Half-Orc dualing wielding pick axes (x4 crit) was the way I went in DDO during a TR. Not sure how that will play out here.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Half-Orcs would be perfect if the Brawny Rogue was in game since they get a +2 to Dexterity, and Strength. Trickster Rogues get the most benefit from Dexterity, and Charisma.
Half orcs will probably make good trickster rogues too. Str is still a secondary stat, and while you may not want to favor STR over CHA, you'll be able to have the base STR score higher than normal while never having to improve it.
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keda51Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
Drow FTW! I love the drow race from an RP and gameplay standpoint!
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prunetracyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
The choice between STR and CHA as a secondary isn't as clear as it is in the pen and paper game.
In 4E, the choice matters more because abilities use a particular attribute for the rider effects. So a trickster rogue is more distinct from a brawny rogue in that way. But in this game, Strength gives you damage bonus, stamina regen, and dot resist. Charisma gives you deflection chance, companion bonus, and combat advantage damage bonus. Each of these is basically 1% for each point after 10.
So you really do have the freedom to pick whatever you want. You could make a rogue with a race without a dex bonus at all if you want. It'll be a small difference overall, and almost entirely negligible at max level with gear stats diluting ability score impact.
Actually in Pen n Paper 3.5 and some ways 4.0 the only thing Stats where trully good for where Starting your character and qualifying for feats. after gear, bonusses skills and feats your Stats Hardly mattered. Take 3.5 rogue for example. If you want to duel wield, the 17 dex is what You need, put the rest in InT as having a mass of skills is far more important to them as attacking From stealth and being a good assassin your to-hit from Str/Dex is overshadowed by the -10+ they loss because of flatfoot or helpless.
There are a few exceptions though Wizards and offensive spellcasters generally want as High primary stat to incease DCs as there are few and limeted ways of increasing those beyond Hieghten and spell focus.
in 4.0 yes there are Rider benifits in skills you may want to consider but usually the differance is between having a +3 and +4 is typically 1 damage.
Btw Rogues in 4.0 hardly need a a max dex to be effective i've tested 16 or 18 will do you well if you play them right and take every advantage you can and learn to charge to make that CA attack count.
and after all that I'm finding it seems your starting stats seem to hardly matter once your geared up. you don't ever miss unless you wiff air so to hit doesn't exist so its just a slight numbers/damage game for rogues at that point.
I actually think Half Orcs are one of the best, if not the best. Dext and Str both have +2 bonuses and they look to be the highest damage stats you have. Str gives a flat damage bonus, Char gives a Combat Advantage damage bonus - it's the same amount, so it's obviously better to have that damage bonus active all the time.
Plus you do an extra 5% damage from crits and once every 20 seconds, when you engage an enemy, you gain 10% extra movement speed for 3 seconds. Nothing special but it helps.
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prunetracyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Right, I think we're getting at the same point. I was mainly responding to this sort of thing: "Half-Orcs would be perfect if the Brawny Rogue was in game since they get a +2 to Dexterity, and Strength. Trickster Rogues get the most benefit from Dexterity, and Charisma. "
The main point I was getting at was that you can really pick whatever race you want. If you're taking race with a Dex bonus, whether your second stat is Str or Cha or something else is pretty irrelevant, and you're even pretty open to take any race at all due to the way stats work.
If you want to optimize, it depends on what you want to optimize for. If you're optimizing for damage, Half-Orc with Dex/Str is your best bet. But you could just as easily take a Con/Cha race for more survival, might be a good idea for PvP.
Drow for me. Just hoping they get more flavors of rogue soon though. Although some of it may come in with the paragon system. still not seeing a ranger type with long bow and long sword.
I actually think Half Orcs are one of the best, if not the best. Dext and Str both have +2 bonuses and they look to be the highest damage stats you have. Str gives a flat damage bonus, Char gives a Combat Advantage damage bonus - it's the same amount, so it's obviously better to have that damage bonus active all the time.
Plus you do an extra 5% damage from crits and once every 20 seconds, when you engage an enemy, you gain 10% extra movement speed for 3 seconds. Nothing special but it helps.
Yah that extra 5% from half orc is what i think edges the H-orc over the halfling in the DPS department for Rogues((anytype)) thats a solid boost (%) so it will always and never be obsolete regardless of level
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Basically Half-Orcs, Drow, and Halflings have the best racials for a Rogue. With Human being a jack of all trades since they can put a +2 into anything. Elves aren't bad. Since they do get a +2 to Dex but it's wasted a bit due to the plus 2 to Wisdom or Int.
Drow for me. Just hoping they get more flavors of rogue soon though. Although some of it may come in with the paragon system. still not seeing a ranger type with long bow and long sword.
If the 2 weapon ranger is what is coming out next, I don't think they'll have to worry about long bow. I wonder if they'll be using long swords even, or if they'll have their own one handed weapon such as scimitars. Man I hope not.
Also, if they'll be out soonish then I think I'll make my rogue a drow, and my human (and probably main) the ranger.
i think for alittle more defencive halfling couse you get 10% resist CC and 3% deflect, for more dmg i think Half-Orc is the best couse you get 5% to crit dmg. with both you can get same stats
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quickthornMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I never play half-orcs usually, but with this game a I tried out a half-orc Trickster Rogue and have been getting along just fine. Since I often get attached to characters in betas and recreate them later, I might just end up with a half-orc rogue at launch. Otherwise I'd go to the opposite end of the size extreme and create a halfling.
While no serious number crunching has yet been done in regards to theorycrafting for this game, I would imagine the stat bonuses will be of secondary importance to each races' other racial abilities.
Two races stand out in this regard: half-orc and tiefling.
Half-orcs possess a racial that grants 5% increased critical severity, which means that your critical hits will be 5% stronger than they would be otherwise. Given the trickster rogue's propensity toward Dex and Crit stats, this further elevates the value of this racial ability.
Tieflings possess a racial that grants 5% increase damage on targets below half health--a mini passive execute, if you will. While the tiefling's ability score bonuses are somewhat lackluster (yes, they do have +2 Cha for extra CA damage), this mini execute will likely translate to a sizable DPS advantage.
Of course, these advantages are quite small at the end of the day, and for those who don't care to min max, it won't matter, and most players won't notice the differences.
Go with whatever race you truly want to play/have fun with! If maximizing your numbers is all you care about, then go with Tiefling or Half-Orc.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Drow also have a racial passive that debuffs their targets defense on top of a plus two to Dexterity, and Charisma.
Comments
In 4E, the choice matters more because abilities use a particular attribute for the rider effects. So a trickster rogue is more distinct from a brawny rogue in that way. But in this game, Strength gives you damage bonus, stamina regen, and dot resist. Charisma gives you deflection chance, companion bonus, and combat advantage damage bonus. Each of these is basically 1% for each point after 10.
So you really do have the freedom to pick whatever you want. You could make a rogue with a race without a dex bonus at all if you want. It'll be a small difference overall, and almost entirely negligible at max level with gear stats diluting ability score impact.
There are a few exceptions though Wizards and offensive spellcasters generally want as High primary stat to incease DCs as there are few and limeted ways of increasing those beyond Hieghten and spell focus.
in 4.0 yes there are Rider benifits in skills you may want to consider but usually the differance is between having a +3 and +4 is typically 1 damage.
Btw Rogues in 4.0 hardly need a a max dex to be effective i've tested 16 or 18 will do you well if you play them right and take every advantage you can and learn to charge to make that CA attack count.
and after all that I'm finding it seems your starting stats seem to hardly matter once your geared up. you don't ever miss unless you wiff air so to hit doesn't exist so its just a slight numbers/damage game for rogues at that point.
Plus you do an extra 5% damage from crits and once every 20 seconds, when you engage an enemy, you gain 10% extra movement speed for 3 seconds. Nothing special but it helps.
Right, I think we're getting at the same point. I was mainly responding to this sort of thing: "Half-Orcs would be perfect if the Brawny Rogue was in game since they get a +2 to Dexterity, and Strength. Trickster Rogues get the most benefit from Dexterity, and Charisma. "
The main point I was getting at was that you can really pick whatever race you want. If you're taking race with a Dex bonus, whether your second stat is Str or Cha or something else is pretty irrelevant, and you're even pretty open to take any race at all due to the way stats work.
If you want to optimize, it depends on what you want to optimize for. If you're optimizing for damage, Half-Orc with Dex/Str is your best bet. But you could just as easily take a Con/Cha race for more survival, might be a good idea for PvP.
If the 2 weapon ranger is what is coming out next, I don't think they'll have to worry about long bow. I wonder if they'll be using long swords even, or if they'll have their own one handed weapon such as scimitars. Man I hope not.
Also, if they'll be out soonish then I think I'll make my rogue a drow, and my human (and probably main) the ranger.
Two races stand out in this regard: half-orc and tiefling.
Half-orcs possess a racial that grants 5% increased critical severity, which means that your critical hits will be 5% stronger than they would be otherwise. Given the trickster rogue's propensity toward Dex and Crit stats, this further elevates the value of this racial ability.
Tieflings possess a racial that grants 5% increase damage on targets below half health--a mini passive execute, if you will. While the tiefling's ability score bonuses are somewhat lackluster (yes, they do have +2 Cha for extra CA damage), this mini execute will likely translate to a sizable DPS advantage.
Of course, these advantages are quite small at the end of the day, and for those who don't care to min max, it won't matter, and most players won't notice the differences.
Go with whatever race you truly want to play/have fun with! If maximizing your numbers is all you care about, then go with Tiefling or Half-Orc.