test content
  • Games
  • Social
  • Arc News
  • Support
  • Zen
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Request to the Developers on Dungeons

selaralselaral Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
edited July 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
With the boss leashing now in place, people are forced to deal with the large amount of adds that spawn and in fact..make some dungeons almost impossible to clear. I understand you want to try and make content last but using a mass spawn of adds is not the way to do it. I wanted to make this thread to post suggestions rather then just hate towards the developer(s) who put together the dungeon scene and give them proper feedback. With that note, anyone is welcomed to add feedback and I will place it with the first post (only if it is a real attempt at feedback and not just hate for the system)


Suggestions
  • If you wish to stick with add spawns, lower the amount that spawn and perhaps increase over time to what you got now (much like an enrage timer)
  • Set spawns to appear on a timer or on health %. Allowing them to constantly spawn will make it hard on people who pug or will force certain group makeups which pugs through the group finder have no choice in.
  • Lower add spawn health more.
  • Impose a cap on how many adds can be out at once, impose a longish timer before more adds are spawned. and give boss encounters a total number of adds - like say 50. After you wipe those out, that's it. So, a team could potentially force the boss to expend their entire stockpile of reinforcements.

    For bonus point, add a countdown as players kill off the adds.
Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
"Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
Post edited by selaral on

Comments

  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think they do believe that mass adds are the answer, otherwise they wouldn't use the strategy so much.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    I haven't gotten a chance to do dungeon since the changes but I know some bosses were outright impossible without pulling.

    The Fire Giant and Flamespiker Bosses in Karrundax are two of them. The entire floor goes red because of the sheer number of adds and there's no way you can even attempt to just clear the adds rather than kill the boss because of the spawn rates.

    I agree with removing the leash effects but now it may be time to rebalance the overwhelming amount of difficulty of the adds which encouraged leashing to begin with. I'm a huge fan of playing things as intended but even I leashed all of the bosses because even with organised groups I had a true horror of a time with certain mini-bosses.
  • selaralselaral Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ambisinisterr wrote: »
    I haven't gotten a chance to do dungeon since the changes but I know some bosses were outright impossible without pulling.

    The Fire Giant and Flamespiker Bosses in Karrundax are two of them. The entire floor goes red because of the sheer number of adds and there's no way you can even attempt to just clear the adds rather than kill the boss because of the spawn rates.

    I agree with removing the leash effects but now it may be time to rebalance the overwhelming amount of difficulty of the adds which encouraged leashing to begin with. I'm a huge fan of playing things as intended but even I leashed all of the bosses because even with organised groups I had a true horror of a time with certain mini-bosses.
    I would love to see rebalancing done. I want everyone to enjoy the game. As you said, those two bosses are just silly due to all of the red ground. Melee are pretty much worthless in the fight which just leaves the Control Wizard to do everything. Even then, the ranged adds are able to get to them so all in all with a group full of CWs and a Cleric, it will just seemingly be a long and painful death.
    Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
    "Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ambisinisterr wrote: »
    I haven't gotten a chance to do dungeon since the changes but I know some bosses were outright impossible without pulling.

    The Fire Giant and Flamespiker Bosses in Karrundax are two of them. The entire floor goes red because of the sheer number of adds and there's no way you can even attempt to just clear the adds rather than kill the boss because of the spawn rates.

    I agree with removing the leash effects but now it may be time to rebalance the overwhelming amount of difficulty of the adds which encouraged leashing to begin with. I'm a huge fan of playing things as intended but even I leashed all of the bosses because even with organised groups I had a true horror of a time with certain mini-bosses.

    I'm so happy my Timeless gauntlets finally dropped from Karrun just before the patch. I certainly won't be running Karrun for a while with the bosses leashed to their endless AOE spamming adds.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • lionmaruu0lionmaruu0 Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Seems a pretty good moment to really stop this stupid decision on all those adds in every fight.
    The fact is, the exploiters are the only ones getting items this way because they will always find a way to exploit the system, and the rest of us just can’t get a team of friends and do some dungeons, it’s almost impossible even if you are geared with some T1 gear and know how to play.

    I want to play with my friends, not to grind with exploiters, this game is doing really badly to keep people with money interested in playing the game, sometimes I think the design choice here is:
    “Let’s make everything so hard that people will have to spend lots of AD in enchants and t2 gear and stone/cat BEFORE starting to play t1” ... and that’s not enjoyable, to say the least...

    I know that with a team with experienced people we can clear dungeons on this state (I have been clearing most of them with one or another team) but I don’t have 4 hardcore players to play with me and I am not this kind of player, I like to clear content, not to skip/exploit trough it...

    And if you queue for random group, God help your poor soul...

    Please cryptic , make dungeons at least doable to your more casual players (holy HAMSTER at least t1) or it’s really hard to keep playing since all the zones are bellow level 60 and offer no replay value AND foundries don’t even drop potions or identify scrolls anymore, much less some interesting incentive to spend more than 1 hour on them.

    Still love the game and will still buy things that seems nice like companions and mounts and services like character slots and respec tokens but please make the game worth my little gaming time.

    (sorry about my English not my first language)
  • deknodekno Member Posts: 181 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    u could ask the designers, but developers are the ones who rule the return of the job, and if people can bug their way out a dungeon grabbing the loot then designers will get a lesson from the developers to design a better profit for them.


    in any case, those people who design stuff today are not in charge when they are under a developer, and i dont think the designers has anything to say in it. they have probably been forced to fix the loop holes so that people end up spending more money on the game thinking things will get easier, we who play it knows different, probably the designers too.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Less adds means less crowd control. Remove some of them and (good) CWs will have a hard time to charge singularity. I'm serious. The more adds the better. It makes permastunning them achievable. I play a DC and a CW and i always want a lot of adds near me just to spam the daily. This idea may sound good if you find the game too hard, but actually, it will have the opposite effect.

    I suggest you start thinking to another build if you play a support class, or learn to dodge red when you're a dps.

    And yes, the first bosses in karrundax are doable. There are strats and tricks to make them easier. Complaining that it's too hard after one run to try is a bit pointless. Everyone will need time to adapt. Found a very efficient strat for the first boss, and you can zerg the second one too, if you don't have any other idea.

    Just give it time. Not finding the optimal way to kill a boss after one run isn't that dramatic.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    It's not so much the amount of adds...

    But the difficulty in killing them...and as my post specified the red AoE hell some of the adds generate.
    Plus while I love Arcane Singularity it's a problem to simply make dungeon rely on Arcane Singularity. It should help but not be a requirement.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ambisinisterr wrote: »
    It's not so much the amount of adds...

    But the difficulty in killing them...and as my post specified the red AoE hell some of the adds generate.
    Plus while I love Arcane Singularity it's a problem to simply make dungeon rely on Arcane Singularity. It should help but not be a requirement.

    Well adds are really not an issue for the first boss. I suggest you take some time to study the arena before your next try. You may find something interesting. :)
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Impose a cap on how many adds can be out at once, impose a longish timer before more adds are spawned, and give boss encounters a total number of adds - like say 50. After you wipe those out, that's it. So, a team could potentially force the boss to expend their entire stockpile of reinforcements.

    For bonus point, add a countdown as players kill off the adds.
    <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::>
    "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
    Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
  • selaralselaral Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Well adds are really not an issue for the first boss. I suggest you take some time to study the arena before your next try. You may find something interesting. :)
    If you would be so kind as to help others out that would be amazing. Tell us this plan you have for the first boss and others may test and follow. Hinting only makes people believe you are only egging them on.
    Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
    "Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    selaral wrote: »
    If you would be so kind as to help others out that would be amazing. Tell us this plan you have for the first boss and others may test and follow. Hinting only makes people believe you are only egging them on.
    It's probably BIS gear, health stones and brute force.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • chidy1776chidy1776 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I agree with op and im thankfull to see some actually constructive feedback. In the upcing malabog castle the bosses are supposed t have more mechqnicsbut until then id like to see some changes. Personally id like to see bosses that just summon a finite number of adds that u have to clear through, or like others have stated, a certain number based on time and or boss hp. Also i wanted to share that last night i was running FH with a group of guildies and we found that on any of the fights we could kill adds faster than they could spawn. Granted were almost all T2 geared but it was so much more fun then kiting adds around.
    Paul 60 guardian fighter on mindflayer.

    Rising Star, fun friendly, community focused guild on mindflayer. We strive to help each other and enjoy the game together. Talk to me for info, or feel free to check and join our community at risingstarneverwinter.enjin.com
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    tang56 wrote: »
    It's probably BIS gear, health stones and brute force.

    Did it with a 9k GS team with my 10k CW without even a full T2 set. No stones. No scrolls. But i guess you're just trolling... It was a guild run and TBH the healer was really incompetent. :rolleyes: My plan is still to farm gloves for a week or so, then, i'll spill the beans if no one else gives the strat before..
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    selaral wrote: »
    If you would be so kind as to help others out that would be amazing. Tell us this plan you have for the first boss and others may test and follow. Hinting only makes people believe you are only egging them on.

    I believe he is referring to pushing them off the ledge.
    Works...but like Arcane Singularity the game shouldn't revolve around it. :p
    chidy1776 wrote: »
    I agree with op and im thankfull to see some actually constructive feedback. In the upcing malabog castle the bosses are supposed t have more mechqnicsbut until then id like to see some changes. Personally id like to see bosses that just summon a finite number of adds that u have to clear through, or like others have stated, a certain number based on time and or boss hp. Also i wanted to share that last night i was running FH with a group of guildies and we found that on any of the fights we could kill adds faster than they could spawn. Granted were almost all T2 geared but it was so much more fun then kiting adds around.

    Finite Adds would add a bit more hope.
    A bit of consistency would be nice too. Some bosses do spawn mobs based on their health and others spawn adds based on how many mobs you had killed.

    If players could at least strategies around add triggers it would be nice but right each boss seems to have a different trigger to spawn adds.
  • selaralselaral Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Did it with a 9k GS team with my 10k CW without even a full T2 set. No stones. No scrolls. But i guess you're just trolling... It was a guild run and TBH the healer was really incompetent. :rolleyes: My plan is still to farm gloves for a week or so, then, i'll spill the beans if no one else gives the strat before..
    In truth I don't see how that is going to help anyone. You are farming the gloves for yourself..understandable, or so I hope. I would rather someone who says they know how something is supposed to be done explains it rather then as I said 'egg people on'. So if someone who wishes to actually explain how to defeat the boss wishes to post, I will gladly add it to the front page (And this means without a full group of CW's)
    I believe he is referring to pushing them off the ledge.
    Works...but like Arcane Singularity the game shouldn't revolve around it.
    I agree, it shouldn't.
    Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
    "Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    bioshrike wrote: »
    Impose a cap on how many adds can be out at once, impose a longish timer before more adds are spawned, and give boss encounters a total number of adds - like say 50. After you wipe those out, that's it. So, a team could potentially force the boss to expend their entire stockpile of reinforcements.

    For bonus point, add a countdown as players kill off the adds.

    I like this infinite ads is not a fun mechanic and just gets tedious. Also having them spawn at a percentage of boss health like for the mad dragon is a good idea. Also might encourage more strategy rather then burn the boss as fast as possible.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited July 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited July 2013
    verdonix1 wrote: »
    I am wondering why, pushing mobs off a ledge is NOT an "exploit", but making a boss run away from said mobs to kill it and then them separately IS an exploit??


    Mysteries of the universe .....

    Simply put, players and creatures falling off ledges to their death is intended.
    Players luring bosses to not spawn adds is not.

    Now whether pushing mobs off ledges is too easy or hard...well that's another matter altogether. You may have noticed certain locations they have worked to make pushing mobs off ledges harder.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited July 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • selaralselaral Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ambisinisterr wrote: »
    Simply put, players and creatures falling off ledges to their death is intended.
    Players luring bosses to not spawn adds is not.

    Now whether pushing mobs off ledges is too easy or hard...well that's another matter altogether. You may have noticed certain locations they have worked to make pushing mobs off ledges harder.
    They placed a full circle of walls around the platform for the spider temple boss as well as filled in the hole. So it is mixed signals at this point.
    Multiple Personas, only 'One' me
    "Why should one devolve themselves to try and entertain those of a lesser mindset around them?"
  • nyghomanyghoma Member Posts: 546 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Unfortunately, spawning adds as a boss mechanic is just the cheap and lazy way for developers to handle a fight. It's surprising with the volumes of MMOs to fall back on, that they would result to such a baseline mentality.
    tol-banner.png

    NW-DT4OV7EXH


    Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Sign In or Register to comment.