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kondesito
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ok its enchant time!, what enchant do you recomend?! 
Armorpen or tenebrous? Discuss.
Armorpen or tenebrous? Discuss. Post edited by kondesito on
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I highly recommend either recovery, or tenebrous for pve. tenebrous is more for up front burst, but they arent bad in pve either. I am always either 1st or 2nd damage with full greater tenebrous.
tenebrous in pvp is just godly tho. there is no alternative in my opinion.
Armor Pen may get devalued by the plethora of other debuffs, but that doesn't make it bad in comparison to other stats. ArP is extremely cheap as a rating (~1% ArP per 100 points) compared to other ratings, so even with the devaluing it is highly efficient to stack. There are ICD's on Tenebrous enchants, and I have yet to see any dungeon runs where they have accounted for more than 4.5% of a players total damage (using 6 of them). Replacing those 6 enchants with 6 rank 7 dark enchants is worth 1110 ArP, or roughly 10% penetration. Even against targets with -100% mitigation already, that's still worth a 5% damage increase. If you have any parses showing Tenebrous doing more damage, I'd love to see them.
Armor Pen is pretty much nailed down - there are lots of informative posts floating around in the Rogue and Fighter forums, as well as the general and combat tactics forums.
Tenebrous is more mysterious. Some people swear by it, but I've just not seen any hard data to back up those claims. I've seen PVP logs where Tenebrous enchants account for over 20% of the total damage dealt by the player, but this is due to the breaks in fights allowing the ICD's to frequently be reset for the next battle. In PVE parses I've only seen parses where it's totaled 3-4% total damage. It would probably be stronger in single target, but with the amount of AOE in dungeons it doesn't seem worth it to me.
Armor Pen is still good in PVP, just not better than Tenebrous. 20% armor pen may grant more than 20% damage, but you can only consider the tradeoff of what you will gain by replacing the Tenebrous enchants. There is a maximum of 7? offensive slots in your gear (weapon, offhand, neck, 2x ring, belt, and shirt iirc). If you use rank 7 enchants that's worth 1295 armor pen or about 13% penetration. Against a sufficiently high defense target that could result in more than 20% damage gain, but it's not likely that many people have high enough defenses for that to happen.
More importantly though, there are 2 reasons Tenebrous is better. 1) It's up front burst damage which is often far more important in PVP than sustained damage. 2) Part of the reason Tenebrous falls off in PVE is because of the tons of AOE. The ICD for Tenebrous isn't that high which makes it very strong for single target.
Not to mention you've probably already debuffed your target with at least one RoE and 1-3 stacks of Plaguefire if you're doing it right. Which means ArPen is going to be less valuable.
That's because they were lesser enchants. Use greaters and you will get a HUGE dps boost.
I need to look up the research rogues did on their forums about it.
I'd definitely be interested in hearing it. I feel like a broken record, but so far we have very, very little data about ArPen that isn't conjecture or based on dummies
Maybe I'll go get some cheapo blue/green gear and see if I can do some testing. Does anyone have any suggestions on some decent mobs with a lot of health?
Personally I was thinking on making a "quick" foundry level that I can publish with some easily accessible mobs to test spells on them.
That's actually a great idea - how about the biggest slowest hulks you can find, one at a time? How long does that take to create?
Armor penetration does not reduce armor beyond 0% and further arpen is lost. As far as I can tell, light mobs like archers have around 13% damage reduction (sharpshooters in frozen heart) but value depends on mob type.
For pure dps purpose armor pen is way better than crit, power or recovery (assuming you stack it). I don't know about Tenebrous, I never tried.
First of all, they are independent of each other. Also it is not advised to stack more than 2200ArP. But even 1500Arp is a huge dps gain.
Second how often does one slot RoE? You rarely ever need it, and that's only when you are on boss duty. 90% of the t1/t2 content a CW is on adds.
Third, the majority of CWs arent Thaumaturge specced so there goes the CoI.
4th, most of the time, clearing a dungeon, you're running in and blasting AoE. Why waste time setting up your debuffs first or positioning yourself in the right spot etc...Much more convenient to have a built enough damage resistance debuffer that is up 100% of the time on EVERYTHING that you hit, 360degrees around you.