Well, i have ViP since the day it started and i had allways over a year of ViP time remaining... until last year. I didn't buy any more ViP time during the "seasonal sale" since the discount was simply a kick in the nether regions. The removal of the daily extra gifts during the Winter Festival was also just adding insult to injury.
So, before anything is done to ViP, there might be a few things that should change first: - charging ZEN should reward account-wide in game goodies again, and this time they should work right from the start without forcing the players to have to contact the support to sort things out. - seasonal sales should give better discounts then the discount coupons one can find in game. - regular discount coupons should range between 25-45% and be universal. I mean, you do want people to buy ViP/stuff between those big seasonal sales, right?
ViP is pretty much the best there is in the ZEN shop for new and vet. players, and while it could use some fresh perks that go along with fresh ranks, there're problems that should be much higher on the "making the game better" to-do list.
On a personal note, could someone pretty please fix the bloody Improved Bag of Holding i have stored in my bank and never used but is suddenly patched to "Bound (Account)"? Thank you.
Having read all the post, I think you have no way to change vip and keep people happy.
At this point, I think your best bet is to create a new VIP service and maintain the actual one. New service could not have keys, have similar QoL things and other things like selectable rewards.
I believe in paying for my entertainment if it's up to par. if they did something like this and the features were actually worth while I'd give them actual cash money for it. I do understand they have to keep the lights on. Just don't mess with the vip! lol. as long as they didn't duplicate most things I'd even be ok with some small over lap. I can see the downside is vip has some services that are indispensable like travel post. expecting new players who don't have years behind of vip to pay 20 dollars a month for services might be a bit much. ofc, the real audience for a pay service would probably be the veterans who have been clamouring for certain quality of life issues for years now. if they had a gate way that console could access from their computer for things like professions and moving inventory around.. like I said earlier. shut up and take my money!
your suggestion is a childish slight of hand that most people over the age of 6 would see right though and it would create an even worse outrage that they would think we were stupid enough to fall for it. if you are a kindergarden teacher the ploy might work in your classroom. if you have an actual room of monkeys it's a good ploy. but if you're dealing with adults who have been playing a game for years you might just insult your customers intelligence that way. it's a very good way to lose your customer base. I know if a vendor treated me like that I'd walk out the door. they way for them not to shoot themselves in their collective footsie is to not take away things the customer has already purchased and to actually listen to their player base and not do things that are wildly unpopular. working with your clientele to give them the experience they want is the way to keep them. not by conning them with slight of hands.
As much as I like to be the focus of unfounded accusations and dire misunderstandings, (What. Who are you saying did that? Moi?! Sacré Bleu!) you are.. oh, so terribly misguided in your accusation.
First of all, no matter how much you might ridicule them, simple changes on perspective are something that can make or break a company in the real world. (Ah, there was a company trying to sell ready-made cakes that comes to mind, so many problems they had, their products wouldn't sell, just wouldn't sell.. and yet, how could that be? Their cakes were so easy to make..
The answer? Change the recipe, change the instructions, no more quick baking for from now on the illusion of meaningful contribution should be added to the mix. By making the client break and mix a few eggs into it, even when there originally was no need for it, all the difference was made with just one little pinch here and there!)
Take note this is, not the real reason that improved the situation of their industry. The actual reason while different, also just involved a simple change in perspective brought about by marketing. I stuck to the eggs for narrative purposes 'go chicken, go.' Also, "Lo, just a few pamphlets on frostings and behold!" just doesn't sound as good.
Now, that aside. I'll go on to say why you yourself by opposing it as you are, reinforce the most important point I aimed to make.
The key word here is, marketing. Even if the changes benefit the playerbase, if they are not presented in the right way they'll be opposed by many that won't think them through enough to notice that they are better off. And VIP keys are a fairly important subject for many that, if going forward the decision on the table was they needed some tinkering, would require a lot of thought not just on what to do, but how to best communicate what was being done.
Using you as an example, you can say that I failed to market the idea of a new lockbox costing twice the keys, with an all around improved loot table. @thefiresidecat is intently set in seeing it as nothing more than a sleight of hand to make us waste keys, even if at the end the numbers could just as easily mean that one two-keys lockbox gave you the returns of three older one-key ones.
You can hate it, you can love it. But any changes will be received with less vitriol if they don't corner the playerbase. Just like those who don't like these updates lockboxes in the last few mods just keep opening the older ones.
The stars are falling, and the old gods silent as death, with the blood sworn to rip you down from the night sky, what cost will pose too high?
2
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
Having read all the post, I think you have no way to change vip and keep people happy.
At this point, I think your best bet is to create a new VIP service and maintain the actual one. New service could not have keys, have similar QoL things and other things like selectable rewards.
I believe in paying for my entertainment if it's up to par. if they did something like this and the features were actually worth while I'd give them actual cash money for it. I do understand they have to keep the lights on. Just don't mess with the vip! lol. as long as they didn't duplicate most things I'd even be ok with some small over lap. I can see the downside is vip has some services that are indispensable like travel post. expecting new players who don't have years behind of vip to pay 20 dollars a month for services might be a bit much. ofc, the real audience for a pay service would probably be the veterans who have been clamouring for certain quality of life issues for years now. if they had a gate way that console could access from their computer for things like professions and moving inventory around.. like I said earlier. shut up and take my money!
Yes some services should be the same ofc. The rewards like keys are what they want to change, and me like @thefabricant would trade the keys for anything else more reliable. QoL or regular items, or profession resources / services.
What I am saying is that if you create a new service, you wont alienate players that already have paid for the old one, and the difficult part is to make new one more atractive than the old one and a way to change from one service to other (the remaining time).
If you force things, even if the new service is better, people will complain. 100%.
your suggestion is a childish slight of hand that most people over the age of 6 would see right though and it would create an even worse outrage that they would think we were stupid enough to fall for it. if you are a kindergarden teacher the ploy might work in your classroom. if you have an actual room of monkeys it's a good ploy. but if you're dealing with adults who have been playing a game for years you might just insult your customers intelligence that way. it's a very good way to lose your customer base. I know if a vendor treated me like that I'd walk out the door. they way for them not to shoot themselves in their collective footsie is to not take away things the customer has already purchased and to actually listen to their player base and not do things that are wildly unpopular. working with your clientele to give them the experience they want is the way to keep them. not by conning them with slight of hands.
As much as I like to be the focus of unfounded accusations and dire misunderstandings, (What. Who are you saying did that? Moi?! Sacré Bleu!) you are.. oh, so terribly misguided in your accusation.
First of all, no matter how much you might ridicule them, simple changes on perspective are something that can make or break a company in the real world. (Ah, there was a company trying to sell ready-made cakes that comes to mind, so many problems they had, their products wouldn't sell, just wouldn't sell.. and yet, how could that be? Their cakes were so easy to make..
The answer? Change the recipe, change the instructions, no more quick baking for from now on the illusion of meaningful contribution should be added to the mix. By making the client break and mix a few eggs into it, even when there originally was no need for it, all the difference was made with just one little pinch here and there!)
Take note this is, not the real reason that improved the situation of their industry. The actual reason while different, also just involved a simple change in perspective brought about by marketing. I stuck to the eggs for narrative purposes 'go chicken, go.' Also, "Lo, just a few pamphlets on frostings and behold!" just doesn't sound as good.
Now, that aside. I'll go on to say why you yourself by opposing it as you are, reinforce the most important point I aimed to make.
The key word here is, marketing. Even if the changes benefit the playerbase, if they are not presented in the right way they'll be opposed by many that won't think them through enough to notice that they are better off. And VIP keys are a fairly important subject for many that, if going forward the decision on the table was they needed some tinkering, would require a lot of thought not just on what to do, but how to best communicate what was being done.
Using you as an example, you can say that I failed to market the idea of a new lockbox costing twice the keys, with an all around improved loot table. @thefiresidecat is intently set in seeing it as nothing more than a sleight of hand to make us waste keys, even if at the end the numbers could just as easily mean that one two-keys lockbox gave you the returns of three older one-key ones.
marketing a bad product is still a bad product and people can see thru marketing that the product is still bad. a lock box costing 2x the keys will still be the same lockbox. having .16 odds on the best thing, tripled is still bad. and it's not the chase item that is the bread and butter that makes lockboxes worth while. it's the other things in the lock boxes. it's a bad deal. when i do buy keys it's generally not because I'm chasing the grand prize (although i'm pleased when I do get one) it's generally because i need marks, or im chasing a comp or something like that. yeah it's slightly cheaper to buy marks or buy the pack on the ah to open but sometimes it's not. or I feel like taking my chances. charging 2x as much for that is insulting.
you can put lipstick on the pig.. that doesn't make it a fashion model. it's still a barnyard critter.
how about they leave it all alone and keep giving us the product that is working as intended.
this is an old thread and some of these things we do have now. but there are still some good ideas in here. context on this thread for years they had a feature when you were in a dungeon you could open the chest and then decline it if you disliked the contents. they decided to change this and called it an exploit even though it had a button there for it. they said they weren't going to ban anyone for using it. this was shortly after they'd taken coalwards out of the tradebar store after a campaign of misinformation to the player base. I wasn't used to legendary keys so I had the pricing wrong on them. but there are still some really good points in the debate from armadeonax. this conversation got badly derailed after re-reading thru it. but the point is microtransactions. lower priced items for real money, bound to account or just services would have a much wider audience than the super expensive prices in the zen market. the zen market being expensive makes sense since most people are just using ad to purchase instead of real money. but if there was a cash store with no conversion option if things were in an actual microtransaction zone you'd see a lot more casual money. 5 dollars is nothing. 50 is something. the volume for casual money is a lot richer than the volume for serious money. if you don't want the debate about that skipping the posts from me mordekai and armandeoux would be the way to go.
in hindsight the outcome from changing the chest peek, is I personally run a lot less dungeons. I made a comment that 5 to 10 dungeons a day. I just don't do that anymore. the keys are a still a set back. especially when coupled with the reroll being 5k per and most of the rolls being no good.
For me legy mounts are too rare and too expensive in auction house. There should be a possibility to get a mount without paying 8 Mio AD. Maybe 2 Mio would be ok. I play the game for a year now and still have no lagey mount because I haven't had the luck to get one with my VIP keys. It should be something special, yes, but there should be an opportunity to get one after some months of playing without paying so many AD, which I need for my enchantments and runestones... So increasing the drop rate is fine, but reduce the keys from VIP is maybe not the right way. Or there should be e maximum of opened lockboxes that grants you a legy mount like it is with refinement and wards. Maybe after the first 100 opened lockboxes the chance to get one in the next lockbox is 100%. Afterwards it is like it is now.
An increased cap for AD (115k) is a really good idea. That would increase the value of VIP.
For me teh best things of VIP are: - the key - no injuries - no costs in auction house - the mobile travel opportunity ("Reise wegweiser")
In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:
VIP Example
Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.
10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.
Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.
A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000
Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires
Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.
Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.
I know its just and example but you want to improve the current vip so people actually want it, not make it worst...
Best thing of vip, well aside from the useless potions.... everything, but i can't imagine my life without portal/bank/mail
-The vip currency is a good idea But we should still get reroll tokens on top of the currency (we get 3 per day its not like that influences the game too much) Make that currency be tarmalune bars and update the store, and gg. Right now there are only 2 things i buy with them, res scrolls and hp stones, the rest is pretty much useless/overpriced (2400 bars for an epic mount!! really?)
-Messing with vip keys is a bad idea, 10-15 per month? LOL!!
Getting something decent is already hard enough, and unless you gave the same % chance on getting something good as some people had upon mod 18 release ( ) it would make no difference if you increased lockboxes %.
We should still get the 30 keys (and a chance to claim them all at once, some people can't log in every day and that leads to a loss of a key) and add a streak breaker, i'm one of those that has opened thousands of boxes and never got anything legendary yes i'm that unlucky!! i can be in a stadium with 50k people and if a brick falls out of nowhere it will hit me 100%
- 15% more ad is nothing tbh, 15k ad is good for a new player but for a old one doesn't mean much
- Changing loadouts without a campfire should have been introduced a long time ago to vip
- Removing vip ranks thats another no no
So you are telling me that a new player can just get into the game, get 1 month of vip and get the same rewards as me that has had vip for years?? yeah.... hell no!, i didn't buy 12 months of vip in the beginning so i remember when i struggled with injuries, running all across the map to a portal, needing a campfire to invoke, having to go to PE to be able to access my bank , increasing my rank gave that feeling of achievement that the game used to have...
- 1% adicional hp is meh, make it 1-12% based on rank (maybe too op)
- Making everyone pay for posting fees would make people trade expensive stuff between each other and not use auction house and it wouldn't solve anything...
I would say to give vip people with more than 1 or 2 lvl 80 characters extra campaign currency or extra seals but that would be too much
4
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited January 2020
The most important thing to realize with the lockbox key change is it is not a change made in a vacuum. It makes keys which do not come from VIP significantly better, while it leaves VIP "the same" which is devaluing VIP in comparison to it. Unless the keys from VIP and the keys obtained from the zen store are functioning differently, changing the keys in the manner proposed in the initial post will not under any circumstances result in a situation where you get the same value for money from the VIP keys.
Then other things without a common theme: *Summon once for everyone: when you pray once, all your characters receive the benefits of it, would save a lot of time swapping between every one of them to summon, basically idling between a lot of load screens. I just don't know if it is possible due to the characters being offline... or add a button to the character selection that lets you pray in the menu directly, to save you from loading that many times.
your suggestion is a childish slight of hand that most people over the age of 6 would see right though and it would create an even worse outrage that they would think we were stupid enough to fall for it. if you are a kindergarden teacher the ploy might work in your classroom. if you have an actual room of monkeys it's a good ploy. but if you're dealing with adults who have been playing a game for years you might just insult your customers intelligence that way. it's a very good way to lose your customer base. I know if a vendor treated me like that I'd walk out the door. they way for them not to shoot themselves in their collective footsie is to not take away things the customer has already purchased and to actually listen to their player base and not do things that are wildly unpopular. working with your clientele to give them the experience they want is the way to keep them. not by conning them with slight of hands.
As much as I like to be the focus of unfounded accusations and dire misunderstandings, (What. Who are you saying did that? Moi?! Sacré Bleu!) you are.. oh, so terribly misguided in your accusation.
First of all, no matter how much you might ridicule them, simple changes on perspective are something that can make or break a company in the real world. (Ah, there was a company trying to sell ready-made cakes that comes to mind, so many problems they had, their products wouldn't sell, just wouldn't sell.. and yet, how could that be? Their cakes were so easy to make..
The answer? Change the recipe, change the instructions, no more quick baking for from now on the illusion of meaningful contribution should be added to the mix. By making the client break and mix a few eggs into it, even when there originally was no need for it, all the difference was made with just one little pinch here and there!)
Take note this is, not the real reason that improved the situation of their industry. The actual reason while different, also just involved a simple change in perspective brought about by marketing. I stuck to the eggs for narrative purposes 'go chicken, go.' Also, "Lo, just a few pamphlets on frostings and behold!" just doesn't sound as good.
Now, that aside. I'll go on to say why you yourself by opposing it as you are, reinforce the most important point I aimed to make.
The key word here is, marketing. Even if the changes benefit the playerbase, if they are not presented in the right way they'll be opposed by many that won't think them through enough to notice that they are better off. And VIP keys are a fairly important subject for many that, if going forward the decision on the table was they needed some tinkering, would require a lot of thought not just on what to do, but how to best communicate what was being done.
Using you as an example, you can say that I failed to market the idea of a new lockbox costing twice the keys, with an all around improved loot table. @thefiresidecat is intently set in seeing it as nothing more than a sleight of hand to make us waste keys, even if at the end the numbers could just as easily mean that one two-keys lockbox gave you the returns of three older one-key ones.
You can hate it, you can love it. But any changes will be received with less vitriol if they don't corner the playerbase. Just like those who don't like these updates lockboxes in the last few mods just keep opening the older ones.
yes not cornering the player base is good, but not doing things to hamster over the player base regardless of the way you try and market it is even better. because you can spin things doesn't mean you should. it's not how you gain trust. it's how you gain a reputation as a used car salesman.
Having read all the post, I think you have no way to change vip and keep people happy.
At this point, I think your best bet is to create a new VIP service and maintain the actual one. New service could not have keys, have similar QoL things and other things like selectable rewards.
I believe in paying for my entertainment if it's up to par. if they did something like this and the features were actually worth while I'd give them actual cash money for it. I do understand they have to keep the lights on. Just don't mess with the vip! lol. as long as they didn't duplicate most things I'd even be ok with some small over lap. I can see the downside is vip has some services that are indispensable like travel post. expecting new players who don't have years behind of vip to pay 20 dollars a month for services might be a bit much. ofc, the real audience for a pay service would probably be the veterans who have been clamouring for certain quality of life issues for years now. if they had a gate way that console could access from their computer for things like professions and moving inventory around.. like I said earlier. shut up and take my money!
Yes some services should be the same ofc. The rewards like keys are what they want to change, and me like @thefabricant would trade the keys for anything else more reliable. QoL or regular items, or profession resources / services.
What I am saying is that if you create a new service, you wont alienate players that already have paid for the old one, and the difficult part is to make new one more atractive than the old one and a way to change from one service to other (the remaining time).
If you force things, even if the new service is better, people will complain. 100%.
if the services are different enough why not both? I'd hope that only one or two things duplicate and both be viable but different services. you could even extend vip with an extended QOL type focus and make the other more focused on professions and some other end gamy type stuff. and why stop there. the original discussion was about newer players have one catering to newer players as well. it's been awhile since I've been a newer player so it's hard to think of what they might need or want. but stuff catering to them as a subscription service.
I Read all the posts *squint*.. endgamer, long time vet, guildleader of a max guild used to helping lesser geared players, playing with f2p only players, and whales too.
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback) VIP should be left largely the same. (If it aint broke don't fix it.) Some relatively easy to code additions could be made to add excitement and engagement. Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish) To keep VIP an interesting QOL improvement like it is, but potentially raise the reward for additional engagement.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter) Generally keep VIP as is.
--Add a login anniversary counter... After you login and pray for X amount of days (1000?) AND open X dungeon end chests which reward a token like tarmalune bars, you get a legendary mount. yyy = a legendary pet of some kind. Some set of known high end, desirable even if not BIS prizes for a known set of interactions.
--Currently you can teleport to Moonstone mask.. though there are scrolls in the game (often non-functional but they exist) to teleport to P.E. and the SH. Add an option to set any mailbox location as your preferred teleport. This would limit the possible locations still AND re-energize some locations that players might prefer like the garden in PE.
The rate of free keys - (taken as rerolls/chest keys) As is what we have is already a nerf from after 'keygate'. Its fine, but a reduction here is already a sensitive topic partially due to that. We used to use 1 key until a desired item appeared in an end chest when we would use our key. Now we have had that formalized to 5 chances in a row, which we build 3 per day. So this is not a bad compromise especially as most people now play less, but a reduction from here would be bad.
(Taken as lockbox keys) - Seriously, don't mess with this. Its a firestorm waiting to happen. People love their key a day far beyond its actual value. Its something thats moderately fun after you've spent 3 monthes+ building up, and is a low cost engagement. This is one of the best, popular, recomended, purchased, and continually used rewards NW has ever implemented.
How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP - Not worth the time to change. Its still nice to have a progression, even if long time players have long since maxed out. There should be something long term that one can work on, which is why I suggested adding the daily buildup to a large prize above.
Current Benefits - of the games I play which most regularly include NW, ESO, Warframe and many mobiles.. NW has the least valuable daily benefits of all of them, and its been reduced over time. ESO gives a monthly calendar of daily rewards which can at times be very rewarding. Warframe gives daily rewards AND has large and valuable gifts at anniversary dates (so many logins). They aren't shy about rewarding their 'frequent flyers' with larger gifts after a known period.
Signpost, mailbox, seal vendor, teleport... I used them constantly. Probably at least 3 of those per hour while Im playing, and thats daily. Though fewer hours nowadays since >mod 16 gameplay is boring, I have to at least get my key.
Auction house fees, What are your thoughts in regard to this statement? Disagree. NW auctionhouse is already not very nimble. Larger players will continue those listed activities regardless of fees, or if the fees are too large they will stop altogether. The customer pays for the difference. So in the end this penalizes the one buying which is often the underpowered player while slowing the market for the seller which is often the richer more involved player.
We already know what the auction house without VIP benefits is like because the AH existed long before VIP. It didn't act significantly different. List/delist and undercutting happened back then as well, sometimes by mistake (which sucked to a poor player).
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
As many others have alluded this topic is somewhat putting the cart before the horse.
You cant look at VIP value without looking at lockbox value. You cant look at that without looking at loot value within them, which relates to usefulness. With the >16 system far fewer items are useful so lockboxes can only have value depending on their legendary mount content or if they have potential for a Vorpal/Barkshield since all other enchants are comparatively worthless. This of course relates to AH values as well. Without gear complexity there is no market, only the current grind value for a very small number of BIS items and trash being sold as modern day salvage to those who dont know any better.
So .. IMO don't devalue VIP in the eyes of the player, not even if it makes sense in your Dev accountant brain. Which for right now, means don't change it other than to add to it. Nearly all the other changes mentioned prior that morph pieces of it will be taken as a nerf by a large and skittish percent of the population.
That said, if the coming roadmap hits even a high percentage of the markers C Whiteside has alluded to in streams the above won't always be the case. After we've had some complexity, trust, interest, and view of possibilities experienced over the coming monthes this topic could be raised again, probably much more productively. By then more will be able to think beyond the very limited possibilities we have been constrained with for years now, many can't even conceive of differences unconstrained by todays structures.
Thanks for hosting a feedback forum that actually is getting some Dev eyes AND interaction. These early steps are looking good and hopeful for the future.
Why is it that VIP rewards have to be penalized to improve the lockboxes? The lousy box drop rates have nothing to do with VIP. Why is the rest of the player base not paying for the improved drops. Are you going to double or more the price of keys? That would be a fair thing to do, since everyone would get the same benefit, not just VIP players. Of course, that would kill key sales as well. Reducing the number of keys for VIP holders will have the same effect on VIP sales.
Also, how many others remember when they removed "Peaking" in the dungeon chests. The promise was to improve the rewards from the chests substantially in exchange. The improvements lasted what, about 2 weeks. Then back to the same old junk.
For the VIP bonus: EITHER the Reroll Tokens should become unbound, so I can sell them, OR players should get only one each per day and another suitable reward to replace them. I have so many thousands of reroll tokens that I have no idea what I will ever do with all of them. They are almost useless to me.
For the VIP bonus: EITHER the Reroll Tokens should become unbound, so I can sell them, OR players should get only one each per day and another suitable reward to replace them. I have so many thousands of reroll tokens that I have no idea what I will ever do with all of them. They are almost useless to me.
many of us need them and want still and would be very upset if they got rid of them or devalued them in anyway
Please do this. I put a legendary mount on my Cleric back when it was a buffbot pre-mod16. But now after mod 16 when you ruined my Cleric, I would like to put that legendary mount on my DPS character.
I started F2P and later became VIP after a couple of years. My thoughts:
Currently we get re-roll tokens on all of our alts, so if you take all of those away and the daily key, we lose out on the proposed idea. (we have to choose key OR re-roll token, not get both, regardless of what you do to the odds of the lockbox drop).
10 keys at 3x drop rate (or 15 keys at 2x drop rate) is not the same as 30 keys at 1x drop rate (you miss out on all the other stuff when you miss the chase item).
The problem right now with lockboxes are the plethora of refining points (RPs) in them. The AD/RP valuation is currently (on PC) is 1AD for 15 RP. The alt I open my daily lockbox in has over 1.6M RPs (not including the stacks of epic and legendary stones in my inventory).
My GF used to love getting Zen so we could get keys and mass crack lockboxes (Hence why we built up 3 yrs of VIP each). We haven't dropped a large amount on NW since Jan. 1, 2019 because the value of the lockboxes tanked.
Of the VIP perks I use (in ranked order): 1] Signpost, 2] Seal Trader, 3] (tie) Mailbox, Bank, 5] Profession Vendor, 6] (not used) Teleport to Moonstone Mask.
The Profession Vendor became pointless when the anvil changed to Seal Trader.
First off thank you all for the hard work you all do providing this game. Secondly I would like to wish you all a very happy Lunar New Year.
It is difficult to provide advice if you dont know what the objectives are. If the objective was to increase player numbers then the advice would be give 2 keys a day! If it is to increase income for the company then the advice would be make VIP purchasable ONLY via cash payment purchase.
Regarding the set topics:
The rate of Keys: Increasing the drop rate by x3 but giving 1 key per three days is just an equivalence. Once people run their spreadsheets we will all see this. If it is all of similar value then 1 key a day or 1 key a week at x7 is the same thing. As long as the reward rate is kept constant.
Alternative to keys: A store for valuable items such as coalescent and preservation wards would be interesting. It would reduce the suspicion of RNG, reduce long term player advantage ( from knowing what lockboxes to open) and make the value of a daily key/token extremely transparent. The value transparency would also increase community trust with any changes. If people have calculated the value of a key at 35k AD and the new store sells 5 preservation wards for 1 key they can easily compare the two values.
The VIP ranks are all useful except the Moonstone Mask teleport.
Auction House. Undercutting is not healthy for the AH is quite the assumption. It is annoying but competitive. Economies work on incentives so we need to consider how player behaviour will potentially adjust due to market changes. If there is no rebate on AH fee on de-listing then I would be reluctant to list on the AH. If I do not sell I forfeit the AH fee. This will drive me to the Trade channel and reduce AH transaction reducing the games AH sink. The supply of products on the AH would be reduced. Suggestion. If punitive free AH front running is so annoying then return the AH fee if a product does not sell. This will reduce peoples aversion to using the AH. People would however start to list products for the shortest period of time (24h) so that they could adjust prices if needed. The AH has the added function of tying up game capital so its continued use if of import. Currently the AH only has a sell side function. A potential AH enhancement could be dual buyside/sellside functionality. I want to buy a Radiant Enchantment, Rank 15 but I can only pay 2,100,000. Let me put that bid into the market (tie up my capital) and allow someone to sell to me. It would 1) stop me from checking the AH every hour to see if the price is coming down to my level. 2) reduce the likelihood that I PM the seller directly and try and set up a direct trade (using preservation wards as an AD proxy) and avoid the AH transaction fee and AH sink.
On a serious note. The player base wants this game to succeed. Hence all the input. If the game is struggling financially then the players have to pay else there will be no game at all. Providing products that people want, to entice them to part with their hard earned cash, is important. But if that is not enough then a cash only payment for VIP may provide financial stability to the company and ensure a steady stream of content. People can make their own choices.
For the VIP bonus: EITHER the Reroll Tokens should become unbound, so I can sell them, OR players should get only one each per day and another suitable reward to replace them. I have so many thousands of reroll tokens that I have no idea what I will ever do with all of them. They are almost useless to me.
many of us need them and want still and would be very upset if they got rid of them or devalued them in anyway
Fine, then make the reroll tokens unbound. That way you can transfer them from your alts to your main, and I can sell them.
Provide feedback and answer questions regarding VIP from a Mid Game player having had 1+ years with VIP 12.
Feedback goal
To provide insights and maybe a little humor.
Feedback Functionality
The rate of free keys We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
30 keys with x odds, 15 keys with 2x odds, 10 keys with 3x odds... what's the point? Give the player the illusion of choice? That being said... Give players the option to choose the following daily. Option 1. "Gimme that key" Option 2. "Keep the key, gimme better key tomorrow" Option 3. "Keys only damage my calm, gimme Preswards and/or enchanting stones"
Bonus... If I skip a day or two of play, auto picks the last option I picked. This way I still get some VIP bennies when on vacation or traveling for work.
Alternates to keys How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
I would want to be able to buy anything available on the AH or Zen Store as I can today when I sell the contents of the opened box. Anything else would be considered a reduction of benefits/nerf. Not even remotely interested if you're going repeat the Tarlamune Trade Bar store. Meaning give x then slowly nerf and/or let it die on the vine... Considering Cryptic's track record, this seems super shady. Like they are trying to convince me to trade my Keys (Cow) for this new awesome currency (magic beans).
Ranks How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
I suspect most players have no VIP or Rank 12. So... you have it or you don't. Seems a bit pointless, maybe shady, to string the player along.
Current Benefits Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
1. Per Diem (Keys and reroll tokens) - Basically... AD Opportunity that helps with player stat progression 2. No auction house fees - Takes the stress out of using the AH. 3. Travel Sign post - QoL feature 4. 25% Wondrous Bazaar cost reduction - Massive AD savings when paired with coupon. Supports player stat progression. 5. Summon Mailbox - QoL feature 6. Summon Banking Portal - QoL feature
New Benefits What would you like to see added in terms of benefits? 1. 1 extra bag slot. comes with a bag with 12 inventory slots 2. "Make it rain gold coins" emote with matching sound effects, 3. Auction House monitoring. Use Case. As a player, I want an in-game mail or screen message sent to me when any Legendary Barlgura has a buyout equal to or less than 8,500,000 AD. Bonus... send me a phone text or personal email. 4. On screen DPS kpi. Examples Max single hit damage (this session). Avg per second (current dungeon) 5. Dungeon specific party macros... So when running Throne, I can hit the #8 key and it will message the party.... "stop killing the hulks" or when running VT Hit the #8 key to message the party "everyone run clockwise".
Auction House Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
I fully support removing the AH penalty from the game.
1. I don't care too much about the key. It is gambling. If I win I win, but if I lose I don't get too upset. I don't win very often but I don't expect to win either. 2. The current quality of life afforded by VIP that should absolutely stay, is the sign post and the bank portal. 3. The quality of life that could be added to VIP, could be (1) a general purpose supplies vendor that could buy and sell all common items, instead of the professions vendor, and (2) a "transport to X with 1 click" feature where the X could be specified by the user, instead of X = Moonstone Mask. 4. The bottom line is: You should make it worthwhile to achieve Rank 12 VIP without the damn key. If you can't, then that is your problem.
Frist of all, I think that VIP is one of the in game systems that don't need immediate improvement.
If devs have decided that a rework is in order, I'm guessing they are looking at new players aren't buying in to the higher ranks, and that the one rank idea is based on a need to sell more zen. This is ofc fair, as any company needs income.
The idea of reducing key drops sounds good, as long as zen prices of zen market keys are adjusted accordingly, or VIP keys are treated differently as sharpedge suggests.
I like the idea of earning currency for a VIP market very much, please use the Hell Pit event store as model for this. Have it include VIP only transmutes,overloads, mounts and the option to buy VIP enchanted keys. If VIP players got access to items that non-VIP didn't, more player would of course buy in.
The increased +% HP suggested in first thread is good for everyone, changing loadouts away from campfire is good for everyone, teleport to moonstone mask is good for no one.
Hi all I feel vip is a good thing in whole I feel that if you reduce keys would devalued for all players.i think it should be upgrades giving us better benefits per Tear. Like a Stable were we can park Legendary companions and mounts which would be interchangeable account wide.I hear you guys saying this is a kick to Endgame play who have invested in Multiple legendary items we should be able to trade the extras for items of same value.
Hi, I've played NW for around 3 years and am the sort of person a F2P game is aimed at; as in, I was only vaguely aware of what NW was when I came across it and had it been a subscription based game, I just wouldn't have downloaded it in the first place. As it turned out, I enjoyed the game and did eventually put money into it (as is the goal of making a game F2P).
Where it might differ for me compared to others is that there wasn't anything in the Zen store that drew me to put money into the game, it was the fact that I'd paid for other games I'd played, so it only seemed fair to money into this one. The total money I put in was the equivalent of buying a triple 'A' game off the shelf.
Most of what I bought from the store was extra character slots and extra bank and bag space. However, after searching forums and a lot of people recommending, I also bought VIP. I had around 9 months worth, but due to a couple of offers being included, my rank only got up to 7 (I think). This is where my view of VIP seems to differ from most....
I can honestly say, with hand on heart that, for me personally (and I stress this is just personal experience), I just don't rate VIP at all. After mine ran out, I've never renewed it and currently have no interest in doing so.
A lot of people mention the QoL benefits:
Extra XP - But this is only really a benefit whilst levelling and levelling is pretty quick anyway. Post level 80, the XP bonuses vs the frequency at which they pop are pretty pointless.
Extra XP for companions - I have some XP bonus books for companions that I got from other random drops, but otherwise, I just let them level at their own pace. With level 70/80 content, companions seem to level pretty quickly from my experience.
Bonus RaD - Ok, on the face of it this is good as we all want AD. However, the limiting factor here is the daily cap and does anyone actually struggle to hit that if they really want to (pre-level 80 perhaps, but again, levelling is pretty quick)?
Bonus glory - Maybe good for the 1% who PvP. I honestly can't comment on that.
Daily health potions and no injuries - I honestly don't find either of these a problem. The potions and kits aren't expensive to buy and the kits only take up a single bag slot. With nothing else for me to spend gold on other than swapping out enchants once in a while, I really don't struggle in this area.
No posting fees on the AH - Ok, I'll give you this one. However, this single benefit wouldn't sway me towards VIP. Generally, I never have high enough value single items to sell anyway.
Teleport and summoning of venders - A lot of people see these as essential, but personally I don't. I have a bunch of PE teleport scrolls anyway as they are very cheap on the AH. However, with the exception of some of the levelling areas (icespire peak springs to mind), most of the areas just aren't really that big (it's one of the things people complain about when new mods release). If I do find myself a long way from a teleport gate (which is rare), I just pop one of the scrolls. As for vendors, be completey honest, how often do you actually need them? When in an area that has them, they are pretty close together anyway.
Trade bars - The only things I ever bought off the trade house were the odd dye and scrolls of life. Dyes, with the new appearance system and regular drops in CTA events, are pretty cheap on the AH at the moment. Scrolls of life are good however, so I won't knock those, although to be fair, they are not that expensive in the AH. I still have a bunch on unused trade bars on one of my chars. I know you can get the Deepcrow Hatchling, but I just bought mine of the AH (which I accept relies on someone else having VIP).
Lock Boxes (the big one!!):
Re-roll tokens and keys - This seems to be the key topic of conversation when talking VIP. The key thing here for me is RNG.
Firstly, you are buying VIP. Some people will have played for years and never had a legendary mount drop. Others might get one on their second box. Given RNG, how do you actually quantify the value of keys? My personal experience for the 9 months I had VIP just wasn't good. The best drop I ever had was an epic mount pack that sold for something like 300K (as I already had epic mounts on all my alts). Ok, great, that is 300K I didn't have before; and yet it still didn't offset the real money I put into VIP in the first place (either in value or gaming experience). Perhaps that's why I don't rate VIP whereas others do.
Secondly, some people buy their VIP with real money, whereas others buy it with AD via the ZAX. If you are using AD to buy Zen, I don't have an issue with it as it is just imaginary money. Game time. Just a bit of fun where you might hit big or you might not. If you are buying Zen with real money, then lock boxes start to fall into the grey area of gambling, which is currently a controversial subject.
I do agree with someone's comment that halfing the keys for double the drop chance is not a fair trade as the current chance is very close to zero (0.17 or something) and twice zero is still zero. You'd need to significantly increase good drops.
Also, I find it interesting that a lot of people complain about lockboxes, but when removing keys was mentioned, the clear response seems to be 'leave them alone'. It is like a combination of distrust that Cryptic will replace them with something actually better. Plus, the whole gambling mindset that, despite the poor odds, these keys are going to somehow deliver the holy grail to you personally.
Sorry for the VERY long post. I guess the long and the short of it for me is that if I put real money into the game for VIP, I would want something tangible and beneficial in return, not just some pseudo benefits and a scratch card. If converting AD to Zen for VIP, I honestly don't have a problem with the current system. Fill your boots.
another downpoint of adding a store with things is that it would also affect the economy even if those thing could not go back into the cycle and if they can't go back into the cycle than the value of vip has been lessened because as it is what we get from rerolls and keys CAN be put on the ah. iow it's going to affect the economy somehow. and the economy is in trouble right now. it seems like if something like this were to happen it should happen long after steps have been taken to restore the ecosystem of neverwinter. not before. the ah and drops from dungeons and lockboxes are the only real path to wealth available in the game atm. imo professions really needs to be back in the equation the daily creation of ad thru dungeons and things isn't a real path to wealth for anyone.
there needs to be some sort of sink for rp and low level enchantments in the game. maybe some other stronghold thing that takes more of these things. maybe a impossibility contraption you can build that takes an amount of rp and spits out something random along the lines of transmutes or vanity pet dyes and fashion.
yes i'm that unlucky!! i can be in a stadium with 50k people and if a brick falls out of nowhere it will hit me 100%
couldn't resist this. your example means YOU ARE that lucky. lol I've always viewed luck as ambivalent. it can be for the good or bad but it's when incredible odds have been met. you get lucky and get a mount. that is incredible odds that have been met. you get hit by a brick in a stadium that is incredible odds that have been met. (unless that stadium is made of brick and there has been a terrible earthquake.
Put legendary mounts in the Trade Bar Store. TB's are a type of VIP currency indirectly that people can get more of by buying extra keys. It's very frustrating to open 100's to 1000's of lockboxes over several years and not get a legendary drop. Putting them in the TBS would allow people to slowly work towards just buying one if it never drops for them. This would indirectly increase the value of VIP as people can be assured that eventually, they will get a leg mount if they choose to save their TB's for one. It might also incentivize people to buy extra keys here and there.
Concern People with good luck would get one or more leg drops, and then could buy another.
Not sure what a fair price in TB's would be. If you take 4 TB's per key (idk if correct, just for example), and on average get a leg drop every 750 keys, then maybe 4 * 750 * (1.5 to 2) = between 4,500 and 6,000 TB's, perhaps. If you squint at the proposal and formula, it kinda resembles the change to the refinement system where after a certain number of tries, you are guaranteed success. This could be an alternative to increasing odds on lockboxes. It would also be easy to implement and not require much change.
@quickfoot another concern is it would devalue the leg mounts in the ah. and it would devalue lockboxes. many of us have the amount or well over the amount of tbs you list. it would have to be a HUGE amount of tb to make sense. like 20000 or something. I'm not a huge lockbox opener or anything and just passively from the last time i bought scrolls I have over 6000. imo they shouldn't touch the rate of leg mounts and they shouldn't add it to any store unless it's a cash money thing and bound to account. leg mounts are one of the corner stones of the economy. they are rare and desirable and it's that want that keeps people going (even though its a little bit of an irrational one, they help a little but they are far behind most pets, bondings, runestones adn gear in actual delivery of helpfulness to your toon. they are literally the icing on the cake.
Comments
So, before anything is done to ViP, there might be a few things that should change first:
- charging ZEN should reward account-wide in game goodies again, and this time they should work right from the start without forcing the players to have to contact the support to sort things out.
- seasonal sales should give better discounts then the discount coupons one can find in game.
- regular discount coupons should range between 25-45% and be universal. I mean, you do want people to buy ViP/stuff between those big seasonal sales, right?
ViP is pretty much the best there is in the ZEN shop for new and vet. players, and while it could use some fresh perks that go along with fresh ranks, there're problems that should be much higher on the "making the game better" to-do list.
On a personal note, could someone pretty please fix the bloody Improved Bag of Holding i have stored in my bank and never used but is suddenly patched to "Bound (Account)"? Thank you.
First of all, no matter how much you might ridicule them, simple changes on perspective are something that can make or break a company in the real world.
(Ah, there was a company trying to sell ready-made cakes that comes to mind, so many problems they had, their products wouldn't sell, just wouldn't sell.. and yet, how could that be? Their cakes were so easy to make..
The answer? Change the recipe, change the instructions, no more quick baking for from now on the illusion of meaningful contribution should be added to the mix. By making the client break and mix a few eggs into it, even when there originally was no need for it, all the difference was made with just one little pinch here and there!)
Also, "Lo, just a few pamphlets on frostings and behold!" just doesn't sound as good.
Now, that aside. I'll go on to say why you yourself by opposing it as you are, reinforce the most important point I aimed to make.
The key word here is, marketing. Even if the changes benefit the playerbase, if they are not presented in the right way they'll be opposed by many that won't think them through enough to notice that they are better off. And VIP keys are a fairly important subject for many that, if going forward the decision on the table was they needed some tinkering, would require a lot of thought not just on what to do, but how to best communicate what was being done.
Using you as an example, you can say that I failed to market the idea of a new lockbox costing twice the keys, with an all around improved loot table. @thefiresidecat is intently set in seeing it as nothing more than a sleight of hand to make us waste keys, even if at the end the numbers could just as easily mean that one two-keys lockbox gave you the returns of three older one-key ones.
You can hate it, you can love it. But any changes will be received with less vitriol if they don't corner the playerbase. Just like those who don't like these updates lockboxes in the last few mods just keep opening the older ones.
What I am saying is that if you create a new service, you wont alienate players that already have paid for the old one, and the difficult part is to make new one more atractive than the old one and a way to change from one service to other (the remaining time).
If you force things, even if the new service is better, people will complain. 100%.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
you can put lipstick on the pig.. that doesn't make it a fashion model. it's still a barnyard critter.
how about they leave it all alone and keep giving us the product that is working as intended.
in hindsight the outcome from changing the chest peek, is I personally run a lot less dungeons. I made a comment that 5 to 10 dungeons a day. I just don't do that anymore. the keys are a still a set back. especially when coupled with the reroll being 5k per and most of the rolls being no good.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12934482
So increasing the drop rate is fine, but reduce the keys from VIP is maybe not the right way. Or there should be e maximum of opened lockboxes that grants you a legy mount like it is with refinement and wards. Maybe after the first 100 opened lockboxes the chance to get one in the next lockbox is 100%. Afterwards it is like it is now.
An increased cap for AD (115k) is a really good idea. That would increase the value of VIP.
For me teh best things of VIP are:
- the key
- no injuries
- no costs in auction house
- the mobile travel opportunity ("Reise wegweiser")
Best thing of vip, well aside from the useless potions.... everything, but i can't imagine my life without portal/bank/mail
-The vip currency is a good idea
But we should still get reroll tokens on top of the currency (we get 3 per day its not like that influences the game too much)
Make that currency be tarmalune bars and update the store, and gg. Right now there are only 2 things i buy with them, res scrolls and hp stones, the rest is pretty much useless/overpriced (2400 bars for an epic mount!! really?)
-Messing with vip keys is a bad idea, 10-15 per month? LOL!!
Getting something decent is already hard enough, and unless you gave the same % chance on getting something good as some people had upon mod 18 release (
We should still get the 30 keys (and a chance to claim them all at once, some people can't log in every day and that leads to a loss of a key) and add a streak breaker, i'm one of those that has opened thousands of boxes and never got anything legendary yes i'm that unlucky!! i can be in a stadium with 50k people and if a brick falls out of nowhere it will hit me 100%
- 15% more ad is nothing tbh, 15k ad is good for a new player but for a old one doesn't mean much
- Changing loadouts without a campfire should have been introduced a long time ago to vip
- Removing vip ranks thats another no no
So you are telling me that a new player can just get into the game, get 1 month of vip and get the same rewards as me that has had vip for years?? yeah.... hell no!, i didn't buy 12 months of vip in the beginning so i remember when i struggled with injuries, running all across the map to a portal, needing a campfire to invoke, having to go to PE to be able to access my bank , increasing my rank gave that feeling of achievement that the game used to have...
- 1% adicional hp is meh, make it 1-12% based on rank (maybe too op)
- Making everyone pay for posting fees would make people trade expensive stuff between each other and not use auction house and it wouldn't solve anything...
I would say to give vip people with more than 1 or 2 lvl 80 characters extra campaign currency or extra seals but that would be too much
A yes not cornering the player base is good, but not doing things to hamster over the player base regardless of the way you try and market it is even better. because you can spin things doesn't mean you should. it's not how you gain trust. it's how you gain a reputation as a used car salesman.
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
VIP should be left largely the same. (If it aint broke don't fix it.) Some relatively easy to code additions could be made to add excitement and engagement.
Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
To keep VIP an interesting QOL improvement like it is, but potentially raise the reward for additional engagement.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
Generally keep VIP as is.
--Add a login anniversary counter... After you login and pray for X amount of days (1000?) AND open X dungeon end chests which reward a token like tarmalune bars, you get a legendary mount. yyy = a legendary pet of some kind. Some set of known high end, desirable even if not BIS prizes for a known set of interactions.
--Currently you can teleport to Moonstone mask.. though there are scrolls in the game (often non-functional but they exist) to teleport to P.E. and the SH. Add an option to set any mailbox location as your preferred teleport. This would limit the possible locations still AND re-energize some locations that players might prefer like the garden in PE.
The rate of free keys - (taken as rerolls/chest keys) As is what we have is already a nerf from after 'keygate'. Its fine, but a reduction here is already a sensitive topic partially due to that. We used to use 1 key until a desired item appeared in an end chest when we would use our key. Now we have had that formalized to 5 chances in a row, which we build 3 per day. So this is not a bad compromise especially as most people now play less, but a reduction from here would be bad.
(Taken as lockbox keys) - Seriously, don't mess with this. Its a firestorm waiting to happen. People love their key a day far beyond its actual value. Its something thats moderately fun after you've spent 3 monthes+ building up, and is a low cost engagement. This is one of the best, popular, recomended, purchased, and continually used rewards NW has ever implemented.
How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP - Not worth the time to change. Its still nice to have a progression, even if long time players have long since maxed out. There should be something long term that one can work on, which is why I suggested adding the daily buildup to a large prize above.
Current Benefits - of the games I play which most regularly include NW, ESO, Warframe and many mobiles.. NW has the least valuable daily benefits of all of them, and its been reduced over time. ESO gives a monthly calendar of daily rewards which can at times be very rewarding. Warframe gives daily rewards AND has large and valuable gifts at anniversary dates (so many logins). They aren't shy about rewarding their 'frequent flyers' with larger gifts after a known period.
Signpost, mailbox, seal vendor, teleport... I used them constantly. Probably at least 3 of those per hour while Im playing, and thats daily. Though fewer hours nowadays since >mod 16 gameplay is boring, I have to at least get my key.
Auction house fees, What are your thoughts in regard to this statement? Disagree. NW auctionhouse is already not very nimble. Larger players will continue those listed activities regardless of fees, or if the fees are too large they will stop altogether. The customer pays for the difference. So in the end this penalizes the one buying which is often the underpowered player while slowing the market for the seller which is often the richer more involved player.
We already know what the auction house without VIP benefits is like because the AH existed long before VIP. It didn't act significantly different. List/delist and undercutting happened back then as well, sometimes by mistake (which sucked to a poor player).
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
As many others have alluded this topic is somewhat putting the cart before the horse.
You cant look at VIP value without looking at lockbox value. You cant look at that without looking at loot value within them, which relates to usefulness. With the >16 system far fewer items are useful so lockboxes can only have value depending on their legendary mount content or if they have potential for a Vorpal/Barkshield since all other enchants are comparatively worthless. This of course relates to AH values as well. Without gear complexity there is no market, only the current grind value for a very small number of BIS items and trash being sold as modern day salvage to those who dont know any better.
So .. IMO don't devalue VIP in the eyes of the player, not even if it makes sense in your Dev accountant brain. Which for right now, means don't change it other than to add to it. Nearly all the other changes mentioned prior that morph pieces of it will be taken as a nerf by a large and skittish percent of the population.
That said, if the coming roadmap hits even a high percentage of the markers C Whiteside has alluded to in streams the above won't always be the case. After we've had some complexity, trust, interest, and view of possibilities experienced over the coming monthes this topic could be raised again, probably much more productively. By then more will be able to think beyond the very limited possibilities we have been constrained with for years now, many can't even conceive of differences unconstrained by todays structures.
Thanks for hosting a feedback forum that actually is getting some Dev eyes AND interaction. These early steps are looking good and hopeful for the future.
Also, how many others remember when they removed "Peaking" in the dungeon chests. The promise was to improve the rewards from the chests substantially in exchange. The improvements lasted what, about 2 weeks. Then back to the same old junk.
EITHER the Reroll Tokens should become unbound, so I can sell them, OR players should get only one each per day and another suitable reward to replace them. I have so many thousands of reroll tokens that I have no idea what I will ever do with all of them. They are almost useless to me.
Currently we get re-roll tokens on all of our alts, so if you take all of those away and the daily key, we lose out on the proposed idea. (we have to choose key OR re-roll token, not get both, regardless of what you do to the odds of the lockbox drop).
10 keys at 3x drop rate (or 15 keys at 2x drop rate) is not the same as 30 keys at 1x drop rate (you miss out on all the other stuff when you miss the chase item).
The problem right now with lockboxes are the plethora of refining points (RPs) in them. The AD/RP valuation is currently (on PC) is 1AD for 15 RP. The alt I open my daily lockbox in has over 1.6M RPs (not including the stacks of epic and legendary stones in my inventory).
My GF used to love getting Zen so we could get keys and mass crack lockboxes (Hence why we built up 3 yrs of VIP each). We haven't dropped a large amount on NW since Jan. 1, 2019 because the value of the lockboxes tanked.
Of the VIP perks I use (in ranked order):
1] Signpost,
2] Seal Trader,
3] (tie) Mailbox, Bank,
5] Profession Vendor,
6] (not used) Teleport to Moonstone Mask.
The Profession Vendor became pointless when the anvil changed to Seal Trader.
It is difficult to provide advice if you dont know what the objectives are. If the objective was to increase player numbers then the advice would be give 2 keys a day! If it is to increase income for the company then the advice would be make VIP purchasable ONLY via cash payment purchase.
Regarding the set topics:
The rate of Keys: Increasing the drop rate by x3 but giving 1 key per three days is just an equivalence. Once people run their spreadsheets we will all see this. If it is all of similar value then 1 key a day or 1 key a week at x7 is the same thing. As long as the reward rate is kept constant.
Alternative to keys: A store for valuable items such as coalescent and preservation wards would be interesting. It would reduce the suspicion of RNG, reduce long term player advantage ( from knowing what lockboxes to open) and make the value of a daily key/token extremely transparent. The value transparency would also increase community trust with any changes. If people have calculated the value of a key at 35k AD and the new store sells 5 preservation wards for 1 key they can easily compare the two values.
The VIP ranks are all useful except the Moonstone Mask teleport.
Auction House. Undercutting is not healthy for the AH is quite the assumption. It is annoying but competitive. Economies work on incentives so we need to consider how player behaviour will potentially adjust due to market changes. If there is no rebate on AH fee on de-listing then I would be reluctant to list on the AH. If I do not sell I forfeit the AH fee. This will drive me to the Trade channel and reduce AH transaction reducing the games AH sink. The supply of products on the AH would be reduced. Suggestion. If punitive free AH front running is so annoying then return the AH fee if a product does not sell. This will reduce peoples aversion to using the AH. People would however start to list products for the shortest period of time (24h) so that they could adjust prices if needed. The AH has the added function of tying up game capital so its continued use if of import. Currently the AH only has a sell side function. A potential AH enhancement could be dual buyside/sellside functionality. I want to buy a Radiant Enchantment, Rank 15 but I can only pay 2,100,000. Let me put that bid into the market (tie up my capital) and allow someone to sell to me. It would 1) stop me from checking the AH every hour to see if the price is coming down to my level. 2) reduce the likelihood that I PM the seller directly and try and set up a direct trade (using preservation wards as an AD proxy) and avoid the AH transaction fee and AH sink.
On a serious note. The player base wants this game to succeed. Hence all the input. If the game is struggling financially then the players have to pay else there will be no game at all. Providing products that people want, to entice them to part with their hard earned cash, is important. But if that is not enough then a cash only payment for VIP may provide financial stability to the company and ensure a steady stream of content. People can make their own choices.
Provide feedback and answer questions regarding VIP from a Mid Game player having had 1+ years with VIP 12.
Feedback goal
To provide insights and maybe a little humor.
Feedback Functionality
The rate of free keys
We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
30 keys with x odds, 15 keys with 2x odds, 10 keys with 3x odds... what's the point? Give the player the illusion of choice?
That being said... Give players the option to choose the following daily.
Option 1. "Gimme that key"
Option 2. "Keep the key, gimme better key tomorrow"
Option 3. "Keys only damage my calm, gimme Preswards and/or enchanting stones"
Bonus... If I skip a day or two of play, auto picks the last option I picked. This way I still get some VIP bennies when on vacation or traveling for work.
Alternates to keys
How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
I would want to be able to buy anything available on the AH or Zen Store as I can today when I sell the contents of the opened box. Anything else would be considered a reduction of benefits/nerf. Not even remotely interested if you're going repeat the Tarlamune Trade Bar store. Meaning give x then slowly nerf and/or let it die on the vine... Considering Cryptic's track record, this seems super shady. Like they are trying to convince me to trade my Keys (Cow) for this new awesome currency (magic beans).
Ranks
How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
I suspect most players have no VIP or Rank 12. So... you have it or you don't. Seems a bit pointless, maybe shady, to string the player along.
Current Benefits
Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
1. Per Diem (Keys and reroll tokens) - Basically... AD Opportunity that helps with player stat progression
2. No auction house fees - Takes the stress out of using the AH.
3. Travel Sign post - QoL feature
4. 25% Wondrous Bazaar cost reduction - Massive AD savings when paired with coupon. Supports player stat progression.
5. Summon Mailbox - QoL feature
6. Summon Banking Portal - QoL feature
New Benefits
What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
1. 1 extra bag slot. comes with a bag with 12 inventory slots
2. "Make it rain gold coins" emote with matching sound effects,
3. Auction House monitoring. Use Case. As a player, I want an in-game mail or screen message sent to me when any Legendary Barlgura has a buyout equal to or less than 8,500,000 AD.
Bonus... send me a phone text or personal email.
4. On screen DPS kpi. Examples Max single hit damage (this session). Avg per second (current dungeon)
5. Dungeon specific party macros... So when running Throne, I can hit the #8 key and it will message the party.... "stop killing the hulks" or when running VT Hit the #8 key to message the party "everyone run clockwise".
Auction House
Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
I fully support removing the AH penalty from the game.
Risks & Concerns
None worth mentioning
1. I don't care too much about the key. It is gambling. If I win I win, but if I lose I don't get too upset. I don't win very often but I don't expect to win either.
2. The current quality of life afforded by VIP that should absolutely stay, is the sign post and the bank portal.
3. The quality of life that could be added to VIP, could be (1) a general purpose supplies vendor that could buy and sell all common items, instead of the professions vendor, and (2) a "transport to X with 1 click" feature where the X could be specified by the user, instead of X = Moonstone Mask.
4. The bottom line is: You should make it worthwhile to achieve Rank 12 VIP without the damn key. If you can't, then that is your problem.
Frist of all, I think that VIP is one of the in game systems that don't need immediate improvement.
If devs have decided that a rework is in order, I'm guessing they are looking at new players aren't buying in to the higher ranks, and that the one rank idea is based on a need to sell more zen. This is ofc fair, as any company needs income.
The idea of reducing key drops sounds good, as long as zen prices of zen market keys are adjusted accordingly, or VIP keys are treated differently as sharpedge suggests.
I like the idea of earning currency for a VIP market very much, please use the Hell Pit event store as model for this. Have it include VIP only transmutes,overloads, mounts and the option to buy VIP enchanted keys. If VIP players got access to items that non-VIP didn't, more player would of course buy in.
The increased +% HP suggested in first thread is good for everyone, changing loadouts away from campfire is good for everyone, teleport to moonstone mask is good for no one.
Where it might differ for me compared to others is that there wasn't anything in the Zen store that drew me to put money into the game, it was the fact that I'd paid for other games I'd played, so it only seemed fair to money into this one. The total money I put in was the equivalent of buying a triple 'A' game off the shelf.
Most of what I bought from the store was extra character slots and extra bank and bag space. However, after searching forums and a lot of people recommending, I also bought VIP. I had around 9 months worth, but due to a couple of offers being included, my rank only got up to 7 (I think). This is where my view of VIP seems to differ from most....
I can honestly say, with hand on heart that, for me personally (and I stress this is just personal experience), I just don't rate VIP at all. After mine ran out, I've never renewed it and currently have no interest in doing so.
A lot of people mention the QoL benefits:
Extra XP - But this is only really a benefit whilst levelling and levelling is pretty quick anyway. Post level 80, the XP bonuses vs the frequency at which they pop are pretty pointless.
Extra XP for companions - I have some XP bonus books for companions that I got from other random drops, but otherwise, I just let them level at their own pace. With level 70/80 content, companions seem to level pretty quickly from my experience.
Bonus RaD - Ok, on the face of it this is good as we all want AD. However, the limiting factor here is the daily cap and does anyone actually struggle to hit that if they really want to (pre-level 80 perhaps, but again, levelling is pretty quick)?
Bonus glory - Maybe good for the 1% who PvP. I honestly can't comment on that.
Daily health potions and no injuries - I honestly don't find either of these a problem. The potions and kits aren't expensive to buy and the kits only take up a single bag slot. With nothing else for me to spend gold on other than swapping out enchants once in a while, I really don't struggle in this area.
No posting fees on the AH - Ok, I'll give you this one. However, this single benefit wouldn't sway me towards VIP. Generally, I never have high enough value single items to sell anyway.
Teleport and summoning of venders - A lot of people see these as essential, but personally I don't. I have a bunch of PE teleport scrolls anyway as they are very cheap on the AH. However, with the exception of some of the levelling areas (icespire peak springs to mind), most of the areas just aren't really that big (it's one of the things people complain about when new mods release). If I do find myself a long way from a teleport gate (which is rare), I just pop one of the scrolls. As for vendors, be completey honest, how often do you actually need them? When in an area that has them, they are pretty close together anyway.
Trade bars - The only things I ever bought off the trade house were the odd dye and scrolls of life. Dyes, with the new appearance system and regular drops in CTA events, are pretty cheap on the AH at the moment. Scrolls of life are good however, so I won't knock those, although to be fair, they are not that expensive in the AH. I still have a bunch on unused trade bars on one of my chars. I know you can get the Deepcrow Hatchling, but I just bought mine of the AH (which I accept relies on someone else having VIP).
Lock Boxes (the big one!!):
Re-roll tokens and keys - This seems to be the key topic of conversation when talking VIP. The key thing here for me is RNG.
Firstly, you are buying VIP. Some people will have played for years and never had a legendary mount drop. Others might get one on their second box. Given RNG, how do you actually quantify the value of keys? My personal experience for the 9 months I had VIP just wasn't good. The best drop I ever had was an epic mount pack that sold for something like 300K (as I already had epic mounts on all my alts). Ok, great, that is 300K I didn't have before; and yet it still didn't offset the real money I put into VIP in the first place (either in value or gaming experience). Perhaps that's why I don't rate VIP whereas others do.
Secondly, some people buy their VIP with real money, whereas others buy it with AD via the ZAX. If you are using AD to buy Zen, I don't have an issue with it as it is just imaginary money. Game time. Just a bit of fun where you might hit big or you might not. If you are buying Zen with real money, then lock boxes start to fall into the grey area of gambling, which is currently a controversial subject.
I do agree with someone's comment that halfing the keys for double the drop chance is not a fair trade as the current chance is very close to zero (0.17 or something) and twice zero is still zero. You'd need to significantly increase good drops.
Also, I find it interesting that a lot of people complain about lockboxes, but when removing keys was mentioned, the clear response seems to be 'leave them alone'. It is like a combination of distrust that Cryptic will replace them with something actually better. Plus, the whole gambling mindset that, despite the poor odds, these keys are going to somehow deliver the holy grail to you personally.
Sorry for the VERY long post. I guess the long and the short of it for me is that if I put real money into the game for VIP, I would want something tangible and beneficial in return, not just some pseudo benefits and a scratch card. If converting AD to Zen for VIP, I honestly don't have a problem with the current system. Fill your boots.
there needs to be some sort of sink for rp and low level enchantments in the game. maybe some other stronghold thing that takes more of these things. maybe a impossibility contraption you can build that takes an amount of rp and spits out something random along the lines of transmutes or vanity pet dyes and fashion.
Concern
People with good luck would get one or more leg drops, and then could buy another.
Not sure what a fair price in TB's would be. If you take 4 TB's per key (idk if correct, just for example), and on average get a leg drop every 750 keys, then maybe 4 * 750 * (1.5 to 2) = between 4,500 and 6,000 TB's, perhaps. If you squint at the proposal and formula, it kinda resembles the change to the refinement system where after a certain number of tries, you are guaranteed success. This could be an alternative to increasing odds on lockboxes. It would also be easy to implement and not require much change.