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Unstoppable action vs steely defense vs toughness and armor specialization
aierrs
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 60
Hi, I am a destroyer build gwf. I am thinking of re-speccing to more HP to get more defense and uptime.
I am a human as well. The thing is, I used to take 5/5 unstoppable action and 5/5 steely defense.
I got around 2.2k defense, which translate to 440 power/25 = 17.6 increase in dmg, or near to that.
Sooooo should I give up steely defense or unstoppable action for Toughness and Armor specialization?
Another reason why I want to respec is because I am thinking of going destroyer + weapon master feat instead of blitz during single boss fights like CN/ Spellplague. Its not often.. but 12% is significant.
This is what I am thinking:
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13ilu3i:60000:bzu51:b0000&h=1
Also, is focused destroyer > Relentless fury or battle awareness considering I almost always use roar?
Battle awareness gives me 1.3k power every time I use slam. That's translated to 51 damage.
Attached is my stats details, feats and the most often used skills are Roar, IBS, Flourish.
Also a parse of what I normally use till date. This parse is everything that I have played for 4-5 days in general. Not the best parse, but just for general information.
By the way, anyone knows what does Flank means? Is it the Blitz Steel's shadow attack? but then in the parse, its stated there is a Blitz Steel damage.
I am a human as well. The thing is, I used to take 5/5 unstoppable action and 5/5 steely defense.
I got around 2.2k defense, which translate to 440 power/25 = 17.6 increase in dmg, or near to that.
Sooooo should I give up steely defense or unstoppable action for Toughness and Armor specialization?
Another reason why I want to respec is because I am thinking of going destroyer + weapon master feat instead of blitz during single boss fights like CN/ Spellplague. Its not often.. but 12% is significant.
This is what I am thinking:
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13ilu3i:60000:bzu51:b0000&h=1
Also, is focused destroyer > Relentless fury or battle awareness considering I almost always use roar?
Battle awareness gives me 1.3k power every time I use slam. That's translated to 51 damage.
Attached is my stats details, feats and the most often used skills are Roar, IBS, Flourish.
Also a parse of what I normally use till date. This parse is everything that I have played for 4-5 days in general. Not the best parse, but just for general information.
By the way, anyone knows what does Flank means? Is it the Blitz Steel's shadow attack? but then in the parse, its stated there is a Blitz Steel damage.
Post edited by aierrs on
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Points in Relentless Battle fury or Battle Awareness is better than Focused Destroyer (5 points for 25% chance to gain a stack of destroyer is just bad).
I would use this build for Destroyer:
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13kl33i:60000:bzuu1:b0000&h=1
You can put points into Battle Awareness insted of Disciple of War if you wish.
Only if you have answers for all of that can I math the value of Unstoppable Action.
Armor Specilization will give you way more Defense than Steely Defense. I actually worked this out for someone else yesterday:
At 1463 Defense, Armor Specialization gives the equivalent of 784 defense.
At 1463 Defense Steely Defense is the equivalent of 293 power.
You have more Defense than this, but that just widens the gap.
Thanks for the feedback.
Disciple of war gives me 750 Arpen at the moment with a 3k recovery. so I am thinking its actually quite significant.
The reason why I want to take Focus Destroyer is because I was thinking of going Destroyer + Weapon Master passive...
I didn't take con focus because I am already close to 22-24% arpen.
On 2nd thoughts.. if I take con focus... I may be able to skip Discipline of war as its give 2.4% of arpen and that will also give me more hp.
Need to work out the exact maths..
Hi Freehugs I have read a lot of your threads with detail. Thanks for helping me out. I have posted a screenshot of my stats and general parse of 2-4days of fighting so that its easier for people to give advice since they know what it will be based on.
Basically I reached the "optimized" stats for most stats. Looking forward for more of your advice.
Focused Destroyer is WAY better. In fact I would say a Destroyer specced GWF without this feat is not a "Destroyer" :P
Whether you are using SS or WMS/WS it is very easy to get the 3 stacks up. This feat adds a flat 12% damage on bosses or elites. Neither of the other Feats you mentioned would add that much. Also once you have the 3stacks which only takes maybe 2 rounds of SS on a single target, they stay up as long as you are attacking. So 5 points is TOTALLY worth 12% extra damage.
That's what I use while sometimes swapping WM out for Bravery when more tank is needed. Before I got my Vorpal I was using steel blitz but now I can't pass up the flat 10% crit rate boost from WM. It looks like you have Lightning so I would guess Steel Blitz is going to be your best option for more procs.
I really like Focus destroyer for boss killing and pvp, though. Without it Weapon Master would be the only single target offensive class feature we have (Steadfast Det. aside). With FD, pushing 50% crit rate, 3k+ recovery, and Vorpal, I swear I'm doing equivalent single target damage of any middle of the road TR. I can solo down SP final boss surprisingly quick. Which is exactly what I wanted out of this build as well as top end AOE PvE DPS and good PvP.
Thanks copti for your feedback. Can I tap on your expertise more?
Do you run with blitz + weapon master and swap destroyer + weapon master? Or pure destroyer+ steel blitz?
Also do you think 4 points will be good enough? 20%? I have a cleric and some feats only need 2 points for it to proc almost permanently.
Infact with a flourish. I would say maybe 15% is good enough uptime?
Also how long it takes before the buff falls off?
Hi evo, lightning gives really good dps for aoe. But it pulls trash mob when I have to solo bosses like cn. I am contemplating taking 2 weapon, 1 for lightning and 1 for vorpal. But abit expensive. Lol.
I think we are very similar in built, I have arnd 40-50 crit with weapon master as well. But I read somewhere that lightning still gives much better dps than vorpal in most situation for gwf.
First step is to respec as I find my built in effecient. This built lasted me since I start from lvl1. Time to say goodbye to it.
Very expensive, indeed. I've also heard that Lightning is the best for overall dungeon DPS, particularly at greater and perfect level with the chain lightning. But I believe the best for PvP and single target boss killing has got to be Vorpal (while still being good for AoE). These are things I really wanted so that's why I ended up choosing Vorp over Lightning. I was really debating between the two. Also, reading about the range on the lighting helped make my decision, 70` range sounds like I could get you into some trouble.
That's useful but I still need a sense of the uptime on Unstoppable with a Destroyer spec to determine the worth of Unstoppable Action. I know it depends on how much you get hit, but there has to be an average.
Flank is Combat Advantage damage, the bonus you get while standing on the opposite side of an enemy to another player or companion.
I figure you're building up to 100% AP every ~31 seconds based on the info you've posted.
At 50% Uptime for Unstoppable, which is probably way more than you're getting, Unstoppable Action is a 2.1% damage gain.
Surprisingly weak.
How did you get the 2.1% dmg gain info?
Actually, I am not sure about you guys, but I often save my encounters for after-unstoppable. Reason being to regain determination for unstoppable asap by clearing my encounters right after my unstoppable ends. Its rather counter intuitive but it works for me especially roar. It lets me stay in unstoppable mode for a long time if there is alot of mobs.
Actually.. let me go back and check my parser to see if it shows how much damage I take on average... I think I saw that somewhere. But normally I am the unmovable unless there is a gf in the team.
Yup, thanks for the catch. Fixed. Was at the dentist with the tablet when I wrote this. :P
In PvE I have Destroyer slotted all the time. On Trash I slot blitz. On boss I slot Weapon Master. If I am solo tanking I slot Bravery.
In PvP I go with WM + Bravery. I usually just do GG PvP these days, so not finding real use with Steel Defense/Steel Grace.
Not sure about putting less than 5points in. Flourish does not put multiple stacks of a buff/debuff. It still counts as one attack for that purpose. The buff lasts 3 seconds, but every stack refreshes the duration. So you will pretty much have the 3x stacks throughout the entire time you are fighting. That's what makes it a MUST have feat and a MUST have feature slotted.
Actually, slotting Roar + Daring Shout + whatever, I am more than 50% uptime for Unstoppable. That's standing by the 3 dummies, roar on 2 targets then DS standing in the middle. Roar+DS on the dummies is about 40% determination, 3rd encounter or 1 round of WM gets me to Unstoppable, and by the time it's lapsed, Roar has already been off cooldown for 2sec and DS just about ready for a non-stop rotation of the above.
So in combat with 3+ mobs it would even be more and that is not counting getting hit at all.
That said, I always had my doubts about Unstoppable Action myself. The next time I respec I believe I will skip it. That's mainly because most of the time I have Roar and Daring Shout slotted, so that's two encounters I don't even use while in Unstoppable. Also looking at the AP gain from At-Wills during unstoppable, it is so minuscule I want to say it probably is not even affected by Unstoppable Action and that this small gain is purely from Destroyer's Purpose.
I decided to go ahead and re-spec so that I can view the changes and the effects.
So first thing I observe is:
before
after
If you see the before and after:
The power lost due to Steely defense is correct. Around 440 based on my 2.2k defense.
The arpen lost due to Discipline of War is incorrect. I have 2981 recovery. 25% of it should be 745~. Instead I have 1053 still which means my actual arpen lost is only 577? I wonder why.
I then added 3 points in toughness, everything is ok. it scale accordingly.
Follow by Endless Assault. No problem.
And then, I decided I will go for Constitution Focus based on this thinking:
3 points @ 15% of 15 CON is 2.4% arpen + hp
Based on this thread's
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?358391-Con-(GWF)-and-Dex-(GF)-are-now-addative-to-Armor-Penetration
it is basically 1854-1646 = 208 arpen points
plus 2.4% hp of my hp at this point at 23643 = 567.
whereas 3 points in Steely Defense at 2.2k Defense is:
2246 x 12% = 269.52 power.
Unfortunately, this is not true.
After adding 3 points, my hp is now
23957 - 23643 (original hp before adding 3 points) = 314hp.
Regarding the additional 2.4% arpen, I cannot find any indication at all whether this is working.
I also start adding Discipline of War. Based on a recovery of 2981... I added 1 point. And it only add 116 arpen which works out to be around 4% of my recovery. Definitely something wrong here.
Now to Focused Destroyer. I make another interesting observation.
If I slot Destroyer without Focused Destroyer, the stack of buff will fall off 3 sec after I stop attacking >=3 dummies. Even if I attack 1 dummy, it will still fall off.
BUT with 1 point in Focused Destroyer, the stack of buff will refresh as long as you hit something. On top of that, it is still a 100% stack once you attack >= 3.
I did some small timer test on 15%-25% focused destroyer. Unfortunately, you need 5 points to get reliable stack in 20 seconds.
2pc/2pc avatar/vigilant is considered by most as the best setup.
To fully utilize the avatar set, I feel that punishing charge is needed to maintain the stack. its very tedious to maintain full stack especially if you need to keep sprinting arnd in red circles.
More offensive stats, better defensive stats (HP vs Regen& a bit of defence).
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
If you are lacking Crit then sure. Otherwise I personally would opt for the nice boost of Recovery over 1800hp. And I don't agree that HP is better than Regen+Defense (unless you are strictly referring to HP+Teneb PvP build). If you are feated with Disciple of War, Vigilant is even better.
Is it so? But the 2pc bonus was what turns me off... I will go take a 2nd look at the stats vs vigilant tho. Thanks.