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Frustrated... help?
mievh
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 106 Bounty Hunter
Hello everyone. You might remember me from the "Just dinged 60" thread, or the "Auction House Filtering Workaround".
Let me say first and foremost that English is not my native language (it's Spanish, I'm from Argentina), so I apologize in advance for any errors in spelling, grammar, or the language in general.
I need help. I'm very frustrated with my Divine Cleric. I don't know what to do to avoid half the dungeon aggroing on me and hitting me so hard I sometimes don't last 1 or 3 seconds in melee. My gearscore is around 8600, I'm level 60.
I don't know whether to continue playing, roll another class, or just be done with the game.
I don't know if I should spend what little ZEN I have to buy a Respec Token, in fear Cryptic would change the Powers and make my new choices obsolete, and being forced to pay again to Respec Again.
In PvP, Rogues **** me in a heartbeat. They knock me over and drop me from 100% to 0% in less than 3 seconds, and I can't escape. Sure, I can do things in PvP and it's mostly fun when the enemy Rogues aren't targeting me in each and every opportunity. So far it's been manageable and occasionally fun, but PvP has never been my focus on this game, nor many others.
I don't like to PvP much.
In PvE, I get insulted sometimes because all the mobs aggro me and kill me or leave me in 10% HP, when the others happily rest at 100% HP, thanks to whatever heal I was able to place. I have to stop to attack enemies to build Divinity and drop a Forgemaster's Flame, an Astral Shield, or build my Action Points to cast Hallowed Ground. It's amazingly frustrating for me topping the "Damage Taken" meters and "Healing Done" meters at the same time. It's very stressful having to dodge 90% of the room's enemies while trying to squeeze a heal.
Yes, I do want a challenge while healing. Which skill to use, dodge enemies' AoE attacks, topping off a particular member or knowing which spell is the right for the job... I don't mind having to handle the occasional mob, or even a pack, it's part of the game. But each and every ad on the room insta-targeting me, just after they spawned, with no spells cast or even placed? No, something is very wrong. Or I'm doing things horribly wrong.
I like to PvE.
While leveling, I've spent points in Powers / Feats I know regret, now knowing that Threat-reducing feats and powers plainly don't work. I feel so frustrated knowing that I have to pay money to correct those mistakes, my mistakes, made due to my ignorance of the game's problems.
I know many players expressed their concern about the threat issues, both Clerics and Guardian Fighters. I also know that Cryptic answered, basically, that they know about it, that it's complicated, and that they don't have any plans about fixing it anytime soon (link here).
I post it here because I don't know where else to do it. The Cleric community in this game so far has been the most helpful in my opinion, and you guys gave my very useful tips in all your posts. That's the reason I know humbly and honestly ask you: what do you think I should do?
Should I spend the ZEN I've accumulated to respec, knowing that when (or if) threat gets fixed, I'll have to pay money again to respec again?
Will that change dramatically (or at least noticeably) how I'm able to run dungeons?
Should I drop out of the game up until the threat issues are fixed, and some of the Cleric skills currently bugged or misinformed are fixed?
Should I just endure the game as it's know, enduring the insults I receive in dungeon runs (my favorite activity), and the frustration I get while the group tunnel-visions attacking the boss, forgetting about the fact that I'm doing my best to keep them alive?
Should I think something else?
I know this won't matter much, but I'm a fairly skilled player. It's not like this is my first MMO. I know about how the system works, I know these kind of F2P games do need something of a revenue to keep themselves afloat, I'm no naive in the matter. But I don't think I'm doing something terribly wrong. I'm not the best player, nor ever will be... but something in the game is broken, and the developer's attitude towards it it's something I've never seen before.
Thanks a lot for any comments you might wish to post, and for any insight. I am sorry if my rant was too long. I like the game, I've always been fan of the Forgotten Realms setting (I've been a Dungeon Master for many years now, making campaigns in Forgotten Realms, most of them based in Neverwinter).
Thanks again in advance, and have a good day!
PS: I'm using Sunburst, Forgemaster's Flame and Astral Shield in PvE. Chains of Light, Forgemaster's Flame and Astral Shield in PvP. Sacred Flame and Astral Seal in both settings.
Let me say first and foremost that English is not my native language (it's Spanish, I'm from Argentina), so I apologize in advance for any errors in spelling, grammar, or the language in general.
I need help. I'm very frustrated with my Divine Cleric. I don't know what to do to avoid half the dungeon aggroing on me and hitting me so hard I sometimes don't last 1 or 3 seconds in melee. My gearscore is around 8600, I'm level 60.
I don't know whether to continue playing, roll another class, or just be done with the game.
I don't know if I should spend what little ZEN I have to buy a Respec Token, in fear Cryptic would change the Powers and make my new choices obsolete, and being forced to pay again to Respec Again.
In PvP, Rogues **** me in a heartbeat. They knock me over and drop me from 100% to 0% in less than 3 seconds, and I can't escape. Sure, I can do things in PvP and it's mostly fun when the enemy Rogues aren't targeting me in each and every opportunity. So far it's been manageable and occasionally fun, but PvP has never been my focus on this game, nor many others.
I don't like to PvP much.
In PvE, I get insulted sometimes because all the mobs aggro me and kill me or leave me in 10% HP, when the others happily rest at 100% HP, thanks to whatever heal I was able to place. I have to stop to attack enemies to build Divinity and drop a Forgemaster's Flame, an Astral Shield, or build my Action Points to cast Hallowed Ground. It's amazingly frustrating for me topping the "Damage Taken" meters and "Healing Done" meters at the same time. It's very stressful having to dodge 90% of the room's enemies while trying to squeeze a heal.
Yes, I do want a challenge while healing. Which skill to use, dodge enemies' AoE attacks, topping off a particular member or knowing which spell is the right for the job... I don't mind having to handle the occasional mob, or even a pack, it's part of the game. But each and every ad on the room insta-targeting me, just after they spawned, with no spells cast or even placed? No, something is very wrong. Or I'm doing things horribly wrong.
I like to PvE.
While leveling, I've spent points in Powers / Feats I know regret, now knowing that Threat-reducing feats and powers plainly don't work. I feel so frustrated knowing that I have to pay money to correct those mistakes, my mistakes, made due to my ignorance of the game's problems.
I know many players expressed their concern about the threat issues, both Clerics and Guardian Fighters. I also know that Cryptic answered, basically, that they know about it, that it's complicated, and that they don't have any plans about fixing it anytime soon (link here).
I post it here because I don't know where else to do it. The Cleric community in this game so far has been the most helpful in my opinion, and you guys gave my very useful tips in all your posts. That's the reason I know humbly and honestly ask you: what do you think I should do?
Should I spend the ZEN I've accumulated to respec, knowing that when (or if) threat gets fixed, I'll have to pay money again to respec again?
Will that change dramatically (or at least noticeably) how I'm able to run dungeons?
Should I drop out of the game up until the threat issues are fixed, and some of the Cleric skills currently bugged or misinformed are fixed?
Should I just endure the game as it's know, enduring the insults I receive in dungeon runs (my favorite activity), and the frustration I get while the group tunnel-visions attacking the boss, forgetting about the fact that I'm doing my best to keep them alive?
Should I think something else?
I know this won't matter much, but I'm a fairly skilled player. It's not like this is my first MMO. I know about how the system works, I know these kind of F2P games do need something of a revenue to keep themselves afloat, I'm no naive in the matter. But I don't think I'm doing something terribly wrong. I'm not the best player, nor ever will be... but something in the game is broken, and the developer's attitude towards it it's something I've never seen before.
Thanks a lot for any comments you might wish to post, and for any insight. I am sorry if my rant was too long. I like the game, I've always been fan of the Forgotten Realms setting (I've been a Dungeon Master for many years now, making campaigns in Forgotten Realms, most of them based in Neverwinter).
Thanks again in advance, and have a good day!
PS: I'm using Sunburst, Forgemaster's Flame and Astral Shield in PvE. Chains of Light, Forgemaster's Flame and Astral Shield in PvP. Sacred Flame and Astral Seal in both settings.
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.
Post edited by mievh on
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-- Use Brand of the Sun / Astral Seal as your at will powers in PVE. You will do more damage and gain more DP while still being able to run around (It's a DOT). My Brand of the Sun does over 4k damage with just one cast and it's even more if it crits since all ticks of the DOT will also crit.
-- Do you have Ethereal Boon in your paragon tree? I am 5/5 Righteous Rage of Tempus and 3/5 Ethereal Boon. This allows for faster DP building, and has the advantage of allowing you to build DP even when you're out of combat.
-- Never cast Astral Shield without DP. I know this should not need saying, but when grouped up with a lot of other clerics I notice yellow circles on the ground way too much.
Those are the main things I can point out. I am trying to learn all this stuff too as I run T2 content repeatedly for gear that doesn't want to drop for me.
I don't remember if I have Ethereal Boon, but even if I don't, I'll have to pay to get it, which translates in the doubts I've mentioned before... I'm very scared of paying for that and then having to pay again.
Thanks for the tips! Will try Brand of the Sun.
Use your shift mechanic non stop , use hp pots - astral shield on cd ( it regenerates it doesn't heal directly so you dont get as much aggro ) , also learn the spawn locations of the mobs in the dungeons that you're running & try not to body pull them . That's about it .
EDIT : There is nothing like one or two good control wizards in your group to control the monsters , while you're happily healing your buddies .
When I ran a few epics with two clerics, though, everything went perfectly smooth. One of us could always keep our regen out, lend a hand when adds were going crazy, and keep everyone topped off. I'd recommend using 2 clerics if you don't want to pull your hair out during every single run. I'm only logging on my cleric to run professions and help my friends level until something gets fixed, though. I'm just not enjoying it.
Here's the problem: it's simply not fun to play a cleric in the current build. (5 man encounters anyways)
Clearly, that's my opinion. I had a pretty easy time soloing to 60, and I find the class pretty fun. I'm sure my build could be more optimized, and a lot of things could be tweaked, but running an instance is currently more of a stressful chore for me, while my GWF friend is able to have a "fun" time. I'd like to have a bit of the fun as well! Is that too much to ask?
Aggo goes to the cleric. Accept this and instead of throwing your hands up in surrender, do what YOU can to keep yourself alive.
Most stats are pretty meh, dont really worry about them. Recovery and Defence are the 2 most important stats for a cleric in the games current state, IMO of course.
Recovery allows you cast your encounters faster and build AP faster. Defence stops you getting insta-gibbed. Other stats really dont do a great deal for us. Power does improve healing / Damage somewhat, but the conversion rate is very lackluster. Only advantage of power is no apparent DR (Diminished Returns). Crit is ok for damage, healing based on crit is always a bad plan though. Armor Pen is worthless unless your building a DPS spec, we cast at wills to gain DP and put seal on mobs, not to kill them. Thats the DPS's job. Movement is nice, Utility slots should always have movement in them. Lifesteal, debatable. Regen is nice, but you really have to stack it to make any real impact, Unspecified has a post on regen clerics you may wanna look over. I dont go that way, but the build is interesting.
So knowing this, stack recovery and defence. Recovery until your Astral shield is at or below 15s reuse, then defence. Currently I run near 3000 defence, near 40% flat mitigation. It makes a HUGE difference.
Duck and weave. Stay mobile. Most heavy hits come from slow attacks with drawn out animations. Move frequently even if your not currently taking damage. Forcing mobs to constantly reposition will mitigate more damage than anything else. Learn which splats are BAD splats and which splats are MEH splats. Bad splats - Heavy damage, Knock downs, Stuns ... need to be avoided. DPS can stand in a stun, they dont have 20 adds on them, we cant. Meh splats we can stand in, they do little or moderate damage that can be healed / mitigated to such a degree we dont care.
Dont slide out of every splat, learn which ones you must avoid, and which ones are nice to avoid.
Make friends with a good CW. A good CW looking out for you is worth more than anything else to a cleric. A good CW will see when your in trouble and assist you, be it with a black hole, Steal time, knockback, Lift ... anything they do to buy you time is epic. A bad CW will totally ignore you b/c he has the dmg meter open and should be removed from your friend list right away.
Hope my tips help somewhat, dont get discouraged, Cryptic is apparently *addressing* the issues with threat / etc, but until they do ... adapt and over come !!
<Edit> one other tip. Use Hallowed Ground and Divine Armor as your dailys. If your upto your neck in it and getting little (or ineffective) support form your team, use Divine Armor to give yourself (and the group) a large temp HP pool. They may moan about the loss of the DPS buff (Hallowed) just tell them to protect you better or sux it up.
Edited to add I have some lowbie PvP videos on my twitch stream. I know its not 60 but may help as far as seeing how to run away.
I don't have massive amounts of cash to drop on a cat or stone. Most AD I've had was 250k, spent 100 of that trying to buff defense. Can't clear T2's, am battling on the harder tier 1's as solo healer due to dps that dies in the first round of final boss fights, running dual cleric is possible but I want to clear as a solo cleric.
We're a European guild so suffer due to lag but we're not casuals, sure some of the members aren't top notch but things fall apart when even one person isn't doing their job. This entire week was spent failing. 4 Hours in Epic Mad Dragon, 6 Hours in Epic Dread Vault but couldn't kill final boss. Two nights ago we tried Epic Pirate King, DC, GF, CW, TR, GWF - despite our best efforts and trying various strategies we failed. Cloak Tower, Crypts and Idriss are so easy we can 4 man them (due to a party member disconnect) The rest are scaled to abusive levels for a solo healing cleric.
This. Keep your stamina high for those moments you really need it, don't twitch shift out of red circles as soon as you see one. Also, very important IMO, keep moving as much as you can while fighting bosses, you will both avoid the red circles as they appear and you make the mobs stutter after you, they hit once, move, hit once, move etc.
And if you can't build DP or AP this way, use sunburst right as it comes of cooldown, it's amazing. Hitting max targets I build around 30-40% AP and it builds enough DP for astral shield as both sunburst and astral gives DP as they come out of cooldown with etheral boon.
I know moving should be 101 in games like these, but more often than not people stand there taking damage or they shift out of every red circle instead of just walking out of it (there is usually plenty of time to do it) and when that one important dmg dealing red circle hit, you don't have stamina, you are screwed.
EDIT: As most people don't kill the adds chasing you, I usually cast forgemaster on one of the adds following me, healing me over the time I'm running around. It helps a lot. The other people almost never need more heals than astral+hallowed can give them. People tend to forget they have pots if there is a cleric around.
Size, obviously, and (I'm guessing) depth of red (i.e. fainter red = less severe), but usually it's so confusing what with everything going on that "circle discrimination" is ...problematic at best.
If you're in wolf den with a loltastic pug, you can be looking at upward of ten circles all in your general area all at the same time. Obviously the key advice there is "don't be in a loltastic pug", but still: any tips/tricks to it?
Just that reds that do dot dmg or just straight up dmg are less bad than those that knock you up or down, or hold you in place. Those are the worse once because you can't do anything and you take a pounding from all the adds.
I guess I should learn to run backwards, eh?
I have an Ioun stone which of course helps a ton. I get ~750 recovery and ~350 Defense / Deflect from my stone. This is obviously a great boon. My Armor is T2 set pieces except the helm, a T2 drop, so it naturally has defense on it, around 1000 total IIRC. My accessorys are all defense based, rings / neck / belt .. and all have defense slots with Azures for more defense.
As i mentioned, Recovery > Defense >>>>> other stats. Current state of game is if you dont build to live, you'll die !!
A good CW makes it easy, a Great CW is just sex on a plate. Sadly there are many *ok* and *poor* CW's out there, hence my high DEF score. I gear to live with no CW, that way the quality of any CW I do get is just bonus. If I ran a static 100% of the time my Def score would be much, much lower. Since I tend to pug a fair amount ... Recovery > Defence > everything else.
TBH, with the -40% self healing debuff, Defense is our greatest tool as a cleric to staying alive. Sure you can 2DC everything and not worry about it, I'd rather solo heal though and get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> killed fast. I guess its a bed of my own making, I Pug, I tend to solo heal, so I gear to live. YMMV based on how / who you group with.
(Disclaimer: I'm still playing around and about a week ago I also had the same problem the person starting the thread had)
1) Delay about 3 seconds before engaging in the fight. If you have a good party they'll wait till everything's on the GF and the GF has a chance for a AoE taunt to get off.
2) Stay away from AoE healing as much as possible. Anything that adds health (even temp HP) builds up agro. I used to use this a lot and splashed AoE healing and AoE Temp HP everywhere and I would either end up dead or everyone else would die because I would be too busy running around trying to stay alive to do my job.
3) Do NOT queue up your abilities. If your not sure what I mean by this, there's a built in feature that allows you to queue in commands ahead of time to combat lag. This is bad if you need to move out of a red area and it wont let you as you have a attack/heal already in the queue ahead of your run out. Shift/Move does interrupt the queue but there's times you just don't have the stamina for it.
4) Try to target everything with your 'You hit it, you get healed' At-Wills. This healing does not build up your agro and if you grabbed the Feats for them do a large amount of healing.
5) Do NOT try and heal everyone one. Only worry about them if they get below 50% health. Then only try and toss one heal on them, if the situation allows. This also means they have to rely on their own heal potions.
Not quite the wording I would have chosen, but this basically covers what you need to know.
That fact is that if you or your team mates are dying constantly and you have a blue circle on the ground it's probably not your fault. It's far more likely the CW isn't doing his job or they just stood in something they shouldn't have.
Most CWs just haven't quite learned they aren't a DPS class yet. Yes they can do wonderful DPS but if that is their primary focus instead of control then they are failing their group just as badly as a cleric without Astral Shield on their bar.
Can this be turned off? Does it only apply to encounters and dailies? (I recently realized this, that is, rather then trying to pump out commands, I slowed things down a bit, and noticed I could move more freely. Nothing more frustrating than getting stuck in a RED spot and not being able to move out of it. At least I now have a reason for this, as I wondered what power the mob was using to ground me like that!
Let's hope the next round of fixes helps us.
Thanks for the tips. Wish I didn't have to spend so much money to stay competitive, but that's the way the cookie crumbles...