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Next Archetype?
rkv13
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 217 Bounty Hunter
So we have the Guardian and Great Weapon Fighters. We have the Devoted Cleric and are hearing talk of the Battle Cleric on the way. We have the Control Wizard and the only logical next step is the War Wizard.
But what about Rogues?
We have the Trickster Rogue, dual wielding daggers sneaking around backstabbing and generally being a roguish <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. What will be the alternative Archetype? In 4E to date we have Aerialist, Brawny, Cutthroat, Shadowy, and Trickster.
Aerialists focus on lots of movement, leaping and tumbling in and out of combat to get into the most advantageous position.
Brawnys are all about heavy damage and CC, stunning/immobilizing/pushing/proneing their targets to death.
Cutthroats are the scariest of the scary Rogues, wielding maces of all things and relying on pants-s***ing terror to keep their enemies cowed.
Shadowy are the super-sneaks, utilizing ranged attacks from the shadows without ever letting the enemy know where they are.
Tricksters are supposed to be all about misdirection and, similar to the Aerialists, moving in and out and all around combat to confound, dizzy, and generally f**k with the enemy. Frankly the devs didn't deliver on this theme enough, providing one single power (and a rather lazy one at that) that generates a shadow clone that's only useful in PvE.
So which will be next?
My guess: Shadowy Rogue. In BW3 Rogues were capable of staying in Stealth for a long time, pumping out a ton of damage while remaining almost entirely untouchable. This was reeled back in BW4, and now most Rogues build toward using Stealth for initial engagement (ie sneaking up behind an enemy to start the fight) and to boost one of their encounter powers in the middle of a fight.
Shadowy Rogues could take up the near-perma-stealth option with ranged attacks (crossbows, slings, bows, etc.) that can be used from Stealth. I'd give them fewer escape mechanisms, or at least make those escape mechanisms do little/no damage (flash/smoke bombs, 3 dodge rolls instead of 2, etc.), and more sustained over burst damage, but with more CC (arrow in the foot to slow, poison arrows for DoTs/weaken, etc.) and utility.
Thoughts?
But what about Rogues?
We have the Trickster Rogue, dual wielding daggers sneaking around backstabbing and generally being a roguish <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. What will be the alternative Archetype? In 4E to date we have Aerialist, Brawny, Cutthroat, Shadowy, and Trickster.
Aerialists focus on lots of movement, leaping and tumbling in and out of combat to get into the most advantageous position.
Brawnys are all about heavy damage and CC, stunning/immobilizing/pushing/proneing their targets to death.
Cutthroats are the scariest of the scary Rogues, wielding maces of all things and relying on pants-s***ing terror to keep their enemies cowed.
Shadowy are the super-sneaks, utilizing ranged attacks from the shadows without ever letting the enemy know where they are.
Tricksters are supposed to be all about misdirection and, similar to the Aerialists, moving in and out and all around combat to confound, dizzy, and generally f**k with the enemy. Frankly the devs didn't deliver on this theme enough, providing one single power (and a rather lazy one at that) that generates a shadow clone that's only useful in PvE.
So which will be next?
My guess: Shadowy Rogue. In BW3 Rogues were capable of staying in Stealth for a long time, pumping out a ton of damage while remaining almost entirely untouchable. This was reeled back in BW4, and now most Rogues build toward using Stealth for initial engagement (ie sneaking up behind an enemy to start the fight) and to boost one of their encounter powers in the middle of a fight.
Shadowy Rogues could take up the near-perma-stealth option with ranged attacks (crossbows, slings, bows, etc.) that can be used from Stealth. I'd give them fewer escape mechanisms, or at least make those escape mechanisms do little/no damage (flash/smoke bombs, 3 dodge rolls instead of 2, etc.), and more sustained over burst damage, but with more CC (arrow in the foot to slow, poison arrows for DoTs/weaken, etc.) and utility.
Thoughts?
Post edited by rkv13 on
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So for the New rogue Class is see more of the Cuttthroat rogue, wielding a single handed mace or other blunt weapon would be great to define a new rogue class as separate from the TR. Give them a hand crossbow in there other hand and we could have a great melee/ranged rogue. All of there CC could be dirty tricks. Imagine knock backs with mace and then slow powers on crossbows. They could play ping pong with monsters kill it at a distance and knock them away when they get close.
Their Class feature should focus on keeping mobs away from them or by keeping mobs close to them CC'ed. And not hiding and stabbing in the dark like stealth.
I also really hoped that we would see thieves needing to spend class points to develope skills like Hide in Shadows, Pick Pocket, Open Locks, Move Silently etc. All these things should be programable in this day and age, but I can understand that is a lot of work just to make one class more.....rogue-like.
@bleeds4u: Well it would be damned hard to incorporate burglary into the game (only one class gets to experience that portion of the game), and pick pocketing is kinda pointless when you're gonna murder the target immediately after. Neverwinter is an Action MMO, and so slowing the pace down so Rogues can pick pockets and burglar houses would make it less fun.
Now trapfinding... that is already a part of the game but is sadly near-pointless. I've never died from traps, a trap has never cost me a fight (though admittedly come a little close), and groups almost never bother to let the Rogue disarm the traps but rather eat the damage and chug a single potion/wait for the Cleric to heal them. IMO traps ought to be scarier so Rogues can actually feel their skill has purpose.
why not, other MMO's allow classes to specialize in certain abilities/features. Why not pickpocketing?
Your comments about the trap system are a great example. They took the time to include traps, did all the work to create the various types and put in a system of detection and, just as you pointed out, made them so useless that it's easier to just soak the meaningless damage than pause 5-10 seconds and let the thieves do their jobs.
Anyone here old enough to have played Gemstone III (or IV) by Simutronics? If you have, you know what kind of game I'm talking about.
There are your Rogue options.
- Cutthroat Rogue
- Aerialist Rogue
- Brawny Rogue
- Shadowy Rogue
I'd liek to see the brawny as the next rogue given the choice. But we won't be given the choice so it doesn't really matter.
It's a really, really sharp mace...
Or you knock someone over the head, take their stuff, then cut their throat. Kind of excessive really, but that's cutthroats for you!
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We likely won't see a different Rogue option until they've put in (for starters): Ranger (both Archery and Two-Blade), Warlock, Paladin, Druid, Barbarian, and Sorcerer.
That's why I don't foresee the Brawny, Aerialist or Cutthroat archetypes coming around, everything unique about them (particularly brawny) is already done by the Trickster. Hence my vote going to Shadowy for the Ranged Rogue.
Haha, I knew someone would bring up Rangers in this discussion. Rangers aren't Rogues! xD
I've heard that the Archer Ranger will be the first bow-user class and should be among the first to be added post-launch. So keep your ears open for any news!
ASUS M5A99X Evo
EVGA GTX 680
Gskill Ripjaw 8GB(2x4gb) DDR3 1600 @ 2133
Corsair Hydro 110 Liquid Cooling
Cyborg RAT 7
Steelseries Merc Stealth (WTB Steelseries Apex! Sell it to me SS!)
Steelseries Siberia V2 Headset (Orange)
Razer Goliathas Omega Control Mousepad
I do agree though, the next rogue class being a ranged specialist would be interesting..