS/restoring strike (if one of my encounters crit, my restoring strike will hit for more thanks to SOtS), then i go unstoppable and start with sure strike. It's a long fight, usually. Also, i usually have a hard time against full sentinel regen builds. probably the best PvP build. Sometimes can take down their defense with some crits, but until i reach my desired crit score, it's not that effective.
Against GF: if they are very good and geared, and can chain prone me to death with one rotation, i avoid them. Else, i just try to sprint avoid their charges and circle them if they have their shield up. Once i'm on their back, i start with takedown/IBS/RS. Key thing is to circle their block, and it's doable.
Against TRs: here is where i have the most problems. Really. If they are dumb and try to tank, with similar GS, they are dead or have to roll away. If they're even just a bit good, it becomes nasty. Most of the times they come from behind while i fight/ i'm low in health. And one shot me. Or they attack from stealth with ranged attacks. Here i really tried everything. Running around takes forever and your HP are drained quickly before you find them. When you find them, they roll away, then roll away, then roll away. Or go unstoppable. If i use come and get it, sacrificing, let's say, RS, when you suck them in they go ITC (invulnerability for 5 seconds), then they unload their damage on me.
Sometimes it works this way: from stealth they unleash their high damage encounters. HP go down to half or less. I go unstoppable to heal, since it's at full bar now and, if i wait, i waste it, then i try to catch them. They roll away and run around or go stealth again. Sometimes they go ITC right before they attack me, then roll away, run, roll dodge, run, roll dodge, and go stealth. Then they start to range attack from stealth. They seem to have everything: stealth, attack during stealth, ranged, high DPS, tank/ invulnerability skill. I've seen some TRs going ITC quite often. Also, they're immune when dodging, and can dodge as far as CWs teleport.
When they're really geared, you just get almost 1shotted, or 2shotted. No time to fight. Some can tank like a GF or GWF.
Looking for some good strategy to counter their stealth+ranged attack+high DPS+ invulnerability ITC+ roll dodge immunity. If i buy time, they soften me attacking from range while invisible. When i reach them, they go ITC. When ITC runs out, they dodge roll with immunity and run, then go stealth again and come back with their encounters up.
If i suck them in, they go ITC. How do you counter a rogue attacking from perma stealth if even when you get him, he can go invulnerable for 5 secs, then roll away 3 times being immune to everything?
May be the GWF is just the wrong match up for the TR class? Or is there some strategy i can't see, to at least be able to bring them on a equal ground?
General PvP strategy: I use steel grace and master at arms as passives, for cc resisntance and crit bonus. I tend to stay with my group. If they all go to first point after start, i go with them. Else, it's 1 guy to first point and 4 to centre. Sometimes 1 guy goes to the enemy base. I usually sprint towards CWs. If there's a good DC healing his team, i try to take him down or prevent him from healing, force him to move. Else, i try to takedown the TRs before they can one-shot someone. I tank as long as i can in the brawl, trying to focus on 1 guy and take him down. This way, if i get killed, at least it's a draw and my group is left 4v4 and not 4v5. Once a point is taken, i run to another. Never use PvP pots, i try to use the map pots when they're not bugged. I prefer to save my glory to take purple gear and salvage it for AD. When i'm swarmed and i'm dying, i usually sprint disengage+unstoppable. Sometimes i can get away, sometimes not. My mount is a armored boar, so against zen mounts or faster mounts, i'm kinda weak. I just don't like the look of a huge orc on a small orse. So i will either save AD to buy zen to get a armored bear, or try and upgrade my boar to at least 80% speed bonus if, in the future, i happen to get reach with milions of AD.
I usually get in the first 3 places. A couple of times i got in the lower positions cause all the other players (both team mates and enemies) were real monsters (high GS sentinels, DCs, CWs, TRs). I get a fair amount of kills (8-10 kills and 4 deaths) and usually few deaths (0-4). I also try to circle the enemy (like going through alternative routes and jump on them from above, or sprint to the side of a group and then attack their back line CWs/DCs) and, if i can, i do not charge a full group frontally. Full sentinels and GFs are more fit for that style.
PvE: before the slam nerf, i used to run ahead, go into the middle of the group of mobs, activating slam+ unstoppable (bar filled very quickly), WMS spam. Trash cleared or almost cleared, my group arrived then i started with single target encounters on mini-bosses/ stronger mobs(on pugs usually mobs are scattered all around, can't really AoE). Could switch steely defense for destroyer in easier dungeons.
Now, i'm trying to figure out. Tried to switch to a AoE damage setup. Right now i'm trying this:
-Passives: destroyer and master at arms for crit bonus
- run to mob group. Activate Battle fury for buff damage
-Come and get it for more buff damage, using it in a position that makes the mob line up in front of me
-Use IBS cause it hits the whole row, doing usually a overall 20k+ damage when it crits on 4/5 mobs (2 mobs get 7-8k damage, and 2-3k the others).
-WMS spam to kill the ones still up.
It's not easy to set up, cause you really have to place yourself in a way that makes all mobs group in a 60
I'll start with mine.
Leveled a GWF as first char. Half orc. Started as a dex-str destroyer. Cleric as companion. Until level 60, i didn't find much problems finding groups for dungeons. Single player content was a pie (just got a hard time in the orc district PvE). I also practiced PvP a bit since the early levels.
Once i hit 60, i started to gear up.
I find the PvP set to be really good even if the bonus does not really work as the tooltip says. It gives power, crit and ArP, and a good defense. The 1600 hp 2 piece bonus is good, and the healing during unstoppable is good too. It's 1% every second during unstoppable. Considering i'm actually at 28k hp, it's a 1500 hp healing even with 60% determination filled.
As a destroyer, i got 24k hp and 28 AC, and i found it hard to survive in PvP. Switched to sentinel after patch. But not a full hp/regen/deflection sentinel. Most likely a hybrid. I have 5% heal on unstoppable from instigator, 10% damage increase from destroyer, and full sentinel feats. Now reached 28k hp, 3.2k power, 1.5k crit, 1.2k ArP, 600 life steal and other mixed stuff. All without enchants and with Sharpened Iceaxe as a weapon+ vigilant warlord sword knot. This is temporary, until i can get ancient castle weapon set and craft the enchants i need.
Roughly 2.2k defense, 34 AC. Also the basic 2 pieces for legs and torso are blue items with no slots, waiting to max the mailsmith profession and craft my own grade 3 epic pieces.
Plan on bringing life steal to 1k+ and add life drinker enchant to weapon.
Don't want to go full defensive with regen/deflect cause i don't want to use tenes, and a full defensive build is boring.
Want a mix of survivability and damage. Decided to go for crit rather than power.
I have 23 str, 19 con and 20 dex.
So this is my temporary setup. GS 9.5k without enchants.
For PvP:
I use IBS, crescendo, restoring strike and takedown. Pretty common.
Against CWs: i usually try to close the gap and takedown if we're in a brawl. In 1v1 i eat the damage, then rush to them. Wait for the to teleport when i reach them, and once they waste all the 3 teleports, i sprint on them again and start with my encounters. Some CWs do not teleport until they see the animation of takedown/ flourish starting, and they teleport behind you. In these cases, i start IBS (slower animation), they teleport, i sprint in the middle of IBS animation, cancelling it, and chase them. If i see they do not teleport, i do not cancel IBS. Pretty tricky, but else i would waste my encounters on these CWs. Once i get them and they can use only 1 teleport/ are on CD, it's easier to take them down.
Against DC: well ,if they're tanky and more geared than me, i can't take them down alone, usually. Same as CWs: try to takedown and attack to distrupt their defense with SOtS/crit/may be crescendo if it's up.
Against GWF: usually let them lead with takedown. If i unload my encounters first, i waste the restoring strike healing. If i use IBS and takedown, and wait to use restoring strike, i'm still not using my full potential. So i usually eat their first encounter wave, then takedown/IBS/restoring strike (if one of my encounters crit, my restoring strike will hit for more thanks to SOtS), then i go unstoppable and start with sure strike. It's a long fight, usually. Also, i usually have a hard time against full sentinel regen builds. probably the best PvP build. Sometimes can take down their defense with some crits, but until i reach my desired crit score, it's not that effective.
Against GF: if they are very good and geared, and can chain prone me to death with one rotation, i avoid them. Else, i just try to sprint avoid their charges and circle them if they have their shield up. Once i'm on their back, i start with takedown/IBS/RS. Key thing is to circle their block, and it's doable.
Against TRs: here is where i have the most problems. Really. If they are dumb and try to tank, with similar GS, they are dead or have to roll away. If they're even just a bit good, it becomes nasty. Most of the times they come from behind while i fight/ i'm low in health. And one shot me. Or they attack from stealth with ranged attacks. Here i really tried everything. Running around takes forever and your HP are drained quickly before you find them. When you find them, they roll away, then roll away, then roll away. Or go unstoppable. If i use come and get it, sacrificing, let's say, RS, when you suck them in they go ITC (invulnerability for 5 seconds), then they unload their damage on me.
Sometimes it works this way: from stealth they unleash their high damage encounters. HP go down to half or less. I go unstoppable to heal, since it's at full bar now and, if i wait, i waste it, then i try to catch them. They roll away and run around or go stealth again. Sometimes they go ITC right before they attack me, then roll away, run, roll dodge, run, roll dodge, and go stealth. Then they start to range attack from stealth. They seem to have everything: stealth, attack during stealth, ranged, high DPS, tank/ invulnerability skill. I've seen some TRs going ITC quite often. Also, they're immune when dodging, and can dodge as far as CWs teleport.
When they're really geared, you just get almost 1shotted, or 2shotted. No time to fight. Some can tank like a GF or GWF.
Looking for some good strategy to counter their stealth+ranged attack+high DPS+ invulnerability ITC+ roll dodge immunity. If i buy time, they soften me attacking from range while invisible. When i reach them, they go ITC. When ITC runs out, they dodge roll with immunity and run, then go stealth again and come back with their encounters up.
If i suck them in, they go ITC. How do you counter a rogue attacking from perma stealth if even when you get him, he can go invulnerable for 5 secs, then roll away 3 times being immune to everything?
May be the GWF is just the wrong match up for the TR class? Or is there some strategy i can't see, to at least be able to bring them on a equal ground?
General PvP strategy: I use steel grace and master at arms as passives, for cc resisntance and crit bonus. I tend to stay with my group. If they all go to first point after start, i go with them. Else, it's 1 guy to first point and 4 to centre. Sometimes 1 guy goes to the enemy base. I usually sprint towards CWs. If there's a good DC healing his team, i try to take him down or prevent him from healing, force him to move. Else, i try to takedown the TRs before they can one-shot someone. I tank as long as i can in the brawl, trying to focus on 1 guy and take him down. This way, if i get killed, at least it's a draw and my group is left 4v4 and not 4v5. Once a point is taken, i run to another. Never use PvP pots, i try to use the map pots when they're not bugged. I prefer to save my glory to take purple gear and salvage it for AD. When i'm swarmed and i'm dying, i usually sprint disengage+unstoppable. Sometimes i can get away, sometimes not. My mount is a armored boar, so against zen mounts or faster mounts, i'm kinda weak. I just don't like the look of a huge orc on a small orse. So i will either save AD to buy zen to get a armored bear, or try and upgrade my boar to at least 80% speed bonus if, in the future, i happen to get reach with milions of AD.
I usually get in the first 3 places. A couple of times i got in the lower positions cause all the other players (both team mates and enemies) were real monsters (high GS sentinels, DCs, CWs, TRs). I get a fair amount of kills (8-10 kills and 4 deaths) and usually few deaths (0-4). I also try to circle the enemy (like going through alternative routes and jump on them from above, or sprint to the side of a group and then attack their back line CWs/DCs) and, if i can, i do not charge a full group frontally. Full sentinels and GFs are more fit for that style.
PvE: before the slam nerf, i used to run ahead, go into the middle of the group of mobs, activating slam+ unstoppable (bar filled very quickly), WMS spam. Trash cleared or almost cleared, my group arrived then i started with single target encounters on mini-bosses/ stronger mobs(on pugs usually mobs are scattered all around, can't really AoE). Could switch steely defense for destroyer in easier dungeons.
Now, i'm trying to figure out. Tried to switch to a AoE damage setup. Right now i'm trying this:
-Passives: destroyer and master at arms for crit bonus
- run to mob group. Activate Battle fury for buff damage
-Come and get it for more buff damage, using it in a position that makes the mob line up in front of me
-Use IBS cause it hits the whole row, doing usually a overall 20k+ damage when it crits on 4/5 mobs (2 mobs get 7-8k damage, and 2-3k the others).
-WMS spam to kill the ones still up.
It's not easy to set up, cause you really have to place yourself in a way that makes all mobs group in a 60
Post edited by pando83 on
0
Comments
In the TRs PvP discussion i wrote "they go unstoppable". I meant "they go ITC".
A question: anyone knows how the IBS multiple damage works?
Yes it does. In PvE I use come and get it before IBS to bunch them together
Decent enchants for GWF (new 60)
Best enchants for GWF (After alot of grinding)
It debuffs the defense and adds a little to your damage. Plus it looks cool!
Why are you even trying.
And the chance to get one is 1 out of 20.
IBS hits targets in a 3' cylinder around your reticle. So, if you use Come and Get it to draw the mobs in so that they're stacked half on top of each other, yeah, you can easily get a bunch at once, especially if they're small monsters. I also drop IBS when a CW is using Arcane Singularity, either right before the mobs go up in the air or right after they come back down.
IMO, Come and Get It + Indomitable Battle Strike is really undervalued as a tactic. If, say, you'd normally hit one mob for 6k damage, and CaGI lets you hit two instead for 8.4k each, CaGI just dealt 10.8k extra damage for you -- and that number goes way up if you catch 3+ mobs under your IBS when you'd normally have hit just one. Against bigger enemies, hitting extra targets is less likely, but the trash mobs that GWF players are expected to sweep up tend to be smaller. Even if you don't get an extra target, the 40% damage is a halfway decent consolation prize. Plus, the pull that comes with the effect is occasionally useful for drawing mid-range enemies into range so you can follow up with WMS without having to move.