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GWF Sentinel (PVE) - Appreciate response from community manager/dev.
djmacken
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 62 Arc User
I have always loved hybrid classes in MMO's, particularly tank/dps hybrids.
The Sentinel tree (based on its description and feats) seems like the off-tank spec that should be designed to generate and hold threat as well as absorb a bit of damage. Right now the absorb part seems pretty good, but the threat mechanic (to me anyway) seems completely and utterly broken, worthless?
I have played many, many MMOs for years and have never seen a "tank" class with such broken threat mechanics as this? Let's say a GWF spec'd as Sentinel has 5,000 power. That means CAGI and DS to 500 dmg with 1000 dmg as threat. That seems EXTREMELY small when you consider that even clerics weaker AOE skills such as sunburst can crit for several thousand.
I would appreciate some explanation from the developers or community managers if they feel that the Sentinel line is where they intend it to be? And if so, please, please provide some sort of a guide on how one might generate enough threat to actually tank? As an experienced MMO player I would find it very hard to believe that this class is even remotely accessible to newer players. This would explain why it gets such a terrible name in PvE because frankly it is frustratingly difficult to play it effectively.
The Sentinel tree (based on its description and feats) seems like the off-tank spec that should be designed to generate and hold threat as well as absorb a bit of damage. Right now the absorb part seems pretty good, but the threat mechanic (to me anyway) seems completely and utterly broken, worthless?
I have played many, many MMOs for years and have never seen a "tank" class with such broken threat mechanics as this? Let's say a GWF spec'd as Sentinel has 5,000 power. That means CAGI and DS to 500 dmg with 1000 dmg as threat. That seems EXTREMELY small when you consider that even clerics weaker AOE skills such as sunburst can crit for several thousand.
I would appreciate some explanation from the developers or community managers if they feel that the Sentinel line is where they intend it to be? And if so, please, please provide some sort of a guide on how one might generate enough threat to actually tank? As an experienced MMO player I would find it very hard to believe that this class is even remotely accessible to newer players. This would explain why it gets such a terrible name in PvE because frankly it is frustratingly difficult to play it effectively.
Post edited by djmacken on
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Either they do not know themselves, or its just a matter of communication.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I also have a Sent GWF, and I simply don't do PvE (other than FH) cause I can't hold agro to save my life lol. In FH though you just need to kite mobs on 2nd and last boss, we're great there
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
In response to the weapon enchantments helping with threat. I feel that using a weapon enchantment shouldn't be required to accomplish what should be a core class mechanic, in this case obtaining and keep threat. It seems silly that one would need to spend millions of AD on a perfect lightning or bronzewood enchantment just to do that.
The threat feats that I see in Sentinel line are:
Powerful Challenge - Increased DPS against marked mobs)
Grudge Style - Increase DPS and threat gain on single mob.
Intimidation & Defiance - AOE Threat abilities enhancing Come and Get It, Daring Shout, Spinning Strike and Slam (by nature Slam has 100% increased threat from damage)
Looking at Kolatmaster's spec I only see Powerful Challenge and Grudge Style which leaves out the AOE threat feats, which I believe the reasoning is that they don't help. That is where I assume the perfect lightning and bronzewood enchantment pick up the slack for.
My last question/comments are specific to bronzewood and marks in general.
1. Do marks generate any threat on their own? Based on my reading it doesn't appear to be the case. And the mark only provides some benefit based on the skill that generated it. (Daring Shout, IBS, Bronzewood)
2. Has it ever been confirmed that the bronzewood mark works with Powerful Challenge feat? Also from what I have read that doesn't appear to be the case.
3. I am trying to understand how the bronzewood increases threat gain? Is it simply by damage dealt due to reduced mitigation? Or does the mark from bronzewood offer some inherent threat?
I know enchantments play a big part, but it seems an increase of percentages in the skills that generate threat should do the trick, it seems that GF can do damage and hold threat while GWF can do neither, unless geared out to the max.
The GWF should have A few specs, High threat, AOECC, or single target DPS with lower threat than full threat build.
My sentinel GWF can pull stuff off the cleric but it takes awhile, longer than it should.
Currently rocking Perfect Bronzewood honestly, and I like it more for the tanking build. Threat is the one thing I wish they would redo/clarify... I can hold it, but a solid DPS spec can pull it off me, unless I am able to initiate, though it works fairly well on bosses thus far.
Exactly!
No problem at all bud, I'm looking to update it in the coming days also.
I'd love for that to be the truth, but the Enchantments help a great deal (though far from perfectly...lol).
I don't believe the help enough honestly. I use great Weapon Focus as I believe the extra 10% on At-Wills is just better overall for the threat and maintaining some form of DPS! lol The Enchantments do help that a great deal, and the Threat Generation on Encounters just isn't enough oomph for it's buck currently IMO.
1. I believe, Marks do, help threat. Hence how GFs can mar a target w/o damage and it attacks them. Just depends on how powerful the Mark is. However I don't have hard data to back that up, just experience.
2. From what I've seen it does, then again not hard data... And could be confusing it with flat increase of damage since my ArmPen is maxed, however I believe it does. Hopefully not wishful thinking on my part! lol
3. I believe it's Threat and Marking IMO.
Be this an encounter, or attaching to our unstoppable, or whatnot. But a simple and definitive mechanic which makes us the definitive preferred class for aggro management.
But as I pointed in other threads, we may simply be the first split class that steps in other classes roles. Where will the unique feature and required party effect that Warlock or Ranger or Warlord will one day receive?
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Marking doesnt do any threat, well minimal. nor does the damage you do to it.
Guardians have a class feature that increases threat by 100% when striking a marked target as well as generating threat constantly when marking a target.
GWF do not have this, or anything near it.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
We will have to wait and find out honestly..
A little bit is better then nothing IMO!
Lucky bastiges! lol
Gotta work with what we have!
Honestly, I think the best Threat generating feat is Intimidation. I tend to use Come and get it ( Control, excellent for IBS) and Daring Shout all the time. Grudge style slows your AOE dmg when you could have picked Great Weapon Focus or disciple of war... so if you were to get only 1 feat, it would be that one.
Otherwise I'd probably take Student of Sword, Powerful Challenge, Scaled Agility (Not even going for any threat feats.. just survivability/dmg)
Yeah. The 5 target caps kills it. It doesn't make any sense at all.