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Chains can crit; ArmorPen and Repurpose Soul broken. Help me test?

whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited October 2013 in The Temple
So with the last patch I noticed while I was doing testing that Chains of Blazing Light can now crit. This is great! It wasn't in the patch notes, but I did submit a bug report about it in-game and on the forums a few weeks ago.

However, my testing reveals more bugs with not only Chains, but most of our powers, and actually a bug with Repurpose Soul that I do not recall seeing before.

1) Chains, Flamestrike, and Daunting Light do not proc Repurpose Soul. DoT abilities only proc on initial damage.

Flamestrike didn't work before, so I am including it even though it's currently broken and doesn't crit. (Though this is going to be fixed according to the devs.)

The DoT issue has been common knowledge, but I figured I'd include it here to be thorough.

2) The follow powers gain NO benefit from Armor Penetration:
Flamestrike
Divine Glow
Divine Searing Light (normal Searing Light is fine)
Daunting Light
Chains
Prophecy of Doom
Forgemaster's Flame DoT (initial damage is fine)
Break the Spirit DoT (initial damage is fine)
Brand of the Sun DoT (initial damage is fine)

Yikes I don't know what else to say here.

3) Repurpose Soul is unaffected by Damage Resistance. It does not benefit from Armor Penetration or Defense debuffs.

I have been pushing the idea that ArmorPen is okay on our new sets because it means more healing from Repupose Soul. Boy was I shocked to discover that it doesn't work like this at all. The healing amounts of Repurpose Soul are determined only by the BASE damage rolled, not the TOTAL damage after calculating the target's resistance. (Note: Buffs giving +% damage are considered part of the "base" damage, so Divine Divine Glow on you, Terrifying Insight, Cycle of Change, and Disciple of Divine Lore still help improve Repurpose Soul's healing amounts.)

This is a huge blow to our healing capacity since most of our damage capacity is built around debuffing the target's Damage Resistance. This also means that on high defense targets, Repurpose Soul heals are slightly bigger than they should be, but I don't think this is as often the case. The highest Damage Resistance values for bosses is close to 25%, but we can put up to -70% of on the target with debuffs.

In Summary, for hybrid/DPS/Support/debuff builds that do not focus on pure healing, this is a major handicap. I have ran ACT on several encounters, and Repurpose Soul makes up a good portion of my healing, but less than I expected. If these bugs were fixed, I would expect to see double the amounts I saw before.

4) Seems that Divine Chains doesn't show the graphic on targets that are rooted. I think before they had blue chains holding them. Now there's nothing. Minor bug, but I'll add it here because I saw it just now when testing.

If someone else can confirm or add to my findings, I can submit a bug report and link to this thread.
Post edited by whistlingdixie on

Comments

  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    How and on what did you test whether Powers benefit from Armor Penetration?
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    How and on what did you test whether Powers benefit from Armor Penetration?

    You can't use the dummies since they have 0% damage resistance. I like to go to Hotenow zone for testing, since you can also test healing with minimal risk by standing in the lava. And the mobs are just a bit lower than you so you don't one-shot them, but also don't have to worry too much about being killed. You can also run from the miners indefinitely while skills recharge (unless some good samaritan decides to "help" you with them.)

    Specifically, I tested on the Ashen Miners and Flamespikers. If I recall, the Miners have 16% damage resistance and the Flamespikers have 16.2%.

    So looking at the combat log like this:
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Chains of Blazing Light deals 4332 (5169) Radiant to Flamespiker.

    You can figure out the damage resistance by doing: 1 - (4332/5196)

    You did 4332 damage, but your actual base damage was 5169. So a reduction of 16.2%.

    [Combat (Self)] Your Searing Light deals 1769 (2111) Radiant to Flamespiker.
    1 - (1769/2111) = 16.2% (this was Divine Searing Light, btw.)

    [Combat (Self)] Your Lance of Faith deals 784 (806) Radiant to Flamespiker.

    1 - (784/806) = 2.73% damage resistance. Big difference! Mousing over my Armor Penetration of 1321, I can it should modify Damage Resistance by -13.4%. So if I figure 16.2% - 13.4% = 2.8%. About the number I get from Lance of Faith, if we account for rounding errors.

    For Repurpose Soul, divide the heal amount by the base damage (in parenthesis). It should be 15% everytime. The actual damage doesn't seem to matter.
  • socrateazesocrateaze Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I have tested this as well (though only with daunting light) and according to the combat log, armor penetration is doing nothing for that skill.

    I tested in Mt. Hotenow and in Icespire Peak by using 2 armors sets; one with no neck, waist or rings, and then with only armor penetration on those slots. Comparing astral seal in in the low-armor pen and high-armor pen scenarios showed a distinct change in targets' mitigation (in IP, from 12.8% to about 5%). Using this same strategy, daunting light showed no change in the targets resistance (stayed at 12.8%). This was all done on the same mob type to ensure validity.

    This is pretty crippling for our damage, and I hope it is addressed soon.
  • abell39abell39 Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Definitely post a bug report on this with all the details you guys have here. I don't know if the devs are aware of most of this yet.
    Kerensa Loreweaver, level 60 DC | Rilla Turtledove, level 60 CW | Calvin Meriwether, level 60 TR
    Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
  • socrateazesocrateaze Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Further, I tested this on the preview shard, and armor penetration does not affect daunting light there either.
  • kidbskidbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 294
    edited September 2013
    Wow, I had no idea that all of my armor pen was doing nothing for my dot spec. That is totally ridiculous.
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Uh, I thought I replied to this earlier, but I guess I forgot. Or maybe it got removed for some reason? o.o

    Anyway, I posted in the bugs forum.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Ok collected some Data, please not that I have a lesser vorpal in my weapon so take that in account for my critical hits.

    HoF non-crit all 3 hits:
    1. 4255 (2800)
    2. 4764 (2948)
    3. 5752 (4403)

    DL (crit)
    16050 (16124)
    17884 (14765)
    16070 (15393)
    20723 (15544)

    DG non-crit
    2757 (1958)

    SB (crit)
    4724 (3668)

    Bots (non-crit)

    1 cast 3 ticks ran:
    934 (616)
    924 (616)
    805 (616)

    1 cast 1 tick ran:
    773 (697)

    BotS (crit) - crit only applies to the first hit it seems
    1221 (1163)
    730 (697)
    781 (697)

    Lance of Faith (crit) 1 hit:
    1934 (1957)

    lance of faith (non-crit) 2 hits:
    1311 (1110)
    1343 (1085)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • spani4rdspani4rd Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 297 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Well this is a pretty serious issue, seeing as how the new Sharandar set is...and pretty much goes to show that currently we get almost no benefit from APEN, even for a lot of the dmg spells, and it doesn't affect DOTs like wtf?
    I also find the fact that something like repurpose soul being unafected by by debuffs or Apen etc to be completely idiotic. Honestly I don't have a problem with the DC class not being super great at anything but being able to provide a bit here, a bit there, fill the gaps and provide what's needed. That's fine be me although I know a lot of people want their class to be good at one specific task. That being said we have so little synergy between our skills, power, feats etc that it's incredibly frustrating and seems to be getting worse :(
  • paktokpaktok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Indeed......
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I was talking to some friends about this, in particular one who plays a CW. He was asking me about the combat log numbers, and from what he was giving me, it looks like some of their powers don't benefit from ArmorPen either. This could be a much bigger issue than I thought.
  • abell39abell39 Member Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    ...What if ArPen only works for melee encounter powers? What's the common thread in the powers that it doesn't work on?
    Kerensa Loreweaver, level 60 DC | Rilla Turtledove, level 60 CW | Calvin Meriwether, level 60 TR
    Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    abell39 wrote: »
    ...What if ArPen only works for melee encounter powers? What's the common thread in the powers that it doesn't work on?

    There doesn't seem to be one. If you look at my other thread, you can see it's pretty hit-or-miss for us. I can't really comment on the other classes since I haven't tried it myself. It can be a little trick if you don't know the DR of the mob and what other things are affect it besides ArmorPen.
  • brush4toiletbrush4toilet Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    so, has it been reported?
  • misssmooziemisssmoozie Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 204 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    so, has it been reported?
    Both me and whistlingdixie has sent the report in game as far as I know, but, who knows what happens with the bugreport after that..
    Wizard.jpg
  • rnewton8rnewton8 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 131 Bounty Hunter
    edited September 2013
    Serioulsy Crpytic--- I see why you gave us a new set with Armour pen...Great option for ppl. getting bored with pure healing spec and want to try more of a hybrid build. But if none of our skills benefit from Armour pen, then why have it on our set. This should be fixed asap.
  • whistlingdixiewhistlingdixie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It might be more helpful to check the preview server and see if the issue is still present there, and report the bug there and on the preview bug forums. I have a feeling they get more attention, but I'm not really sure.
  • fusionawesomefusionawesome Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Can a developer respond if the lack of armor penetration on these powers is working as intended or not. And if not its on there to do list. I already have 500 armpen on my DC and wanted to stack more but if this is not considered a bug i might change my setup.
  • xmeanseason305xxmeanseason305x Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 109 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    This is a known issue... It is in another thread... And as of today has only been slightly mentioned through 1 response by a dev... But... Nonetheless no updated info on a upcoming "fix" ... Instead we get more info on zen store sales and more money grabs.... Typical though.
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