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Is it just me or does it seem that healing is largely wasted?
satanous1
Member Posts: 22 Arc User
I'll be doing a run, and it seems like it goes like this. No healing need or too much needed. There seems to be very little middle ground. What ends up happening is I just follow my "rotation" in case someone needs the heals. But for most of the fight, it's all overhealing. Seems like a waste.
It seems like the class is more or less there just to save people a bit on potions. Why even have a healing class and just call it a buff/debuff class?
It seems like the class is more or less there just to save people a bit on potions. Why even have a healing class and just call it a buff/debuff class?
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Maybe it's just that I'm vastly underestimating the benefit of healing, but in my experiences (T2 content) when the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hits the fan, the DC has very little means of bringing someone back from the brink.
This is why I giggle when I see new Clerics who think their primary role is "healing" and run around T1/T2 content with just Healing Word and Soothing Light trying to plink away at large hits to someone's health bar after the fact...
Ultimately, we're not there to bring everyone back from the brink of death, we're there to stop anyone getting there in the first place. If everyone is at full health and never seems to get any lower, this doesn't mean you're redundant, it means you're doing a fine job.
If you're feeling underappreciated, well..first things first: healers are almost ALWAYS underappreciated (though I've noticed a lot more "thanks for the heals" in this game than in many), and second...well: just stop doing anything for a few seconds and see exactly how much benefit you're providing.
Parties that can steamroll through T2 content without stopping for breath will frequently drop in seconds if the DC goes afk without letting anyone know. Ultimately a good team can manage without a DC, but they'll be playing slower, more carefully, with smaller pulls and with heavy potion use.
WITH a DC, they can play fast and loose, spam attacks, fling monsters around, grab stupid amounts of aggro and still breeze through. This is what people want to do anyway, so once they realise how much easier it is to do with a DC keeping them alive, they'll love you for making it possible.
The heals are by no means insubstantial if used appropriately and in combination with mitigation buffs where possible.
Where a Healing focused Cleric excels is dragging undergeared parties through content they should probably not even be considering.
My goal in a dungeon run is for the party to use zero health potions. It is only the tank you NEED to heal anyway, the other party members only need heals when they bite off more than they can chew or get stuck in the red ie: they stuff up in some way.
So rather than just spamming abilities like a wild man it is often better to just hold onto them until they are needed and just stick with the basics of Healing Word on anyone who's taking damage unless it is three or more and then hit them all with a bastion of health.
As soon as a particularly nasty mob with deadly red abilities comes along then that's when you break out the big guns. In fact once you are familiar enough with the enemies you can even hold off until they actually start to cast their big hitter.
For example we all know how predictable mobs are when they suck everyone in and knock them back out doing considerable damage. I can usually lay a Divine Astral Shield down around the mob while being pulled towards it and still dodge out without being hit(truthfully I do it with AS, BoH, SB and DL...Divine Sunburst is great you can get sucked in and be the one knocking everything else out).
If you don't meter out your heals you wind up in situations where your best heals are keeping people topped up when they are under no real threat and when a really nasty bit of damage comes in they are forced to use pots because all of your abilities are on cooldown.
The only time I spam abilities is for rapid Action Point regeneration after using Hallowed Ground or when everything has gone haywire and I just lay out as much as I can wherever I can and hope it's enough. As soon as the chaos dies down to a more manageable level though I will start metering out the heals again to make sure nothing is wasted and nothing is on cooldown that doesn't need to be.
Example of damage taken on an average skirmish at 43
Tank: 165000
Healer: 147000
DPS:60000
DPS:45000
DPS:40000
Anyone else noticing the same problem?
Yup, pretty much hit the nail on the head, and I don't even PvE
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
That is part of the problem right there, clerics need just about the most healing plain and simple and yet they have a 40% healing reduction upon themselves. Tanks have a way to heal up their own damage quick enough. TR's and CW's need some healing at times, but DC's are the ones that need the most healing and the ones who get totally screwed by a 40% healing reduction penalty which not only affects their heals but their dailies and their ability to use potions as well.
I have been looking forward to playing until reading this and find myself somewhat concerned.
I am a healer at heart - I play to bring people back from the bring of death, I do not enjoy playing a support nearly as much as panic healing someone in trouble.
Could someone take a moment to let me know if it will be possible to build my character in such a manner that it will be a functional healer first of all, and a support role secondly? Or will this not be an effective way to play?
Thank you for your time
It depends on what you mean by "functional healer".
If you mean, can you routinely save individuals or yourself from brink of death at any time with some form of burst healing spells, ala WoW's Priest or even Druid, certainly not.
If you mean, can you keep a group alive in many contexts (except perhaps pvp), then, yes, that's very much possible unless the group goes out of their way to try to die or not do their roles...
Ultimately, whatever build you chose will be largely irrelevant to being functional as a "healer" in NW.
Alright, thank you.
Guess there's one way to find out if the playstyle suits me!
I was indeed hoping that to be the case, with a skill cap required of players being the main factor holding players back from being able to do so. I enjoy being a burst healer, even if this relies on abilities with long cooldowns that require forethought and timing to use - it is important in my eyes to have the capability.
Download is almost complete either way. *smiles*
Keep astral seal on mobs people are hitting.
Always spam your at-will if you're not using an encounter or daily ability.
Moving out of the bad stuff is more important than using an ability.
Adds will love you. It's everyone else's job in the dungeon to save you. You will have to learn how to kite and use your abilities effectively. If you have a bad tank/dps, there's not much you can do about it until you are 60 and have stats that basically make you a tank.
Healing is more secondary to your role. You're primarily a buff/debuff bot. You can heal, and your healing numbers will be in the millions of healing done, but it's largely overhealing. If people get in trouble, more often than not they stood in the bad or have adds beating their face in. They a) need to drink a potion - regardless of how good you are b) need to being kiting/using their abilities to deal with the adds.
A teammate who gets hit by a powerful attack will take massive damage and will have to use a healing potion, but if you're a good cleric then the only reason he's not already kissing the floor in the first place is because of your damage mitigation skills.
There is a difference between a cleric who only "heals" when it is required and a cleric who knows the importance of keeping damage mitigation buffs/burst heals up on key players, or when the situation requires it. The former is an "acceptable" cleric - he is a good player because he knows what other people should be doing, but he's only a decent cleric because he's not using his class to its full potential. The latter is a good cleric, and the difference between the two is like comparing ordinary fried chicken to KFC.
To be a good cleric you need EXPERIENCE. BTW at level 60 you are never expected to kite unless you agree to do it. Pay attention to whether or not there is a GF in the party.
Happily, healing pre-60 is incredibly easy and for half of those levels you'll only need to cast Sunburst/Astral Seal.
Beyond that, there are a few minor things you might get, but none of them are great. Slotting Foresight with the Benefit of Foresight feat is pretty good. But then you have to make a hard choice between Healer's Lore, Divine Fortune, or Holy Fervor. If you want Hallowed Ground spam, you need Holy Fervor. That's probably the best way (with Moontouched) if you stay in the area long enough.
I find I have a big problem keeping up Divine Power, and have to slot Divine Fortune a lot. Sadly, there is no reliable way to build it out of combat unless you have Ethereal Boon, and then you can spam your encounters and get it back. Very slowly. Sunburst, Divine Glow, Daunting Light is the fastest rotation for it. Sometimes you can stand in fire or something and heal yourself with Healing Word for pretty good Divine Power building. Overhealing doesn't give you Divine Power at all, though it will set off procs like Rising Hope, which is nice.
In theory, Break the Spirit would be a good debuff, but only being able to put it on one thing at a time makes it pointless. It's the small mobs that usually hit really hard, and the add spawns that do the most damage. If the boss it hitting everyone, there's a major problem.
We can put out a lot of healing if you spec for it. Saving someone who took a big hit? Maybe a divine Healing Word or Divine Armor if you have it up. A divine Foremaster's Flame will also do it pretty well, but I find that people either don't notice the graphic or don't know what it means, and will run from or knockback the one enemy that's putting out a massive heal. I keep pushing the idea of a ground projection (blue circle) around the mob with divine FF. I think that would make a huge difference.
I usually run T2 content with Sun Burst (to build Divine Power and to proc Linked Spirit), Astral Shield, and a third situational power. Healing Word, Forgemaster's Flame, or Divine Glow usually. Divine Glow will actually proc Repurpose Soul heals if it crits, and it's good for building Action Points, so I still consider it to have some healing capacity in a way. If I am having an issue keeping up Divine Power, I do Healing Word with Divine Fortune. This is also good to keep people topped off between pulls: most geared players are running with an Ioun Stone rather than healer companion, and regeneration on gear is not very good at topping you off.
Astral Seal might the best healing ability we have, to be honest. Throw it on everything you can, whenever you can. I like pairing it with Brand of the Sun, but BotS is horrible for building Divine Power in my experience. It adds a little bit with every tick, but if a mob dies early, or you need to build up a pip of Divine Power in a pinch, it's awful.
Try running CN without Foresight, Astral Shield, Divine Armor, Hallowed Ground then come back here and tell us how well it went. No need to tell your group to more than triple the amount of potions and double the injury kits they are carrying because I'm sure they won't notice the extra 67% mitigation at all!
Sure, you can get away with just Astral Seal on everything, but when not a single one of our healing spells can match a potion, and we have the tools as Cleric is to easily match incoming damage with outgoing mitigation plus enemy debuffing almost 100% of the time, I think you can safely say pure healing is a lower priority to the Cleric in its current state.
Also, how do you have Divinity problems if you spam Astral Seal + Divine Glow + Sunburst all the time? Do you not have Bountiful Fortune or even Righteous Rage of Tempus?
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Well, either either Divine Armor -or- Hallowed Ground, not both. AS is good if people can stand in it. The biggest problem is that we are constantly kiting things. We are far too squishy (even with all that mitigation) to just let things hit on us. Actually, that may not be true. I suspect it's because we only get 60% of healing. That's effectively taking more damage. So it's hard to stand STILL long enough to get off Sunburst or an At-Will to build up DP.
I only have 3 in Bountiful Fortune, because I put 2 into cleanse. I don't have any Righteous Rage of Tempus at the moment, though I did in my last spec and it wasn't really that much better (and I push 40% crit). I'm not even sure if the feat works, tbh. It would be on a long list of broken DC feats and abilities.
What? You must be playing with terrible tanks in your groups then. I am never having to kite or having any issues keeping DP up in any fight.. and when I do have adds on me, it is minimal maybe 1 or 2 stray adds that can't do a thing to me in blue AS.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Sure both - in tough dungeons I always use them both. What are the alternatives anyway? Guardian of Faith? Useful in PVP for the knockdown, but I only run in in T1 dungeons for fun, not in hard T2 ones. Flame Strike? The little damage you deal to T2 mobs and bosses with it can be totally ignored anway. If you use it or not makes no difference at all. Hammer of Fate? I don't even have specced that anymore since the nerf and also in dungeons you won't need the healer to deal a little single target damage. In comparison to the damage the other classes deal it is comparable to an encounter power of them anyway.
The only valid combination of Dailies in T2 dungeons for me is Divine Armor and Hallowed Ground. Hallowed ground for everytime it'S up and you don't fight encounters that are killed in 5 seconds anway and Divine Armor as a life saver when people get beaten, are scattered, Astral shield is not yet up etc.
Stahp!
I want this class in NW.