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ELITE Players are the problem in neverwinter
tigercatgirl
Member Posts: 188 Arc User
It has finally become obvious to me that the elite players, the high 5% with maxed out equipment and rank 14 everything with mythic artifacts are the problem in Neverwinter.
1) DUNGEONS:
The elites wanted tougher and tougher dungeons. When Chult mod was released most of the 90% player base could not do the dungeon. The listed item level and the one people were asking for was like 2000 points higher. When Ravenloft came out, it was made even more clear. You need resurrection scrolls to survive, its a kobyashi maru dungeon where 99% of people will fail. A pure player killer dungeon for the 90% of the mmo players. No one likes to play things that aren't fun or are incredably hard, and no one can remember each and every hard dungeon over time.
So proof elites have wrecked dungeons from the chult mod.
2) PROFESSIONS:
Here the elite crafters of masterwork have wrecked professions. This is because the profession system is suppose to be a hard reset for everyone....but it isn't. Masterwork was not changed in fact it is what made the professions system the terrible thing that it is. Because only a few 1-3% of players probably had any master work levels they choose not make any major changes to the task in them. This then limits all players.
Example for masterwork 1 recipes you need to do 3 tasks. Your reward is a well worn item that is 370/370. It falls between the regular adamantine and is lower than the +1 version you could build anyway. Then you have 3 task to get lvl 2 recipes, and so on and so on. The prize is nothing more than a booby prize from an old carnival game.
So because of these elite crafters every normal player has a screwed up profession system and huge gold sink, which will become an even bigger gold sink in masterwork so much so that you'll give up. So only the elite will survive and you must buy off them. They will become the walmart's. macy's, etc. of the auction crafting system.
GENERAL GAME ENVIRONMENT:
This whole favor the elites and what they want hurts the entire game environment. It makes the 90% have to depend upon an elite player being in a zone or dungeon to help them. The elites get mad because they do not want to be pulling and supporting everyone...so they leave a group or kick the low person out.
This then creates a class warfare system within the game. It is becoming more obvious in zone chats, and alliance chats.
I mean it was the elite players asking for an ad cap increase in the auction so they could sell their stuff at much higher prices because more and more people could get AD easier. So cryptic got rid of salvage to make it harder. Oh yes now you are forced to run dungeons, dungeons others may not know how to do correctly, because remember some were designed for the elite.
In the MMO world many companies hire elite players to work for them. So think if the company hires elite players who are the elite players going to design content for? Not the normal player...no they are elite so they will design for elite players. A game is meant to be an escape, not a copy of the real world and the problems it faces.
1) DUNGEONS:
The elites wanted tougher and tougher dungeons. When Chult mod was released most of the 90% player base could not do the dungeon. The listed item level and the one people were asking for was like 2000 points higher. When Ravenloft came out, it was made even more clear. You need resurrection scrolls to survive, its a kobyashi maru dungeon where 99% of people will fail. A pure player killer dungeon for the 90% of the mmo players. No one likes to play things that aren't fun or are incredably hard, and no one can remember each and every hard dungeon over time.
So proof elites have wrecked dungeons from the chult mod.
2) PROFESSIONS:
Here the elite crafters of masterwork have wrecked professions. This is because the profession system is suppose to be a hard reset for everyone....but it isn't. Masterwork was not changed in fact it is what made the professions system the terrible thing that it is. Because only a few 1-3% of players probably had any master work levels they choose not make any major changes to the task in them. This then limits all players.
Example for masterwork 1 recipes you need to do 3 tasks. Your reward is a well worn item that is 370/370. It falls between the regular adamantine and is lower than the +1 version you could build anyway. Then you have 3 task to get lvl 2 recipes, and so on and so on. The prize is nothing more than a booby prize from an old carnival game.
So because of these elite crafters every normal player has a screwed up profession system and huge gold sink, which will become an even bigger gold sink in masterwork so much so that you'll give up. So only the elite will survive and you must buy off them. They will become the walmart's. macy's, etc. of the auction crafting system.
GENERAL GAME ENVIRONMENT:
This whole favor the elites and what they want hurts the entire game environment. It makes the 90% have to depend upon an elite player being in a zone or dungeon to help them. The elites get mad because they do not want to be pulling and supporting everyone...so they leave a group or kick the low person out.
This then creates a class warfare system within the game. It is becoming more obvious in zone chats, and alliance chats.
I mean it was the elite players asking for an ad cap increase in the auction so they could sell their stuff at much higher prices because more and more people could get AD easier. So cryptic got rid of salvage to make it harder. Oh yes now you are forced to run dungeons, dungeons others may not know how to do correctly, because remember some were designed for the elite.
In the MMO world many companies hire elite players to work for them. So think if the company hires elite players who are the elite players going to design content for? Not the normal player...no they are elite so they will design for elite players. A game is meant to be an escape, not a copy of the real world and the problems it faces.
19
Comments
Having some high hanging fruit is important for the game.
People need to accept that they are not yet good enough skill-wise or gear-wise to participate in the endgame content.
The big problem is people not realizing or accepting this, and trying to be in endgame content anyways. That's when they mess up runs for the geared crowd and create unhappiness. People at 11-12-13k IL have no business in Tong etc. Part of the problem is of course Cryptic that consistently sets the entrance requirements to content 2-3k IL too low.
I ran a RIQ CN on 9.5k alt DC this morning. Group - 13k OP, GWF, TR and CW. OP and GWF were in same guild, TR solo guildless and CW solo. Nice easy run right? Wrong.
They got destroyed on trash mobs! Seeing this I put in 1 HoT during trash and switched back to full buff/debuff for the 1st boss which was a long fight. From that I knew they wouldn't 1 shot the 2nd boss so put in an insta heal for when they decide to stand in the spikes. As expected they didn't one shot it and stood in the spikes.
The CW tells me hes full buff build, how awesome he is at it and how much better his dmg is then mine. Proceeds to tell me its his longest run in there and its my fault because Im 9.5k iL DC who switches in/out 1 buff/heal when needed. I explain to him this isn't my first rodeo and point out the reasons for my actions as above.
He has none of it. So I switch to full buff/debuff for Orcus and tell him watch what happens lol. Surprisingly the team done well... all except him who died on orbs. He raged and ignored us all, we finished the dungeon.
This was an Elitist, clueless player who thought he was Elite but was not. No one needs that type of person when enjoying a game. Don't be that person.
This is the way all dungeons SHOULD be in an MMO ... progressively harder to give players something to work towards and strive for. Why bother with more boons and better gear if you are going to keep running things at the level of difficulty of Epic Temple of the Spider forever?
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
? contradict yourself much ? I see plenty of your comments in the forums regarding you doing elite content and crafting yourself LOL
@tigercatgirl said
END GAME TEAM DYNAMICS
There are really only 4 ways for a person to prepare for end game content where teams are needed for epic dungeons and such. One is by on line reading or videos, two is by chat talk in game, three is by guild members and teaching, and four is by the game itself.
.....
Dungeons, skirmishes, and trials are for teams and need team play. Take earlier dungeons like the cloak tower and make a solo training option. One where the player picks npcs for their team and then runs it. I know this means more programing for you developers, yet it will pay off. If you want people to team up you also need to teach them how too.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12991197
when someone make such outrageous comments such as yourself I always check their post history to see if it supports what they are saying .. in your case it does not
I run dungeons I enjoy or content I enjoy rather than content I hate - example being FBI and upward - and content I feel I can finish in a reasonable time and reasonable difficulty.
Best examples are the end bosses in Malabog's Castle [relatively easy but can be a challenge] and Valindra's Tower [more difficult but doable] - both of those end bosses are a challenge but fun.
I don't find the mountain climb in FBI fun at all - sorry.
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
This is sizeable chunk of why I've gone from playing 3-4 hours per day to 2-3 hours per week. Add on the 4-support meta, the de facto requirement to be in a guild (to pad IL for the elitists, kinda the same issue), and the current self parody Mod, that about rounds it out.
Anyway, I'll let you all get back to the regularly scheduled flaming while I go play something else.
As to the game being aimed at Elite players only... I disagree. There is end game content, which requires end game level characters to run, yes.. this is true. But it's also nothing unusual or even surprising. Every game gets harder as you progress, even solo games. If you make a new character in Skyrim and go right to the big bads, they'll kill you outright. Unless you cheat, and well.. there's that. Players in NW can be really unpleasant, and I've made no secret of my dislike for elitist attitudes, but there's a huge difference been an elite player and an elitist player. This thread indicates the game is ruined by elite players (those with high end characters) because there is no content available for players that are not yet at that level. I would vehemently disagree and point at every single campaign, every single dungeon, and every single skirmish (except MSVA, FBI, Tong, Cradle, and CR) as examples of content that nearly any player that qualifies to run it can do so with relative ease. In other words... MOST OF THE GAME is perfectly suited for low and mid-range characters.
Yes... the best rewards come from those higher end runs I mentioned. *shrug* welcome to life. You have to work hard, and be challenged, and possible fail along the way a few times, before you can get the gold medal (as it were). Crying that you can't get your trophy too just because you show up is typical millennial trash.
I'm not advocating that elite players should simply exclude lower level players as that isn't elite play, that's elitist play. I advocate the opposite actually - it's important that elite players help lower level players learn their way through the more advanced content, and help those players gear up so they're properly prepared. It's an indication of a truly elite player when they do that sort of thing. However, it's equally important for mid-range players to recognize their limitations and work to overcome them. If you are 10K IL, you cannot assume a party of strangers will understand that you've been playing for 4 years, have other solid toons, and know what you're doing - you have to prove yourself. The best advice is to play with people you know (a guild, friends, become a regular on any of the various public channels, whatever). They'll be more willing to help you, and will recognize your ability and be willing to overlook your lower IL.
Now... having said all that, if you're just sad because the game, itself, is hard and you keep dying and really can't actually do anything.... well. The only explanation there is you're unwilling to put in the effort required to make the game not hard because that's all it takes, and frankly, that makes your entirely argument irrelevant from the start. Sounds like NW may not be the game for you. I suggest Skyrim, then enter this into the console: tgm.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
As for Master Crafting. I do agree with the OP about how on how those qualified pre-patch got a complete pass while at the same time the barrier to entry was made even more formidable by the "+1" exclusion. The crafting rework was and is pretty poorly executed.
The new campaign seems to be a love or hate it thing. Personally I think Jim Darkmagic must die a horrible death!
NWO definitely is not one of these game, tbh the content in this game compared to others is absurdly easy if we talk about games where an enddungeon can only be absolved in an experienced group, every player high geared, knowing each other, all connected via chat and even doing so they fail 50 times in a row.
Noone in this game get´s excludet from endcontent if he is willing to run it.
You don´t have to run those dungeons 100 times to get that achievement/success, beside some bugged dungeons. Even being completely unaware of your class and content you get pulled through, no chat, no higher form of coordination needed.
You can absolve every content with 14k chars if you know the class and some might interfere and tell me they did all that on a 13k IL toon with ease.
Elite player (if elite= experienced or skilled) are the ones that carry a good portion of those ones, who don´t care about their char or their build and setup and deny to achieve a higher level of gameplay. Many deny to inform themselve in videos about their class or that dungeon, even if it took 5 min to watch, but insist to run expert and advanced queue up and down.
If you fail to absolve a dungeon in this game, there is only one to blame. Not cryptic, not the class.. no it´s you not willing to inform yourself about the build and way to play your class.
I myself carry dozens of players i never met before through content every week. They don´t ask, they don´t say a word, they just expect to be carried though, they even don´t say "thank you" after opening the chest in 80% of those runs.
So who is the real problem ?
this could mirror some of the empathy vs elitism divide we see a lot of these days..
and the endless circular arguments ^ (by misrepresentation)
There are stacks of cool casual alliances and guilds often with many high end players involved, mostly about helping newer players learn the ropes.. my guild was formed with in mind in 2015 and many have passed through and gone on to joining one of the meta-guilds and alliances..
personally for me D&D is about slowly tweaking all the classes as the game evolves.. I could of poured that into one char and stopped when it could not be improved any more but I probably wouldn't be still here playing nwo.
2c
But if I am paired with player that don´t know how to buff or how to use their class at all, like using Devine Armor instead of Hollowed Ground, skipping every debuff at bosses, making a simple run fail, I get mad.
This is a player , that never searched for any information about his class : "Neverwinter DC mod 15" or "NWO DC build". There are great detailed information about the correct way to play a class, like this one: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQswjajsP098kH3NtIQsBOUsM0bn8uWgBDdZVOMLJS9TL-x4Yjo1evB4jta9vaC7KLaUO-NJtiHkLBn/pub
Atm. i am pretty much informed about 3 classes DC, GF, SW and I work on my paladin but did not get over the point to be "experienced" about the gameplay and wich power to use in a dungeon/boss etc.. I read maybe 3 to 4 guides, watched some vidoes etc. but I only feel comfortible in the prot-paragon, since the occasions to play Devo are rare outside a premade buffer group.
I don´t queue for REQ with my 14.3k paladin, same as I avoid to random-queue with my 16.2k GF in REQ, since I know in 3 out of 5 runs that GF is in trouble doing tong or CR with 3 "uninformed" teammates...that´s what you actually get in random queue.
So I carry with my lock as dps and my DC as a well build powerbuffer and stick with FBI/MSP on my paladin. My GF is somehow "out of function" atm even though I know how to run him, but my experience in random queu is: "You need 2-3 knowledgeable teammates to make those runs fluent."
I am miserable on TR, Hunter, CW and I know how to play my 13k GWF, but have not much interest in that class.
Those chars run leveling dungeons and RIQ at best, no need to upset anyone with my noobish gameplay.
I´d like to be better, but have no time left to inform myself about those classes.
Obviously PUG parties should not have it so easy way to win all the hardest content, but having a 0% success chance in the expert queue is terrible.
Coordinating the zones for caskets in a pug... yeah.. right...
Going back the opening post, I really do believe that the developers have done this because they listened to the people that shouted the loudest and built in this iron door that has shut out the bulk of the player base.
Before I've joined legit, every single pug VT was either going under her, or a failure. You either got friends, or you failed. I'm not sure where you even found a legit run in pug groups. The first week after release it was a rush to get the seals in any way possible (the quest sharing thing), no one even knew how it was supposed to be done.
It took months until the proper way got to the general population..and therefore to pug groups.
In any way, I think there is a basic assumption here, IMO, the bulk of the player base can do TONG without issue, that is if they play long enough to reach end-game.
That doesn't mean necessarily gear / IL, that means the minimal experience in their class, the build, how to form a party, or why/what classes should go into a party, and in general how to join / form one without using the PubQ.
For some it takes a month to figure, gear and be ready, for others years and they are still not up to it. But if we talk about the bulk of players... All the channels (open), alliances, take care of training runs, no IL runs, and whatever.. And that is the bulk of the player base, and not pockets of solo players.
I also need to add that when VT came out the huge gap between the elite and the rest was not as bad as it is now, there were no level 20 guilds for the elite to belong to, there were less items one had to spend a lot of money or grind time on, and most importantly the developers then were more competent than now. This gap will only get worse as the developers don't know how to deal with the power creep and then decide to fix this by listening to only a tiny amount of the super elite.