2 Simple mistakes that many players make in eSoT.

jumpingmorks · September 2017

There are 2 simple mistakes I see players make consistnetly when pugging or even private queuing in eSoT.

1, When the first door opens and 2 golems appear, most players fight the golems at the door. This is a really bad idea, most for melee dps. It's difficult to see their TELLS, increasing chances of folks being one shot, espcially those classes/builds that require to be in melee range. Tank needs to be able to have the time to pull this guys out of the doorway.

For HDPS groups that just want to pull everything to the door, it's usually pretty hard to walk past them, they physically block passage. Have someone pull the 2 golems out of the doorway then run past to last door.

2. After you defeat the ambush there are 2 more groups, many players will skip the next group and run to the last group of enemies, this usually means they then have to go back and mop up the slower moving foes.

It's quicker to kill each of these 2 groups when you meet them. Failing that, if you insist that killing both groups together is faster, have the first person to create HATE on each of the 2 groups run out of line of sight of the first group of foes, ensuring they have to run to the camp site in order to require line of sight so that they can attack.

ollybongo89 · September 2017

I run this as a tank in private alliance made groups, i dont see what the problem is here.
Melt the 2 golems then run thru marking everything staying as a group, the enemies seem to keep up and we blow them away in one massive group..
Maybe you should get some dark enchants if you cant keep up with the group

jumpingmorks · September 2017

ollybongo89#3420 said:
I run this as a tank in private alliance made groups, i dont see what the problem is here.

Melt the 2 golems then run thru marking everything staying as a group, the enemies seem to keep up and we blow them away in one massive group..

Maybe you should get some dark enchants if you cant keep up with the group

How many Darks does a CW need to keep up with a GF using ITF? I also wonder whether this question will predispose you to assuming I main a CW or GF. People can be such fun

silverkelt · September 2017

its annoying we cant just pull the whole skirmish!

that would be useful! darn doors

greywynd · September 2017

Takes the same amount of time to kill everything as you come across it as it does to pull everything to one spot.

ollybongo89 · September 2017

I only use one dark r12 and itf increases the whole groups speed.
I think its better as silverkelt says pulling as many enemies at the door and mowing em down in one masive frenzie is actually faster as you dont have slow dithering players looting crud, it all drops in one place for a quick cleanup

ecrana · September 2017

I think the most effective method way to pug is to put down my controller for 5 minutes, go make a sandwich and then come back and see if the group has finished the dungeon.

hadestemplar · September 2017

jumpingmorks said:
There are 2 simple mistakes I see players make consistnetly when pugging or even private queuing in eSoT.

1, When the first door opens and 2 golems appear, most players fight the golems at the door. This is a really bad idea, most for melee dps. It's difficult to see their TELLS, increasing chances of folks being one shot, espcially those classes/builds that require to be in melee range. Tank needs to be able to have the time to pull this guys out of the doorway.

For HDPS groups that just want to pull everything to the door, it's usually pretty hard to walk past them, they physically block passage. Have someone pull the 2 golems out of the doorway then run past to last door.

2. After you defeat the ambush there are 2 more groups, many players will skip the next group and run to the last group of enemies, this usually means they then have to go back and mop up the slower moving foes.

It's quicker to kill each of these 2 groups when you meet them. Failing that, if you insist that killing both groups together is faster, have the first person to create HATE on each of the 2 groups run out of line of sight of the first group of foes, ensuring they have to run to the camp site in order to require line of sight so that they can attack.

Players do mistakes, because due lackage of combat experience, and some due inability to learn from mistakes..

1) When 2 golems appear, is better to hit them both in same place. i mean if party have hDps, not just dps, they melt within moment, so no point play cat and mouse. You using AoE powers and deal with them.
If group have normal dps, not high one = same way.. < Any heal will keep tank alive for couple moments.. Unless party have paper tank.

2) same stuff as first mentioned plan.. Why waste time and deal with enemies 1 by 1? If you with decent dmg, by using aoe will deal with them all in same time.. ?
The problem mostly comes, that hotshots, not tank run in front....

Key of win there even with lower GS, is dodging, rather eating incoming hits...

hustin1 · September 2017

Another tip: don't immediately kill the drakes at the boss fight. When they die the boss gets enraged and does a LOT more damage. Do your best to ignore the drakes until he is down.

thefiresidecat · September 2017

Meh this skirmish is always down in under 4 minutes no mistakes u can make imo. It's all good.

wintersmoke · September 2017

ecrana#2080 said:
I think the most effective method way to pug is to put down my controller for 5 minutes, go make a sandwich and then come back and see if the group has finished the dungeon.

Now I want a sammich.

durugudesu · September 2017

This post was meant for relatively newer people with lower item level.

Not to be used to feed egos but maybe it was.. maybe it was.

Well played @jumpingmorks >:)

jumpingmorks · September 2017

durugudesu said:
This post was meant for relatively newer people with lower item level.

Not to be used to feed egos but maybe it was.. maybe it was.

Well played @jumpingmorks >:)

Actually I wasn't expecting a HAMSTER waving competition but I guess I should have by now

kisakee · September 2017

I like killing everything where it spawns, those hasty runs are just bad for my head. And there's no fun running like a headless chicken. Yes, really - there are people having fun running stuff.

At least the best tip is to not run with randoms.

Edit: You can prevent the boss from throwing fire bombs if everyone stands nearby him.

masticore · September 2017

I don't see a problem with nuking the drakes at the boss. After they die just drag him out of the RED CIRCLES...

marcm713 · September 2017

As a tank - and not an ultimate unkillable tank- what is the best way to handle the final boss fight? I found going straight for the boss without dealing with the drakes first means trouble for the group. Too much red leads to a dead party. Pulling the drakes to the side first seams to keep more people alive for longer. But seeing above...is going for the boss directly the best course of action and me pulling the drakes off the team actually doing more harm?

Just a curious OP.
Thank you,
Mc

masticore · September 2017

As a gf, I run straight for the boss and hard mark him. Before I get to him, I stutter step long enough for the drakes to pounce and hit them all with enforced threat, drag all three to where their backs are to the group and let the dos nuke the drakes one by one. After they die I just avoid standing in the large red circles, and keep my shield up the entire time, hard marking and aggravating striking until he drops.

durugudesu · September 2017

marcm713#3446 said:
As a tank - and not an ultimate unkillable tank- what is the best way to handle the final boss fight? I found going straight for the boss without dealing with the drakes first means trouble for the group. Too much red leads to a dead party. Pulling the drakes to the side first seams to keep more people alive for longer. But seeing above...is going for the boss directly the best course of action and me pulling the drakes off the team actually doing more harm?

Just a curious OP.
Thank you,
Mc

yes I would suggest to go straight to boss, try to get drakes in enforced threat, hold your shield and try to be on the other side of the team, so they dont get accidentally hit. slot in steel defense if you have a hard time surviving for that invulnerabilty for a few seconds after a daily.

mentinmindmaker · September 2017

There generally is a lack of understanding how the boss fight works, leading to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

My basic guide for eSoT endboss:
1: Kill drakes asap. They create too much mischief if left alive.
2: When drakes are down, everyone but tank stack CLOSE on the back of the boss.

* The boss will always cast the red circles on a player, but never so it hits himself. If everyone is close to boss, no red circles. The worst thing you can do is mid-range it so you pull red circles onto those fighting at boss.

* If you are outside melee range, boss will use a one-shot nuke on you. It can be dodged, but you need to pay attention. Just avoid the problem by staying close on bosses back.

There is some small AE damage near boss, but not more than a semi-skilled healer and/or some lifesteal can deal with.

Tank needs to stay alive and keep aggro. Staying alive tanking this boss basically is about using shield/immunities to meet his big attacks. You can see when they happen from his moves, but tank needs to figure this out and learn the encounter. You don't really need a big IL to tank this as long as you know the encounter.

mamalion1234 · September 2017

while you talk about esot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od-p7A6GOvQ

here is video about garakas does he need glasses to see me?

armadeonx · September 2017

marcm713#3446 said:
As a tank - and not an ultimate unkillable tank- what is the best way to handle the final boss fight? I found going straight for the boss without dealing with the drakes first means trouble for the group. Too much red leads to a dead party. Pulling the drakes to the side first seams to keep more people alive for longer. But seeing above...is going for the boss directly the best course of action and me pulling the drakes off the team actually doing more harm?

Just a curious OP.
Thank you,
Mc

As an OP the best position I find is between the boss and the rear wall. Using TW, Smite & CoP along with Oath Strike you should keep the aggro on you and the boss facing away from everyone else. CoP should keep you at 80% DR, Smite lowers enemy DPS and TW should keep your temp health high enough to not worry about damage received.

If you are still taking too much damage just keep SoF up permanently - if you're ok without it use Divine Judgement for extra damage. If you can't perma-SoF then you need to boost your AP gain with the right mount and AP gain enhancements on your neck, waist & rings.

mebengalsfan · September 2017

This is such an easy area....I soloed the whole thing on my GF....what a joke this one is...And I was only 2.7K IL or around 10K now....

marcm713 · October 2017

marcm713#3446 said:
As a tank - and not an ultimate unkillable tank- what is the best way to handle the final boss fight? I found going straight for the boss without dealing with the drakes first means trouble for the group. Too much red leads to a dead party. Pulling the drakes to the side first seams to keep more people alive for longer. But seeing above...is going for the boss directly the best course of action and me pulling the drakes off the team actually doing more harm?

Just a curious OP.
Thank you,
Mc

To follow up. I tried the "go straight for the boss" plan. It seems to work better. I just tank him while the other do their work. Fewer team wipes. Of course I don't know if this was primarily related to the specific teams I was running, but seemed to be a better tactic.

Thanks,
Mc

mebengalsfan · October 2017

marcm713#3446 said:

marcm713#3446 said:
As a tank - and not an ultimate unkillable tank- what is the best way to handle the final boss fight? I found going straight for the boss without dealing with the drakes first means trouble for the group. Too much red leads to a dead party. Pulling the drakes to the side first seams to keep more people alive for longer. But seeing above...is going for the boss directly the best course of action and me pulling the drakes off the team actually doing more harm?

Just a curious OP.
Thank you,
Mc
To follow up. I tried the "go straight for the boss" plan. It seems to work better. I just tank him while the other do their work. Fewer team wipes. Of course I don't know if this was primarily related to the specific teams I was running, but seemed to be a better tactic.

Thanks,
Mc

In most MMO games, grabbing threat and hold it is important but so is positioning. To often I see tanks just leave things as is and allows the boss more freedom to attack the group. Turning the boss or having them move towards a corner where others can easily see the boss turning around for an attack greatly improves the groups ability to survive.

This instance, as the tank, run towards the boss. If you are a GF, mark the drakes as you run past them. Than turn the boss around. The drakes will follow you and quickly die. The boss does have a strong attack, but if he is focused on the tank and the DPS are facing the back, when the boss turns around it is a scripted attack that players can avoid. To often, players just sit through the attack and wipe and put blame on the healer or tank instead of realizing it was their mistake that killed them.

This game is not hard if you know basic mechanics for the role you are playing. Tanking is all about holding threat, healing yourself as needed, and positioning of adds.

Healing is all about ensuring you are not just a buffer but have the right encounters and at wills to ensure you are producing enough heals for the group.

DPS is simple, kill as fast and as quick as possible and the best way to do that is with bonding stones.

preechr · October 2017

For a party that is generally on level with the content, DPSers should be focusing on the adds, not the tank, unless the tank can manage to pull them

Adds will usually try to weaken the party by focusing on the squishies, applying combat advantage to the tank, or aoe DPSing or CCing the group from a distance, so as a general rule, the primary damage dealers should only work the boss when the adds are gone, and should refocus their attacks if new adds appear

If the party is powerful enough to ignore the adds and wait to clean them up after the boss is down, well, its obvious when that is the case

As for "healers," if your tank is devOP nothing about this changes, where Templocks should act as DPS and DC buffers would focus on maintaining buffs, healing, then additional DPS, in that order but all at once if possible

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

DPS is simple, kill as fast and as quick as possible and the best way to do that is with bonding stones.

Aim for the eyes and use your lowest level bonding stones first
When you run out, throw your unused weapon enchant shards at them
(j/k)

mebengalsfan · October 2017

preechr#2215 said:
For a party that is generally on level with the content, DPSers should be focusing on the adds, not the tank, unless the tank can manage to pull them

Adds will usually try to weaken the party by focusing on the squishies, applying combat advantage to the tank, or aoe DPSing or CCing the group from a distance, so as a general rule, the primary damage dealers should only work the boss when the adds are gone, and should refocus their attacks if new adds appear

If the party is powerful enough to ignore the adds and wait to clean them up after the boss is down, well, its obvious when that is the case

As for "healers," if your tank is devOP nothing about this changes, where Templocks should act as DPS and DC buffers would focus on maintaining buffs, healing, then additional DPS, in that order but all at once if possible

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

DPS is simple, kill as fast and as quick as possible and the best way to do that is with bonding stones.
Aim for the eyes and use your lowest level bonding stones first
When you run out, throw your unused weapon enchant shards at them
(j/k)

You think GWF rather me forgo any healing. I mean I have seen plenty GWF go down easily because they run ahead, think they are a tank, thought they are not, and get wiped very easily and end up dead because I went all out on buffing vs healing. Seen it so many times. It is not just GWF now, it is now combat rangers, TR, even CW because CW need to get up close and personal to hit the targets with Icy Terrain.

Also, the setup I list above applies for most MMOs game, not just NW. Some other games actually use Controllers to stun and immobilize the adds resulting in the tank needing less heals and the healer not having to spam heal. It would be nice if the devs did bring back controlling for CW and make it so that if the CW cannot have an impact on an add or boss for controlling than the CW should be able to provide a group damage buff or debuff the enemy damage.

preechr · October 2017

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

preechr#2215 said:
For a party that is generally on level with the content, DPSers should be focusing on the adds, not the tank, unless the tank can manage to pull them

Adds will usually try to weaken the party by focusing on the squishies, applying combat advantage to the tank, or aoe DPSing or CCing the group from a distance, so as a general rule, the primary damage dealers should only work the boss when the adds are gone, and should refocus their attacks if new adds appear

If the party is powerful enough to ignore the adds and wait to clean them up after the boss is down, well, its obvious when that is the case

As for "healers," if your tank is devOP nothing about this changes, where Templocks should act as DPS and DC buffers would focus on maintaining buffs, healing, then additional DPS, in that order but all at once if possible

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

DPS is simple, kill as fast and as quick as possible and the best way to do that is with bonding stones.
Aim for the eyes and use your lowest level bonding stones first
When you run out, throw your unused weapon enchant shards at them
(j/k)

You think GWF rather me forgo any healing. I mean I have seen plenty GWF go down easily because they run ahead, think they are a tank, thought they are not, and get wiped very easily and end up dead because I went all out on buffing vs healing. Seen it so many times. It is not just GWF now, it is now combat rangers, TR, even CW because CW need to get up close and personal to hit the targets with Icy Terrain.

Also, the setup I list above applies for most MMOs game, not just NW. Some other games actually use Controllers to stun and immobilize the adds resulting in the tank needing less heals and the healer not having to spam heal. It would be nice if the devs did bring back controlling for CW and make it so that if the CW cannot have an impact on an add or boss for controlling than the CW should be able to provide a group damage buff or debuff the enemy damage.

Yes, Damage Dealers running into the fight before the tank can gain aggro is just too common, though not as bad with a GF that can throw marks... usually I'll try to "teach" them better before the boss by just letting them suffer the consequences of their own actions, but if they refuse to behave at boss time, I'll throw an astral seal and drop AA on the group just inside the door, giving us some time to get started properly

For parties like this, I'll generally throw DG in divinity, which keeps everyone alive to fight, followed by BtS, so I am buffing while healing

Fortunately the only pugs I ever do personally are still within my Alliance, and we have a lot of pretty good tanks

Also I agree that its sad how underpowered CC is generally in NW...

asterotg · October 2017

mentinmindmaker said:
There generally is a lack of understanding how the boss fight works, leading to a lot of unnecessary deaths.

My basic guide for eSoT endboss:
1: Kill drakes asap. They create too much mischief if left alive.
2: When drakes are down, everyone but tank stack CLOSE on the back of the boss.

* The boss will always cast the red circles on a player, but never so it hits himself. If everyone is close to boss, no red circles. The worst thing you can do is mid-range it so you pull red circles onto those fighting at boss.

* If you are outside melee range, boss will use a one-shot nuke on you. It can be dodged, but you need to pay attention. Just avoid the problem by staying close on bosses back.

There is some small AE damage near boss, but not more than a semi-skilled healer and/or some lifesteal can deal with.

Tank needs to stay alive and keep aggro. Staying alive tanking this boss basically is about using shield/immunities to meet his big attacks. You can see when they happen from his moves, but tank needs to figure this out and learn the encounter. You don't really need a big IL to tank this as long as you know the encounter.

This, so much this. I can solo him easily with my GF, I even soloed him with various DDs (this requires some timing). If my GF dies in a PuG run, it is not the boss attack on me that kills me, but the shitload of red circles burning on the ground courtesy of an ADAS enhanced player, who cant just stand still behind the boss.

darrellp1962 · October 2017

As a player still new to the game, I find the biggest difficulty is lack of communication. And I mean total lack. I inform the party at the beginning of the run. "Hey, I'm new here, is there anything I need to know about this run?".....total silence. Everyone has made this run or that run a thousand times and knows it like the back of their hand and expects that everyone else does too.
I blame it on microwave ovens. Noone knows how to slow down and enjoy the journey and the company.

preechr · October 2017

Unfortunately, that will be your experience with pugs 99% of the time
People that disdain interacting with others refuse to join guilds and make up the majority of people in pug groups
Not really sure why they would choose to play an mmo, but to each his own I suppose
For a run like eSoT, many higher level or very experienced players may just consider it so easy as to not be worth explaining as it's over so quickly
If the fun of the game for you is enjoying the journey and the company, join a guild that has people that share that interest
Pugging probably won't ever give you that

ravenskya · October 2017

On PS4 if you are in a party chat already - you can't tell that the people are in game chat unless you notice that the little mic thing is blinking.

After about the 4th or 5th time of popping into game chat to see if they are asking for help and realizing they are just listening to terrible music, you kind of stop bothering hopping over any more. Unless they type in group "I've never done this before" I rarely hop over to in game.

2 Simple mistakes that many players make in eSoT.

Comments