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A little confused after seeing the char-editor
derbock203
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 2 Arc User
first of all, let me say - im impressed about the level of detail in the overall approach, most races are covered (cept maybe the drow and 1-2 others), dice roll stats, deitys, the first hours in the world had me jawdropping cause it looks so gorgeous etc.
but, im really confused about the classes. why are they predefined in a way?
i mean.. why a "trickster rogue" and not just a "rogue" and letting the player decide if he wants him to be a thief, trickster or whatelse?
or why a "control wizard" and no regular wizard baseclass with a then chosen path (conjure/elements/control etc)? dont get me wrong - i like the control class, as i like the trickster class - since my favorite wizard in DnD was the evil red one in baldurs gate 2 and my favorite rogues were the bandits with intrigues and illusions.
but this left me a bit confused - to avoid the word disappointed
but, im really confused about the classes. why are they predefined in a way?
i mean.. why a "trickster rogue" and not just a "rogue" and letting the player decide if he wants him to be a thief, trickster or whatelse?
or why a "control wizard" and no regular wizard baseclass with a then chosen path (conjure/elements/control etc)? dont get me wrong - i like the control class, as i like the trickster class - since my favorite wizard in DnD was the evil red one in baldurs gate 2 and my favorite rogues were the bandits with intrigues and illusions.
but this left me a bit confused - to avoid the word disappointed
Post edited by derbock203 on
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it just appears to be a "what would you like to play in DnD? - i would like to play a rogue.. a trickster rogue"-type of thoughts in the development process, instead of base classes, which is quite irritating for me as an oldschool-DnD-lover.
Since they force you to take the sub-class now and use up slots....once they finally release 'more' of the sub-classes for the Class your trying to play, you will need more char slots which will cost you RL money. Also you will have to re-level the 'new' sub-class, so they probly think it will provide even more income and replayablity.
IF it wasn't a straight up money grab they would just let us pick the base class, and pay the respec fee in AD once new sub-class trees were released. Guess they figure people will be ok with spending tons of RL money on char slots just to try out the different sub-classes of the class they want to play.
That is if all the future classes will be free.
My guess is that all races/classes will be free, but paying a little sometimes unlock them ahead of free play.
So for example, when Dragonborn inevitably come along, there will be a sixty day window where you have to pay to unlock them, then after that they are free. Same with some very popular classes like the Great Weapon Fighter.
It's just a guess, but it does provide a revenue stream (which the game needs) while still holding to the promise they made that all core function is available for free.
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Could see that. Not that I rather not have free, but I buy functionality and not fluff or gambles. Classes to me are functionality. Some say "you buy slots" that is why classes will be free. But a person mentions, it's easy enough to start a new "free" account and get a few free slots that way, thus free classes. Makes more sense you buy a class and get a slot along with it. You can still buy slots separately. It would suck if I had to buy a class and a slot to play a new class.
Yeah we'll see. Call me a cynic, but given how compartmentalized and expensive F2P tends to be, I'd actually bank on having to pay to unlock some races/classes early and then having to pay for a slot to create one.
But it's all speculation, we'll see how it plays out. Just expect to pay a lot of money to do certain things in NWO. It's just how F2P works.
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Have a link for this "promise?" All I've seen to this regard is Emmert's interview at MMORPG.com and that was just saying how some people can play for free trading their Astral Diamonds for Zen, if they want to grind enough for it. Same as Dilithium to Zen in Star Trek and Questionite to Zen in Champions.
Classes? Could go either way. I'm not a 4e player (last I played DnD was 2nd Ed. ADnD) but I expect to have to buy any specialty class or race that comes along. I'm also expecting to have to buy additional Paragon Paths. And in STO, we have to purchase both a character slot then the race to go in it.
You have differents skills/feats/ feature so you cant be effective.
Show me a D&D where you can have a fighter that is highly effective with all 3 of those fighting styles, in most cases the fighter is highly specialized in 1 of the 3.
Remember the game is based on Fourth Edition and is not directly Fourth Edition. Fourth Edition D&D uses basic attacks, I assure you, and the at-wills, encounters and daily powers are just fluffy things they added on to the core package. Cryptic decided to take this action combat stance with the game and thus has worked closely with Wizards of the Coast to develop the action combat *based* on Fourth Edition D&D.
The thing is by changing the core mechanics to be all Power Abilities and limiting players to only a handful of those powers at a given time gave great combat mechanics. Look at this without the D&D visors on and the combat is outstanding...
But now we have Guardian Fighters using Cleave and Shield bash as basic attacks. So let's give a Guardian Fighter a bow...well now he can't cleave...and he can't shield bash...he can't do many if any of his encounter powers...well darn I guess he's going to stand and look pretty.
So when they decided with Wizards to adjust the combat these limitations were put on other aspects. The Trickster Rogue's abilities such as Sly Flourish all have a small weapon requirement. I can literally go on and list thousands of ways the mechanics would become impossible to navigate due to free form builds.
Perhaps all these hurdles could be adjusted much, much later on to try to give more free form abilities but for now these are what I would call "themes." My only complaint is I can't choose the progression path of powers. Granted this isn't possible in PnP either...but I think giving players the abilities to choose which powers to obtain, at which time and which powers to upgrade would greatly improve the appeal to those who are used to a more traditional approach.
They didn't want to be over ambitious, recreating D&D in a video game is quite difficult, and even more so for an MMO. Let them take it slow and it will pay off, until then, have fun walking around in the vast splendor that is Neverwinter.
I assumed these names were just placeholders, but it seems that is not the case. I'm not a lore fanatic or anything, but the current class names are just silly. What's next? Bow Ranger Pew Pew? Or maybe rename the monsters to things like "Level 20 medium difficulty mobile loot bag".
I can tell you haven't picked up a Fourth Edition Player handbook.
Those names are all straight out of The Fourth Edition Handbook. Doesn't make them cool sounding but...yep. They're in there along with the awesome names like "Brawny Rogue" -.-
Can't hold that against Cryptic. Haha.
Just understand that classes will be expanded indefinitely. What is limited now will be less and less limited with time and vizjun990 has the best post in the thread haha.
The demand for free-form classes is there but there's a lot of balancing aspects to go with that. Impossible is not such an inaccurate term with the mechanical changes made to the game that have been earning it such praise, though certainly not from some of the less open-minded of the D&D fanbase. Cryptic has not written off expanding are trying to implement free form builds but it's just too big of a task to do at launch or in the immediate future.
Personally I would be happier with some choices of which skills to upgrade at which time period but separating classes into the themes is not a problem for me. It's more the lack of choice within those themes which both me and if some more choice was added I think a lot of others would be far more content. Would any of you agree with that?