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i have this sinking feeling AS (astral shield) is going to get destroyed.
nvmbanelings
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
i keep seeing topics pop-up about how ridiculous AS stacking is, how 2/3 clerics in a dungeon makes it face-roll, etc. i actually haven't seen any other skill complained about... or even the cleric class in general complained about; all complaints are focused on this one skill.
i just have this feeling in my gut that AS is going to get hit and hit - hard. i wouldn't mind the DAMAGE REDUCTION (note: only the damage reduction) from AS being unable to stack; i would've guessed it already doesn't, tbh, but apparently, it does. plus, the healing from a second shield, presumably, still procs foresight on party members.
i hope they don't touch the damage reduction or the healing... or if they do, they have to compensate us otherwise, especially considering the righteousness mechanic (40% less healing from the cleric on themselves), the fact that our (d)at-will skills are garbage, bastion of health isn't too great and healing words charges don't work with recovery (which i think the should fix, definitely).
plus, there's still the issue with heals drawing way too much aggro, etc.
anyone else feel like this?
i just have this feeling in my gut that AS is going to get hit and hit - hard. i wouldn't mind the DAMAGE REDUCTION (note: only the damage reduction) from AS being unable to stack; i would've guessed it already doesn't, tbh, but apparently, it does. plus, the healing from a second shield, presumably, still procs foresight on party members.
i hope they don't touch the damage reduction or the healing... or if they do, they have to compensate us otherwise, especially considering the righteousness mechanic (40% less healing from the cleric on themselves), the fact that our (d)at-will skills are garbage, bastion of health isn't too great and healing words charges don't work with recovery (which i think the should fix, definitely).
plus, there's still the issue with heals drawing way too much aggro, etc.
anyone else feel like this?
Post edited by nvmbanelings on
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The devs would need to significantly boost/buff us in other areas.
indeed. the only acceptable nerf would be to make so multiple clerics shields don't stack the damage reduction, but still heal.
Right now pulling large groups via a Guardian Fighter is needlessly difficult as the Cleric healing them tends out pace their threat generation so the faster option for players is to drop the Guardian and bring a second Cleric. Now if Guardians were changed in some way to allow them to keep their current level of DPS plus be able to generate enough threat to outpace healing on larger pulls I think groups would see them as a faster option for clearing content.
Any actual nerf to a single AS would make me rage though.
^ this. i actually didn't know they stacked until i saw all these threads pop-up, rofl.
astral shield doesn't apply any sort of shield; it just reduces damage by a flat amount. i don't know the exact amount since the description on it is vague, tho. plus, if they did this, they'd have to make the thresh-hold HIGH to make the skill worthwhile... which means that you might as well not even HAVE this cap anyway.
Like half for each addition stack or something, that's all.
Although I don't like mandatory skills, so if having it nerfed would mean cleric is effed then I'd rather than have that whole situation sorted instead tbh.
i thought its a super high mitigation ? I'm saying it 'should' have a threshold, its basically a crutch right now, stand in the shield and you dont need to dodge or move, anything that makes standing in the face of DPS and not having to do anything about it is pretty stupid. If its a flat # damage reduction thats probably why auto-attacks are completely nullified, sadly those happen to be GWF specialty ><
I disagree. Leave it as is for PVP (+ PVE) and instead of having people face roll to kill you, they need to make a targeted effort. For added survivability pop it with hallowed ground and you can feel the other side raging.
Clerics need tools to survive, whether its in PVE or PVP.
n, it's a flat percentage mitigation. if it's, say, 20%, that means a 100 damage attack is reduced to 80.
the shield can't really HAVE a thresh hold unless said thresh hold is stupidly-high since this skill is basically mandatory for any cleric to have. they'd have to make several changes to the cleric to make an actual nerf to AS acceptable. if the damage-reduction stacking is nerfed, i don't think many people will care. a straight up nerf would be silly.
No you just need to compete against people who have a clue about how to play their class, I have been shut down unexpectedly by some very clever GF's. I won't reveal how, but the good ones can and do make a difference and will render you virtually useless.
TR's can stunlock
and
CW can tie me up in various ways, after all its what they are supposed to do
not starting the cool down until it expires is dumb. that'd be worse than a straight-up nerf to the skill. plus, there's no other skill like that in the game. a straight-up nerf to astral shield requires many, many things to be changed about the cleric to make it acceptable, simply because of how the class is right now. AS is the only skill keeping clerics good. they'll always be wanted regardless, even if the shield was removed, but, that'd make them much, much less useful.
clerics also only have three ways to self-heal: healing word, bastion of health and sun burst. astral seal is unreliable, you'll not always be in range for the forgemaster's heal, etc.
i get where you're coming from, but, i can't think of a way to straight-up nerf AS without making the cleric class out-right bad. some content (from what i've heard/seen) would become impossible if AS was nerfed.
You really haven't played many Cryptic games. The cycle with the devs has been holding true to their standard operating procedure for Champions Online, STO, and even CoH (while they ran it).
1. Start off with a fun class. Usually one ability is broken making it "OP" or "FotM".
2. Reduce key abilities with knee-jerk nerfs (usually 25% to 45% reduction) - just hitting the "numbers", not the mechanic.
3. Class/build becomes utterly unviable across the boards because of the wide, sweeping nerf in #2.
4. Three months later when class is nearly totally unplayed, revisit and make it at least semi-viable with a key mechanic change which probably should have been done at point 2.
This isn't a hate post; I've just seen this cycle with the Cryptic developers in several games, and it's been present throughout beta for this game (GWF, and DC healing). I personally think there are better ways to balance things, but it's not the worst method, either.
That said,I'd trade their stacking resistance buffs for dropping the 40% self heal penalty whenever we group up in a second. That's the real cause of multi-cleric groups IMO the majority of the time. It's a direct attempt to work around the fact that we not only tank a huge amount of the adds, but we also heal ourselves the least. Solo I get the debuff, but grouped it has to go.
Gee only someone who has even looked at the skill tree could tell you how ! this isnt GW2 depth oh builds here. Too bad our TR and CW are dead almost instantly because our team has no astral shield remember? They just need to plant it, its not channeled, and its game changing. So much power in one skill, sooo much denial. Its just objectivelly factually that powerful, no matter what unrelated anecdotes you spout about other classes. It is THE CIRCLE OF LIFE.
lol
/10 char
It's clerics go to healing spell, as he said the circle of life, if you want to kill the cleric, well then you have
to take him out of his comfortzone (the circle). Clerics have other spells that I'd see fixed before even
speaking of changing astral. Like Divine glow (lowering you dmg instead of increasing), healing word dont know much more.
Could anyone tell me what the hell is up with the dubble and tripple casts on cleric?
Casting 1 sunburst-character is animating 2, Casting hallowed ground-character does the clap animation 3 times...
It happens smetimes when grouped but not when soloing =/
I want this class in NW.
For me this would be ok then.
The main issue with bastion of health (which - in gernal - is a nice skill imo) is the HIGH cooldown.
I think what everyone is witnessing is a tactic that was designed to help under-geared players who lack confidence as a solo healer challenge different tiers of bosses. There is a point where a Cleric has enough gear that one shield is more than sufficient to heal. The benefits of bringing 2 clerics is not just Astral shield. Clerics bring; knockbacks, damage buffs, defense debuffs, %stat buffs, -combat advantage damage, and I'm sure there are some other things that I missed. Astral shield is easily identifiable and probably the only thing that most people know about Devoted Clerics.
TL/DR
Nerfing astral shield stacking will only hurt undergeared groups.
in PvE AS allows to keep the group up and clear the content. It is not a traditional MMO healer so the DC needs something spicy to make it fun and playable. Unless there is an elaborate way to compensate a nerf of AS, the simple reduction of heal/dmg mitigation will simply call for a) rage from players (then good luck finding mates to run dungeons - I'll level a TR or CW so I can continue to pawn? but then I'll wait 3 hours in a queue looking for a DC...); b) usage of 2 clerics mandatory in a group. IMHO.
in PvP a coordinated effort will shut down the cleric, that is all I can say about it. It is doable, not rocket science. True story is that PvP maps are maybe a bit too small and this creates classic 'cul-de-sac'.
Now, if this call for nerf is led by frustrated players that see clerics stalling the PvP match at #2 spot with blue rings...well, study better your class and counter it. I still think anyway PvP and PvE should have different criteria in terms of spells efficacy and duration, so that you can balance better all the classes.
just my 2 cents
they wont. Its pvp people crying because they fail to lock people when others knock, or fail to knock themself.