New gaming model (developers now force people to play content they don't want to play)

dagambit · November 2017

I am not sure if you guys have seen the reviews on Destiny 2's random queue system. It failed in Destiny and has the potential to fail in your game. Yet you choose to follow Bungie and use their gaming model and take away our choice of what we want to play. If I don't want to play FBI or MSP with random's I shouldn't have to, but I am being forced to.

Asterdahl said:
“Of course, we know for many of you it’s about efficiency and that’s why we made a more varied experience the most efficient one. With that in mind random queues had to not just be an alternative way to earn bonus AD but the way to earn bonus AD from queues.”

How is this efficient for the player?

It was efficient for me to run by myself whenever possible on my solo grind, and exciting because I got the challenge of trying complete dungeons by myself. Now the efficiency is gone because I have to randomly queue for a dungeon my group or I may not want to play. Then get penalized for leaving, is that efficiency or exciting?
Also if the dungeon isn’t the daily I need I just ran the dungeon for nothing. Is that efficiency or exciting? If I need VT and I don't get it until my 4 queue attempt thats not efficient at all for me it was a waste of my time to even run those 1st 3 dungeons.
If I queue solo and get in a group with random players that meet the bare minimum requirements to get in the dungeon. Which means they are underpowered (i.e. CN or FBI) then I have to spend almost an hour to an hour and a half stuck at Hati or never make it to Hati quit and then get penalized. Thats not is not efficiency or exciting?

Efficiency is not forcing players to play dungeons they don't want to for RAD and shards for their guilds. It's not good business, it's not good business practice. What do you do when companies stop going good business? You stop doing business with them.
Its exciting for you as developers to see other dungeon get their play time, but it's not for alot of players I have spoken to or played with. I play on XB1, PS4 and PC.

When has it become good business or business practice to force your customers to play something they don't want to?

johnnyreklaw · November 2017

Personally, I'm excited for the potential for the community in this idea. Many players will balk at the random queue idea, but they are not forcing it on you. You are not required to random queue before you can play each day. Yes, some RAD is on the line, but you can do 1-2 more dungeons for salvage and create the same RAD.

I don't think under geared players will be as much of an issue in the future as they are now. Relic Armor was a huge improvement to people running FBI, and now its almost entirely free. Chult weapons have the same stats as Relic or River District weapons and can be afforded on most budgets. Really good rings can be bought with seals and if players have any level of VIP, they should get Rank 7 enchants easily enough. The above is enough to handle FBI and MSP.

There will be new players on their first runs of these dungeons in the queues. This is where the experienced players will either be kind, understanding players or total jerks. You can choose to berate lower-geared players or help them get through it. You can teach the mechanics or gripe at them for falling off of Nothic Stone-Eye's platform. You can party up and be encouraging or xbox message them to leave "cuz you sucks!!!!" If its just not doable, I believe there is a vote to abandon option which, after several failures, the group will probably go for.

The above is where I'm excited. I've seen many players do amazing things for random other people. It only helps the community by reaching out to a newer player and offering advice. If we all band together to gain more knowledgeable, helpful endgame players it just increases the pool of quality players in these dungeons and decreases the bad PUG and Random Queues there are. If we stop focusing on "right now" and look long term, the better investment is in the newer players and teaching them the game. Will it slow down AD gain....a little. But honestly its only when people think about "ME FIRST" that this idea sucks...

BTW: Shards are earned for doing a random queue and wont be for specific dungeons. So on that regard its easier to get those as you only have to run that one dungeon daily.

ecrana · November 2017

johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
If we all band together to gain more knowledgeable, helpful endgame players it just increases the pool of quality players in these dungeons and decreases the bad PUG and Random Queues there are. If we stop focusing on "right now" and look long term, the better investment is in the newer players and teaching them the game. Will it slow down AD gain....a little. But honestly its only when people think about "ME FIRST" that this idea sucks..

I've been playing NW for years and the sheer numbers of players that fall into your "ME FIRST" category have always been more prevalent than the kind-hearted souls you seem to think exist in large quantities.

ME First players aren't going to change their attitudes. Most people don't want to sign on for their hour of play time and hold peoples hands. Some players have time for that and some don't.

I've pugged most of the time solo or with 1-2 other guildies the majority of the time. It's never been an issue for us to pug. The issue for us is pugging garbage we don't want to pug if we want to get our queue RAD. Choice is being taken from us. You can say it's not required to run random all you want but that's just missing the point completely.

johnnyreklaw · November 2017

ecrana#2080 said:

I've been playing NW for years and the sheer numbers of players that fall into your "ME FIRST" category have always been more prevalent than the kind-hearted souls you seem to think exist in large quantities.

ME First players aren't going to change their attitudes. Most people don't want to sign on for their hour of play time and hold peoples hands. Some players have time for that and some don't.

I've pugged most of the time solo or with 1-2 other guildies the majority of the time. It's never been an issue for us to pug. The issue for us is pugging garbage we don't want to pug if we want to get our queue RAD. Choice is being taken from us. You can say it's not required to run random all you want but that's just missing the point completely.

The greater number of "Me First" doesn't make them right. If everyone would be the 10% of helpful players in this game, there would be less trash. When I Started, I was garbage. Someone pulled me and my friends into a party and explained Bonding Stones and Armor Penetration stats to us. We didn't know what those were or how they worked. I now do damage properly and can hold my own in a dungeon. Why didn't anyone else I ran with before do that? I could have been helpful sooner and not struggling.

You can avoid the random queue if you don't want to pug. Simply run 1-2 more salvage runs. That's about my current RAD from running dungeons. Skirmishes generally finish regardless, so the RAD there shouldn't be an issue. Yes, a small portion of your choice is going to be missing, but this really seems a minor issue considering salvage is a viable option. If anything, this is simply saying "I don't want to play with newer players." That mentality will kill the community far faster than any developer changes to this game.

oldbaldyone · November 2017

To be honest, most long time players got into this game specifically because it was a solo friendly, casual game. You could log in, do some stuff on your own on your time, and then move on with your day. Guilds were basically just...there. Most people used guilds for storage and didn't have more than themselves in it.

That all changed with Strongholds, changed more with content that you really couldn't PUG easily, and has continued to evolve now that we have to run specific content hundreds/thousands of times to get what we need. That said, it is still the prevailing sentiment in the game as it is was attracted those people at first.

FYI OP - You won't have quests for specific dungeons after 12b hits. Its just Random Skirm, Random Epic, Random Dungeon.

lordnagy · November 2017

> @johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
> Personally, I'm excited for the potential for the community in this idea. Many players will balk at the random queue idea, but they are not forcing it on you. You are not required to random queue before you can play each day. Yes, some RAD is on the line, but you can do 1-2 more dungeons for salvage and create the same RAD.
>
> I don't think under geared players will be as much of an issue in the future as they are now. Relic Armor was a huge improvement to people running FBI, and now its almost entirely free. Chult weapons have the same stats as Relic or River District weapons and can be afforded on most budgets. Really good rings can be bought with seals and if players have any level of VIP, they should get Rank 7 enchants easily enough. The above is enough to handle FBI and MSP.
>
> There will be new players on their first runs of these dungeons in the queues. This is where the experienced players will either be kind, understanding players or total jerks. You can choose to berate lower-geared players or help them get through it. You can teach the mechanics or gripe at them for falling off of Nothic Stone-Eye's platform. You can party up and be encouraging or xbox message them to leave "cuz you sucks!!!!" If its just not doable, I believe there is a vote to abandon option which, after several failures, the group will probably go for.
>
> The above is where I'm excited. I've seen many players do amazing things for random other people. It only helps the community by reaching out to a newer player and offering advice. If we all band together to gain more knowledgeable, helpful endgame players it just increases the pool of quality players in these dungeons and decreases the bad PUG and Random Queues there are. If we stop focusing on "right now" and look long term, the better investment is in the newer players and teaching them the game. Will it slow down AD gain....a little. But honestly its only when people think about "ME FIRST" that this idea sucks...
>
> BTW: Shards are earned for doing a random queue and wont be for specific dungeons. So on that regard its easier to get those as you only have to run that one dungeon daily.

They’ll need EF resist to get in...

And your prereqs won’t get them passed Hati unless they’re being carried by some really good peeps

Unknown · November 2017

This content has been removed.

mordekai · November 2017

The claims that the random system is the most efficient only applies to the accquisition of daily bonus RAD, when measured by the number of queues a character above 11K has to undertake.
When you factor in salvage, seals, and sub 11k characters, the maths simply don't add up.

If ALL you are interested in is the RAD bonus then great news. It's fantatic! But if you also played dungeons for salvage, and Seals, then for 11K+ It can be a efficient a the current system, but is not guaranteed to be and in most cases won;t be... and if you are sub 11K it is the very opposite of more efficient.

For instance, for a sub 11K character to accumulate the same RAD, salvage and seals they get now from the 2 x EToS "meta", they will have to run one random leveling dungeon, (for the RAD) and two EToS for the equivalent salvage and seals.
So, anyone who says this is more efficient, please... tell me how that IS in any way more efficient. Please... if I'm missing something I'd rather know it and shut up, rather than keep going on about how three dungeons is more than two. Ergo less efficient...

For an 11K+ character that meta is now two dungeons, one of which must be Random. Which is just as likely to end up in FBI/MSP as EToS.
At which point the time it takes and the overall chance of succes becomes a major factor in the efficiency equation. This is because FBI and MSP, and quite a few of the other T2s take longer than EToS. (some are substantially longer...)
So great... you get your daily allowance of RAD from the first random dungeon, which may be FBI or MSP, and then you STILL have to go run EToS to gather the rest of the salvage and seals you ued to get.
Again... how is that more efficient? If you are in a dungeon that a) takes longer or b) fails because the group is made up of a 3/1/1 formation of ill geared 11k players, again... please... how is that more efficient?

For people RAD farming on alts, it is a vastly improved system. As they can now run one leveling dunegon per day for RAD. BUT... many of these people used to use the solo "Private" queue function to do two leveling dungeons and thereby not inflict themselves on the sub 70s trying to learn the game in the leveling dungeons.

People who actually give a toss about the experince of other players have to put that aside and run their characters that are below 11K alongside sub L70 players and dash through an EXTRA leveling dungeon before getting back to their 2 x EToS to end up with the same as if they had done exactly the same but minus the bloody leveling dungeon...

"Me first" is the only mentality that benefits from the new system.

P.S Everfrost Reistance isn;t like it used to be. There is a Periapt that provides 30% ER in the very early stages of SKT. But it is worth noting that you do NOT get that periapt if you buy the Campaign Completion Pack. You still have to go in and earn it... (I learned this from experience...)

maxzius · November 2017

> @johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
> Personally, I'm excited for the potential for the community in this idea. Many players will balk at the random queue idea, but they are not forcing it on you. You are not required to random queue before you can play each day. Yes, some RAD is on the line, but you can do 1-2 more dungeons for salvage and create the same RAD.
>
> I don't think under geared players will be as much of an issue in the future as they are now. Relic Armor was a huge improvement to people running FBI, and now its almost entirely free. Chult weapons have the same stats as Relic or River District weapons and can be afforded on most budgets. Really good rings can be bought with seals and if players have any level of VIP, they should get Rank 7 enchants easily enough. The above is enough to handle FBI and MSP.
>
> There will be new players on their first runs of these dungeons in the queues. This is where the experienced players will either be kind, understanding players or total jerks. You can choose to berate lower-geared players or help them get through it. You can teach the mechanics or gripe at them for falling off of Nothic Stone-Eye's platform. You can party up and be encouraging or xbox message them to leave "cuz you sucks!!!!" If its just not doable, I believe there is a vote to abandon option which, after several failures, the group will probably go for.
>
> The above is where I'm excited. I've seen many players do amazing things for random other people. It only helps the community by reaching out to a newer player and offering advice. If we all band together to gain more knowledgeable, helpful endgame players it just increases the pool of quality players in these dungeons and decreases the bad PUG and Random Queues there are. If we stop focusing on "right now" and look long term, the better investment is in the newer players and teaching them the game. Will it slow down AD gain....a little. But honestly its only when people think about "ME FIRST" that this idea sucks...
>
> BTW: Shards are earned for doing a random queue and wont be for specific dungeons. So on that regard its easier to get those as you only have to run that one dungeon daily.

> @johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
> Personally, I'm excited for the potential for the community in this idea. Many players will balk at the random queue idea, but they are not forcing it on you. You are not required to random queue before you can play each day. Yes, some RAD is on the line, but you can do 1-2 more dungeons for salvage and create the same RAD.
>
> I don't think under geared players will be as much of an issue in the future as they are now. Relic Armor was a huge improvement to people running FBI, and now its almost entirely free. Chult weapons have the same stats as Relic or River District weapons and can be afforded on most budgets. Really good rings can be bought with seals and if players have any level of VIP, they should get Rank 7 enchants easily enough. The above is enough to handle FBI and MSP.
>
> There will be new players on their first runs of these dungeons in the queues. This is where the experienced players will either be kind, understanding players or total jerks. You can choose to berate lower-geared players or help them get through it. You can teach the mechanics or gripe at them for falling off of Nothic Stone-Eye's platform. You can party up and be encouraging or xbox message them to leave "cuz you sucks!!!!" If its just not doable, I believe there is a vote to abandon option which, after several failures, the group will probably go for.
>
> The above is where I'm excited. I've seen many players do amazing things for random other people. It only helps the community by reaching out to a newer player and offering advice. If we all band together to gain more knowledgeable, helpful endgame players it just increases the pool of quality players in these dungeons and decreases the bad PUG and Random Queues there are. If we stop focusing on "right now" and look long term, the better investment is in the newer players and teaching them the game. Will it slow down AD gain....a little. But honestly its only when people think about "ME FIRST" that this idea sucks...
>
> BTW: Shards are earned for doing a random queue and wont be for specific dungeons. So on that regard its easier to get those as you only have to run that one dungeon daily.

ALL bonus RAD is on the line for shipping random Qs.

Also, it isn't about helping other players.. people will either do that or they won't. It's about all new and casual players are now locked out of epic random Q because it will be behind a SKT wall. It's become very clear that the devs could care less about players helping each other, but rather putting AD behind the new SKT campaign buyout.

Unknown · November 2017

This content has been removed.

dagambit · November 2017

> @johnnyreklaw#1518 said:
>They are not forcing it on you. You are not required to random queue before you can play each day. Yes, some RAD is on the line, but you can do 1-2 more dungeons for salvage and create the same RAD.

Are you serious with that statement? the fact that the devs are putting bonus RAD behind random queues is forcing you to do random queues. People who like the bonus RAD have to do random queues, if you don't care about RAD you don't have to do random queues. Wait yes you do if you want the shards to help your strong hold grow you have to random queue. Therefore you are being forced to random queue.

Doing FBI or MSP for 10 shards! Really!!!? Then doing it with under geared players running alts. The only people this benefits in the end is the devs not players. The get to see dungeons that don't get play time, usage go up in their data charts for weekly board meetings. Everyone has to answer to someone at some point the question was brought up about dungeons that hardly get play time. And this was the answer the devs came up with random queues.

It's not efficient time wise for end game players or players with limited time due to other obligations.

titiope · November 2017

Too much people complaining about a 10k AD bonus with RQ . There a lot of way on xbox to do 200k-1mil AD in one day without salvage farm. RQ is a good idea just too much bad player complaining instead of improve themselves,is the same thing in every game the bad player always whining.

sundance777 · November 2017

I second the idea that I am not forced to play in Random Q, nor am I forced to run the majority of the content at the moment.

The only content I feel forced to run is Tomb of Nine Gods as that is where the marks or stones will be if I want free stones to upgrade things in 12b instead of buying them.

I already cannot be bothered to chase 20K rAD by running a dungeon, I run a dungeon when I have time to run, and want the entertainment of the run.

New gaming model (developers now force people to play content they don't want to play)

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