Please make the cooldown on Overcharge: Attack and Defense to work separated

kallephi · December 2016

This set bonus as it is now is just a joke, a bad joke.
I like to sprint a lot to move during fights, to avoid damage from rocks and dashes from giants in FBI and SVA, even to avoid stuff in CN, Epic Demogorgon, but I can't because if I do in the wrong time, I lose a 10% damage buff to gain a movement speed buff and that's completely ridiculous for a dps toon. What is happening is that I'm losing dps because I'm not running towards mobs, and if I have to dodge something, I have to walk like a GF who has no sprint/dodge/teleport mechanism and that makes me lose dps instead of gaining dps.

So, you can tell me "Just ignore the bonus and sprint", yes, then I'm losing the set bonus for the whole fight, that's a 10% damage loss for 10 seconds every 30 seconds. I believe the weapon set bonus was made to INCREASE my dps, not to control and dictate when I have to shadow slip or not, because that's what I'm doing, now I'm afraid of shadow slipping because if I do I get a movement speed bonus on my dps toon.

I want to be able to dodge as long as I can and still get a set bonus because it's a hard work to make the weapons and even more a really hard work to put them on legendary rank.
I'm a striker and I believe the weapon set bonus should not restrict my movement during combat.

And please, don't tell me it's easy to coordinate because it's not. Sometimes you just need to dodge a hit from a boss if he turns against you, you need to dodge the manticores in SVA, to dodge Hati in FBI, you need to dodge the breath from the giants in SVA. (Try to fight Hati without shadow slipping at all). One more thing...Hati moves a lot, you need to keep running against him, so, what I'm being forced to do now? WALKING towards him, what makes me lose dps because by the time I reach him he flies, or completely ignore the set bonus....and, if I'm ignoring my set bonus, why am I using this? Why was it made if not to be used?
One more thing, sometimes I need to use arms of hadar in the wind to get the bonus, and that makes me lose 1 encounter, thus wasting my encounter to get the bonus. This is not right.
Trust me, you will end up getting Overcharge: Defense by the time you dodge and it will happen more than once because you don't control the cooldown.

Please make the weapon set cooldown for Overcharge: Defense and Overcharge: Attack work separated.

agilesto · December 2016

I completly agree with that statement.
There are currently a lot of actions that makes your character stop, basically can't move for like half a second to an entiere second. Pop the wheel of elements ? You're blocked. Use any Encounter power ? You're blocked. For melee classes that need to move (i speak as a GWF), the only way to get over this is to sprint a bit, press Maj key just a little to be able to move and continue what i'm doing.
I usually pop the wheel and immediatly start sprinting a bit to take the fire and go to melee. Same when i attack, i sprint just a bit to be able to continue my rotation, or the get closer to the mobs (manticore i'm looking at you).

But, now with the new set, if i want to get the "Overcharge : Attack", i cannot pop the wheel before a battle, or i'll lose some precious time to get to melee. If ever i make the mistake to press Maj for a millisecond to overpass the blocked character feature, i'm stuck for 10 sec with an "Overcharge : Defense" that i don't need, and a reload of the overcharge.
As a GWf i try to stack a lot of movement, mostly because of the crappy 2 sec without stamina regeneration after you stop the sprint (no feature like this on my CW, i can teleport an infinite number of time...). But all this movement is useless on some times, like when i pop the wheel of elements, and that's why i use the sprint. Now i cannot even do that, or i'll not have the most important effect of the weapon set...

Unknown · December 2016

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Unknown · December 2016

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Unknown · December 2016

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gabrieldourden · December 2016

I'm with @revjimjones here. The new weapons are already better than any other set even without the bonus. And movement is not bad at all especially with all the 1-shotting stuff around. Just relax and enjoy the game.

kallephi · December 2016

revjimjones said:
So the extra stats, the extra base damage of the weapons isn't enough you have to have a Completely reliable and dependable +10% Extra Damage, it is People like you that exacerbate the Power Creep. The Power Creep is Real and the Strong Get Stronger by tying it to an important play style decision they are attempting to slow down the creep.
Oh and try to post some ACT log or something substantiated to back up your assertions next time I hate arguing in a vacuum.

Dude, I don't care if you hate, I don't know you and I'm not here to prove you anything. Only a HAMSTER believes that what I'm saying is not true. I'm not arguing in a vaccuum, do you have a SW? Do you play it hours a day? Do you do the newest content on your SW? IF so, ok, if not, what are you talking about?

But, I'm gonna feed the troll, just this time, just once.

The new content like FBI and Master SVA demands a very good group. Really high dps toons, not toons with 3 bondings and 0 skills claiming they are hdps. And in the future more harder content will be launched.There are players (like me) who like every single piece of dps and improvement to get better and better, we like improvement. If you are the sort of guy who doesn't care about numbers at all, it's YOUR opinion, and this topic is MY opinion. You can't be aggressive or make fun of people just because they have different opinions. You have the right to disagree, but watch your attitude, posting fun pics, making jokes, saying you hate this and that, demanding logs. Respect the forums users, man, because not everyone is supposed to agree with you.
An example of disagreement with respect is the post below yours, the post from gabrieldourden. He gave his opinion, said he doesn't agree, but didn't offend or made jokes.

kallephi · December 2016

gabrieldourden said:
I'm with @revjimjones here. The new weapons are already better than any other set even without the bonus. And movement is not bad at all especially with all the 1-shotting stuff around. Just relax and enjoy the game.

Yes, they are better than any other weapon regarding base damage and stats, but movement? FBI set bonus gives you 4,000 movement under everfrost. And to dodge things the dps classes got: shadow slip, dodge, sprint, etc.

The reason I created this topic it's because it's player feedback. It's meant to be used as a place for us to say "thanks, this is nice" or "hey, this is not nice".
I enjoy the game, I love neverwinter but I don't like this set bonus, that's why I created the topic. In my opinion the cooldowns should work in separated times.

Unknown · December 2016

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kallephi · December 2016

@revjimjones

If you think I'm a player with 0 skills, let's do a Master SVA or FBI run together, I promise you will regret your comment.
And if you think a toon with 500,000 encdps, chardps and dps has 0 skills, I'm done.
Or you can check my FBI video, along with the Master SVA video I'm going to post in 1 hour.

tom · December 2016

revjimjones said:
So the extra stats, the extra base damage of the weapons isn't enough you have to have a Completely reliable and dependable +10% Extra Damage, it is People like you that exacerbate the Power Creep. The Power Creep is Real and the Strong Get Stronger by tying it to an important play style decision they are attempting to slow down the creep.
Oh and try to post some ACT log or something substantiated to back up your assertions next time I hate arguing in a vacuum.

only cause u dont give a HAMSTER about your character it doenst mean that we all dont care.

Unknown · December 2016

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kallephi · December 2016

revjimjones said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@revjimjones

If you think I'm a player with 0 skills, let's do a Master SVA or FBI run together, I promise you will regret your comment.
And if you think a toon with 500,000 encdps, chardps and dps has 0 skills, I'm done.
Or you can check my FBI video, along with the Master SVA video I'm going to post in 1 hour.
So your own quoted Text was about you? I fail to see your point there, I have no regrets about anything I say so I have no worries on that point, I am happy that you are so mighty and powerful in game it is good to have people like you around for others to aspire too. Yet you have still failed to explain why what amounts to a 80% uptime on the Offensive bonus is So bad for you since you do 500k Encounter DPS the missing 2% Extra Damage seems extraneous 100% Uptime ONLY HELPS THE LESS skilled and bolsters your numbers about 2-3% at best.
So you have yet to explain how the Set bonus is damaging your numbers. Although I see you have an extremely high opinion of yourself that is not an explanation.

This is the last time I'm going to answer you because I don't owe you any explanation since you are no dev, even to devs, they are supposed to test things, not me.
My topic is only about a request to change how set bonus works. If you don't agree, that's up to you, but don't make everyone waste their times answering you because you have a different opinion. My toon got all offense slots maxed, all insignias maxed, my companion has all offense slots maxed...That means I'm awesome? No, that means I can't get any dps improvement from nowhere besides a legendary mount (im working on it). I'm doing a new content so I improve, and the problem is not not having 100% uptime, is loosing the Attack bonus because I had to dodge.
Some people pay 1-2M ad for 1-2% dps increase, and I'm like them, it's the way I like to play just like I like a soccer team and you like another. If you are not, that's your decision, but don't flame because I have a different opinion.

I'm not full of myself, I just know I'm a good player and that's all, I don't think I'm the best SW around, just a decent one. But I can't stand with a flammer telling me that I probably have 0 skills because I don't like how the set bonus works.
You did the same to @tom#6998 topic and probably did the same to countless topics. i'm not feeding you, dude.

Anyway, again, I don't need to prove you or anyone else anything. I made a request, it's up to the devs if they change it or not.
Stop acting like a boss demanding arguments and explanations, this is a request topic, not a explain-to-the-kid-with-all-arguments-needed-so-you-convince-his-ego-that-he-can-be-wrong. I'm done with you. You can say anything in any topic, I'm just not even going to bother reading your posts, have a nice weekend and fun

mightyeriksson · December 2016

What was the reasoning behind changing how they worked at first?

I thought it made a lot more sense the first way btw...

kuero21 · December 2016

In my opinion they should reverse the buffs, I don't get the logic of getting a dmg buff out of a defensive action and a defensive buff out of an offensive action... but I doubt they will ever change it, other than nerfing it.
But let me quote some wise words instead.

kallephi#0836 said:
Just ignore the bonus and sprint

kallephi · December 2016

kuero21 said:
In my opinion they should reverse the buffs, I don't get the logic of getting a dmg buff out of a defensive action and a defensive buff out of an offensive action... but I doubt they will ever change it, other than nerfing it.
But let me quote some wise words instead.

kallephi#0836 said:
Just ignore the bonus and sprint

What you mean? You don't get a damage buff from a defensive action. You get Overcharge: Attack when you use an encounter. And you get the movement bonus when you use shift.

kuero21 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

kuero21 said:
In my opinion they should reverse the buffs, I don't get the logic of getting a dmg buff out of a defensive action and a defensive buff out of an offensive action... but I doubt they will ever change it, other than nerfing it.
But let me quote some wise words instead.

kallephi#0836 said:
Just ignore the bonus and sprint

What you mean? You don't get a damage buff from a defensive action. You get Overcharge: Attack when you use an encounter. And you get the movement bonus when you use shift.

hmm, I just checked it again. they must have changed it. The first tooltip I saw of the new weapon set bonus stated you get dmg buff once you dodge/sprint or block and decreases incoming dmg if you use your daily skill.

mamalion1234 · December 2016

THE best they should do is to seperate the bonus and pay 10k when you want to switch bonuses.

Unknown · December 2016

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santralafax · December 2016

I think the ideal of a fluctuating bonus is kinda Hamster. Why do I want a defensive boost when I sprint??? I usually sprint at things....

foxxy · December 2016

U need to chill down and accept others' feebacks on your feedback.
My feedback on this is the same as remjijones'. The new weapon bonus should stay as it is. it requires timing whenver u have to use an encounter to trigger the dmg bonus or a shift to trigger the defense bonus. the weapon already gives power and a ridculous base weapon. <- it is because these kind of content and item they introduce that makes a class or a player go overpowered.

kallephi · December 2016

foxxycleopatra said:
U need to chill down and accept others' feebacks on your feedback.
My feedback on this is the same as remjijones'. The new weapon bonus should stay as it is. it requires timing whenver u have to use an encounter to trigger the dmg bonus or a shift to trigger the defense bonus. the weapon already gives power and a ridculous base weapon. <- it is because these kind of content and item they introduce that makes a class or a player go overpowered.</p>

I'm ok, man. Not nervous...I accept criticism and disagreement, you gave your opinion and I'm totally cool with that, I just don't like to waste my time with someone who answers with a lot of sarcasms, pictures, theories of me being a bad player and making fun of my topic.

Like we say in my country, it's not what you say, it's the way you say it. You and gabriel said almost the same thing the other dude did, but you were polite and cool, that's what I'm saying.

Like I said before, I just made a request, it's up to them if they check this or not. I believe when you are not happy with something you should state it, that's just the way I am, I think the weapon set bonus is not nice the way it is at the moment, and that's all.

foxxy · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

foxxycleopatra said:

I believe when you are not happy with something you should state it,

agree. her*

lonewolfmk1 · December 2016

Actualy i think revjimjones has made some good points, which might have been made nicer, but still. What we have got is a very good weapon set, better than anything before. Maybe you can not keep the setboni up 100% of the time (but rather close to it, it seems), so what? As with any powerfull skill or item combo, you either adapt your playstyle to it, or accept that you lose some efficiency. I really dont see the problem.

Its like when the elemental sets where introduced. Do i need the additional self healing from the drowned weapons, or do the fire ones fit better my playstyle? Since i am playing a GF, maybe even earth is an option? Each of the sets require different adaptions to your playstyle to get the most out of it. What you want is what we Germans call "die eierlegende Wollmilchsau" something that does it all, without any setbacks. And thats very boring in my opinion (not to mention OP).

kallephi · December 2016

lonewolfmk1 said:
Actualy i think revjimjones has made some good points, which might have been made nicer, but still. What we have got is a very good weapon set, better than anything before. Maybe you can not keep the setboni up 100% of the time (but rather close to it, it seems), so what? As with any powerfull skill or item combo, you either adapt your playstyle to it, or accept that you lose some efficiency. I really dont see the problem.

Its like when the elemental sets where introduced. Do i need the additional self healing from the drowned weapons, or do the fire ones fit better my playstyle? Since i am playing a GF, maybe even earth is an option? Each of the sets require different adaptions to your playstyle to get the most out of it. What you want is what we Germans call "die eierlegende Wollmilchsau" something that does it all, without any setbacks. And thats very boring in my opinion (not to mention OP).

But for the elemental weapon sets you have 4 choices, like you said, that fit your playstyle. But for the new weapon set there's no option, you either lose the damage bonus if you have to dodge something, or you take it on your face and try your luck.

I agree that the new weapon set got very good damage and stats, I'm not complaining about the weapons themselves, but I just believe the weapon set bonus should have their cooldowns separated for defense and attack action..even for tanks...a tank might find that he used an encounter just by the time the overcharge: ready appeared, and he got 10% more damage instead of 10% less incoming damage.

I always try to adapt, when they fixed Tyrannical Curse, yes, I complained a bit in some topics, but I didn't make rage topics, I just adapted and now I still love my class. What I'm doing is trying to adapt with this set bonus. From the log I posted here, it was 26 Attacks vs. 7 Defenses.
I just got a msva act log where I got 12 Attacks vs. 1 Defense, and I can say it demands a lot of coordination. I can deal with coordination? Yes..but depending on the dungeon, trial or whatever, it's harder to coordinate.

And in my opinion the weapon set should work differently for both tanks and dps classes. I'd like to keep the incoming damage reduction on my tank as well as keep the increased damage on my dps.
I believe a tank should not get more damage and a dps should not get less incoming damage from the endgame weapon set, that makes no sense to me.

PS: What OP, the class or me? :P

vcek · December 2016

for those who cant use wheel and overcharge attack same time, an easy workaround it to activate the wheel mid-air (while jumping forware) so you land in the Fire buff, then use your encounter to activate Overcharge Attack, then Sprint/dodge/block to get out of being blocked by wheel. (this wheel bug is annoying and should be fixed anyway)

jmiller84 · December 2016

Can use the Wheel/Jump method, or could give yourself a more prolonged dmg buff by using the Wheel during the weapon dmg buff cooldown. You won't get a full 28 seconds of a 40% dmg buff, but you'll be able to have a pretty consistent 10%/30% dmg buff and a short-term 40% dmg buff.

vida44 · December 2016

The set bonus works fine (my opinion). You either take a hit to gain the 10% more damage (not sprinting/dodging out of a hit) or you sprint to get out of the AoE/Hit and sacrifice the Attack bonus. As a GWF the defense bonus with all this lag can even come in handy (rubber band into AoE). And besides, if you are getting 80% of Attack buffs I don't see why you want it to be changed. That's excellent.

And not to mention that my rushing in to hit the mobs first has decreased drastically. Slow walk to get the Attack now.

Please make the cooldown on Overcharge: Attack and Defense to work separated

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