Datapoint: Posted January 30th, received today August 21st. 6 months and 22 days - 202 days.
Assuming that was posted at 70M queue length, 0.35M Zen processed per day.
Zen influx seems to have been quite stable at 0.35M/day the last months, it used to be around 0.5M/day so there is a decrease in the amount of Zen ending up in queue.
@mentinmindmaker I did a quick averaging +46 days added by the freeze since the mid July. Over a ten day period has it averaging +4.6 days for each day, prior to the AD dump on the game it was very close to +0.6. Assuming the incoming hasn't changed too much, the only factor that would remain is the saturation that took place on January 21st and its aftermath. This graph best illustrates the current trend. As you can see it took a big jump, it is now starting to level off to the former trend.
Didn't expect such a strong emotional reaction to my comments.
I don't want to address all the arguments, but just a simple fact: the inflation is due to the increase of AD supply. If raising the cap also comes with changes that increase AD generation (or not addressing an existing, overly rapid AD supply expansion), then obviously you will just end up with a backlog again. Removing the cap completely would allow it to better reflect AD supply BUT it would be terrible for new players (those that don't have or want to spend loads of real money)
I don't think you are getting anyone "hot under the collar", there is no debate in general economics what drives up inflation of goods sold. Supply versus demand is not inflation. Most frequently meaning of "inflation" refers to a large increase in the CPI (consumer price index) representing the overall price level for goods and services in a localized economy. The QTM (quantity theory of money) states that the general price level of goods and services is directly proportional to the amount of money in circulation. In late the 1970's, the US dollar was said to be valued at 35 cents, because the nation was just printing money.
There is too much AD because they hand it out and it is far too easy to acquire. Raising the cap is not going to remove the AD from the system, only AD sinks will. @plasticbat is stating one of the only items available for zen and not AD is the VIP, I could list others. Placing VIP for sale into the AD market would drain the backlog but seriously take real cash revenues away from the company. Neverwinter has an Astral Loot Box that when purchased it costs 100,000 AD before any discounts. This AD sink allows players to open a mystery chest and possibly get premium prizes. However they don't offer this 100% of the time, which is odd. The resellers mentioned by @blargskull refuse to buy this item, complaining they cannot "profit" from the contents. That would defeat the purpose of it being an AD sink.
Replacing the auction would fix the issue quickly, assuming they can convert the current auction to use the gold and not AD. The issue with this solution, would be to close the current auction to creating new bids, at the same time opening the new gold based auction house for use. Bids would dry up in 5 days and players would want gold and not AD. Gold bars would have to be removed from the AD vendors before any announcement, otherwise players would just stock up on gold prior to the transfer.
Another method would be to look at the AD generators. Random dungeons are the primary method to making AD out of thin air. Elimination or reduction of rewards would cause the dungeons to be immensely unpopular. It was and has been the driving force, to promise massive amounts of AD to the users, making them repeat the same content over and over again. I know, if I could make just as much doing another activity elsewhere, I would. Both options would be very unpopular to the players. This is why AD sinks is the best solution.
To sum this all up, no one here can state, they are too broke to pay out $10 for Zen per month to buy their VIP. If you buy it for 6 months it will cost even less. Unless you are a child, no one gave you a free PC, no one is giving you free internet access, no one is paying your electric bill but you. These games are free to grind or pay for what you want. If you enjoy the game without using cash, good for you. Personally I wouldn't enjoy spending my cash on any game, but I am only here now tracking data.
I don't think you are getting anyone "hot under the collar", there is no debate in general economics what drives up inflation of goods sold. Supply versus demand is not inflation. Most frequently meaning of "inflation" refers to a large increase in the CPI (consumer price index) representing the overall price level for goods and services in a localized economy. The QTM (quantity theory of money) states that the general price level of goods and services is directly proportional to the amount of money in circulation. In late the 1970's, the US dollar was said to be valued at 35 cents, because the nation was just printing money.
We're not in disagreement. My wording of supply is in reference to amount of AD/money in circulation. To be more precise, the supply of goods has been lower due to backlog and AD in circulation continues to rise. Prices have gone up quite significantly due to this.
People do get defensive as soon as they hear something they perceive as a negative to their interests. The first reaction was "Oh no, don't you dare suggest that I have to pay more for zen."
My post was not about fixing AD supply. It was about the backlog. As I said, if you just raise the cap a little and not fix the AD generation, the backlog will be back again soon. The original post was a 2 sentence musing.
It's seems you guys still don't understand the real purpose of in game cash shop.
The purpose is act as shortcut, you don't want to grind exp, you buy boosters or max lv toon. You don't want farm mount or companion, you pay for it.
The zax system act as tool to reward skilled or hardcore players. You are good in game, you make AD's, so you can exchange them to ZEN. Thats what was it's primary purpose.
The solution to problem is quit this illusion that you can earn ZEN via ZAX. With current rates and quantities of demands, casual player have little chances to get Zen in such way. So obviously thy pick alternative, which is use real money.
What Cryptic could do is simply remove VIP from ZEN store, and move to website. And sell as pacage with some extra stuffs..
Like 1 month VIP + x enchanted keys, + unique mount or transmute( depending on event).
On top of it, add extra feature to VIP. Which is VIP instances. Such feature I have seen in game Cabal Online.. Premium instances which have increased creatues/enemies respawning rates. Which allow premium players farm without interferance of non Premium Players.
And since it's instance based game, it would not be hard to implement..
But since VIP would move to website, cryptic could also add it's seprated features in both ZEN and wondrouns bazaar.
As example: Quick travel: 1 day or 7 day or 30d,. For x zen or x AD in wondrous bazzar. Injury immunity: 1 day or 7 day or 30d,. For x zen or x AD in wondrous bazzar. AH listing fee removal: 1 day or 7 day or 30d,. For x zen or x AD in wondrous bazzar. Note: we could remove this feature over all, but I think it should remain, just to drain players AD. You want play market? then spend AD or Zen as investment.
The only thing which I think should not appear in Wondrous bazzar is Enchanted keys. This should remain ZEN exclusive stuffs.
However, I think it would not be bad if Astral Lockboxes would appear in Wondrous Bazzar more offten. And unlike now, I think it would be more beneficial if Astral Lockboxes would be account bound. In other words no ReSelling them via AH.
Then it would act as AD sink. Cuz as long you can sell them via AH, it's not AD sink, it's simply moving AD from account A ( Buyer) to account B(seller).
The Black Lion ( mythic mount) is example itself. It was Character bound. No ReSelling via AH, there for all who bought this mount, their AD's where removed from game.
As for telling that there is too much of AD in game. It's just part of truth. When your character reach certain level. You don't spend much of AD for it's upgrading/gearing. So more AD remain unused. But from fresh player or one who created new character, he will spend more AD, and will have very llite spare ones.
Also lets say you where lucky and got mythic/legendary mount. Not onces, but twice. Since they are account wide, the seccond one you will sell. Which bring you AD. For some players who building toon, these AD will be spend in one way. For player who have already multiple toons, well geared or near max out, the spare AD will be thrown in ZAX.
So it's not the problem that players make too much of AD, the problem is that there is very little true AD sink features.. And it's that there is very little stuffs you can buy via AD outside of AH.
The moral of the storry, as long VIP remain in ZEN store, players will throw any spare AD in ZAX. Cuz it's most valuable feature in ZEN store, and it's have no alternatives.
Also as long there is no worth features in Wondrous Bazzar there will be not enough of AD sinks, and again, all spare AD goes to ZAX.
It's simple economy stuff.
And then the finall lines is that.. You have to decide what do you want.. To please some players, or fix issue and balance game.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
The way it is suppose to work and the way it is now are nothing alike. @utookmynick you stated twice now, that removing the cap would be a solution. Please explain in greater detail how that alleviates any problems? That is like a leader going on TV during a water shortage, and telling people that stores can price gouge for water. Soon you would be paying $100 for a bottle of drinking water. I believe the cap should not only be reduced back to 500:1 but set to a fixed rate so new players can't post below that amount, until the backlog is resolved.
Many new players think they will get AD posting at 50:1 - I am not picking on them being naïve - they just do this and wonder why there is no return. If they remove the cap, I could charge 10000:1 and people would have to pay it. This would also create inflation in the auction house as people would need to charge more AD for the items sold.
Another misconception by many users is Cryptic is paying you the zen. The zen was purchased by a player like me, then traded to the market for another player's AD. People like @hadestemplar#9918 think Cryptic is manipulating the backlog, this is possible but not proven. I would think the backlog would appear in their other 2 games, if that were the case. As for something you can buy for AD and not zen, over in Champions I can buy travel powers, vehicles, upgrades and whatnot for Questionite (the AD equivalent) so many of us there trade do trade our zen for AD. This "Wonderous Bazaar" looks very bare by comparison. I haven't been on STO in ages, I cannot comment on the current state there, last I heard there was no backlog.
When I tell people there is no backlog on the other 2 games, the common comeback is, they don't show a profit. Then why do they exist, if there is no profit to be made? Champions users a few years ago got very upset when they removed the $30 per month subscription. Yes, we were paying a subscription there, for our perks, while you were playing for free here. The ones that grandfathered in can keep paying the subscription as long as they don't drop a month. Why would they pull out the subscriptions, if they are not making money? If those games don't make money, why would they pay wages for people working on them?
I can't say one way or the other about what motivates Cryptic to make these decisions. If they want to compel players to fund the free players, they could do just that. The day you see them charging prices like 4995 zen for items, this creates +5 zen, completely worthless to the buyer so they must toss it into the ZAX for AD. I imagine players using 20% off coupons still manage to spend all their zen. But if they promote a 22% off coupon 50 - 11 = 39. What else are you going to do with the small change?
@hotfrostworm thanks for updating the spreadsheet, while I will never use the ZAX to any extent, at least this information will enlighten new players. I see by your estimates, the end of September will be a full year wait time. I spoke with your wife on the phone, heard you are sick now, get well soon.
Another misconception by many users is Cryptic is paying you the zen. The zen was purchased by a player like me, then traded to the market for another player's AD. People like @hadestemplar#9918 think Cryptic is manipulating the backlog, this is possible but not proven. I would think the backlog would appear in their other 2 games, if that were the case. As for something you can buy for AD and not zen, over in Champions I can buy travel powers, vehicles, upgrades and whatnot for Questionite (the AD equivalent) so many of us there trade do trade our zen for AD. This "Wonderous Bazaar" looks very bare by comparison. I haven't been on STO in ages, I cannot comment on the current state there, last I heard there was no backlog.
I only wrote how to solve issue with backlog, and what it need to be done, and on top of that, the solution is based on same system which other mmo development and publishing companies using. There where not a single words that Cryptic Manipulate Backlog.
So quit this flipping words arround to shape for own prefereces.
Also realize that Star Trek online is not Neverwinter online. Even if same publisher, even same development companies, they are still different games. So thats also mean that there is different need of items in your game progression, and game economy shape also difference that what we have in Neverwinter.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Well, you only wrote how to kill the game, which in case will also solve the problem with the backlog. No game -> no backlog.
And btw. reselling Astral Lockboxes is an actual AD sink, the AH takes a cut from every sale, at this point i'm rather sure that the AH is a bigger AD sink then anything else in game, and it would make more sense to give the players more stuff to sell, so that more AD is taken out of the game again.
There is too much AD because they hand it out and it is far too easy to acquire. Raising the cap is not going to remove the AD from the system, only AD sinks will.
They have done *some* progress on this recently. * Some keys are now sold for AD -> AD sink * RADQ is now way harder to complete -> less RAD into economy(won't hit old players with big backlogs immediately, but it will be very noticeable for the new people) * Some items are moved from Zen store to AD shop -> AD sink * The Astral lockbox seems to be sold much more aggressively now -> AD sink
Because there is so much loose AD in the economy it will not have an immediate effect, and it could be too little to have much effect at all. We'll see in a few months.
The ZAX queue has dropped from 70M to 66M, but that probably is because the big purchases from bondings were not renewed.
@utookmynick you stated twice now, that removing the cap would be a solution. Please explain in greater detail how that alleviates any problems?
Relax. I also said they can't and have no reason to. Can't because it would upset too many people and won't because this is actually a pretty good "have your cake and eat it too" situation for the company. Don't worry. There's no chance of it happening.
@hadestemplar#9918 sorry it is far too easy to misread what people are saying, sadly my English skills are poor and worse yet, it is the only language I do speak. I do apologize, thought you had mentioned it before, I was probably thinking of someone else. As for the game being different, yes they went with the gold based auction house on both models prior to this one. If the AD was only dropping 1 to 3 per mob killed then it might make some sense. That radical change in the formula broke this game's economy on day one.
@regenerde the 10% tax from the auction is too low in my opinion. Raising the tax to 50%, adding a bonus of +45% after tax for having active VIP would increase sales of VIP and also creating a better sink. The resellers want to open the box and sell the contents for more, not sell the box. This was clear on Northside's YouTube when he opened thousands and stated he didn't get enough items to sell for more than what he paid for the boxes.
The boxes are sold for 100K flat from the WB, 75K with the VIP discount, when they sell them at 85K the reseller pays 8,500 in tax and then see only 1,500 profit per box. During the "dry spell" - when Cryptic doesn't offer those boxes - the prices jump up to 190K or higher. Assuming someone needs the box that badly, cannot wait for the next 1 week sale, they are still only pulling 19K out as a sink. That is by far too little removed.
Assuming they did a 50% tax instead of a 10% any item sold for 100K would only see 50K return without the VIP, Players with VIP would be taxed 50% and then get a +45% bonus on the sale 22.5K added making it 72.5K, taking away 27.5K out of the system.
Meanwhile, back on the topic at hand, my 10 zen is still stuck in the backlog.
@hadestemplar#9918 sorry it is far too easy to misread what people are saying, sadly my English skills are poor and worse yet, it is the only language I do speak. I do apologize, thought you had mentioned it before, I was probably thinking of someone else. As for the game being different, yes they went with the gold based auction house on both models prior to this one. If the AD was only dropping 1 to 3 per mob killed then it might make some sense. That radical change in the formula broke this game's economy on day one.
It's ok. English is not my primary language either. Thats why before posting comment, I read it up couples times. To try make it simple to read, but grammar and spelling mistakes still happens..
In any case, it's need to be carefull when you mentioning someone, cuz misunderstandings usually lead in rage and flame fiesta. And thats lead to inevitable thread closure.
Personally I would prefer that Cryptic studios would hire some Economy expert, and look to in game data. And give own opinion and advice how solve this issue. The CCP Games (Icelandic video game developer), have hired three economy expert to assist with game balacing. Cuz EVE online is purest sandbox and in game economy highly inluence game and companies incomes.
Neverwinter is not sadnbox, but theme park, yet we still have some sort in game economy. And any game who's in game economy is in bad shape, lead to bad situation in game, and thats lead to bad incomes for company.. And as tradionally, person who not so great in economy stuffs try solve issue, which lead to even worse outcome..
Whole Neverwinter issue is economical issue, and it's need to be solve same as mathematical equations. Thats mean not try pelase x player, and ignore other part of community.. Either fix issue and please all, or don't please anyone at all. There is no third path. Any company who dared invent thrid path, well they closed game, and eventually they shut down their Studios operations. No one want to license game publishing to company who failed before..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
@blargskull If they increase the AH cut, players will simply start trading items directly, and the AH will be empty in no time.
And i'm pretty sure i bought my Astral Lockboxes for 60k, sold them recently for 80k, and i haven't seen the price increase over 100k in that time, tried selling them a few times for around 100k, but that didn't work out. Not to mention that in 23 days the Astral Lockbox will be back in the Wondrous Bazaar, prices are currently dropping below 69k per lockbox.
Anyway, my point would be, that while the AH cut might not look like much on a single item, you've to keep in mind that thousands of players are paying it, and now imagine for a moment if they would remove most character/account bound tags from dungeon/skirmish drops and/or the stuff that comes from Juma bags, if they consider doing that, it could drain a solid amount of AD right out of the game.
Btw. looks like the most recent listing ends up on top in the ZAX, added one for 4999 ZEN, and it's listed above all the others.
And i'm pretty sure i bought my Astral Lockboxes for 60k, sold them recently for 80k, and i haven't seen the price increase over 100k in that time, tried selling them a few times for around 100k, but that didn't work out. Not to mention that in 23 days the Astral Lockbox will be back in the Wondrous Bazaar, prices are currently dropping below 69k per lockbox.
With VIP, the cost for an Astral lockbox is 60k.
Astral lockboxes were selling over 100k before last time they made them available. Prices are increasing over time as less Astrals are available for sale. The sellers(including myself) were not expecting another Astral sale this fast, so now everyone is scrambling to offload their Astrals, causing prices to drop down towards cost.
At-cost price for an Astral in AH is 67k, now they are selling around 70k. Prices were around 80k before the next Astral sale was visible in the calendar.
The VIP cost being at 60k was only because there was a 15% sale going on the last time Astral Lockboxes were offered. As far as I recall, that was the only time the boxes have been offered during a Wondrous Bazaar sale.
The VIP cost being at 60k was only because there was a 15% sale going on the last time Astral Lockboxes were offered. As far as I recall, that was the only time the boxes have been offered during a Wondrous Bazaar sale.
It was that way the round before that too I think.
And it will be that way on September 16th too - Astral lockboxes and Bazaar discount at the same time.
Well, this is strange, one of my listings right in the middle is getting filled now: https://imgur.com/a/keEw1ni looks like every few minutes a bit of ZEN comes in...
I'd guess it's the one from 2. February, which would be 209 days.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,421Arc User
edited August 2021
--
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Well, this is strange, one of my listings right in the middle is getting filled now: https://imgur.com/a/keEw1ni looks like every few minutes a bit of ZEN comes in...
I'd guess it's the one from 2. February, which would be 209 days.
You can scroll down in your listings and see when you posted the ID 904
Well, this is strange, one of my listings right in the middle is getting filled now: https://imgur.com/a/keEw1ni looks like every few minutes a bit of ZEN comes in...
I'd guess it's the one from 2. February, which would be 209 days.
You can scroll down in your listings and see when you posted the ID 904
Thanks for the advice, it's indeed the one posted on 2. February, the listing started filling 11:42:18 AM, and it was finished 3:37:42 PM on 30. August.
I sent @hotfrostworm an email that it is now 212 days. I know he is busy working one of his confidential jobs out of town, but that is why they pay him the big bucks.
I am sure he will update the sheet to the current. Presently it is reading that people should be getting Feb. 2nd on Aug. 24th, so that seems be on track as usual. That 10 Zen is so close I can taste it!
I was looking at roughly 250K AD on one of my characters today, attempting to figure out where it came from... turns out he got rewarded by the campaigns he finished up prior to module 21. Whispering Caverns alone will give you 100K. I would expect a lot of the old players, those who stuck around, are filling up the bids since this module dropped. Sometime next year, there will be another clog of AD in there. I only have my original 6 and now this bard, but I know of several players who have over 16 up to 32. If they each have about 250K per, that could be 8 to 12 million or more per player. Today's AD becomes next year's blockage!
...those are rAD - they make difference for a starting player, but for an active old players are pretty much useless. (There are other generous sources of rAD to get more than 100k per day easily, even one rtq per day will get you close if you always play with a char with ad bonus from invoking. And such players often go to check some dungeons too...)
Well, Eldritch Runestones are still dropping, and there's another 2x Refining Stones event in about 12 days...
The rAD from adventures/campaigns is similar to the Boxes of Astral Diamonds you can get from this event, it's some nice and easy to get rAD, but you still can only refine 100k per day in the end.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,421Arc User
...the count was about 0,6 day added per day - and just to inform, my 6/2 order has come in today
May be my "4 days" has been reduced. The first Jan 21 (a morning posting) was reported to be delivered on July 12. My Jan 21 (a late night posting) was finally delivered on July 16.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Comments
Assuming that was posted at 70M queue length, 0.35M Zen processed per day.
Zen influx seems to have been quite stable at 0.35M/day the last months, it used to be around 0.5M/day so there is a decrease in the amount of Zen ending up in queue.
PSN Zen AD Exchange - Forecasting Spreadsheet
There is too much AD because they hand it out and it is far too easy to acquire. Raising the cap is not going to remove the AD from the system, only AD sinks will. @plasticbat is stating one of the only items available for zen and not AD is the VIP, I could list others. Placing VIP for sale into the AD market would drain the backlog but seriously take real cash revenues away from the company. Neverwinter has an Astral Loot Box that when purchased it costs 100,000 AD before any discounts. This AD sink allows players to open a mystery chest and possibly get premium prizes. However they don't offer this 100% of the time, which is odd. The resellers mentioned by @blargskull refuse to buy this item, complaining they cannot "profit" from the contents. That would defeat the purpose of it being an AD sink.
Replacing the auction would fix the issue quickly, assuming they can convert the current auction to use the gold and not AD. The issue with this solution, would be to close the current auction to creating new bids, at the same time opening the new gold based auction house for use. Bids would dry up in 5 days and players would want gold and not AD. Gold bars would have to be removed from the AD vendors before any announcement, otherwise players would just stock up on gold prior to the transfer.
Another method would be to look at the AD generators. Random dungeons are the primary method to making AD out of thin air. Elimination or reduction of rewards would cause the dungeons to be immensely unpopular. It was and has been the driving force, to promise massive amounts of AD to the users, making them repeat the same content over and over again. I know, if I could make just as much doing another activity elsewhere, I would. Both options would be very unpopular to the players. This is why AD sinks is the best solution.
To sum this all up, no one here can state, they are too broke to pay out $10 for Zen per month to buy their VIP. If you buy it for 6 months it will cost even less. Unless you are a child, no one gave you a free PC, no one is giving you free internet access, no one is paying your electric bill but you. These games are free to grind or pay for what you want. If you enjoy the game without using cash, good for you. Personally I wouldn't enjoy spending my cash on any game, but I am only here now tracking data.
PSN Zen AD Exchange - Forecasting Spreadsheet
People do get defensive as soon as they hear something they perceive as a negative to their interests. The first reaction was "Oh no, don't you dare suggest that I have to pay more for zen."
My post was not about fixing AD supply. It was about the backlog. As I said, if you just raise the cap a little and not fix the AD generation, the backlog will be back again soon. The original post was a 2 sentence musing.
The purpose is act as shortcut, you don't want to grind exp, you buy boosters or max lv toon. You don't want farm mount or companion, you pay for it.
The zax system act as tool to reward skilled or hardcore players. You are good in game, you make AD's, so you can exchange them to ZEN. Thats what was it's primary purpose.
The solution to problem is quit this illusion that you can earn ZEN via ZAX. With current rates and quantities of demands, casual player have little chances to get Zen in such way. So obviously thy pick alternative, which is use real money.
What Cryptic could do is simply remove VIP from ZEN store, and move to website. And sell as pacage with some extra stuffs..
Like 1 month VIP + x enchanted keys, + unique mount or transmute( depending on event).
On top of it, add extra feature to VIP. Which is VIP instances.
Such feature I have seen in game Cabal Online.. Premium instances which have increased creatues/enemies respawning rates.
Which allow premium players farm without interferance of non Premium Players.
And since it's instance based game, it would not be hard to implement..
But since VIP would move to website, cryptic could also add it's seprated features in both ZEN and wondrouns bazaar.
As example:
Quick travel: 1 day or 7 day or 30d,. For x zen or x AD in wondrous bazzar.
Injury immunity: 1 day or 7 day or 30d,. For x zen or x AD in wondrous bazzar.
AH listing fee removal: 1 day or 7 day or 30d,. For x zen or x AD in wondrous bazzar.
Note: we could remove this feature over all, but I think it should remain, just to drain players AD. You want play market? then spend AD or Zen as investment.
The only thing which I think should not appear in Wondrous bazzar is Enchanted keys. This should remain ZEN exclusive stuffs.
However, I think it would not be bad if Astral Lockboxes would appear in Wondrous Bazzar more offten. And unlike now, I think it would be more beneficial if Astral Lockboxes would be account bound. In other words no ReSelling them via AH.
Then it would act as AD sink. Cuz as long you can sell them via AH, it's not AD sink, it's simply moving AD from account A ( Buyer) to account B(seller).
The Black Lion ( mythic mount) is example itself. It was Character bound. No ReSelling via AH, there for all who bought this mount, their AD's where removed from game.
As for telling that there is too much of AD in game. It's just part of truth.
When your character reach certain level. You don't spend much of AD for it's upgrading/gearing. So more AD remain unused.
But from fresh player or one who created new character, he will spend more AD, and will have very llite spare ones.
Also lets say you where lucky and got mythic/legendary mount. Not onces, but twice. Since they are account wide, the seccond one you will sell. Which bring you AD.
For some players who building toon, these AD will be spend in one way. For player who have already multiple toons, well geared or near max out, the spare AD will be thrown in ZAX.
So it's not the problem that players make too much of AD, the problem is that there is very little true AD sink features..
And it's that there is very little stuffs you can buy via AD outside of AH.
The moral of the storry, as long VIP remain in ZEN store, players will throw any spare AD in ZAX.
Cuz it's most valuable feature in ZEN store, and it's have no alternatives.
Also as long there is no worth features in Wondrous Bazzar there will be not enough of AD sinks, and again, all spare AD goes to ZAX.
It's simple economy stuff.
And then the finall lines is that.. You have to decide what do you want.. To please some players, or fix issue and balance game.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
@utookmynick you stated twice now, that removing the cap would be a solution. Please explain in greater detail how that alleviates any problems? That is like a leader going on TV during a water shortage, and telling people that stores can price gouge for water. Soon you would be paying $100 for a bottle of drinking water. I believe the cap should not only be reduced back to 500:1 but set to a fixed rate so new players can't post below that amount, until the backlog is resolved.
Many new players think they will get AD posting at 50:1 - I am not picking on them being naïve - they just do this and wonder why there is no return. If they remove the cap, I could charge 10000:1 and people would have to pay it. This would also create inflation in the auction house as people would need to charge more AD for the items sold.
Another misconception by many users is Cryptic is paying you the zen. The zen was purchased by a player like me, then traded to the market for another player's AD. People like @hadestemplar#9918 think Cryptic is manipulating the backlog, this is possible but not proven. I would think the backlog would appear in their other 2 games, if that were the case. As for something you can buy for AD and not zen, over in Champions I can buy travel powers, vehicles, upgrades and whatnot for Questionite (the AD equivalent) so many of us there trade do trade our zen for AD. This "Wonderous Bazaar" looks very bare by comparison. I haven't been on STO in ages, I cannot comment on the current state there, last I heard there was no backlog.
When I tell people there is no backlog on the other 2 games, the common comeback is, they don't show a profit. Then why do they exist, if there is no profit to be made? Champions users a few years ago got very upset when they removed the $30 per month subscription. Yes, we were paying a subscription there, for our perks, while you were playing for free here. The ones that grandfathered in can keep paying the subscription as long as they don't drop a month. Why would they pull out the subscriptions, if they are not making money? If those games don't make money, why would they pay wages for people working on them?
I can't say one way or the other about what motivates Cryptic to make these decisions. If they want to compel players to fund the free players, they could do just that. The day you see them charging prices like 4995 zen for items, this creates +5 zen, completely worthless to the buyer so they must toss it into the ZAX for AD. I imagine players using 20% off coupons still manage to spend all their zen. But if they promote a 22% off coupon 50 - 11 = 39. What else are you going to do with the small change?
@hotfrostworm thanks for updating the spreadsheet, while I will never use the ZAX to any extent, at least this information will enlighten new players. I see by your estimates, the end of September will be a full year wait time.
I spoke with your wife on the phone, heard you are sick now, get well soon.
Just killing time...
I only wrote how to solve issue with backlog, and what it need to be done, and on top of that, the solution is based on same system which other mmo development and publishing companies using.
There where not a single words that Cryptic Manipulate Backlog.
So quit this flipping words arround to shape for own prefereces.
Also realize that Star Trek online is not Neverwinter online. Even if same publisher, even same development companies, they are still different games. So thats also mean that there is different need of items in your game progression, and game economy shape also difference that what we have in Neverwinter.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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No game -> no backlog.
And btw. reselling Astral Lockboxes is an actual AD sink, the AH takes a cut from every sale, at this point i'm rather sure that the AH is a bigger AD sink then anything else in game, and it would make more sense to give the players more stuff to sell, so that more AD is taken out of the game again.
* Some keys are now sold for AD -> AD sink
* RADQ is now way harder to complete -> less RAD into economy(won't hit old players with big backlogs immediately, but it will be very noticeable for the new people)
* Some items are moved from Zen store to AD shop -> AD sink
* The Astral lockbox seems to be sold much more aggressively now -> AD sink
Because there is so much loose AD in the economy it will not have an immediate effect, and it could be too little to have much effect at all. We'll see in a few months.
The ZAX queue has dropped from 70M to 66M, but that probably is because the big purchases from bondings were not renewed.
@regenerde the 10% tax from the auction is too low in my opinion. Raising the tax to 50%, adding a bonus of +45% after tax for having active VIP would increase sales of VIP and also creating a better sink. The resellers want to open the box and sell the contents for more, not sell the box. This was clear on Northside's YouTube when he opened thousands and stated he didn't get enough items to sell for more than what he paid for the boxes.
The boxes are sold for 100K flat from the WB, 75K with the VIP discount, when they sell them at 85K the reseller pays 8,500 in tax and then see only 1,500 profit per box. During the "dry spell" - when Cryptic doesn't offer those boxes - the prices jump up to 190K or higher. Assuming someone needs the box that badly, cannot wait for the next 1 week sale, they are still only pulling 19K out as a sink. That is by far too little removed.
Assuming they did a 50% tax instead of a 10% any item sold for 100K would only see 50K return without the VIP, Players with VIP would be taxed 50% and then get a +45% bonus on the sale 22.5K added making it 72.5K, taking away 27.5K out of the system.
Meanwhile, back on the topic at hand, my 10 zen is still stuck in the backlog.
Just killing time...
It's ok. English is not my primary language either. Thats why before posting comment, I read it up couples times. To try make it simple to read, but grammar and spelling mistakes still happens..
In any case, it's need to be carefull when you mentioning someone, cuz misunderstandings usually lead in rage and flame fiesta. And thats lead to inevitable thread closure.
Personally I would prefer that Cryptic studios would hire some Economy expert, and look to in game data. And give own opinion and advice how solve this issue.
The CCP Games (Icelandic video game developer), have hired three economy expert to assist with game balacing. Cuz EVE online is purest sandbox and in game economy highly inluence game and companies incomes.
Neverwinter is not sadnbox, but theme park, yet we still have some sort in game economy. And any game who's in game economy is in bad shape, lead to bad situation in game, and thats lead to bad incomes for company.. And as tradionally, person who not so great in economy stuffs try solve issue, which lead to even worse outcome..
Whole Neverwinter issue is economical issue, and it's need to be solve same as mathematical equations. Thats mean not try pelase x player, and ignore other part of community.. Either fix issue and please all, or don't please anyone at all. There is no third path.
Any company who dared invent thrid path, well they closed game, and eventually they shut down their Studios operations. No one want to license game publishing to company who failed before..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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And i'm pretty sure i bought my Astral Lockboxes for 60k, sold them recently for 80k, and i haven't seen the price increase over 100k in that time, tried selling them a few times for around 100k, but that didn't work out. Not to mention that in 23 days the Astral Lockbox will be back in the Wondrous Bazaar, prices are currently dropping below 69k per lockbox.
Anyway, my point would be, that while the AH cut might not look like much on a single item, you've to keep in mind that thousands of players are paying it, and now imagine for a moment if they would remove most character/account bound tags from dungeon/skirmish drops and/or the stuff that comes from Juma bags, if they consider doing that, it could drain a solid amount of AD right out of the game.
Btw. looks like the most recent listing ends up on top in the ZAX, added one for 4999 ZEN, and it's listed above all the others.
Astral lockboxes were selling over 100k before last time they made them available. Prices are increasing over time as less Astrals are available for sale. The sellers(including myself) were not expecting another Astral sale this fast, so now everyone is scrambling to offload their Astrals, causing prices to drop down towards cost.
At-cost price for an Astral in AH is 67k, now they are selling around 70k. Prices were around 80k before the next Astral sale was visible in the calendar.
And it will be that way on September 16th too - Astral lockboxes and Bazaar discount at the same time.
So it seems Cryptic has made a rule of it.
https://imgur.com/a/keEw1ni
looks like every few minutes a bit of ZEN comes in...
I'd guess it's the one from 2. February, which would be 209 days.
the listing started filling 11:42:18 AM,
and it was finished 3:37:42 PM on 30. August.
I am sure he will update the sheet to the current. Presently it is reading that people should be getting Feb. 2nd on Aug. 24th, so that seems be on track as usual. That 10 Zen is so close I can taste it!
Just killing time...
> Yes, it is expected to be longer. Each day adds about 4 to 6 days. If Feb 2 takes 212 days, Feb 6 is expected to take 228+ days.
Wow that is insane. Based on that if i were to post a new listing on the exchange it would take over 2 years for me to receive it!!!
Just killing time...
(There are other generous sources of rAD to get more than 100k per day easily, even one rtq per day will get you close if you always play with a char with ad bonus from invoking. And such players often go to check some dungeons too...)
The rAD from adventures/campaigns is similar to the Boxes of Astral Diamonds you can get from this event, it's some nice and easy to get rAD, but you still can only refine 100k per day in the end.