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We all want mod 15 mechanics back...
djnasty93
Member Posts: 169 Arc User
okay, considered 99,9999% of people that loved the old mechanics/classes are cryn (stopped playn) the total destruction that every build of every class has become (only cool thing its divinity counter.. ''nerf Dc Dps will come soon'')
the game before was totally different, more creative, more tests to do more funny things instead of thinking only to make astral diamonds for THE POWER….
if i made a copy of neverwinter mod 15 all players come on my neverwinter instead of new mod… (im the one that cry about old mod old mechanic of my hunter ranger)
seriously an hr buffer in mod 15 can run with the companion 'chicken' equipped, to help him run away and buff….. this is PURE FUN….. now what is a buffer.. if you are bored to play dps class only alternative its healer
almost make like 'build on charisma for max reload speed, build on costitution for max ap' not a fake 1% reload speed or 1% action point gain…. this is a joke, we need more creativity… we got all standard now, everyone same build and everyone make same identic rotation so its like every hr that make a standard rotation will result same identic damage.. cause warden rotation its super boring ans super easy…. do you remember when people said that hr was one of the hardest class in neverwinter? now its the easiest, im sure even a 8 years old can replicate a rotation of an hr experienced that played 5 years only Hr.. this is powercracy not meritocracy or skillcracy … he use SNIPE Daily, he crit, you replicate it you dont crit, he is 5 milions upper, where is your power now?
The only thing i like now its that you can do dmg witouth any buffer in this mod.. this is cool cause good buffers were really rare in past, causing you to do one time 100 in dmg and one time to do 1000 in dmg… you were same your rotation same but the buff was different..
the game before was totally different, more creative, more tests to do more funny things instead of thinking only to make astral diamonds for THE POWER….
if i made a copy of neverwinter mod 15 all players come on my neverwinter instead of new mod… (im the one that cry about old mod old mechanic of my hunter ranger)
seriously an hr buffer in mod 15 can run with the companion 'chicken' equipped, to help him run away and buff….. this is PURE FUN….. now what is a buffer.. if you are bored to play dps class only alternative its healer
almost make like 'build on charisma for max reload speed, build on costitution for max ap' not a fake 1% reload speed or 1% action point gain…. this is a joke, we need more creativity… we got all standard now, everyone same build and everyone make same identic rotation so its like every hr that make a standard rotation will result same identic damage.. cause warden rotation its super boring ans super easy…. do you remember when people said that hr was one of the hardest class in neverwinter? now its the easiest, im sure even a 8 years old can replicate a rotation of an hr experienced that played 5 years only Hr.. this is powercracy not meritocracy or skillcracy … he use SNIPE Daily, he crit, you replicate it you dont crit, he is 5 milions upper, where is your power now?
The only thing i like now its that you can do dmg witouth any buffer in this mod.. this is cool cause good buffers were really rare in past, causing you to do one time 100 in dmg and one time to do 1000 in dmg… you were same your rotation same but the buff was different..
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with 7 classes you can do only the game you are playn (nerf/buff) to get more interestant one class.. imagine if gwf can hold 2 weapons just enabling a specific feat tree, or hunter ranger with a musket this will encourage 'non addicted to dmg' people to make an Hr a Gwf just because its particular/funny/cool/interesting/powerful..
with thoose mod 16 changes neverwinter become like every Mmo in the world with the malus that the mechanic of all game was thought in another way than it is now
as i said in past Nw lost its Spectacularity… the research behing one phases, the perfection of one phases.. every show mentality its broken.. see old you tube videos how many views gets then cry you too
i feel like i lost a game.. im here just to know what future equipment will give us (not dmg ofc, i mean utility, funny equip, userful equip)
definitely if i was a new player just approaching neverwinter, yes i liked like i liked in past the stance bow/melee, but i stopped play cause i hate fixed reload speeds like every MMo..
This Whole game need a big fix to let people like neverwinter
HOW a main Op Paladin can do quests in this mod? he cant cause he will be 100% slower than a weak/low item score dps, so he lost his time cause he like to be tank/healer …..
you made so big chaos in this mod that i really cant believe how people still play (addiction) !?
so were can i find that game in 2020? can i rollback my pc?
Will they do a rollback? Unlikely. They invested too much time into it. They didn't like the "complexity" of the previous skill trees because, apparently they:
Carry on sir.
1% per point would actually be sorta closer to the old system (arguably better because the old system was 1% for every point of Ability Score above 10). I mean, it's not like we didn't have that back before.
However, as much as we poked fun at some classes only doing one thing, there was a difference in how the specs were played and formed, like easily knowing the difference between a Trapper versus Combat Ranger by inputs and feel alone. Getting 100% Crit from the stat was dumb because it defeats the whole point of a Critical Hit (lucky hit that does more damage) if all you need to do is pump up your numbers on most other pieces of gear and call it a day.
However, I wouldn't mind if you could get higher Crit chance by specifically looking for set bonuses built around getting more Crit Chance (like the old Wood Elf racial of +3% Critical Chance being a flat 3% bonus outside the 50% stat limit) or special buffs/conditionals that gave you guaranteed Crit but forced you to think about how you plan to attack (ex: old Eye of the Storm or old TR Stealth). Buffers themselves were pretty dumb because the damage calculations overcentralized teams around the buffer rather above all else (why bother with a tank if you just 3 hit the boss?). But, for all the stupidity of calculations of buffs, the bolded part was one of the more interesting parts on how buffs work.
Because it was very clear by feel on which support players knew what they were doing (and by extension, which players understood how big buffs were for damage) versus the players that did their own thing and weren't paying attention. The dual wielding greatsword Barbarian sounds like a LOT of fun. The gun Ranger thing is probably going to make a lot of the D&D people upset, something about fantasy gun control or something.
But yes, playstyle diversity would be really really appreciated.
Right now, almost all the DPS classes pretty much play the same "fire off all encounters, hold down At-wills, use daily attack as needed" format with the exceptions being Arbiter Cleric (stack management), arguably Hellbringer Warlock (soul spark management), and arguably Arcanist Wizard (which is slightly different in that you have to apply god mode first and unload encounters during god mode, but otherwise follows the same format). I'd argue that the skill trees back then had a fairly large amount of fake choices (ex: did anyone ever pick Battlewise, which reduced lolaggro, over Wizard's Wrath, which increased AoE damage?). Same went for a decent many of the class features and powers (lolbattlehoned versus something like Seeker's Vengeance or Aspect of the Pack).
But what was good about the trees was that they stuck to an overall concept and had some synergy with gear/other powers/ideas related to the class.
Destroyer GWF was the simple "hit things really hard" spec, Tactician GF was the buffing tank spec, Trapper HR was the fast paced stance swapper, Righteous Cleric was your buffer/DPS spec, and so on.
Where the trees failed was if the overall themes of some paths failed (everyone played GWF Destroyer because it was the one path that solved the GWF's terrible base damage), there were redundancies in trees (Protector was an inferior Tactician, fight me cape dorf), or if the trees weren't updated for modern design (Oppressor became meh when most places had CC immune enemies/bosses, and the few enemies that could be CC'd were easily killed).
as for mod 15, while I did enjoy the faster pace of combat as well as a lot of other things the one major flaw with that system is exactly what is being touted here, the buff classes.
Buffs became so strong that most of the player base was relegated to being useless. Pretty much every single party ended up being 1 HDPS (usually GWF) and 4 buffers. the rest of the DPS and tanks were considered inconsequential and ignored.
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they made balance easier, okay, there are 3 things in every build to buff/nerf magnitude and % of dmg.
Im in love with tricky games and i love the thing that you can use melee and bow, rifle/sword.
the cooldown thing was present before too in any case, cause only buffers were able to keep (personal buffs) up, the trickest hr rotation become 'a skill every 3 seconds'.
The new system is not perfect. But the old one was also limping on all legs. When the damage of the DPS was not dependent on the DPS of the player ... IMHO, this is very bad.
a system in which there is no need for tanks - no healers, no damage. Only oneshots, multiplying buffs and running from door to chest almost without stopping. The tower of the magician - that would not be the same as it is under the old system - Halaster would be oneshot down and that's all.
the old system had one big flaw - ignoring all the dungeon mechanics.
and even if I understand and remember everything, then there wasn’t such a variety in builds as in our memory. There was always one assembly that was more profitable than everyone else and everyone used it.
PS. Well, the summary -
Do I want the development and further evolution of the current class mechanics - yes.
Do I want the M15 mechanics to return as they were - no.
But if you take into account the very beginning of the game ... then it was more like M16 than M15 IMHO, in terms of pace and machanics of the game.
tanks tanked, healed the healers, dd caused damage ... it was necessary here on the same Valindra - to divide sectors among themselves, and to close portals.
And then what? Vampirism, Recovery, 100500 buffs that multiply among themselves. All the dungeons on one face became steel. Run off, not noticing the boss mobs - wait for all the buffs - wait for the skills - run on to the next boss.
How to further develop the game with such a system? What would the tower and the citadel look like if they went out in m15? Halasters are just a one-shot at 3 phases, the stronghold is shots of bosses, without their mechanics ... Would that be interesting?
Instead, the devs spend a year and a half letting the game rot away while they work on their massive, buggy, broken overhaul that people are still unhappy with a year later - hence this thread.
The thing is that lots of people didnt know it, and the use wasnt massive. Also in that moment, most people used to bug bosses going out of the map (castle never, valindra tower, malabog castle) so they didnt bother to learn how to stack buffs because they could bug the bosses.
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Also, I'm not saying they should have done a magical rollback and return to an exact replica of the old game. Rolling back specific changes such as linear stat returns and the proliferation of buffs doesn't mean we have to accept old, bad mechanics that were done away with. For instance, debuffs were reigned in at some point in an undocumented change after the HV set got fixed to add a hard cap to debuffs. Later it was changed again to the soft capped system that made debuff stacking less desirable.
Anyway, to try and sum up my point, a few changes to revert bad decisions could have fixed the issues that dragged the game down from mod 12 to 15. These would have been quicker to implement and introduced far fewer bugs than rebuilding everything from scratch.
Now each class and spec is a copy of another and its sad.
The rest of what was removed I never cared much about but removing the tree and boon points and making each build a copy now thats just down right bad.
Anyone who understands even minutely how much of a terrible idea that is and how close the game came to dying completely would never be thoughtless enough to even suggest going back to it.
There were literal thousands of posts explaining in great detail how much strain and perpetual Power Shift was occurring Pre Mod16, myself included spent exhaustive hours explaining why Mod16 would improve the majority when given the chance to people before it launched.
The only "fun" you're missing is being able to lolstomp content solo with grossly inflated stats and then still be deluded enough to raise complaints that content is "too easy" which forces Power Shift requiring mandatory compensational Power Shift on the Player Side, further inflating stats grossly and making the incessant demands of the entitled sub-sect of this community for Balance and Fixes impossible to fulfill.
The game is vastly improved since Mod16, no-one is a power unto themselves in content, no matter how maxed out they become and the Dev. team has the breathing room to make improvements, get on top of issues as best they can and seek avenues to improve areas by following the advice of the knowledgeable Veterans of the community.
Don't try to ruin that.
The only people that can ruin it, is Cryptic. They have done this before and will do so again and again.
This whole thread is very pointless, Thomas Foss told us these changes are permanent on a Live Stream almost one year ago. They basically burned those bridges behind them and there is no going back. Most of us were unhappy about the changes, since those changes, we either adapted or left. The game is not hard, in fact I find it to be more pathetic than ever, as in I feel pity upon it, and heavyhearted for those who blindly grind rAD in stale dungeons to better their character for the next module.
If you are old or new, and you really need things for this game, please feel free to attend my new contest on April 5th. It is a simple game and you don't need to worry about the game mechanics to play it.
But as far as the meta of cleric buffing one dps during a dungeon run, was stupidly boring. "Hey cleric, bind me!" "Hey cleric do you have me bound?" "How come it seems I'm not getting exalted?"
"That's because you keep complaining that you aren't getting buffed when you have been the whole time."
This current system playing Devout is annoying because after all this time it still seems the majority of the player base think healing is unlimited. Which it was pre-mod 16.
You know I played cleric on preview server just before mod 16 went to live and the class was actually designed differently. I had experimented so much with it and discovered that devout at that time could put out more damage than the arbiter build. I think I wasn't the only one who discovered this and they actually totally redesigned the cleric before the mod went live. Every few days preview got a patch and it almost always had drastic cleric changes. I was constantly laughing because from implemented preview to end preview the class no longer resembled the initial introduction on preview. Feats that totally didn't and still don't make any sense.
The limitations of the Devout being able to heal constantly have been drastically limited but the constant damage spam in dungeons has remained the same from mod 15 into 16+. However; it was actually nice pre mod 16 for cleric since their encounters actually did both heal and dmg simultaneously. This totally doesn't exist anymore.
If anything I want back the starting Ability Score roll options, the multiple feat options that dont lock you into using paper or plastic choices. And the faster paced combat.
Attribute Roles
I don't even know, if they hold all that much sway on my character anymore. However the general idea behind rolling dice in the game to make these attributes was to generate a variety of possibilities. This idea that you start the game with fixed attributes, and just add a few points as you level, is not in the spirit of D&D, in any edition that you play.
Feats
They have these five stupid A/B switches in place of the old feats. This gives you 32 variations, if I did my powers of 2 correctly. If they had made it 3 options (A, B, or C) the variation jumps up to 243 variations. There was 33 Feats in the old tree and all I am saying is, add 5 more back in to get more variety with the builds.
Power Cooldowns
I am not even talking about the daily. I get that it is a superpower that I need to wait for build up. During solo PvE, the encounter cooldown has me killing a mob, waiting 30 to 40 seconds and move on to the next mob. This just slows down the combat and players want to move from mob to mob, it isn't about deaths, at least not in my opinion. I have no problem, if I bite off too much and get kill, and return to rest at the campfire. But having about the same wait time between fights makes crossing a map dull. So many players, instead of fighting across the map, they just avoid fights to get to the objective. The game quickly degrades into dashing from Heroic Encounter to Heroic Encounter, waiting for the BHE and dashing over there. It isn't like those mobs are going to stop me.
Making changes in those areas alone would be such a great improvement to the current game. But let's face facts, Cryptic won't do it.