Need Advice From "Masters Of Light"

redneckronin · July 2013

OK, some of the quests I have played recently have been masterful in their use of light.

I'll admit, I have never once got a "depth fade" to work other than to create a quite obviously box-like blob of "darkness".

So if any of you Authors who excel with using light, and shadows would like to give me a bit advice it would be much appreciated.

I want to use one of the Large Cave large rooms, but make it look and feel as though it is open to the sky at the top. Lots of light, much brighter than any of the "lighting options" we are given.

Any ideas how to go about that, because I am about stumped.

All The Best

antonkyle · July 2013

Great post, just tagging it so I remember to look at the replies.

ddsauter · July 2013

hey there:

the best way I have found to do what you want, is to create your own cave on an outdoor map. they have the big giant rock/cliff walls that are perfect for making the sides then you can choose to leave the top open or partially cover it with some giant cave rocks. I've done this recently and had the opposite problem. i was trying to get the natural light gone, and make it dark. Hope it works out for you ;o)

Dee

redneckronin · July 2013

ddsauter wrote: »

hey there:

the best way I have found to do what you want, is to create your own cave on an outdoor map. they have the big giant rock/cliff walls that are perfect for making the sides then you can choose to leave the top open or partially cover it with some giant cave rocks. I've done this recently and had the opposite problem. i was trying to get the natural light gone, and make it dark. Hope it works out for you ;o)

Dee

Can't use that method here, although I have used it once already in an earlier part of my campaign.

The cave is, if I can get it to work, the entry point to an existing indoor map, copied over from a previous quest.

All The Best

saerrael · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

OK, some of the quests I have played recently have been masterful in their use of light.

I'll admit, I have never once got a "depth fade" to work other than to create a quite obviously box-like blob of "darkness".

So if any of you Authors who excel with using light, and shadows would like to give me a bit advice it would be much appreciated.

I want to use one of the Large Cave large rooms, but make it look and feel as though it is open to the sky at the top. Lots of light, much brighter than any of the "lighting options" we are given.

Any ideas how to go about that, because I am about stumped.

All The Best

What you could do is plaster your ceiling with white fades, then add rock work where you feel it to be correct and use light-beams for falling in sunlight. The white fades will give a daylight feel, mind, I don't think we have a lot more options on making a cave feel outdoors in another time of day (morning/ late afternoon).
If you're going for this, you may also wish to add white static light (no glow) in lower areas where you think it would be logical for sunlight to hit some or the other.

If your cave is under a forest, you can add green light, as well.

nimmanu · July 2013

I agree, use the white fades. Also use some of the 'cloud' boxes, things, whatever they are called (just put cloud in search on details tab). I'd use the white fade boxes, the blue dynamic light just below them, and cloud boxes. Although the cloud box things are huge, so you want to be sure it doesn't bleed into another area.

I would only use one area of light beams, myself. To give the illusion of a sun.

Blocking out some of it with stones will decrease the amount of details you have to waste there, too, though. At worst, you can put an overhead 'ceiling' with one large area of light beam coming down into it, and lush flora all around (er, up to the point where it's possible with our limited repartee of items.

zovya · July 2013

Some rules that I've run across:

Lights will only cast onto placed items on an outdoor map. They will not shine onto terrain or anything else that is already included on the pre-made map.

The engine will only display 5 dynamic lights at once. So light your area with static lights, then only use dynamic lights when you want to cast shadows.

runis12 · July 2013

saerrael wrote: »

then add rock work where you feel it to be correct

Hi, red. I'm actually doing the same thing- using a chain of cave rooms with light up top to create a frosty ravine. It's snowing in my quest, so fogs are actually working for me for "daylight" effcts, but I think Saer made a good point on the rock work. You don't want the boxed-in, aquarium look up top with your light. This is true for making underwater environments too. Yay, rock work!

redneckronin · July 2013

The problem I'm having is the minute size of the White Depthfade box in relation to my map.

I'm wanting to use the Large C-Shaped room, then have the "Floating Island" elements in there to show a difficult path up to "the surface".

I'd need to use close to 70 depthfade boxes to cover the area I need, and judging by how small an area a static light covers over 150 of them.

Given my map is already over half-budget on resources I'm struggling to see how I can get close to the effect I want and still have budget allowance left for the other areas that need detailing.

All that is really required is a "Lighting > Skylight" option adding to the Cave room set, and have lighting options that actually have an impact on the ambient light within a room.

I simply can not even begin to understand why all room sets don't have all lighting options built in as standard.

All The Best

antonkyle · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

The problem I'm having is the minute size of the White Depthfade box in relation to my map.

I'm wanting to use the Large C-Shaped room, then have the "Floating Island" elements in there to show a difficult path up to "the surface".

I'd need to use close to 70 depthfade boxes to cover the area I need, and judging by how small an area a static light covers over 150 of them.

Given my map is already over half-budget on resources I'm struggling to see how I can get close to the effect I want and still have budget allowance left for the other areas that need detailing.

All that is really required is a "Lighting > Skylight" option adding to the Cave room set, and have lighting options that actually have an impact on the ambient light within a room.

I simply can not even begin to understand why all room sets don't have all lighting options built in as standard.

All The Best

Thought I would try this, as it's pretty interesting. And here is my result although I didn't spend anytime moving the items.

[IMG][/img]

Is that what you mean? I'm not to sure.

redneckronin · July 2013

antonkyle wrote: »

Is that what you mean? I'm not to sure.

Hard to tell from just that one picture to be honest.

But I was wanting it to be as near as possible to "daylight" in the room.

The brief play about I had would require at least 15 vertical "layers" of static-lights, with probably 25+ lights per "layer", just to have enough light in there to make it feel like "daylight" no matter where in the room the player is, in all three axes.

And to be honest I don't have that kind of budget flexibility left.

All The Best

artgod · July 2013

It's like that the premades are 'baked' in lighting. Do some google searches on it if you want... in 3d modelling that's sort of a way of making shadows a part of the 3d model's textures, so as to speed up rendering time... something very important in a video game.

nimmanu · July 2013

I think you may be best off just making it look like the sky is 'breaching' the interior here and there. Sometimes you have to kill your darlings in this kind of thing just as much as you do in writing.

Put in a fair number of those skylight looking details and let that do what it can to show that the top is frequently open to the sky. Either that, or pick one end of it and make it appear THAT end is open to the sky alone. You said you're climbing towards the surface, anyway, so pick one end and make that the surface exit.

I'm sorry, but I think you've established pretty clearly that the entire scope of it just isn't possible for your map. If you are unwilling to use a map transition, then you've kind of made your final choice on whether it will have indoor or outdoor lighting.

It's the hardest thing to do, to sacrifice our darlings on the altar of possibility. But something to keep in mind is that, since people don't see your mental image and know how the final result varies from the original intent... they will love it and be impressed by it on its own merits. So long as you contrast your work against your original desire, you won't be able to see it from an outside perspective.

Do what's possible and let the beauty be in the eye of the beholder.

redneckronin · July 2013

nimmanu wrote: »

Put in a fair number of those skylight looking details and let that do what it can to show that the top is frequently open to the sky.

Tried that.

The point of origin for the light is only a few feet above the "rays" anyway, so you get what looks like "floating" blobs of light with darkness above them.

nimmanu wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I think you've established pretty clearly that the entire scope of it just isn't possible for your map. If you are unwilling to use a map transition, then you've kind of made your final choice on whether it will have indoor or outdoor lighting./QUOTE]

Oh, I agree.

Having spent 3 -4 hours so far tinkering with different light options within a large cave room, I am close to certain that I can't get the effect I want within the scope I have given myself.

I was just wondering if anyone else had any ideas I hadn't yet tried.

All The Best

antonkyle · July 2013

'Having spent 3 -4 hours so far tinkering with different light options within a large cave room, I am close to certain that I can't get the effect I want within the scope I have given myself.'

I just sent you a pm worth a look before you give up

redneckronin · July 2013

antonkyle wrote: »

'Having spent 3 -4 hours so far tinkering with different light options within a large cave room, I am close to certain that I can't get the effect I want within the scope I have given myself.'

I just sent you a pm worth a look before you give up

Many, many thanks for that.

It is quite close to what I was after.

Was that the Large C-Shaped Room?

Will have another look / mess about and see if I can get what I want, in the budget I have.

Thanks again.

All The Best

antonkyle · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

Many, many thanks for that.

It is quite close to what I was after.

Was that the Large C-Shaped Room?

Will have another look / mess about and see if I can get what I want, in the budget I have.

Thanks again.

All The Best

It was one of the c shaped cave rooms yes. I also forgot to mention that's with no lighting.

nimmanu · July 2013

Share with the rest of us, jeez. No be stingy with the infos!

antonkyle · July 2013

nimmanu wrote: »

Share with the rest of us, jeez. No be stingy with the infos!

Redneckronin can copy and past the pm I sent him, I'm not very good at explaining things so I did it with a photo and I didn't save it.

sorry!

redneckronin · July 2013

antonkyle wrote: »

Redneckronin can copy and past the pm I sent him, I'm not very good at explaining things so I did it with a photo and I didn't save it.

sorry!

Will do.

Just for the record, I've just recreated exactly what you had, but used the Medium C-Shaped Room, I've had to use aroynd 17 of the Depthfade Boxes, and 15 of the rock platforms you used to scale up to that size.

Problem is there is no light at all in the room, in the way there was in yours. Apart from a glowing white ceiling the entire map is so dark as to be unable to see where you are going.

All The Best

nimmanu · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

Will do.

Just for the record, I've just recreated exactly what you had, but used the Medium C-Shaped Room, I've had to use aroynd 17 of the Depthfade Boxes, and 15 of the rock platforms you used to scale up to that size.

Problem is there is no light at all in the room, in the way there was in yours. Apart from a glowing white ceiling the entire map is so dark as to be unable to see where you are going.

All The Best

That darkness problem can be fixed using one of the preset interior lightings... shadowfell. While it's sort of an ugly yellow interior lighting, it is the least dark lighting and you can actually see the tops of caverns if you use that one.

redneckronin · July 2013

nimmanu wrote: »

That darkness problem can be fixed using one of the preset interior lightings... shadowfell. While it's sort of an ugly yellow interior lighting, it is the least dark lighting and you can actually see the tops of caverns if you use that one.

Yeah, but then it would apply that lighting scheme to my entire map, and I don't want that.

Rest of the map uses interior default.

All The Best

nimmanu · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

Yeah, but then it would apply that lighting scheme to my entire map, and I don't want that.

Rest of the map uses interior default.

All The Best

Aye. Only way to overcome it is to place white lighting here and there to look like puddles of light. Maybe try instead to make it nighttime and find a way to put up stars. Use the big round whirly shield thing to look like a moon... use black depth fades to look like a black sky, and some of those gold balls to look like stars or something.

Wish I could help more, sorry.

redneckronin · July 2013

No need to apologise.

All the advice, hints, help has been very useful.

I am converting a previously used map that ran to 1400+ budget so it can be revisited for a later part in the campaign. I have already stripped out some of the very budget intensive rooms, and left myself with the bare essential to do what I need to do with the story. That took me half way to budget that cap before I'd even added any of the new stuff.

It'll be tough to do what I want to do, but the advice so far has helped me get closer to achieving that.

So it is all much appreciated.

All The Best

antonkyle · July 2013

redneckronin wrote: »

Will do.

Just for the record, I've just recreated exactly what you had, but used the Medium C-Shaped Room, I've had to use aroynd 17 of the Depthfade Boxes, and 15 of the rock platforms you used to scale up to that size.

Problem is there is no light at all in the room, in the way there was in yours. Apart from a glowing white ceiling the entire map is so dark as to be unable to see where you are going.

All The Best

I just had another look, with the bigger c shaped cave, I had to lower the depthfade to 160 but it worked the same. I'm not sure about why it's not light though. Possibly a bug, try it with an empty cave see if that helps. Make sure you set it to no lights on the room lighting, that made a huge change.

antonkyle · July 2013

Ok, I found out what makes the difference between it being light and dark - In the edit backdrop I had exsterior fog spooky 1.

So that Depthfade (light blue), rocks to cover edges of the depthfade, lights off on the room lighting and then exterior fog. This is what will light the room. I tried a few and spooky is the best in my opinion for this.

redneckronin · July 2013

antonkyle wrote: »

Ok, I found out what makes the difference between it being light and dark - In the edit backdrop I had exsterior fog spooky 1.

So that Depthfade (light blue), rocks to cover edges of the depthfade, lights off on the room lighting and then exterior fog. This is what will light the room. I tried a few and spooky is the best in my opinion for this.

You sir, are a legend.

Many thanks.

All The Best

Need Advice From "Masters Of Light"

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