"Breaking the Chain" NW-DELOGH4IH - soliciting suggestions

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

I think I may have gotten this quest in working condition. I'm still a bit concerned about encounter balance levels, and I feel like something's still missing, but I'm not quite sure what.

vephid · August 2013

Hello Zerkovaplayer!

Just finished your quest minutes ago. Liked the gulag feeling and I loved being able to explore on my own!

Recruting your own party seemed like a great idea to me, gives a lot of life to the quest.

There are details that you could tweak a little bit more, for instance:

One of the advantages of using an outdoor premade detailed map is that you don't have to worry that much about the budget since the map itself brings a lot details, but this is not enough! Take advantage of it and create a stunning map. Something dynamic, plenty of life.

Some village walls and buildings need to be aligned (Yeh, I know it's a pain, 3D editing doesnt work with buildings but it works with walls).

Go to next map. This is one of the things that one usually ignore, but it's seen and noticed when you are playing quests belonging to other people.

I noticed that, as indicated by the dwarf (the one that is located at the beginning) the game tricks you when following the quest path and sends you into the abyss. You can try to put some wooden fences and invisible walls to let the player know that the game went full crazy and he's not taking the right path. Careful when using these since it can remove that "liberty" feeling of your map.

Overall: I think you made a good job, and gave you a tip.

PS: Want to see more from you!

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

Thank you. I think I've fixed the villages so they look a bit better now. Have also fixed some things that weren't working and added a few more details. Not out of detail budget and not done with that.

Giant invisible wall broke the really bad quest path to Durgen, so now players will probably just look at the map (which will put them on one of the "right" paths). Thank you for the suggestion.

Glad it had a "gulag" feeling to it, that's about the perfect word for what I was aiming for.

adylhere · August 2013

“Gulag” feeling? :P What are you talking about? I find the settings beautiful but needs population. I played it again to check different dialogue option but got them attacking me again

There is text that needs to be in OOC font I think.
I’d like it if the characters’ camps are better populated and decorated, the area feels empty and this would make their camps stand out.

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

So as far as how to color dialogue choices, is there really much of a standard? I haven't noticed it being very consistent from Foundry quest to Foundry quest, or between Foundry quests and the official Crytic quests.

princey1980 · August 2013

Finished and rated your quest. It's a great first effort, but like others say, it could use a little more detail and life in such a large zone. I like the bear in the stream. A little more stuff like that will go a long way. Also, so many of the NPCs join you after defeating them, but they die before you get the chance to get them. I would suggest changing them to "fight to submission", then it won't be quite so jarring seeing them die then get up.

karitr · August 2013

zerkovaplayer wrote: »

So as far as how to color dialogue choices, is there really much of a standard? I haven't noticed it being very consistent from Foundry quest to Foundry quest, or between Foundry quests and the official Crytic quests.

You're right there is only a semi-standard, but I assume the toolset automatically colours text, depending on whether you have wrapped it in a function?

Mission info/IC clue (This is where the standard becomes the most confused. Yellow is often used to signify 'important' PC dialogue, not just mission info, and is often used in place of brown where the response advances the quest dialogue without ending it. It's also quite common to see OOC author notes (as opposed to DM notes) in yellow - e.g. a message to say the author has no control over loot).
OOC info/DM Note
Advances and/or ends dialogue

melinden · August 2013

I just sent you a PM with some detailed notes. I didn't want to spoil anything here.

If you are looking for a grim feel for the atmosphere, you might want to switch the lighting and sky backdrop. Also, more sound and music would be great. I really liked collecting the party, as others have already said.

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

princey1980 wrote: »

Finished and rated your quest. It's a great first effort, but like others say, it could use a little more detail and life in such a large zone. I like the bear in the stream. A little more stuff like that will go a long way. Also, so many of the NPCs join you after defeating them, but they die before you get the chance to get them. I would suggest changing them to "fight to submission", then it won't be quite so jarring seeing them die then get up.

I've tried this, but the neutral post-submission NPC doesn't disappear when I have the original encounter set to disappear (at "Objective Complete"), so then I end up with two copies of the NPC (the new one that has the dialogue, and the "leftover" one from submission.)

If you know how to get it to work properly, I'd be happy to learn.

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

karitr wrote: »

You're right there is only a semi-standard, but I assume the toolset automatically colours text, depending on whether you have wrapped it in a function?

Mission info/IC clue (This is where the standard becomes the most confused. Yellow is often used to signify 'important' PC dialogue, not just mission info, and is often used in place of brown where the response advances the quest dialogue without ending it. It's also quite common to see OOC author notes (as opposed to DM notes) in yellow - e.g. a message to say the author has no control over loot).
OOC info/DM Note
Advances and/or ends dialogue

OK. I've recolored much of the dialogue, and also given Gareth a much larger conversation to have that helps you get an idea of what's going on if you're curious and confused, which some people have indicated; also updated the DM tips to more directly answer some of the questions I've gotten out here.

I'm finding something odd - most "FX" details I place on the map simply do not show up at all. They don't show in the Foundry test-play, and they don't show up in the actual game. Neither does background music, as far as I can tell. Is there something obvious that I'm missing, or is this just that buggy?

chieori · August 2013

I ran your quest as well and posted my comments in my thread, since you posted in mine first. Liked the quest, did have a few points of interest though, you can check [post=5678811]here[/post].

sarlacc1979 · August 2013

Just finished your quest and I thought your story was interesting as was the way you set up the encounters. Obviously its a work in progress so I look forward to trying it when its done. The only suggestion I would make would be to add more detail to the forest, maybe a few non-combat creatures, or some bushes and shrubbery, and some more details to the final building to make it feel more unique.

I hope you'll try my quest too, The Missing Unseen, NW-DLW8SB9CN thanks and good luck

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

Big audio update. I am still not quite certain what the best way to handle this, as I do not have the sound budget to to both appropriate SFX and objective-by-objective music.

I am also strongly tempted to go with no music and just the howling wind and other environmental effects, to give it a very spare feeling. Opinions on the matter are welcome, as - after shelling out for some appropriate environmental, dialogue, and quest sounds - the other option is to have one "randomized" music track for most of the quest with a change for the big fight. Which means it's more or less just background music at that point.

A number of fights have been altered, mostly to avoid audio distractions. Dazzle has been made slightly easier to handle. I've noticed that the audio settings and weapon settings aren't consistent within foundry display from time to time on the encounters - I get hawk noises one time and not-hawk noises another time, so it's a little funky.

sarlacc1979 wrote: »

Just finished your quest and I thought your story was interesting as was the way you set up the encounters. Obviously its a work in progress so I look forward to trying it when its done. The only suggestion I would make would be to add more detail to the forest, maybe a few non-combat creatures, or some bushes and shrubbery, and some more details to the final building to make it feel more unique.

I hope you'll try my quest too, The Missing Unseen, NW-DLW8SB9CN thanks and good luck

Purple banner sticks out a little. Think it's supposed to, but it also goes through one of the tents. Liked it a lot, overall. Didn't get a good look at Splinter's students before they died horribly to an AOE.

At the very end, you might want to have the corporal say he was following up on you (or something) to explain why he's right there; or just put a portal back to the top.

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

Finally put in the loot in the gatekeeper's house. It is of course not anything useful at the moment, since I don't have any other quests out, but you can have fun unlocking it, anyway.

Still can't seem to figure out how to get smoke, fog, fire, and flies to show up. I can position it, the 3D editor thinks it's there, and it's just not showing anything on walkthrough. Anybody know what I might be doing wrong? I'm pretty baffled on this one.

docsc00ter · August 2013

Just finished playing through the quest. I left you a review + tip in-game.

It's clear that you're still tweaking the adventure, but I sure enjoyed what you've got so far! The idea of recruiting various NPCs to accompany the player is fun, and I found myself wanting to replay the adventure and try different outcomes. (And I felt really bad for those potential party members I killed; it really wasn't my intention, ya know. But I'll carry around your body parts as a souvenir just for fun... Heh... Bleh!...)

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

OK, so I expected that everything would be broken from the various foundry bugs everybody's been talking about, but it looks like everything's working. Teleporter (at least, inside Foundry[/i]) is working, trees are more or less behaving, etc.

I've added a couple new features and items that should make some things a little easier to handle as far as maintaining the "correct" level of difficulty for your choices. I think I've fixed certain hostile encounters failing to attack you when you poke around where you're not supposed to. Friendly encounters have been adjusted slightly, making some use of the new "adventurer" friendly encounters where appropriate.

I'm not sure if these encounters change abilities with level; so far I haven't noticed them using anything particularly exciting inside Foundry, but hopefully they are a bit fancier.

I've added another couple of "bonus" options for those who dig around (you can now rescue someone), and a lot more human detail. Let me know what you think.

(And particularly about the music issue, I'm still on the fence between having howling wind for atmosphere with occasional SFX or having randomized background music for most of the quest.)

EDIT: Oh, right, the publish queue is crazy long and they hadn't gotten around to the regularly scheduled publish. >.> Agh.

zerkovaplayer · August 2013

Okay, found and fixed a couple more errors (mostly a few people wearing the wrong costume). Reworked the dialogue for your potential noncombatant rescuee so they no longer tell you who they're terrified of right in front of that person. Not entirely sure the new difficulty-maintenance features are working as intended. May want to tweak the ending a bit to add some dramatic FX, but I hit the detail budget doing some landscaping. We should be back open for business, and I think the quest is just about in its final form now.

zerkovaplayer · September 2013

In spite of my best efforts, the difficulty-maintaining feature is not working as intended.

So here's what I tried to do: Have the friendly encounters drop "when complete" an item redeemable in a later dialogue for a new ally if you play your cards right. It doesn't appear to have worked. Any suggestions? This seems like a bug.

zerkovaplayer · March 2014

Starting to fiddle with foundry again. A little more polishing on details in this quest, but mostly have been working on the prequel to this. (It will probably be a trilogy, and of course I started with volume 2, which can be a little confusing...)

I would really like suggestions on:

1. The opening pitch in the description.
2. What questions arise in this one that I might answer in the sequel?
3. What questions arise that I should foreshadow, or leave clues to, or answer, in the prequel?

klkcahboy90 · March 2014

Hey, as requested, I have finished your quest and here's the review.

I realised I have already played your quest before (turns out I was your last reviewer some time in February).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlyfTc5Eyk6FdEVPSlVwbWRlMVhaSDBZT1FDZzhoNFE#gid=6

Back then, my review was

"I liked how I can choose what to do with the other characters.

I will not comment on the story since this is supposed to be episode 2. I'm quite confused as to why I seem to be a villian or anti-hero but I supposed that will be answered by episode 1.

I had a little difficulty with the last objective of walk through the portal because even though I was standing in the middle of the stone henge, it did not activate. Thankfully, after some walking around, it worked again.

The betrayal of Gareth, if I did not talk to the first NPC, I would not have noticed it. This is because there are other enemies fighting me and they take away the attention so if the event is to have any dramatic event, it might deserve its own dialog.

I'm confused as to why the Elven Enchantress is a timid NPC follower after I took her prisoner.

The dialog from the Important-looking Guy in the correction facility is a little hard to get considering he runs from me. So perhaps you could just use a pop-up chat instead.

All the above are basically just nit-picking. The quest in general is good and I look forward to playing part one."

Of course, that was the review of your quest back in February.

Back then, I took everyone short of the dwarf prisoner and I followed the road.

This time round, I made everyone my friend short of Dazzle who I just disarmed.

This is one of the few quests that I have reviewed so far that I think is close to zero-error.

Well done!

That said, here is the review.

I got no major issues with your quest so here are the nitty gritties.

1. The starting objective says to "Go on Vacation" but neither the journal nor the quest objective says where.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3335219714330499009/1A8ACD02DB020503E433BD32AD994CDCB9AD352D/

As you can see, I had to guess from those icons which 1 it is and I didn't have many quests on me active at that moment so this could prove an issue to some other people.

2. http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3335219714330500066/6FFA7764AE48579D640D2209BA406E3DD74BFFD1/
"Their names are Durgen,"

3. http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3335219714330501802/B779CC4099C1D27E0A8BC6DD77D74C9471DB2A5C/
It is still hard to get a dialog from this guy who is running away. Maybe just use pop-up dialogs instead of contactable.

4. I noticed that for conversations you do not use the feature of return to prompt.
This should be used for your DM note and the conversation with that correction facility lady.

This is because you want players to be able to read the other dialog paths which are not exclusive.

For eg. Conversation A can give choice 1 and 2. Choice 1 leads to conversation B and when continue is pressed, it sends the player back to conversation A so they can now choose choice 2 and read it as well.

To do this, drag the arrow below Conversation B and above "dialog end" to Coversation A.
Then, press "Play Dialog" and see if it works the way you want it to.

Also, remember to create a choice 3 in Conversation A to end it immediately since some players who are new may not know of the button on the lower right that ends the conversation instantly.

The above is good for your DM note especially since I don't think people want to know 1 info (choice 1) then have to reinteract (Press F) again with the NPC just to read another info (choice 2) and then repeat the process of popping in and out of dialog screen and pressing F another 5 to 6 times.

5. The portal thing still didn't work for me immediately this time round and I still can't figure out why. I don't know if it is because you used a marker which is too small or if it is a foundry bug or what.

6. This time round I took the path to the right and I reached the building before talking to the lady along the road.

Thus, I immediately noticed Gareth but he was lying facedown for some odd reason.

This is not really a mistake on your part since I did not follow the road but I figure that the facedown animation will still appear so unless it is intended, you may want to investigate it.

That's all I have for you.

Good job=)

zerkovaplayer · March 2014

klkcahboy90 wrote: »

I had a little difficulty with the last objective of walk through the portal because even though I was standing in the middle of the stone henge, it did not activate. Thankfully, after some walking around, it worked again.

The betrayal of Gareth, if I did not talk to the first NPC, I would not have noticed it. This is because there are other enemies fighting me and they take away the attention so if the event is to have any dramatic event, it might deserve its own dialog.

Hm. I might want to bring that out. It's easy to miss.

I'm confused as to why the Elven Enchantress is a timid NPC follower after I took her prisoner.

You have three choices with the four "core" NPCs (with Ragnar and Xybil, there's a bit more complexity): Kill, take prisoner, or recruit.

They all change body language when you take them prisoner. All actually have the same AI (Follow, Non-combat). Vera (and also Xybil, but getting your hands on Xybil as a prisoner or ally is tricky) uses NPC (Rebel), which is a bit fearful.

Vera has gone into this a bit bored, a bit crazy, and more than a little bit overconfident. Getting beaten up and blindfolded leaves her understandably a little on edge. You've spared her life - for now - but she's worried about being treated the way that she's been treating the prisoners.

The question is why the others are different, really. Durgen is working with a combination of anger and shame. He feels like he owes you a favor for sparing his life, but isn't exactly happy with himself or the situation. He's not really worried about what you might do to him.

Gareth is a lot younger, saner, and more optimistic than Vera. He figures he'll have the opportunity to turn the tables on you sooner or later.

Dazzle is entirely unintimidated, mostly because she still feels in control of the situation.

The dialog from the Important-looking Guy in the correction facility is a little hard to get considering he runs from me. So perhaps you could just use a pop-up chat instead.

That was sort of the point, but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with the players is sometimes a little overdone.

All the above are basically just nit-picking. The quest in general is good and I look forward to playing part one."

Of course, that was the review of your quest back in February.

Back then, I took everyone short of the dwarf prisoner and I followed the road.

This time round, I made everyone my friend short of Dazzle who I just disarmed.

This is one of the few quests that I have reviewed so far that I think is close to zero-error.

Well done!

Thanks!

That said, here is the review.

I got no major issues with your quest so here are the nitty gritties.

1. The starting objective says to "Go on Vacation" but neither the journal nor the quest objective says where.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3335219714330499009/1A8ACD02DB020503E433BD32AD994CDCB9AD352D/

As you can see, I had to guess from those icons which 1 it is and I didn't have many quests on me active at that moment so this could prove an issue to some other people.

Hm. OK, that I should fix. I should be a bit more explicit about directing people to the map (and where). (I could also use a different method, hooking in from a location in PE, for example.)

2. http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3335219714330500066/6FFA7764AE48579D640D2209BA406E3DD74BFFD1/
"Their names are Durgen,"

3. http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/3335219714330501802/B779CC4099C1D27E0A8BC6DD77D74C9471DB2A5C/
It is still hard to get a dialog from this guy who is running away. Maybe just use pop-up dialogs instead of contactable.

4. I noticed that for conversations you do not use the feature of return to prompt.
This should be used for your DM note and the conversation with that correction facility lady.

This is because you want players to be able to read the other dialog paths which are not exclusive.

For eg. Conversation A can give choice 1 and 2. Choice 1 leads to conversation B and when continue is pressed, it sends the player back to conversation A so they can now choose choice 2 and read it as well.

To do this, drag the arrow below Conversation B and above "dialog end" to Coversation A.
Then, press "Play Dialog" and see if it works the way you want it to.

Also, remember to create a choice 3 in Conversation A to end it immediately since some players who are new may not know of the button on the lower right that ends the conversation instantly.

The above is good for your DM note especially since I don't think people want to know 1 info (choice 1) then have to reinteract (Press F) again with the NPC just to read another info (choice 2) and then repeat the process of popping in and out of dialog screen and pressing F another 5 to 6 times.

I think I may have had that in the DM note originally. It should go back there.

If I'm thinking of the right one, the "corrections facility lady" is actually one of the optional recruit/capture/fight encounters. She'll go right on your way if you don't say anything too alarming, but while you can find out information from her, there are risks.

5. The portal thing still didn't work for me immediately this time round and I still can't figure out why. I don't know if it is because you used a marker which is too small or if it is a foundry bug or what.

Not sure what's going on with that. I'll see if I can isolate and iron it out.

6. This time round I took the path to the right and I reached the building before talking to the lady along the road.

Thus, I immediately noticed Gareth but he was lying facedown for some odd reason.

This is not really a mistake on your part since I did not follow the road but I figure that the facedown animation will still appear so unless it is intended, you may want to investigate it.

That's all I have for you.

Good job=)

That particular instance of Gareth was set on "feign death," which they don't actually have to be.

One of the complicated issues is that the logic system of the Foundry is very limited. I can't actually force a dialogue except on the quest line, and the quest line is strictly linear. I would like to call more attention to Gareth.

tiborrus · March 2014

Hi, zerkovaplayer!

I just played your quest with my Lev.60. GWF.

Very original idea, good map, enjoyable fights!
Congratulation: 5/5!

"Breaking the Chain" NW-DELOGH4IH - soliciting suggestions

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