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Top 5 useless skill for 100% PVE rogue?
valeriob80
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 155 Bounty Hunter
I read many TR builds before posting this but since the patch changed many things, and since in this game is far easier to list the skills to avoid than the skills to get (cause you can have almost all of them), I thought to ask here:
Which are, in your opinion, the top 5 useless/not to get skill for Trickster Rogue class?
In builds i read the most unwanted was (not in this order):
- Bloodbath (low dps)
- Sneak Attack (there are far better ones at higher levels)
- Path Of The Blade (low dps)
- Gloaming Cut (too slow)
- Courage Breaker (not very useful, there are far better dailies)
I'd like to know wich ones are the worst in your opinion, so I can skip them in my (100% PVE) build :-)
P.S.: It's not a thread where to complain about nerf ;-)
Which are, in your opinion, the top 5 useless/not to get skill for Trickster Rogue class?
In builds i read the most unwanted was (not in this order):
- Bloodbath (low dps)
- Sneak Attack (there are far better ones at higher levels)
- Path Of The Blade (low dps)
- Gloaming Cut (too slow)
- Courage Breaker (not very useful, there are far better dailies)
I'd like to know wich ones are the worst in your opinion, so I can skip them in my (100% PVE) build :-)
P.S.: It's not a thread where to complain about nerf ;-)
Post edited by valeriob80 on
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Sneak attack... yes, its probably only useful when leveling up. Some skills are like that, and only useful before you get the higher level replacement. That is OK -- you have to have *something* when you are lower level.
Path of the blade is indeed useless. Even I can't find a use for a no damage skill that does nothing else.
Gloaming cut: can be quite potent in a stealthy build. It can one-shot trash as it hits hard, and you get a lot of stealth back when you do that. Working in stealth from weakest to strongest mob, you can use it as part of a perma-stealth build.
Courage Breaker .... weak skill.
PVE, smoke seems weak to me. first strike is lame. Infiltrators action is weak. Whirlwind of blades seems weak to me as well.
How you play and how you build will make some strategies and skills more or less useful. If you are not perma stealth built, for example, gloaming cut is indeed pretty useless. If you are soloing, some of the boss killer skills are not as useful (shocking execution for example, is of marginal use in solo content, only really end of dungeon bosslets an even those, lurker's is still probably better).
- 3 x Impact Shot: one rank only is more than enough for PvE since you'll use it in rare occasions where a small push can be handy.
- 3 x Deft Strike: same as above, 3 ranks are really not that much of a help. Damage wise is not that great anyway.
- 3 x Shadow Strike: again, negligible damage, yet very useful for boss murdering w/ executioner build so 3 ranks may not be a real waste. You'll spam this a lot.
- Bloodbath: no use at all but you must have at least one rank in it since it's a tutorial skill.
- Courage Breaker: never seen/used it but it may be usefull if it worked on Valindra's strangulate.
Sneak attack is easily at least the second best TR class feature.
The only 100% useless skill for PvE is Path of the Blades.Shocking Execution is garbage as well.
- path of blades: to low dmg
All the rest depends on your build and style! Executioner / saboteur / scoundrel, do you want pure dmg well then soms powers do not meet that. You want speed and stealth, then other powers are less useful...etc.... But hej most tr Play executioner, me as well, so yes soms powers may seem useless, but they aren't.
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I don't know what my build will be exactly, but I don't think perma stealth since I didn't invested in INT. Anyway if I understand well for you the less useful TS skills are (PVE speaking):
- Sneak Attack
- Path Of The Blades
- Courage Breaker
- Smoke Bomb
- First Strike
- Infiltrator Action
Am I right? :-)
Can't you use Cloud of Steel to pull and skip Impact shot?
Why do you think Sneak Attack is so useful in PVE? I can understand in PVP, but...
Ok, maybe I used wrong words, but what I intended is which skill you won't spend points in/won't have in your bar in PVE? Every skill can be useful in a certain situation, ok, but it's a fact there are some that are in the bar of 99% of the players 99% of the time and some that almost no one uses. I'd like to know what to take not :-)
Impact shot and shadow are two main abilities that i use for solo play AND often for grp play too. Dunno why you'd add those 2 as most useless TR skills. Smoke has its uses too, especially in grp situations. For me it'll be:
~Courage Breaker
~Path of the Blades
~Sneak Attack
~Infiltrator Action
~First Strike
I chose these because i believe that even though some may have uses given certain conditions, there are better talents to use. Since this isnt a 5 best skills thread, i wont get into that.
Lashing and dazing dmg ar the best. Dazing has a small aoe so when clustered it can hit like 60k spread over severel mobs
Black Lotus
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I didn't add Impact Shot and Shadow Strike, I think you're talking to Twinkje, anyway I'm not sure about Impact Shot: do you use it actively or just to pull? To pull isn't Cloud Of Steel Enough? I have not tried IS so I'm just arguing...
You agree with Noroblad anyway (except for Smoke Bomb), and I agree with you both. In this game you can have all skill ranks except 20 (meaning you miss 20 points to max all out) so I just miss a couple of other skills to skip and my build is done ^_^
A question: why everybody seem to like Duelist's Flurry? I tried it today and I feel it slow and clumsy compared to Sly Flourish.
EDIT: Ok, I read another topic, better dps with bleeding
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p5r:4xc6o:6rcv,1r03il4:60000:6u000:b55z1&h=1
- Feats: move 1 point from Improved Cunning Sneak to Action Advantage?
- Feats: move 3 points from Improved Cunning Ambusher to Toughness?
- Powers: remove Impact Shot for Gloaming Cut?
EDIT: Heroic Feats variant: http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p5r:4xc6o:6rcv,1ri0il4:60000:6u000:b55z1&h=1
UNTIL you reach the level that opens up the third point in your skills, your choices are very very limited and you will find that you MUST spend points into skills that you do not want or need or use. I think it lets you choose when you reset BUT you have to spend 5 to get to the next tier in the tree.... and with only 2 points allowed, well look -- the first row you get 3 skills, so you HAVE to put 2,2,1 (in some combination) to get 5 to move to the next row. There is no way around it.
Yes, my list looks like what I said.
Its not that sneak attack stinks, its that there are better choices. Its hard in pve to justify not using the AP gain feature (does anyone not use this one in pve??). That gives you a choice of 1 feature from about 5 .... and sneak only damages one mob one time.... it is sub par compared to the others.
Oddly, even with the consensus here that Path is terrible, I see people using it regularly.
When you (reset) respec, you're still forced to use it in accordance to the original method. ie: You will automatically have 1 point in - Cloud of Steel, Sly Flourish, Dazing Strike, Bloodbath, and Sneak Attack. You have option of Deft Strike and Lashing Blade available and must put 5 points into any of the aforementioned prior to unlocking Lurker's Assult and Whirlwind of Blades. Then 5 more points before Bait and Switch, first Strike, Tenacious Concealment. And the ast 5 points before you unlock Rank 3 of any power.
Basically, there's 12 powers, (5 you automatically have 1 point in already) and 15 points remaining before you are able to use Rank 3 of anything. So you will have at least 5 of the aforementioned powers in Rank 2 and several Rank 1 regardless of whether you ever use it or not.
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So what do you think about the builds I linked above? Would you change something? :-)
EDIT: I read that Disciple Of Stenght gives +2/4/6% TOTAL damage, not just STR bonus, so I'll have to modify my build and take it ;-)
What about this?
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p5r:4xc6o:6rcv,1x03ili:60000:6u000:b55z1&h=1
Again my doubts are:
FEATS
- drop Cunning Ambusher for Toughness? (how many times will you exit from stealth in a combat?)
- I like a lot Cunning Stalker (saboteur tree) but don't know what to remove for it :-/
SKILLS
- is Gloaming Cut useful? Should I remove something for it?
I would like to point out though that, personally speaking, I tend to play differently than most. And I'll probably get bashed for this but almost every TR I know doesn't use Path of Blades - which, I can understand why - however, I personally favor PoB. Yeah, it has low damage when you look at it, but it's DoT is quite well. Add Lurker's Assult + Path of Blades = quick group kills. I wouldn't use it in a dungeon or anything, but for solo play it's great.
Keep in mind those are set for Human
Aside from that, I think your feats are just fine.
And to throw in my top 5 most useless* TR powers... in no particular order...
Sneak Attack
Courage Breaker
Infiltrators Actions
Bloodbath
First Strike
*most useless; not to be confused with "completely useless"
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http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p5r:4xc6o:6rcv,1xi0ili:60000:6u000:b55z1&h=1
Again my doubts are:
FEATS
- drop Cunning Ambusher for Toughness? (how many times will you exit from stealth in a combat?)
- I like a lot Cunning Stalker (saboteur tree) but don't know what to remove for it :-/
SKILLS
- is Gloaming Cut useful? Should I remove something for it?
path of the blades is good to have as a trash collector since it doesnt take as much time from your actual dps skills as blitz does and more importantly doesnt toss you back 5 feet. not sure how many off the cliff deaths youve had from blitz and targeting dummy ive had lots. it also buffs your power. though i think it should buff defence or deflect considering its a bunch of blades poping up around you.
i hear they buffed gloamings dps a bit havent tried it.
corage breaker was probibly intended for a support rogue build (lol).
if it was an at will maybe ir if your leveling with a CW or DF and just
want to help them lock bosses down and dont care bout dps.(lol)
i never liked sly.
i love deft when teamed with a fast party cause it helps me catch up to the battle quickly. and lets me get into odd places im not supposed to be. but now that lurkers does similar it may be less needed'
Bloodbath is a good panic button yes but then 1 point it's ok right? Since that +20% damage doesn't make a big difference...
Path of the Blade doesn't give you power I think, it's Whirlwind of Blades that do it. Or am I wrong?
And the power one is from the Daily - Whirlwind of Blades - which again, personally, I like as a secondary daily or if I'm soloing, even main daily for farming.
Recently in the expansion areas, I've been using a lot more AoE's than I usually do to get the daily quests done and my 2 dailies are Bloodbath and Whirlwind of Blades. For Encounters I use (<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, mind just went blank... the one that refills your stealth bar... that's always my Encounter 1...) and Path of Blades and Blitz. I mix up my At-Wills time to time but almost everything is easily destroyed with Blitz, if not, I toss up Path of Blades and run around, it finishes off the rest and then I use blitz on what's not finished off or I'll just grab everything and then whirlwind and stealth -> path of blades -> just about everything will die with that in that area.
(Side note?): Bloodbath -> great for doing the hunt in the new areas, instant catch / kill of the quicklings (is that right "quicklings"?).
[edit]
Didn't notice that was a question. Yeah, leaving Bloodbath at it's default (1/3, since you automatically have it even with respec) should be perfectly fine. It's not really used (that I know of) for doing major damage. It's mostly used as panic or quick easy catches/kills (such as above with quicklings).
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Just my 2 cents... Path of the Blade is rather low damage, it is a lengthy DoT (10 seconds?)
Try activating PotB as you run in (just prior to getting agro, when solo) then immediately stealth... instantly boosts
damage to Combat Advantage. You weaken the crowd to potentially be one shot with Gloaming Cut (if you use it), thus making perma-stealth a bit easier if that is your build, as well as boost your AP gain for more LA.
I've been using it alot on GF and GWF 1 vs 1 fights and its amazing. 90% dmg reduction + 90%reduction in movement speed...Totally locks them down to **** all. Its great at certain times
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The thread is about skills which are useless in PVE. People saying Courage Breaker is useless are saying it's useless in PVE, not PvP.
On topic, I agree Path of Blades is rubbish and think Courage Breaker, Infiltrator's Action (getting combat advantage isn't hard), and First Strike are the most useless, just because there's SO many better things that are more useful. Courage Breaker has great potential but it's a solution to a PvE problem that doesn't exist.
I also never personally use Bait and Switch or Impact Shot, but they're situational and certainly not useless.
It is a great skill if you are looking to max out your damage on the meter. I use Blitz, Lashing Blade, and Path on my bar for many non technical parts of instances (not on boss fights) and I can tell you I am almost always top damage output even with other well geared TR or GWF in party.
-Pop PotB, roll into mob, blitz if multiple, stealth, duelists f, LB at end of stealth, duelists f, repeat as needed.
Path is a passive encounter and very easy to maintain. It adds DPS and AP gain with ease.
Many will say Dazing strike will give you better DPS and they would be wrong. If you play higher level dungeons which require at least one if not two CW, then you know that you will miss with Dazing strike at least half of the time because of their pushes.
In conclusion, Path of the Blade is a great encounter to maximize your DPS meter and is probably the easiest encounter to use.
I do not agree with this: Dazing strike has way more dmg then path of the blades. CW cc the mobs in a corner, Dazing stike hits with a small aoe affect, it stuns and hits for 60-100k (without debuffs) spread over mobs . Of course not if you use rank 5's and lesser vorpal........I tried it all and Dazing Strike / Lashing blade / ItC + Sky Flourish / Duelist flurry + LA has, at least for me, the most dmg output. (runs with 20m + dmg)
Outdated movie with normal vorpal:
http://youtu.be/R2ByDBHer90
Black Lotus
http://nl.twitch.tv/wixardofoz
I actually was quite curious about how much Path of Blades does from this thread discussion. So I reviewed my Combat Log and after parsing a lot of Path of Blades data - both normally and using it while in stealth... I was actually disappointed with my results - I expected something a bit different... I ended up updating the wiki page for Path of Blades. Here's the base summary of what I discovered.
Path of Blades WILL NOT CRITICAL.
All damage done is Physical*[1]
Some damage can be considered Flank
2 Blades attack per, what I'll call, pulse-interval.
When used outside of Stealth
* Lasts for 40 seconds
* 40 Blades are summoned
* Attacks in 20 intervals.
* Interval length is ~1/2 second.
Used while in Stealth
* Lasts for 5 seconds
* 34 Blades total
* Attacks in 17 intervals
* Interval length is roughly 1/3 second
All in all, the tool tip is misleading (nothing new, right?). It doens't pulse "twice as fast". It also summons less blades when in Stealth. However, the damage is fairly accurate in the doubling department - but still no critical hits have occurred. With all that said, while I am disappointed in the actual data, it is still useful.
Oh, god - never overlook Smoke Bomb! I begin to say how many times that thing has saved not only my *** but my parties. I usually have it equipped when going on a dungeon run (up until the boss, rarely will I use it when fighting a boss, depends on party and party setup and tactics). And when the CC do that thing where they pull all the mobs together in a vortex thing (I'm not familiar with other classes' Power names... I focus on TR ^^;), blast smoke bomb right as that finishes - dazes 'em all and helps a lot. I also tend to use it right as an encounter begins.
And despite what the AP bar says about how TR's gain AP - using Smoke Bomb will give you a significant amount of AP as long as it hits an enemy (even if they are immune to it).
*[1] Note: I do not have any enchantments or anything that would make me do any other damage type than physical (such as necrotic or radiant) so someone who is able to might want to double check that if they care to...
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Sneak Attack has plenty of uses in pve, and I run it 100% of the time in pvp. Sneak Attack isn't on my bars for boss fights or regular clearing, but I switch out to it during longer run backs, for skipping long sections of trash i.e. Castle Never (to the first boss and to the last boss), Karrundax (to the last boss), Fardelver's Crypt for speed running to the campfire (moderately less useful now).
Powers I would say have limited utility in pve are as follows:
Infiltrator's Action: this ability is so bad I don't think I've ever put any points into it, not even sure why it exists.
First Strike: OK to use if you want to pvp, but useless otherwise.
Shocking Execution: this ability has a damage cap in pve, and allows you to get better dmg out of 1 lurkers + DF rotation than 1 SE.
Courage Breaker: Already very situational in pvp... all but a waste of space in pve.
Blood Bath: I personally feel that this ability is so pointless I never spec into it for either pvp or pve. Even on a single target the dmg is mediocre at best, and the "dmg immunity".... cmon bro just dodge, use ITC or yell at the tank for not having agro...
Dazing Strike: Minimal utility in PvE, Dmg is OK... but there's better, CC is only 1 target and you can get better CC out of Smoke Bomb if you need it.
Powers that don't need more than 1 point:
Deft Strike: I only use this as a utility skill. Dmg is minimal, and I only slot it when I'm lazy in pvp/pve and don't want to chase or do a bunch of jumping.
Shadow Strike: I only use this to refill my stealth bar, or to daze (from stealth) but I run it 100% of the time in both pvp and pve so I can drop aggro whenever I want/need, AND to boost my dps via Brutal Backstabber Feat in Executioner.
Powers that are Optional:
Gloaming Cut: has recently been buffed, and now is as good or better than DF on targets below 30%. Personally, I run it in place of Sly Flourish in pve, and use it as an execution on weaker trash mobs, and when bosses are below 30% I weave it in between DF's for extra dmg, while keeping the blead up from DF. If you're Lazy mode, and just want to hold right click... you don't NEED to get this, it won't increase your dmg by a TON, but it's fun to see big numbers on crits (15-20k crits), especially since I don't run Lashing Blade in pve.
Lashing Blade: Has good dmg, but long cool down, and given the limited number of encounter slots, it may be skipped if the player deems it.
My personal power setup for pve, is below:
Dailies: Lurkers Assult, Whirlwind of Blades
Class Features: Skillful Infiltrator, Invisible Infiltrator (mostly for the +15% dmg buff, but the free stealth bar is very nice too)
Encounters: Impossible to Catch(ITC), Shadow Strike, Wicked Reminder (I use this to debuf grouped mobs and stack it on bosses, it's 4 second CD lines up perfectly with DF's rotation time, so I just alternate)
At Wills: Deulist's Flurry, Gloaming Cut
Situationally, I will use Smoke Bomb for better group mitigation, but other than that, and the above mentioned situations with Sneak Attack, I don't really switch out my powers for pve.
P.S. I sometimes trade out Deft Strike for Shadow Strike on Pirate King since I don't stealth (or he drops agro and chases cleric) and I get a free dodge... but it's not necessary I really only use it when I'm being lazy.
First off, I want to say that great explanation on the skills you posted. Though I respectfully disagree with Path of the Blades not being useful in PvE but I suppose that's situational - for example, I mostly only use PotB when soloing.
You brought up the Pirate King and not going into stealth...
Just a thought, I just did that run two days ago and my strategy worked flawlessly. The setup and method I used was..
Daily: Lurker's Assault
Features: Skillful Infiltrator & Invisible Infiltrator
Encounter 1: Shadow Strike (for instant stealth)
Encounter 2: Bait & Switch
Encounter 3: Lashing Blade
At-Will (main): Duelist's Flurry
At-Will (secondary): Cloud of Steel
I was able to keep the him in the corner by myself while the other members of the party did their thing and kept adds out of my way (I don't pay attention to exactly what they're doing, I'm focusing purely on my job, but they did their job well). Once we enter, we get setup then I throw some daggers at him, pulling him aside, and someone grabs the adds after I do that. I start out without Stealth so that he focuses a bit on me, do a Flurry or so then when he attacks, I dodge and toss up Stealth. Another flurry following by Bait & Switch and then I run behind him/to the side of him, get in a flurry followed by a Lashing Blade - usually I'm able to pull a Lashing Blade off just in time before Stealth runs out. By this time, my decoy is probably dead and he focuses on me. I dodge the attack, and throw some daggers if Shadow Strike isn't quite ready and use it when it is. Repeating this, and using Lurker's when able to, I was able to keep him on me (and more so, my decoy) the entire fight.
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Dazing strike is our second hardest hitting encounter, and as you said we are for melting down single target mobs / bosses, so I prefer Dazing since it just hits hard. And it does have an aoe effect, it does hit more then one mob. Smoke Bomb is great though when party has a hard time surviving, but for pure singel target dmg...Lashing Blade + Dazing Strike. Me as a rogue don't care about any aoe dmg, just single target. ONLY when I solo pve I use blitz since it one shots al those trash mobs.
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