This is one of the confusions people have concerning the Great Weapon Fighter. I'll just copy paste straight from the Player handbook:
So there's no such thing as an "AOE striker". The definition of striker is concentrated damage on a single target. What people have been calling the AOE striker is actually a Defender/Controller hybrid.
well, i suggest leave phb alone and put your eyes on cryptic's statement. pnp's phb is not the bible of this game. actually "This is one of the confusions people have concerning the" game.
well, i suggest leave phb alone and put your eyes on cryptic's statement. pnp's phb is not the bible of this game. actually "This is one of the confusions people have concerning the" game.
I gave a more refined definition. It takes a while to get a handle on the GWF.
They are a secondary defender. This means that they will never match a pure defender class like a guardian. They just do not have the mitigation, threat, self healing, and overall function as a main tank type like the guardian does. They can add tank, with some minor balance they can even add tank well. They can also tank some bosses if they focus on defense enough, but they are never going to be what a guardian is in this role.
They are a controller. Mainly they focus on the AoE damage aspect of a controller. But they do have some single target stun and prone encounter powers. They also have some AoE slow, push back, and pull to encounters. However all of their major control AoE elements, such as a mass prone effect, are limited to daily powers. Thus they can do as much, or if the build focuses more on offense and sacrifices defense, more area damage than a controller, however they also do not control as well or as efficiently. A big hint on this is the 2nd at will power. The GWF gets Reaping Strike which is a universal build choice for AoE damage. The CW gets frost ray, which is a single damage but AoE slow / snare. It pretty much tells you straight up that one focuses on damage, and the other on control.
They are a striker. Mainly they focus on the mobility of a striker. They will struggle, nay the will never, equal the single target damage a rogue puts out. It just cannot be achieved. However if focused in not only offense on build, but also on a very specific power set, they can put out as much single target damage as any class that is not a pure striker.
The GWF changes how much they emphasize based on build.
A Sentinel (defender focus): Will be a secondary defender that has lesser elements in controller and striker.
A Instigator (AoE, burst / combat advantage focus): Will be a primary controller in damage, and sacrifice some AoE damage for the sake of more control, burst damage, movement, or survival. Generally the middle ground build between a defender and controller that favors PvP but can still perform as a damage role in PvE)
A Destroyer (AoE, sustained damage): Will be a primary controller in damage all else will be sacrificed in this pursuit and none in the game can achieve more sustained AoE damage. Will still retain striker movement but must sacrifice some along with striker damage as well to maximize the AoE damage. This also leaves them with less options for AoE control if the build is maximized for AoE damage.
That is the reason why I came up with the role of:
Secondary Defender / AoE Control Damage with Limited Control Effects / Striker Movement
well, i suggest leave phb alone and put your eyes on cryptic's statement. pnp's phb is not the bible of this game. actually "This is one of the confusions people have concerning the" game.
What part of the information provided so far are you in disagreement with? I'm guessing you're one of the people who thinks GWF is a Striker and should do as much single target damage as a rogue? Just accept the class for what it is. It is not a Striker.
Cryptic actually hasn't made a statement. You will not find anywhere on the site that says they are a Striker or single target dps. They've been very quiet about their intentions for GWF, but, as a class based on a 4th edition class, and based on what has been in the last 2 betas, GWF is intended to be AoE dps (Controller) and Defender.
Game is based on 4th edition.
4th edition follows clearly defined roles.
AOE damage classes are defined as Controllers.
Single target damage classes are defined as Strikers.
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With that said bearyale, I hope they dont plan to go against the E4 and make it one or the other. Remember this is a business first and for most but lets hope they keep traditions of the way the game was always intended to be played.
I would like to seem them be able to take more hits or as they are taking hit be able to transfer agro or something along the lines of that.
Thx for taking the time to put all this info up for all of us .
I have a question for you ladies/gents that are well informed on the subject. With the current set up, the chances a 2 bladed Ranger will be implemented is reasonable. Considering the Warlock will most likely be a Ranged striker, having one more melee striker should balance in right. Am I wrong to assume that? Let me know what you think.
Thx for taking the time to put all this info up for all of us .
I have a question for you ladies/gents that are well informed on the subject. With the current set up, the chances a 2 bladed Ranger will be implemented is reasonable. Considering the Warlock will most likely be a Ranged striker, having one more melee striker should balance in right. Am I wrong to assume that? Let me know what you think.
My money is on the ranger to be a melee or hybrid range/melee. I would be pretty surprised id a pure archer was implemented. This is the reason why.
1) Way back in 2010 there was an interview with Cryptic on IGN that had Ranger, melee, striker in as a base 5 class. The GWF replaced it.
2) As you mentioned, we all know that the Scourge Warlock is coming in as a ranged striker. At that point we are seriously missing a dual wield melee striker that uses more than daggers.
3) Is not the entire theme of this game tying into Salvatore's current Drizzt novels?
4) There are more balance issues with a ranged striker.
5) The 4E PnP version of an all bow ranger is.... going to be tough to translate and complicate the balance even more.
6) If they bring in melee rangers they get the $$ from the Drizzt clones sooner. In fact they should release it within the first 60 days so that they have to pay $200 to be a drow. :P
When in a group, try not to use knockback powers on enemies that melee classes have a handle on. This ends up making the encounter take longer by lowering the overall DPS. Knockbacks can still be useful to get something off the cleric, or knock an enemy into a bottomless pit, but in general, be wary of when you're using them.
This! 100X this. i wish every CW and whoever else has knock back would read this and remember. i cant count how many times my dps was ****ed up just because some cw in my team decided to push enemies around:/
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agordanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Great thread with lot of useful tips. Thank you for this.
And remember, DON'T stand in the fire!
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osurfer3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
+1 for sticky wel done OP, i was considering writting something about the R in RPG, a lot of people seem to forget that in this game ore at least act according to it . U saved me the trouble
Petram Sacram - I am no devine cleric, i am a Gaurdian fighter in disguise with better threat and supportive spells -
Awesome tips! I'm going to recommend this to my guild!
Speaking of getting out of the red area of attack...
As I've leveled up my guardian; I've noticed a few bosses where even on a successful block, if I'm in the red area, it will heal the boss. Like a life syphon. On one boss, the ground actually turned blue after I blocked the red attack, and if I was in that blue area it would heal the boss.
I would suggest getting used to moving out of the red area of effect, paying attention to where your healer is located as not to position him/her in the next cone of attack of the mob.
Having a GF main character, I feel the info in the third bullet point of the Combat Advantage/Positioning is off a bit. The striker should be positioning themselves in the combat advantage zone provided by the tank, not vice versa.
Having a GF main character, I feel the info in the third bullet point of the Combat Advantage/Positioning is off a bit. The striker should be positioning themselves in the combat advantage zone provided by the tank, not vice versa.
Agreed. The GF has more things to worry about than granting combat advantage for a DPS boost. That is a melee strikers responsibility.
Comments
well, i suggest leave phb alone and put your eyes on cryptic's statement. pnp's phb is not the bible of this game. actually "This is one of the confusions people have concerning the" game.
I gave a more refined definition. It takes a while to get a handle on the GWF.
They are a secondary defender. This means that they will never match a pure defender class like a guardian. They just do not have the mitigation, threat, self healing, and overall function as a main tank type like the guardian does. They can add tank, with some minor balance they can even add tank well. They can also tank some bosses if they focus on defense enough, but they are never going to be what a guardian is in this role.
They are a controller. Mainly they focus on the AoE damage aspect of a controller. But they do have some single target stun and prone encounter powers. They also have some AoE slow, push back, and pull to encounters. However all of their major control AoE elements, such as a mass prone effect, are limited to daily powers. Thus they can do as much, or if the build focuses more on offense and sacrifices defense, more area damage than a controller, however they also do not control as well or as efficiently. A big hint on this is the 2nd at will power. The GWF gets Reaping Strike which is a universal build choice for AoE damage. The CW gets frost ray, which is a single damage but AoE slow / snare. It pretty much tells you straight up that one focuses on damage, and the other on control.
They are a striker. Mainly they focus on the mobility of a striker. They will struggle, nay the will never, equal the single target damage a rogue puts out. It just cannot be achieved. However if focused in not only offense on build, but also on a very specific power set, they can put out as much single target damage as any class that is not a pure striker.
The GWF changes how much they emphasize based on build.
A Sentinel (defender focus): Will be a secondary defender that has lesser elements in controller and striker.
A Instigator (AoE, burst / combat advantage focus): Will be a primary controller in damage, and sacrifice some AoE damage for the sake of more control, burst damage, movement, or survival. Generally the middle ground build between a defender and controller that favors PvP but can still perform as a damage role in PvE)
A Destroyer (AoE, sustained damage): Will be a primary controller in damage all else will be sacrificed in this pursuit and none in the game can achieve more sustained AoE damage. Will still retain striker movement but must sacrifice some along with striker damage as well to maximize the AoE damage. This also leaves them with less options for AoE control if the build is maximized for AoE damage.
That is the reason why I came up with the role of:
Secondary Defender / AoE Control Damage with Limited Control Effects / Striker Movement
What part of the information provided so far are you in disagreement with? I'm guessing you're one of the people who thinks GWF is a Striker and should do as much single target damage as a rogue? Just accept the class for what it is. It is not a Striker.
Cryptic actually hasn't made a statement. You will not find anywhere on the site that says they are a Striker or single target dps. They've been very quiet about their intentions for GWF, but, as a class based on a 4th edition class, and based on what has been in the last 2 betas, GWF is intended to be AoE dps (Controller) and Defender.
-= Dark Star Syndicate - Heavy RP, Dark Themes =-
Website ★ Recruitment
I would like to seem them be able to take more hits or as they are taking hit be able to transfer agro or something along the lines of that.
I have a question for you ladies/gents that are well informed on the subject. With the current set up, the chances a 2 bladed Ranger will be implemented is reasonable. Considering the Warlock will most likely be a Ranged striker, having one more melee striker should balance in right. Am I wrong to assume that? Let me know what you think.
My money is on the ranger to be a melee or hybrid range/melee. I would be pretty surprised id a pure archer was implemented. This is the reason why.
1) Way back in 2010 there was an interview with Cryptic on IGN that had Ranger, melee, striker in as a base 5 class. The GWF replaced it.
2) As you mentioned, we all know that the Scourge Warlock is coming in as a ranged striker. At that point we are seriously missing a dual wield melee striker that uses more than daggers.
3) Is not the entire theme of this game tying into Salvatore's current Drizzt novels?
4) There are more balance issues with a ranged striker.
5) The 4E PnP version of an all bow ranger is.... going to be tough to translate and complicate the balance even more.
6) If they bring in melee rangers they get the $$ from the Drizzt clones sooner. In fact they should release it within the first 60 days so that they have to pay $200 to be a drow. :P
And remember, DON'T stand in the fire!
Speaking of getting out of the red area of attack...
As I've leveled up my guardian; I've noticed a few bosses where even on a successful block, if I'm in the red area, it will heal the boss. Like a life syphon. On one boss, the ground actually turned blue after I blocked the red attack, and if I was in that blue area it would heal the boss.
I would suggest getting used to moving out of the red area of effect, paying attention to where your healer is located as not to position him/her in the next cone of attack of the mob.
Agreed. The GF has more things to worry about than granting combat advantage for a DPS boost. That is a melee strikers responsibility.