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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

Shadow Demon question

tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
in General Discussion (PC)
Is the shadow demon still doing that crazy damage it used to do? Rigth now I have enough companion tokens to make 1 companion legendary and enough trade bars to get me 1, so I could get my first companion to legendary but I have to decide which one. I still use augment (my main is just 3,1k IL) and I'm not planning to do crazy investement on bonding runes that they are likely to be nerfed as devs usually do when they see enough people got an item. Considering I have no intention to rely on bonding runes I have to decide which companion can be more usefull than just making legendary my augment.

I repeat, I'm perfectly aware about the benefit of the bonding with the current system but I'm not taking that route, so there is absolutly not need to recommend them, what I want to know if there is a better companion than the shadow demon or my augment to use the 120 companion tokens that I've been saving since like a year more or less.

Comments

  • qexoticqexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 841 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Tradebars will only get you a Green/Common Level Shadow Demon. Your 120 companion tokens would NOT get one to Legendary as it would have to be done in stages, i.e. Green/Common->Blue/Rare, Blue/Rare->Epic then Epic->Legendary. You would need 60+90+120=270 companion tokens to get a Tradebar purchased Shadow Demon to Legendary. Sorry :(
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Even though the Shadow Demon deals a boatload more damage than all the other companions combined most likely, it still doesn't justify using one for that reason solely. If you're not going the Bonding Runestone route you may as well stick with an augment as that gives you 100% of its stats, where a Shadow Demon will only give you 15% of its stats at legendary without Bondings. No point in trading out I'm afraid.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    qexotic said:

    Tradebars will only get you a Green/Common Level Shadow Demon. Your 120 companion tokens would NOT get one to Legendary as it would have to be done in stages, i.e. Green/Common->Blue/Rare, Blue/Rare->Epic then Epic->Legendary. You would need 60+90+120=270 companion tokens to get a Tradebar purchased Shadow Demon to Legendary. Sorry :(

    I think the OP is suggesting using the 120 tokens to get from epic to legendary, and using AD to go from uncommon to epic - otherwise the player is in for a surprise :p
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    lirithiel said:

    qexotic said:

    Tradebars will only get you a Green/Common Level Shadow Demon. Your 120 companion tokens would NOT get one to Legendary as it would have to be done in stages, i.e. Green/Common->Blue/Rare, Blue/Rare->Epic then Epic->Legendary. You would need 60+90+120=270 companion tokens to get a Tradebar purchased Shadow Demon to Legendary. Sorry :(

    I think the OP is suggesting using the 120 tokens to get from epic to legendary, and using AD to go from uncommon to epic - otherwise the player is in for a surprise :p

    Thats the idea. Then I guess I will just sell any companion i get with with the tradebars to make some AD and make my augment legendary (seems kinda a waste). Another tooltip question about something I read and I'm kinda confused, is possible to make a different companion from the one summoned legendary and get the extra 15% on the summoned? I read old posts with people saying that works that way but doens't seem logic to me that an atribute from one companion apply to other, but if its true it can be handy as I rather improve the active bonus of some other companion as my augment active bonus is kinda lame.
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Yes, it doesn't matter which active companion is legendary - you will still get 15% of the summoned one's stats. I just prefer to have the summoned one legendary as they get a slight boost to their stats too so more HP etc.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,424 Arc User
    tomiotar said:

    lirithiel said:

    qexotic said:

    Tradebars will only get you a Green/Common Level Shadow Demon. Your 120 companion tokens would NOT get one to Legendary as it would have to be done in stages, i.e. Green/Common->Blue/Rare, Blue/Rare->Epic then Epic->Legendary. You would need 60+90+120=270 companion tokens to get a Tradebar purchased Shadow Demon to Legendary. Sorry :(

    I think the OP is suggesting using the 120 tokens to get from epic to legendary, and using AD to go from uncommon to epic - otherwise the player is in for a surprise :p

    Thats the idea. Then I guess I will just sell any companion i get with with the tradebars to make some AD and make my augment legendary (seems kinda a waste). Another tooltip question about something I read and I'm kinda confused, is possible to make a different companion from the one summoned legendary and get the extra 15% on the summoned? I read old posts with people saying that works that way but doens't seem logic to me that an atribute from one companion apply to other, but if its true it can be handy as I rather improve the active bonus of some other companion as my augment active bonus is kinda lame.
    Yes, that is true. The 15% is active bonus. There are other active bonus that works the same way. e.g. you can have an active pet that gives the summoned pet N% more threat, etc.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Also if you want to maximise the usage of the stats on your augment I suggest getting one with a defensive slot so you can slot an Eldritch Runestone, which gives you a percentage of the augment's stats as well - R10 gives 10% IIRC.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • qexoticqexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 841 Arc User
    tomiotar said:

    lirithiel said:

    qexotic said:

    Tradebars will only get you a Green/Common Level Shadow Demon. Your 120 companion tokens would NOT get one to Legendary as it would have to be done in stages, i.e. Green/Common->Blue/Rare, Blue/Rare->Epic then Epic->Legendary. You would need 60+90+120=270 companion tokens to get a Tradebar purchased Shadow Demon to Legendary. Sorry :(

    I think the OP is suggesting using the 120 tokens to get from epic to legendary, and using AD to go from uncommon to epic - otherwise the player is in for a surprise :p

    Thats the idea. Then I guess I will just sell any companion i get with with the tradebars to make some AD and make my augment legendary (seems kinda a waste). Another tooltip question about something I read and I'm kinda confused, is possible to make a different companion from the one summoned legendary and get the extra 15% on the summoned? I read old posts with people saying that works that way but doens't seem logic to me that an atribute from one companion apply to other, but if its true it can be handy as I rather improve the active bonus of some other companion as my augment active bonus is kinda lame.
    Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure you didn't find yourself facing an unexpected extra bill for tokens..or AD.

  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Shadow demon is a great investment.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    I know you said dont recommend bondings, but hey, Im going to recommend bondings. Anything less and you seriously nerf yourself basically to save a little AD for....what exactly?

    One: they already reviewed bonding runestones and made them better - even though they were already BIS. Everyone seems convinced they are headed for a nerf, even though they already reviewed them and again, made - them - better! I don't see them getting nerfed any time soon, but you really never know what they are going to do here at "Dev decisions by Pinwheel".

    Two: an active companion with 3 regular Bonding Runestones (which you should have gotten if you have any decent number of tradebars) would exceed the stat generation of an augment (100% versus 105% with bondings). Even if you dont have them, I don't believe they would be that expensive.

    Three: Shadow Demon is by far the most damaging companion you can get. In tiamat, my pet does around 10 million in damage alone. I don't believe any other pet comes close.

    Four: Outside of damage, it depends what you are looking for in a pet. Damage, Shadow Demon. Something to proc mount bonuses? Fire or Air Archons, or another fast damage dealer. Looking for more offensive bonuses - then look for pets with 3 offensive slots (or defensive for defense folks).
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    oldbaldyone said:



    Two: an active companion with 3 regular Bonding Runestones (which you should have gotten if you have any decent number of tradebars) would exceed the stat generation of an augment (100% versus 105% with bondings). Even if you dont have them, I don't believe they would be that expensive.

    How do you get Bonding Runestones with Tradebars? Do tell...
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,424 Arc User
    The price of 3 regular bonding is over a million at the moment. You cannot get bonding from t-bar store.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • qexoticqexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 841 Arc User
    plasticbat said:

    The price of 3 regular bonding is over a million at the moment. You cannot get bonding from t-bar store.

    Not directly, that's true. However, I got most of my initial Bonding Runestones from opening lockboxes which in turn generated a stash of Tradebars. Bonding Runestones have been a fixture in the various Companion Augmentation/Improvement/Whatever-else-they-call-them Packs for some time. That's why the price for them on the AH has steadily increased to 60-70k a piece. While it might not be the most cost effective method of upgrading a companion, at least if you buy the packs, it is one that works if you have the patience. I saved the packs I got from my daily VIP key until I had a stack of around 10 then opened them. Last time this netted me 1 Bonding Runestone, 1x30 companion token pack, an epic companion and a stack of high value RP in the form of runetones. Back when the Companion Packs were 30-40k each, it was actually possible to make a profit this way. Not so much these days.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,424 Arc User
    qexotic said:

    plasticbat said:

    The price of 3 regular bonding is over a million at the moment. You cannot get bonding from t-bar store.

    Not directly, that's true. However, I got most of my initial Bonding Runestones from opening lockboxes which in turn generated a stash of Tradebars. Bonding Runestones have been a fixture in the various Companion Augmentation/Improvement/Whatever-else-they-call-them Packs for some time. That's why the price for them on the AH has steadily increased to 60-70k a piece. While it might not be the most cost effective method of upgrading a companion, at least if you buy the packs, it is one that works if you have the patience. I saved the packs I got from my daily VIP key until I had a stack of around 10 then opened them. Last time this netted me 1 Bonding Runestone, 1x30 companion token pack, an epic companion and a stack of high value RP in the form of runetones. Back when the Companion Packs were 30-40k each, it was actually possible to make a profit this way. Not so much these days.

    Sorry, I still don't see the direct or indirect relationship between t-bar and bonding runestones.
    I can see lockbox that can generate both t-bar and bonding runestones.
    The key is lockbox and not t-bar.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • qexoticqexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 841 Arc User
    plasticbat said:

    qexotic said:

    plasticbat said:

    The price of 3 regular bonding is over a million at the moment. You cannot get bonding from t-bar store.

    Not directly, that's true. However, I got most of my initial Bonding Runestones from opening lockboxes which in turn generated a stash of Tradebars. Bonding Runestones have been a fixture in the various Companion Augmentation/Improvement/Whatever-else-they-call-them Packs for some time. That's why the price for them on the AH has steadily increased to 60-70k a piece. While it might not be the most cost effective method of upgrading a companion, at least if you buy the packs, it is one that works if you have the patience. I saved the packs I got from my daily VIP key until I had a stack of around 10 then opened them. Last time this netted me 1 Bonding Runestone, 1x30 companion token pack, an epic companion and a stack of high value RP in the form of runetones. Back when the Companion Packs were 30-40k each, it was actually possible to make a profit this way. Not so much these days.

    Sorry, I still don't see the direct or indirect relationship between t-bar and bonding runestones.
    I can see lockbox that can generate both t-bar and bonding runestones.
    The key is lockbox and not t-bar.
    The OP has accumulated 120 Companion Tokens. To get them, without spending Zen on Booster Packs, he would have needed to have opened a lot of lockboxes to get Companion Packs to obtain those tokens. In the process, even with 'standard' NW RNG luck, a few Bonding Runestones should have turned up. Like I said, not a direct link but definitely a probable consequential link :)

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,424 Arc User
    qexotic said:

    plasticbat said:

    qexotic said:

    plasticbat said:

    The price of 3 regular bonding is over a million at the moment. You cannot get bonding from t-bar store.

    Not directly, that's true. However, I got most of my initial Bonding Runestones from opening lockboxes which in turn generated a stash of Tradebars. Bonding Runestones have been a fixture in the various Companion Augmentation/Improvement/Whatever-else-they-call-them Packs for some time. That's why the price for them on the AH has steadily increased to 60-70k a piece. While it might not be the most cost effective method of upgrading a companion, at least if you buy the packs, it is one that works if you have the patience. I saved the packs I got from my daily VIP key until I had a stack of around 10 then opened them. Last time this netted me 1 Bonding Runestone, 1x30 companion token pack, an epic companion and a stack of high value RP in the form of runetones. Back when the Companion Packs were 30-40k each, it was actually possible to make a profit this way. Not so much these days.

    Sorry, I still don't see the direct or indirect relationship between t-bar and bonding runestones.
    I can see lockbox that can generate both t-bar and bonding runestones.
    The key is lockbox and not t-bar.
    The OP has accumulated 120 Companion Tokens. To get them, without spending Zen on Booster Packs, he would have needed to have opened a lot of lockboxes to get Companion Packs to obtain those tokens. In the process, even with 'standard' NW RNG luck, a few Bonding Runestones should have turned up. Like I said, not a direct link but definitely a probable consequential link :)

    I got that but again, it has nothing to do with t-bar but everything to do with lockbox directly and indirectly. You got the companion tokens regardless how much t-bar you get. T-bar is not involved in the whole process besides you get more t-bar.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    A somewhat unrelated question about bondings, what is required for upgrading them? (matching stone as reagent? coal ward or preservation?)

    I bought 3 greaters for my CW without doing researching because I was in a hurry. For my DC, I'd rather save AD and take longer.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Through the process of getting tradebars, you would very likely get bonding stones. There is a direct association between the 2 in that while getting one, you probably would get the other since they come from lockboxes.

    No, you can not buy bonding stones with t-bars. But while gathering t-bars, you have a great chance at getting bonding stones.

    Its not that big of a leap...
    pitshade said:

    A somewhat unrelated question about bondings, what is required for upgrading them? (matching stone as reagent? coal ward or preservation?)



    I bought 3 greaters for my CW without doing researching because I was in a hurry. For my DC, I'd rather save AD and take longer.

    Bonding stones take the same upgrade stuff that all runestones and enchantments do.
  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 83 Arc User
    Tho I haven't used anything like ACT to tease out the impact directly, I've had a lot of fun with a shadow demon with two bonding + a high rank indomitable runestone. Results in some truly epic companion 1 shot kills.
  • aasuraasur Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    I've parsed out Shadow Demon dps in ACT many times, and it always outputs between 3-5% of my overall DPS as a Trapper HR with 3 R12 bondings. Now that may not sound like a lot, but when you compare that to what other companions output (less than 1%), that's a quality active companion.

    Now if you have invested in different archons though, that's probably a better route due to the synergy of having multiple.
  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 83 Arc User
    I'll have to fire up ACT and test it; I have a feeling that it's putting out a lot more than 3-5% for me, probably due to the difference between a prot spec GF and Trapper HR's DPS. :smiley:
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,435 Arc User
    I made my Air Achron Orange. He will probably be in my DPS lineup the longest because of his active bonus. I had a shadow demon but didn't see him as a permanent member of my active companions.
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