Well the devs have proven that they are completely incompetent on there goal to make the GWF more viable for group as detail in the "Clarifications and Additions to Great Weapon Fighter Updates" They tried to make things better and only made them worse.
There are so many ways to give GWF an edge in being a more valuable member of a group I don't see why the Devs bothered to change popular GWF moves like Slam into something completely different to make things better. So I'm going to focus on the unpopular moves. One move at a time
Today we will Start with Battle Fury
Battle fury is a Self buff encounter for the GWF. It lasts about 5 seconds and has a 20 second cooldown. It Refills the GWFs stamina to full and increases the damage of at-wills and encounters and action point gain for the duration. Encounters are increased about 10% in damage and At wills are up about 30% (From testing at Rank 3). I will assume action point gain is around 15% from +10% from tooltips I assume it starts at 5% at level one. AP gain is not noticeable through the 5 seconds of testing.
As an Encounter that can increase the damage of your other two encounters by 10% with 15% more action points it really is not worth it compared to any other damage and action point gaining encounter you could choose. All I have ever used this for is to do TR runs as a GWF for the stamina refill. a GWF can outrun a TR doing Coin farms in GG this way.
Now with the goal in mind to make the GWF a more valuable member of the group I suggest making this buff as is a Party buff. Allowing the GWF to refil the entire parties stamina and give them bonus Damage and action point gain on at-wills and encounters.
Every class has a very good utility encounter to bring to the group. GF Knights Valor, DC Astral Seal, CW Repel, TR Smoke Bomb. GWF need one of there own to compare.
Post edited by farfig1337 on
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited August 2013
You failed to address the incredible poor duration of Battle fury. The duration is so small it does not help the GWF at all so it's probably will not help any party members if it does become a group buff. Either the duration needs to be increased to 10 seconds or the cooldown needs to be reduced to 10 seconds.
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durandurahanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I dont agree with your suggestion. Battle fury need to be somekind of active-passive skill to GWF. Many other MMO has an active-passive skill that increase damage/defense etc to its character, same as battle fury. But its long cooldown, and little buff time are made this skill useless. I suggest they add its buff time to 12 seconds, leaving only 8 seconds gap.
Currently, you have to feat it with Relentless Battle Fury to make it remotely usable. I think they could reduce the cooldown and increase the buff duration. As for the party aspect... not a bad idea, but they would probably have to change the skill a bit so it's not too OP.
Take away the pause in movement so you can do it on the run and make it last longer. You are giving up a full potential damage encounter for it, it should be an amazing buff and it is not.
By the way, I like the way your going through these abilities. Maybe some good discussion will come of it if no actual changes.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I like the synergy of Battlefury with the Destroyer build, and when I only want to focus on dps, this is what I slot. It can be used on the run and works nicely when you're Unstoppable or just need to run like crazy
Partybuf would be nice, but maybe too much like the GF's Into the Fray. If the GWF is supposed to be a tank-like class, it could increase threat and last a bit longer.
I think that for destroyers this is a great skill as it provides some needed mobility and power increase, but I do feel like Im using this to get out of serious red zones as opposed to being a destroyer, making this feel at least to me more of an instigator encounter. Maybe instead of the stamina regen it could be a defensive buff of some kind or lifesteal.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
All it truly needs is the buff to last longer than a few seconds.
For the cooldown to be as long as it is, the buff only last long enough to do a full couple of rotations of sure strike. lol.
The damage buff it provides is exactly 20% for both at-wills and encounters at rank 3. Additional AP gain appears to be 30%.
I can definitely see Battle Fury's advantages, even in its current state... provided that the stars align and the moon shines in its full blue glory.
On paper, consistently hitting 5 targets with IBS with Battle Fury active more than makes up for lacking a third damage-dealing encounter. That damage gain over 5 targets is more than enough to make up for any other encounter you'd do without Battle Fury's buff. As for AP gain, I can imagine that also killing those 5 targets can provide with a great AP boost, but it pretty much requires the moon to shine blue.
Another tactic that once again requires a group of at least 5 mobs is to pop Battle Fury and then spam Punishing Charge. You'll hardly do damage to the bunch, but if you hit 5 mobs each time, the 30% gain amounts to extra 5% AP for each charge.
So, yeah.
My suggestions for making it more usable include one of the following:
- Dealing critical strikes increase buff duration by 1 sec.
- Still gives 20% damage to at-wills, but guarantees critical strikes on encounters.
- Its animation is removed.
Gwf need alot mor ethan this change to make them viable in parties. The class needs to be completely redone. But a theme of party support and damage buffs all around is a good way to go.
Gwf need alot mor ethan this change to make them viable in parties. The class needs to be completely redone. But a theme of party support and damage buffs all around is a good way to go.
Instigator with a splash of sentinel is the closest thing gwf has to this. ( Pick drow or tiefling for debuff) Allied opportunity + student of the sword
Instigator with a splash of sentinel is the closest thing gwf has to this. ( Pick drow or tiefling for debuff) Allied opportunity + student of the sword
The point of this suggestion is to give GWF all GWF a power and another role to fill in PVE dungeons so there players will want to have at least one GWF in any dungeon run. I doubt that a very specific race and class spec can be enough to save the GWF.
How would you liked to be asked what race you are before being invited to a group?
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The point of this suggestion is to give GWF all GWF a power and another role to fill in PVE dungeons so there players will want to have at least one GWF in any dungeon run. I doubt that a very specific race and class spec can be enough to save the GWF.
How would you liked to be asked what race you are before being invited to a group?
Im actually fine having any assortment of party members in a group that is capable of completeing dungeons.
however the way the dungeons is designed, it favors CW and rogues too favorably. Not saying to nerf them.
But there needs to be a great essential to having a GWF in a group. They perform damage, its not really needed, they perform utlility, its not really needed, they perform some control which too is not really needed.
They dont need to be a great power house. But they need to have a wider range of useful abilities that render them useful.
In a way that when someone runs a dungeon, people dont think in the back of thier head "Hm. We could've used another rogue/control wizard instead".
The capabilities they have is just simply not enough in a group setting.
They are pretty decent in a solo setting and in pvp setting, of course there can be improvements there. But they greatly need help in a group envoirment.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited September 2013
And that reagenlionel1 is why I agree that Battle fury should be an party buff move that helps everyones damage. Players expect GWFS to bring lots of damage to the table. TR's will feel bad if the GWFS start to greatly out perform them in Damage. But if the GWFs buff the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the TR's and everyone else. Then everyone is happy and GWF's have a spot in the group.
Still this buff needs to last at least 10 seconds like Knights Valor does, or its not effective as a group buff.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And that reagenlionel1 is why I agree that Battle fury should be an party buff move that helps everyones damage. Players expect GWFS to bring lots of damage to the table. TR's will feel bad if the GWFS start to greatly out perform them in Damage. But if the GWFs buff the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the TR's and everyone else. Then everyone is happy and GWF's have a spot in the group.
Still this buff needs to last at least 10 seconds like Knights Valor does, or its not effective as a group buff.
There I would agree with you. That would be one step in the right direction
Ahh good looks like this thread making some headway that people agreeing Battle fury should be a Group Buff. But still I see alot of votes for it be better. How much better does it need to be?
Comments
By the way, I like the way your going through these abilities. Maybe some good discussion will come of it if no actual changes.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Partybuf would be nice, but maybe too much like the GF's Into the Fray. If the GWF is supposed to be a tank-like class, it could increase threat and last a bit longer.
For the cooldown to be as long as it is, the buff only last long enough to do a full couple of rotations of sure strike. lol.
I can definitely see Battle Fury's advantages, even in its current state... provided that the stars align and the moon shines in its full blue glory.
On paper, consistently hitting 5 targets with IBS with Battle Fury active more than makes up for lacking a third damage-dealing encounter. That damage gain over 5 targets is more than enough to make up for any other encounter you'd do without Battle Fury's buff. As for AP gain, I can imagine that also killing those 5 targets can provide with a great AP boost, but it pretty much requires the moon to shine blue.
Another tactic that once again requires a group of at least 5 mobs is to pop Battle Fury and then spam Punishing Charge. You'll hardly do damage to the bunch, but if you hit 5 mobs each time, the 30% gain amounts to extra 5% AP for each charge.
So, yeah.
My suggestions for making it more usable include one of the following:
- Dealing critical strikes increase buff duration by 1 sec.
- Still gives 20% damage to at-wills, but guarantees critical strikes on encounters.
- Its animation is removed.
Instigator with a splash of sentinel is the closest thing gwf has to this. ( Pick drow or tiefling for debuff) Allied opportunity + student of the sword
The point of this suggestion is to give GWF all GWF a power and another role to fill in PVE dungeons so there players will want to have at least one GWF in any dungeon run. I doubt that a very specific race and class spec can be enough to save the GWF.
How would you liked to be asked what race you are before being invited to a group?
Im actually fine having any assortment of party members in a group that is capable of completeing dungeons.
however the way the dungeons is designed, it favors CW and rogues too favorably. Not saying to nerf them.
But there needs to be a great essential to having a GWF in a group. They perform damage, its not really needed, they perform utlility, its not really needed, they perform some control which too is not really needed.
They dont need to be a great power house. But they need to have a wider range of useful abilities that render them useful.
In a way that when someone runs a dungeon, people dont think in the back of thier head "Hm. We could've used another rogue/control wizard instead".
The capabilities they have is just simply not enough in a group setting.
They are pretty decent in a solo setting and in pvp setting, of course there can be improvements there. But they greatly need help in a group envoirment.
Still this buff needs to last at least 10 seconds like Knights Valor does, or its not effective as a group buff.
There I would agree with you. That would be one step in the right direction