Gosh it's pathetic how truly terrible some people are when it comes to this game and they blame the game itself. If you don't like getting bulls by a GF learn to time your shift slide to immune it. Or save the slide and use your environment like the tiny pillar in the middle of the flag cap circle and LOS/kite the GF there. If you don't like getting one shot or hit hard by a TR learn to delay your slide based off how far the TR was from you when they stealthed. After you avoid that prepare to slide again quickly for the teleport attack alway follows. Don't like getting choked by a CW then cast a healing word or divine astral shield and let the hp tick cleanse the control off and easily out heal what they try and throw at you.
And most of all... stop complaining that you don't have an I win button and realize we are one of the most survivable and multifunctional classes in the game. Just because you suck doesn't mean you should soap box the forum and cry about it...learn2play.
That'd be great. Then I could finally silence all the ignorant people of the DC forum.
It'd also be nice if you could link me the site to download afterburner. You could PM it to me if that's not too much trouble.
have u made any guide or smth ? i might enjoy playing cleric if u can actually fight not just be a potion vendor.
i have seen like 1 cleric that could 1v1 fight me, and he might have won but ofc somebody had to come and ruin it(rest just take various time to kill), dont know his name or gear, ofc im just doing randoms but my gear aint that great either. now fighting vs 2 clerics is smth else, most painful(and longest) way to die in game, so a guide would be really nice, if i wont play cleric, then at least id have better opponents and more fun pvp
So, i've been playing the DC for quite a while now. I'm at 12.9 something GS, well i'm close to 13k.
So i've been reading people saying the DC is fine and all in PVP.
Heheh well nothing could be further from the truth. We are so utterly broken that i fail to see that cryptic will ever be able to fix the class to a workeable state.
I'm all rank 9/8 defense enchants, my Damage reduction is at 39,5, with AS and foresight this is alot higher ofcourse.
I've respecced more times than i care to even count. Short story all are broken, some are less so.
The obvious choices are feated foresight and healing step
Healing step is the last thing I read before I realized this must be a joke and stopped reading. Very funny, good bye.
Oh yeah, we need to L2P. Have you been following any of my posts? I probably know more about the the DC class than the devs at this point.
This happens in every single game, every single time. You have a couple people who want to feel like they're superior, and act like they are gods in PvP. But they never actually prove how good they are. They come online to post that everyone else needs to L2P. And it's those same people who will act like the class is fine, when it's clear to 99% of the players, both DC and otherwise, that the DC is underpowered compared to the other four classes. But keeping posting how amazing you are and how everyone else needs to L2P. Keep claiming you'll post video proof. We both know you won't, because your claims are not true.
have u made any guide or smth ? i might enjoy playing cleric if u can actually fight not just be a potion vendor.
i have seen like 1 cleric that could 1v1 fight me, and he might have won but ofc somebody had to come and ruin it(rest just take various time to kill), dont know his name or gear, ofc im just doing randoms but my gear aint that great either. now fighting vs 2 clerics is smth else, most painful(and longest) way to die in game, so a guide would be really nice, if i wont play cleric, then at least id have better opponents and more fun pvp
I haven't made one yet. I've been doing a lot of recording lately but so far I've got nothing that shows the DCs true abilities in pvp.
Oh yeah, we need to L2P. Have you been following any of my posts? I probably know more about the the DC class than the devs at this point.
This happens in every single game, every single time. You have a couple people who want to feel like they're superior, and act like they are gods in PvP. But they never actually prove how good they are. They come online to post that everyone else needs to L2P. And it's those same people who will act like the class is fine, when it's clear to 99% of the players, both DC and otherwise, that the DC is underpowered compared to the other four classes. But keeping posting how amazing you are and how everyone else needs to L2P. Keep claiming you'll post video proof. We both know you won't, because your claims are not true.
He might post his video proof. You shouldn't say it. :rolleyes: Hehe..
It is not important whether his claims are true or not. Without seeing the statistical data, arguing about the balance is nothing, but gossiping. There will be always good players even though conditions are terrible. There will be always terrible players even though conditions are good.
Please, don't worry. In statistics, his data will be excluded because he is too good for the data. the smart usually don't think they are smart. They are just normal, and the others who are not like them are just stupid.
Gathering and analyzing the data is the developer's job, but not ours. We just play. I hope they regularly check and analyze the data. However, the game is just released and I see a log of bugs and the needs for improvement. I think we need to wait for balancing.
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glanngalladMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited September 2013
Yeah....I played a DC. Horrible class in this game; worst ever.
But we can measure things like our maximum burst damage, effective healing, CC availability, defenses, etc. and come up with some kind of picture of relative "balance" by comparing those figures to other classes. This is mostly for PvP. In PvE you can look compare in a more direct way by comparing combat log parses. I actually think for mature games (like WoW), those combat log parses are on part with the developer's own testing.
But we can measure things like our maximum burst damage, effective healing, CC availability, defenses, etc. and come up with some kind of picture of relative "balance" by comparing those figures to other classes. This is mostly for PvP. In PvE you can look compare in a more direct way by comparing combat log parses. I actually think for mature games (like WoW), those combat log parses are on part with the developer's own testing.
Those figures pale in comparison to the utility derived from skills/feats, if you don't take that utility into account then your numbers will be way off.
Of course cleric is going to do less damage and have less survivability available on gear b/c they can slot HEALS on their bar when no other class can. They can have free 11% DR, heal when attacked, heal when critting, temp HP when crit, 100% stamina regen for double the dodging of CC, Huge DR and constant healing in AS, instant massive temp HP + DR (divine armor), free temp HP below 30%, and more depending on what other abilities you slot. There is a lot more than raw stats that goes into balance.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
ripcity313Banned Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Yeah....I played a DC. Horrible class in this game; worst ever.
your just bad.
with the right encounter skils slotted/passives/feats/stats the DC right now RULES pvp, you just have to not be an idiot
my dc is like 9.5/10 on the unkillable scale
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x0rdaMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited September 2013
A note on dodge, are you guys aware of how many skills actually hinder/break dodge?
TR's got a bunch and one of wich is ranged, and one stationary.
GWF's more or less all of them hinder dodge with one semi ranged.
GF's lol, football time. Just beyond stupid.
CW's most of the good ones hinder dodge, freeze/ icy rays, choke.
Against a good opponent i'm happy to get off any spell at all. Add to the fact that YOU WILL GET FOCUSED. I'm somtimes stumped i survive at all. But sure, i feel like a GOD sometimes also when u step up to a team in greens/blues that dont know how to use their encounters.
Again, short story, ALL other classes scale ALOT better with gear than we do, if i were to redo it again. I would not spend the most time grinding out the BiS gear for a DC. There are alot better options out there that will net u a better class in return.
And once again, the thing that pisses me off most is the fact that noone from cryptic has even aknowledged that they think something is wrong with the DC class. AFAIK they are super duper happy as it is. Just some feedback would be welcome.
A note on dodge, are you guys aware of how many skills actually hinder/break dodge?
TR's got a bunch and one of wich is ranged, and one stationary.
GWF's more or less all of them hinder dodge with one semi ranged.
GF's lol, football time. Just beyond stupid.
CW's most of the good ones hinder dodge, freeze/ icy rays, choke.
Against a good opponent i'm happy to get off any spell at all. Add to the fact that YOU WILL GET FOCUSED. I'm somtimes stumped i survive at all. But sure, i feel like a GOD sometimes also when u step up to a team in greens/blues that dont know how to use their encounters.
Again, short story, ALL other classes scale ALOT better with gear than we do, if i were to redo it again. I would not spend the most time grinding out the BiS gear for a DC. There are alot better options out there that will net u a better class in return.
And once again, the thing that pisses me off most is the fact that noone from cryptic has even aknowledged that they think something is wrong with the DC class. AFAIK they are super duper happy as it is. Just some feedback would be welcome.
Rant out
As long as you dodge at the same time or before the impact shot you fully dodge it taking no damage and being immune to the stun. smoke bomb is laughably easy to dodge, you can wait until it's completely on the ground and still dodge out before the daze takes effect. Shadow strike is a little harder since they usually throw it in stealth and it doesn't make much of a sound until it hits you, but it's certainly dodgeable. Flourish is most definitely dodgeable, you just have to time it right, and knockdown is like the easiest skill in the game to dodge =P. GF's are very simple to dodge when you have some experience playing against them, they are extremely predictable. CW's ice knife is probably the easiest skill in the game to dodge as you can hear the distinct daily sound a full second or more before the knife comes down. Icy rays is really the only skill listed that you can't dodge, and you can fully dodge the damage just not the root afterwards.
It sounds like your biggest problem is PvP inexperience as I find all of those very easily dodged as a DC.
Edit: Oh and Shocking Execution is nearly undodgeable but TR's have the slowest daily generation of any class so it's not that big a deal.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
x0rdaMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Kinda interesting read on how "effective" the DC is in PvP.
Anyway we can agree that we disagree. You think DC's are fine and on par with other classes and i dont think that we are on par with other classes .
And of course being able to dodge anything is less useful when you only get 2 dodges at a time and are the sole focus of everyone on the other team.
"I dodge the ice knife woo! I dodge the GF paintrain woo! I...um..oh." *gets kerbstomped by everything*
Also there's this:
Of course cleric is going to do less damage and have less survivability available on gear b/c they can slot HEALS on their bar when no other class can.
A lot of the other classes have substantial self-heal capacity (it's practically the GWFs core mechanic, a GF using fighter's recovery practically never needs to pot) and everyone can stack lifesteal -which is actually pretty decent if you're a class that does damage. Some classes can even heal others (GFs ITF, for instance). Healing is by no means a DC-restricted facility, it's just that we have more options than others. And a self-heal debuff, ofc.
Have you ever considered using our (nice) control spells? Like chain of blazing light, just to give you enough time to cast daunting light, hope for a crit and damage your foe for 12-15k or more? Have you ever considered using a vorpal? Have you ever considered dropping the overhyped soulforge for a thunderhead?
You actually need lagg free conection ( hence live in USA) to pull chains of blazing light/daunting light combo succesfully. The stun effect last less then a second. A DPS cleric, no scratch that any cleric is only as good as their team. The regen build while is good, i saw some decent DCs with it, will shatter under good CW and if wizard is undergeared and cant brust down, a TR/CW combo will fix that fast.
Healing step tends to bump the dodge count up a fair bit - cause when aren't you getting crit regularly in pvp? Of course - it's feat based and deep in righteous territory so if that's not your bag then yes - 2 dodges and time to feel the pain. Healing step is a must have for me if I'm stepping into the arena.
Leaving out the capstone (which I don't have) - I think the righteous tree offers a lot to DCs that like to pvp. Virtuous is obviously better if you plan on being a glass cannon that does not get hit, and effectively being a different type of CW (buff to daunting light is sweet). Some people like heavy faithful for maximum heal based survivability, moontouched and all that - but I tried that and was not convinced. With righteous rage of tempus, ethereal boon, power of oppression and healing step in righteous, deepstone blessing & benefit of foresight in faithful, and a token point in bountiful fortune (along with the usual one build to rule them all selection of heroic feats), feels like a lot of mitigation, debuff, mobility & healing synergy stuff going on (assuming the tooltips aren't *all* lying to me). And dungeon healing seems to still work fine.
All that said - I will agree that DC feels just a little sub-par compared to the other classes, aside from the party assistance function. Sure I can manage to solo anything but a sentinel off a point often enough to not be completely embarrassed - but god it takes some fancy footwork, mad divinity tabbing, luck, and a geological age to accomplish. More often than not I'm joined by another opponent and either make a glorious last stand, run away bravely with my many dodges, or tough it out and hope for backup that can actually kill something. And it also requires a specific gear & *ability* setup (albeit a cheap one). And I'm sure it results in a loss of some utility in dungeons. I have all the other classes, and I never felt they were as locked in to a particular requirement set to be pvp certified. It's also peeveworthy to be that player who while being pounded on keeps everyone else alive, is on the winning team, and gets lowest score. But it's still my favourite character
Comments
And most of all... stop complaining that you don't have an I win button and realize we are one of the most survivable and multifunctional classes in the game. Just because you suck doesn't mean you should soap box the forum and cry about it...learn2play.
have u made any guide or smth ? i might enjoy playing cleric if u can actually fight not just be a potion vendor.
i have seen like 1 cleric that could 1v1 fight me, and he might have won but ofc somebody had to come and ruin it(rest just take various time to kill), dont know his name or gear, ofc im just doing randoms but my gear aint that great either. now fighting vs 2 clerics is smth else, most painful(and longest) way to die in game, so a guide would be really nice, if i wont play cleric, then at least id have better opponents and more fun pvp
Healing step is the last thing I read before I realized this must be a joke and stopped reading. Very funny, good bye.
This happens in every single game, every single time. You have a couple people who want to feel like they're superior, and act like they are gods in PvP. But they never actually prove how good they are. They come online to post that everyone else needs to L2P. And it's those same people who will act like the class is fine, when it's clear to 99% of the players, both DC and otherwise, that the DC is underpowered compared to the other four classes. But keeping posting how amazing you are and how everyone else needs to L2P. Keep claiming you'll post video proof. We both know you won't, because your claims are not true.
I haven't made one yet. I've been doing a lot of recording lately but so far I've got nothing that shows the DCs true abilities in pvp.
Either you're trolling or you really have no idea how the feat works.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
He might post his video proof. You shouldn't say it. :rolleyes: Hehe..
It is not important whether his claims are true or not. Without seeing the statistical data, arguing about the balance is nothing, but gossiping. There will be always good players even though conditions are terrible. There will be always terrible players even though conditions are good.
Please, don't worry. In statistics, his data will be excluded because he is too good for the data. the smart usually don't think they are smart. They are just normal, and the others who are not like them are just stupid.
Gathering and analyzing the data is the developer's job, but not ours. We just play. I hope they regularly check and analyze the data. However, the game is just released and I see a log of bugs and the needs for improvement. I think we need to wait for balancing.
Those figures pale in comparison to the utility derived from skills/feats, if you don't take that utility into account then your numbers will be way off.
Of course cleric is going to do less damage and have less survivability available on gear b/c they can slot HEALS on their bar when no other class can. They can have free 11% DR, heal when attacked, heal when critting, temp HP when crit, 100% stamina regen for double the dodging of CC, Huge DR and constant healing in AS, instant massive temp HP + DR (divine armor), free temp HP below 30%, and more depending on what other abilities you slot. There is a lot more than raw stats that goes into balance.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
your just bad.
with the right encounter skils slotted/passives/feats/stats the DC right now RULES pvp, you just have to not be an idiot
my dc is like 9.5/10 on the unkillable scale
TR's got a bunch and one of wich is ranged, and one stationary.
GWF's more or less all of them hinder dodge with one semi ranged.
GF's lol, football time. Just beyond stupid.
CW's most of the good ones hinder dodge, freeze/ icy rays, choke.
Against a good opponent i'm happy to get off any spell at all. Add to the fact that YOU WILL GET FOCUSED. I'm somtimes stumped i survive at all. But sure, i feel like a GOD sometimes also when u step up to a team in greens/blues that dont know how to use their encounters.
Again, short story, ALL other classes scale ALOT better with gear than we do, if i were to redo it again. I would not spend the most time grinding out the BiS gear for a DC. There are alot better options out there that will net u a better class in return.
And once again, the thing that pisses me off most is the fact that noone from cryptic has even aknowledged that they think something is wrong with the DC class. AFAIK they are super duper happy as it is. Just some feedback would be welcome.
Rant out
As long as you dodge at the same time or before the impact shot you fully dodge it taking no damage and being immune to the stun. smoke bomb is laughably easy to dodge, you can wait until it's completely on the ground and still dodge out before the daze takes effect. Shadow strike is a little harder since they usually throw it in stealth and it doesn't make much of a sound until it hits you, but it's certainly dodgeable. Flourish is most definitely dodgeable, you just have to time it right, and knockdown is like the easiest skill in the game to dodge =P. GF's are very simple to dodge when you have some experience playing against them, they are extremely predictable. CW's ice knife is probably the easiest skill in the game to dodge as you can hear the distinct daily sound a full second or more before the knife comes down. Icy rays is really the only skill listed that you can't dodge, and you can fully dodge the damage just not the root afterwards.
It sounds like your biggest problem is PvP inexperience as I find all of those very easily dodged as a DC.
Edit: Oh and Shocking Execution is nearly undodgeable but TR's have the slowest daily generation of any class so it's not that big a deal.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?491441-DC-sucks-%28only-PVP-%29
Kinda interesting read on how "effective" the DC is in PvP.
Anyway we can agree that we disagree. You think DC's are fine and on par with other classes and i dont think that we are on par with other classes
"I dodge the ice knife woo! I dodge the GF paintrain woo! I...um..oh." *gets kerbstomped by everything*
Also there's this:
A lot of the other classes have substantial self-heal capacity (it's practically the GWFs core mechanic, a GF using fighter's recovery practically never needs to pot) and everyone can stack lifesteal -which is actually pretty decent if you're a class that does damage. Some classes can even heal others (GFs ITF, for instance). Healing is by no means a DC-restricted facility, it's just that we have more options than others. And a self-heal debuff, ofc.
You actually need lagg free conection ( hence live in USA) to pull chains of blazing light/daunting light combo succesfully. The stun effect last less then a second. A DPS cleric, no scratch that any cleric is only as good as their team. The regen build while is good, i saw some decent DCs with it, will shatter under good CW and if wizard is undergeared and cant brust down, a TR/CW combo will fix that fast.
Leaving out the capstone (which I don't have) - I think the righteous tree offers a lot to DCs that like to pvp. Virtuous is obviously better if you plan on being a glass cannon that does not get hit, and effectively being a different type of CW (buff to daunting light is sweet). Some people like heavy faithful for maximum heal based survivability, moontouched and all that - but I tried that and was not convinced. With righteous rage of tempus, ethereal boon, power of oppression and healing step in righteous, deepstone blessing & benefit of foresight in faithful, and a token point in bountiful fortune (along with the usual one build to rule them all selection of heroic feats), feels like a lot of mitigation, debuff, mobility & healing synergy stuff going on (assuming the tooltips aren't *all* lying to me). And dungeon healing seems to still work fine.
All that said - I will agree that DC feels just a little sub-par compared to the other classes, aside from the party assistance function. Sure I can manage to solo anything but a sentinel off a point often enough to not be completely embarrassed - but god it takes some fancy footwork, mad divinity tabbing, luck, and a geological age to accomplish. More often than not I'm joined by another opponent and either make a glorious last stand, run away bravely with my many dodges, or tough it out and hope for backup that can actually kill something. And it also requires a specific gear & *ability* setup (albeit a cheap one). And I'm sure it results in a loss of some utility in dungeons. I have all the other classes, and I never felt they were as locked in to a particular requirement set to be pvp certified. It's also peeveworthy to be that player who while being pounded on keeps everyone else alive, is on the winning team, and gets lowest score. But it's still my favourite character