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Suggestion about low-lvl dungeons

dolreydolrey Member Posts: 741 Arc User
edited May 2017 in Player Feedback (PC)
Hello :) Mostly I have been writing threads about end-game content (class balance, PvP or PvE on 70 lvl etc). But here I would like to pay some attention to low-lvl content (concretely to dungeons).

The problem

So, the problem is that if you have low-lvl character (if you desided to crete second character for example) or if you are beginner then in low-lvl dungeons you always see how experienced player who have 70 lvl rushes thru the dungeon and kills all monters in solo. It isn't that what you expect from dungeon and it isn't good for atmospfere of D&D.

Players who are affected by this problem

1) I think that every beginner who started playing Neverwinter Online right now is affected by this problem. And because of this he gain not so good first view on the game.
2) Players who decided to create new character to play this game from the beginning again are also affected by this problem. It makes story not so intresting.

Suggestions

1) Could you please rework system that changes character's stats depending on the location's lvl.
2) Another way that I see is to forbid for high-lvl characters to enter into low-lvl dungeons.

What it will give to the game?

I think these changes will help to improve atmosphere of D&D in Neverwinter Online. Thank to this all beginners will better enjoy the story and game process.

So, thank you for your attention and sorry for my english :) I hope that this thread will help to the game :)
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Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    Suggestion #1 is really the only solution. The level scaling currently is horrendous. It adjusts some level related stats like Hit Points, but gear isn't scaled down, allowing a char to take advantage of more favorable calculations. I think at level 70, Crit chance is +1% per 200 (or 400?) Either way, the rate is more favorable below level 70, making crit chance rise as level decreases. Fixing this would balance things out considerably, although max level chars would still have an advantage with easier to get (even for alts) epic gear and even legendary while lower levels at most with blue or a small number of purples (leveling gear).

    An alternate but similiar idea would be to bring back the old skull icon mobs that jad no fixed level but scaled to the player attacking them. This was the original way mixed level content was handled and far better. It did have an issue thay since player levels didn't change, great differences in level made healing either too strong or too weak. High level healer grants immortality to low level char. Low level healer does no healing to higher level.

    As for removing high levels from the content, it would probably lead to longer Q times, although mostly for 2 dungeons. I suspect that having the high levels there is also a compensation for the lack of Leadership AD.

    Fixing the scaling would be the best answer IMO. The AD would still be available for alts but it wouldn't just be a race. Even a good scaling system wouldn't make those dungeons hard because of grar disparities.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    Well I don't run low level dungeons on my level 70 character's there certainly are some who do to earn some quick AD and I'd agree it can certainly take away from the challenge or adventure new players get to enjoy.

    It would be nice to see some better tier levels created and while those with ensorcelled weapons scale to the level of the dungeon while still powerful their buffs and damage is reduced down to epic for the level they are fighting but artifact weapons do NOT do the same. They remain at their level 70 value and something needs to FIX this to correct the behavior to restore a little more balance to game play.

    While I understand the reason for suggesting higher level players be excluded from the content... the problem there is many low level dungeons had been unavailable for more than a year or so while they were updated. So players who are still only returning after a break to the game should be given the opportunity to run them for completion.

    It's the same reason why many have asked for more Call to Arms events for more lower level skirmishes because sometimes when your leveling your player you unable to get into a group for some of them despite waiting in queue for a long time. It would be nice to see a new CTA (Call to Arms) Events introduced to allow players to earn accolades they missed along with some possibly new rewards.
  • pteriaspterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    It's the same reason why many have asked for more Call to Arms events for more lower level skirmishes because sometimes when your leveling your player you unable to get into a group for some of them despite waiting in queue for a long time. It would be nice to see a new CTA (Call to Arms) Events introduced to allow players to earn accolades they missed along with some possibly new rewards.

    Haha, yeah, my main is still missing the "Defend the Village" skirmish in my journal. It's the only one I'm missing. I actually completed it, but leveled out of range WHILE DOING IT, so it didn't count. Been waiting 3 1/2 years for a CTA version of it...
  • linaduinlinaduin Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    Allow solo entry into low level dungeons. Those speed running for AD won't need to interfere with low-level fun. Low-levels that want help from high-levels can still ask for it - preferrably from guildies. I've always assumed that solo dungeon entry was removed (Mod 5 I think) to encourage speed runs - sells more keys presumably. My tin-foil hat itches.
  • trieper47#8124 trieper47 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    Let higher levels (or anyone) solo these 3 man places if they wish and choose to go on an AD run or whatever. That way everybody runs the content as they wish to run the content. Far be it from Dolrey the great to dictate how content should and shouldn't be run.
  • zanaspus1zanaspus1 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    Here's a "new player's" not yet to 70 viewpoint. If someone wants to go on a rampage and sit at the boss spawn for the same amount of time it would have taken to share the experience, more power to them. Some people just need to flex their e-peen ya know. HOWEVER, you leave mobs in your wake for me to kill or to kill me, welcome to my ignore list.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    dolrey said:

    Hello :) Mostly I have been writing threads about end-game content (class balance, PvP or PvE on 70 lvl etc). But here I would like to pay some attention to low-lvl content (concretely to dungeons).

    The problem

    So, the problem is that if you have low-lvl character (if you desided to crete second character for example) or if you are beginner then in low-lvl dungeons you always see how experienced player who have 70 lvl rushes thru the dungeon and kills all monters in solo. It isn't that what you expect from dungeon and it isn't good for atmospfere of D&D.

    Players who are affected by this problem

    1) I think that every beginner who started playing Neverwinter Online right now is affected by this problem. And because of this he gain not so good first view on the game.
    2) Players who decided to create new character to play this game from the beginning again are also affected by this problem. It makes story not so intresting.

    Suggestions

    1) Could you please rework system that changes character's stats depending on the location's lvl.
    2) Another way that I see is to forbid for high-lvl characters to enter into low-lvl dungeons.

    What it will give to the game?

    I think these changes will help to improve atmosphere of D&D in Neverwinter Online. Thank to this all beginners will better enjoy the story and game process.

    So, thank you for your attention and sorry for my english :) I hope that this thread will help to the game :)
    v
    The problem is, if you actually run the content properly, characters level up too fast. I have never completed the last 3 - 4 leveling areas (whispering caverns, mt. hotenow, etc.) because I hit lvl 60 somewhere between pirates skyhold & rothe valley. That is a lot of content that players will never see if they only have access to "level appropriate" areas. I would be willing to accept this solution, however, if all content was available to any private groups. I still have one alt that somehow managed to miss the Blacklake skirmish. That chaps my HaMsTeR, every time I open my quest log. :(
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,155 Arc User
    zanaspus1 said:

    Here's a "new player's" not yet to 70 viewpoint. If someone wants to go on a rampage and sit at the boss spawn for the same amount of time it would have taken to share the experience, more power to them. Some people just need to flex their e-peen ya know. HOWEVER, you leave mobs in your wake for me to kill or to kill me, welcome to my ignore list.

    If you're pugging and they're pugging, there is always a chance you will be tossed into a dungeon/skirmish with them.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    ok, since this comes up often enough let me make some observations.

    First it is a 3 man dungeon where you could be paired with anything. New players are not learning anything from them as to how to do 5 man dungeons. 5 man dungeons, some what, require a healer and tank supported by 3 dps. 3 man dungeons could be 3 healers thrown together. The synergy of team play is completely different between the 2.

    Second, and to me most important, 5 man dungeon PUGs tend to be quick charge to the end killing as you race. So, maybe they aren't so different and the new player IS learning the realities of PUG groups in Neverwinter.
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  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    karvare said:

    ok, since this comes up often enough let me make some observations.

    First it is a 3 man dungeon where you could be paired with anything. New players are not learning anything from them as to how to do 5 man dungeons. 5 man dungeons, some what, require a healer and tank supported by 3 dps. 3 man dungeons could be 3 healers thrown together. The synergy of team play is completely different between the 2.

    Second, and to me most important, 5 man dungeon PUGs tend to be quick charge to the end killing as you race. So, maybe they aren't so different and the new player IS learning the realities of PUG groups in Neverwinter.

    Just about everything in game is a "quick charge to the end killing as you race" I suspect that this is a result of the junk drops that most dungeon, skirmishes, epic trials (dont know why they just dont call this a raid), etc. have. The RNG makes it so that it will take 20+ runs to get anything, so the incentive is to just burn through em as quick as possible, reset and repeat.
    The problem is, high level toons are too fast, or too lazy to kill everything as they go... so the low levels are left to solo their way thru the content that is meant for them to face as part of a group :/
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  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Jeebus..

    its a really small issue in the game.. like one of the smallest.

    Why is this continually bashed about all the time.

    Consider this.. Remove all of those lovely lvl 70s you want to get rid of..
    Queue.. never pops.
    That will leave a great impression as well.. in fact I think a worse one.

    + when they get to lvl 70 for the first time, THOSE some players.. whome you think are just perplexed about this , will need that to progress.

    The ideal is to move beyond these things quickly anyways, you are continually rehashing a problem, that is barely a problem, except in your own mind.


    If you really want to help real new players.. fight for faster progression times.. most normal average players.. take a year to get enough assets to catch up.. sort of .


  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    Jeebus..

    its a really small issue in the game.. like one of the smallest.

    Why is this continually bashed about all the time.

    Consider this.. Remove all of those lovely lvl 70s you want to get rid of..
    Queue.. never pops.
    That will leave a great impression as well.. in fact I think a worse one.

    + when they get to lvl 70 for the first time, THOSE some players.. whome you think are just perplexed about this , will need that to progress.

    The ideal is to move beyond these things quickly anyways, you are continually rehashing a problem, that is barely a problem, except in your own mind.


    If you really want to help real new players.. fight for faster progression times.. most normal average players.. take a year to get enough assets to catch up.. sort of .


    And in that year, many characters never have the chance to even see... let alone explore... much of the content because they are chasing a group member that ran past the content without bothering to kill it. So you are stuck with the options of playing keep up, or getting constantly killed by kritterz your GROUP is supposed to help with. Buddha on a breadstick... I used to sympathize with the players that need the AD, but now, I have to say, I think they really need to institute a HARD lvl cap on dungeons, the same way they did with skirmishes.
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