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Non-combat skills and quest dialogs
wergonsmith
Member Posts: 56 Arc User
Are there non-combat skills? (Diplomacy, Intimidation, Bluff) If so, does the quest dialog allow the use of these skills to branch to other options?
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There is no Diplomacy, Intimidation, or Bluff currently, but I could see future classes getting them. Say, Diplomacy or Bluff for Bards, Intimidate for Barbarians.
That was the only way to get the Nature skill, which must be intended for some future class. Hmm, wonder what class from the Player's Handbook would have a Nature skill...
Hopefully, these non-combat skills will also further add flavor to each classes. Because in other MMOs, all people see are "numbers" - which ranged caster does better dps among all the ranged caster; or which melee class does better dps among all the melee classes - which eventually leads to other classes being less preferred and even ostracized. So with non-combat skills, maybe we will see all classes in equal demand since they can contribute something other than "numbers".
The skills seemed more like resource gathering methods than social skills like Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff. Unless the resource was a person standing there instead of a book and orb (arcana), or backpack (thievery), my guess is that classes will have overlapping skills... primal classes mostly getting nature skill, arcane getting arcana, and so on.
I will say this is not yet seen in any currently seen official dialog but has shown up in Foundry missions.
Also are there any form of 'levels' or skill check for these or is it a case of you either have it or you don't?
Your character only has one skill and I didn't notice anything like ranks being involved or even a chance of failure. The only use I seen for it in the official content was being able to open a paticular box. The foundry authors seemed to add a few chances to learn things based on your "skill" with either a dialogue option or during interaction with The whole skill thing felt like a late addon to me.
That sounds quite disappointing... These simplified/rushed interactions and skills (from the sound of it) coupled with the quest path (no word yet on whether we can disable that for Foundry content) makes it sound like they've gone for fast-paced action at the expense of tactics and puzzles.
Once you learn how to spot the various types of trap and ensure you have all the potions needed to use every skill you should be able to rush content the first time you run it, just running between crowds of mobs.
I really hope I'm wrong about this (I haven't actually played the game yet myself) because I really want this to be more than just a generic hack n' slash action MMO.
What does having skill ranks or a possibility of skill failure have to do with tactics and puzzles?
Tactics is about combat (and fast-paced action makes tactics even more important), and puzzles are about the player's solving ability, not character stats.
Perhaps I chose my words badly there. In-combat tactics look really good, don't get me wrong. I'm really excited to try that aspect of the game. I meant more in terms of the way you approach a quest.
A better idea might be asking someone with actual beta experience wouldn't it lol? Does this feel like a hack n' slash with a D&D skin or does it feel deeper? Do quests feel more like exploring a dungeon or plowing through trash mobs to get to the end boss?
In a nutshell; does this game do the non-combat elements well in your opinion, and how necessary are they?
To be clear, I haven't played the beta. I do know that there are traps, and secret doors.
How necessary? To me, not at all. I don't really care about non-combat elements in a game like this, and would rather they be as unobtrusive as possible, at least in official content. I don't think it's possible for a video game to genuinely feel like D&D, and I don't see much point in trying. Focus on what video games are good at: fast-paced, tactical, action-combat gameplay.
But if you do want non-combat content, I'm not sure why you need more than what we've got, in terms of skills. You were disappointed that skills didn't have ranks, or chance of failure, but I don't really see what either of those things really adds to non-combat gameplay.
Actually video games can do puzzles quite well anyone recall myst. I found the whole skill thing disappointing because part of the game could be exploration not just running from mob to mob.While this is a video game it still carries the DnD moniker which and I'll admit it does vary from person to person, carries certain expectatoins. I was disappointed in the "skills" in a sense that they can add to combat and overall gameplay. An example for combat is some skills let you percieve things better so you get a chance to have the ambush mobs spawn infront of you at a greater distance. There are many things skills can bring to the table to enhance gameplay especially in an MMO. I am hoping Cryptic intends to develop this for more than just crafting or the occasional cookie tossed my way.
Pretty much this. The other D&D MMO would be a good example of non-combat skills and puzzles, for example. It is also an example of what happens when you try to combine that with a lack of content, where most people seem to know most quests inside out and zerg them, completely breaking immersion. With the Foundry I have high hopes of this game succeeding where that failed.
To be clear I am absolutely not saying I want skills, traps and puzzles to replace combat. It just adds to the list of potential hazards and challenges you could face in any given quest.
As for quorforged's comment: I actually do agree to an extent, just having the ability to create that sort of thing in the Foundry will keep me more than happy, it doesn't need to be forced on everyone for core quests.
If you go into the Hall of Justice and approach his lordness a knight will stop you. One of the dialog boxes prompts for a 'Diplomacy' option. So it did make its way ingame-- even if Paladin's Diplomacy skill isnt in yet. :P
While I see your point, I have to say that I am actually the player you're talking about. I have never played pnp D&D, everything I know and think about D&D started with playing DDO. I picked it up on the strength of D&D having a very dedicated fanbase with high expectations, thinking that to stay alive it would have to be a good game.
True, it was a steep learning curve for an MMO, but a very welcome one. It just seemed to be so much more than the grind and generic quests and lores of other MMOs. I'm not a huge MMO player either, I tend to toy with them for a couple of months (for free) and then get bored of them, with 1 or 2 exceptions. DDO was an exception and I feel this has the potential to do even better.
So yeah, I'm not a true D&D player. I'm just a gamer that was very impressed with the way the D&D system works and I don't want to watch this become a generic action MMO.
Actually, it could be an almost zero impact to character development. You get two die rolls to choose from on initial character generation. You don’t need to change that. The social skill that a class has is usually one of the important attributes for that class. Since they won’t be putting in all the skills, they could just auto-level that skill when the player levels.
As far as adventure creation goes. They could have the writer put in how difficult (easy, normal, difficult) the test should be. The mechanics behind it could be invisible to the writer.
This would just give the writer an additional tool to make the story interesting. The main difficulty I see in this is multiplayer. I believe Star Wars: The Old Republic addressed party members making different choices. I never played it multiplayer so don’t know how they did it.
no one wants it it become generic mmo. but by the simplifying of the rule set they have made it offer more to a wider playerbase. if its just die hard fans of dnd then the amount of people who play will not be what is expected. if cryptic does not have the numbers they want playing this game the MAY not be adding as many update as we the players are hoping
true i can see how that could work and be simple for those who are new to dnd. and ya swtor party making different choices could have definatly been better.
thats not true. it was based on a roll. so whoever rolled higher choice is what happened. but the ls and ds points were allocated based on individual decisions
ya i only played swtor the first month it came out. but ya i only corrected you so there is no confusion with those who are not too familiar with it
How do skills affect exploring the dungeon and talking to NPCs?
What are traps, secret doors, etc like?
How does this stuff work in the standard quests, and what creative uses have you seen on Foundry content?