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What has changed?- Too many people abandoning tiamat trial
spiorad
Member Posts: 11 Arc User
I have only been able to complete 1 of the last 5 queues for tiamat, people keep voting to abandon less than 1/2 way through. Something must have changed, keep seeing many abandons over and over for last couple of weeks.
did something get nerfed or did tiamat get harder? My toon is item lvl 20k dps, im personally no seeing any reason for the abandons.
Is getting to be a waste of time when you have to wait 1/2hr to queue, then play trial for 15min just to have everyone quit.
did something get nerfed or did tiamat get harder? My toon is item lvl 20k dps, im personally no seeing any reason for the abandons.
Is getting to be a waste of time when you have to wait 1/2hr to queue, then play trial for 15min just to have everyone quit.
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Edit 1: Possible reason for making it 10 man is because all other trials are 10 man and it will cause people to sit in queue for even longer if the system tries to make a random 25 man raid where each party has to have 1 tank and 1 healer.
Possible fixes for this: Adjust the scaling cap again as this content was originally meant for 25 players and now was dropped to 10 but with the same stats.
There are usually just 2 possible rounds, otherwise you will run out of time. If the first round left 2 heads untouched and 3 overkilled, your chances are bleak. It is amplified by the fact that the white Tiamat head is a killer, effectively consuming more time than any other. Nobody knows how to use the white gem (seriously, even the way it can be used does not help much) - and as tanks tend to stand right under the nose instead of sniping from afar, it ends up in wipes with the area inaccessible to the melee dps. (the fun part is, at least in my graphic settings, that the leftover icy area has no longer any indication - and kills within 2 tics)
So yeah, people leave because it is usually plain clear that it is pointless to try anymore. What changed is that now people can judge the progress of the run better.
So you end up with really new players.
As Tiamat is still a DPS check, there is a high failure rate if there aren't enough DPS with the necessary firepower.
Too many failed instances, and people remember that. So they end up not bothering with an instance with a high failure rate.
Also, you must keep the devils away from the clerics so as to not lose time in that phase. People don't intercept the devils where the spawn, they let the devils get free hits on the clerics, stopping and maybe even reversing the charge bar.
White breath is bad, but if people are doing as they should, it won't doom the run. Apart from that, these mechanics are the same as they were, but now everyone should be doing their part, instead of how it used to be where most of the people could just flounder about while a few players carried them.
People abandon because either they don't want to work for their reward, or else because they know that other people won't and thus know that the raid is likely to fail. It is hard to fault someone for not wanting to go through the motions and fight out the timer, only to lose because of others' refusal to engage with the mechanics.
The problem is most competent players don't bother playing Random queues on their DPS characters due to long queue times ( unless in a 2 - 3 + person premade that covers all the bases to guarantee a successful run ) so if there are any competent players in the instance they are most likely on a Support character and those are mostly useless in Tiamat.
1. People don't understand how the white gem works. It does not protect you from the breath like even the experienced players think it does. It merely removes the frozen state if you somehow manage to survive it.
2. Beyond that there is something very wrong with the display of the breath. It doesn't display the patch on the ground and people just run into it over and over and die because it looks like it is clear but it is not.
Run ahead of your team towards White Head to get aggro which will almost instantly trigger the breathe attack that you can safely position away from your team, allowing for an easy burn down.
If you are the person that has the aggro during slow burns where a second breathe or even third breathe attack cannot be avoided you can quite easily time it and move away from your team to proc the breathe attack at a safe location.
Then again, the players in pug groups can't even locate their Shift key so expecting them to use strategy is asking too much.
> The problem with Tiamat right now is the white head.
>
> 1. People don't understand how the white gem works. It does not protect you from the breath like even the experienced players think it does. It merely removes the frozen state if you somehow manage to survive it.
>
>
No, the white gem is bugged and does not work. So your melee dps can't attack while it's breath is active.
The only way around this is to have your party attack in the left side of his head so when he uses his dragon breath your melee dps have room on the right side of his head to attack
A visual glitch on one of the five dragon ground AoE's does not a broken instance make. Find a friend, grab 1 green and 1 white gem and stop complaining. People sucking is not the fault of the developers or the content.
From the useful input on this thread, I would personally guess that reducing the number of people would seem to be a problem. Yup, it's true that some people get carried, don't know how to use gems, or dont know how survive the white dragon. (That's the kind of things that happen in a MMO)
but
Bottom line is that if people keep abandoning - for whatever reason, then there is obviously something that needs to be adjusted.
Before M16 Tia runs could also fail / need many phases if ppl split up, didn't know the mechanics. It wasn't that often, of course, but it could happen too.
If I run tia premade now its as flawless as I'm used to, and I actually don't mind the changes to it too much. If you got ppl actually going for all souls / most souls and talking, as it is a thing in premade, it is still super easy.
But EVERYBODY is doing RTQ. Really. Everybody. We have so many new players that started the game in M16 that were actually scared to do RTQ because they heard it fails all the time, and now they run premade and all is well. In a party with nearly only new players there is next to no coordination. It has to fail, and in my opinion some of the RTQs I have seen I WANT to fail, because thats the only way ppl actually learn something in this game now. People can't only do UM and MEs and think they are fine in all queues suddenly. No offense, just my two cents.
I member.
Damn, kids have it easy these days. Back in the day we didn't have no fancy queue system to get in
I personally, just abandon if we don't make it past the third head on the initial run. I would rather take the hit on the 30 minute cool-down than spend 15 minutes to see it fail again. As has been said the white head is difficult if not done right (something that happens far to often) it takes longer and if not killed quickly it will fail. As a side-note I will also abandon if I see a group of
players trying to finish the heads off in the first round. Seriously watch a VIDEO first!
Yes, I know how it works, the I did tiamat what it was 90 runs for a boon per char, in old channels with timed instances or a caller who will check when a new instance should open.
The reason is simple, it only takes a bit cat herding (by someone, doesn't matter who), and some pointers for new player to get enough gems, and a good chance for a single phase kill. The risk of those 15% HP spare on second phase is well worth it.
no complaint there, I have no problem with there being complex or multi-stage runs.
and personally have only seen someone typing tips once. which was of course helpful.
all that being said, with all the excellent input from everyone on this thread - there still is an increase in abandons ( yup, mostly by the third head) that needs to be resolved somehow.
To quote the wonderful Lassor: *Get good*.
Why, in my day, you could fail Tiamat in the closing seconds because of the stupid clock run off before the "you have defeated tiamat cutscene" taking up an additional 6+ seconds. Imagine defeating the final head with 6-7 seconds left but still failing because of a clock runoff.
As gamers, we get spoiled after awhile and it's easy to forget something was at one time hard. It's also easy to forget that after awhile you might not want to deal with certain things.
On the other hand, I also remember people abandoning Tiamat if it looked like it would take more than 1 pass to kill the heads. Everyone wanted to grind it out as fast as possible to get those 80(?) linu's favors.
If there is no chance, to finish a dungeon/ Tiamat run, I abandon it. If I see an absolute lack of contribution by my teammembers, due to lack of dps, heals, tanks who cant take/hold aggro and no gems used, I leave.
The solution to the problem here is a higher min IL and not dumbing everything down, so the last warrior princes, who picks gear due to IL/ looks can finish the dungeon.
They should instead gate content behind a mixture of power and ilvl. Not sure how this should work out for tanks that do not necessarily want to go high power, maybe HP can be used for them instead of power?
[insert random stat/measurable] is the most garbage way of gating content in this game that i could ever imagine. You can be [insert random stat/measurable of monstrously high value] and a [insert random stat/measurable of a modestly high value] can kick your HAMSTER upside down. [insert random stat/measurable] just becomes obsolete once you realize that even at same stat levels, skill still trumps stats.
No systems is perfect. No system will ever be perfect and your idea is just a deviation of item level gating. I've seen people get smoked with 20-30k more power and the right gear than someone else.
What's next? Powers/Rotation checks before you can queue? IL works fine for the purpose it serves. Throwing together 5 random people that decided to pug content.