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190k execution? No chances GWF versus execution with new weapons in PVP?
theio666
Member Posts: 36 Arc User
At this moment good rogue can deal ~ 160k damage from execution without any external buffs, . With new weapons they loose 4000 power, gain 3220 power from each weapon instead 2720, so + 500 from 2 weap = +1000. And 10% damage buff from overcharge and 1084/947 damage increase from more basic damage. And lets consider rogue wih 40000 power. If you count it, it will be:
((1+2*(40000-4000+1000)/40000)/(1+2*(40000)/40000))*1.1*(1084/947)* 160000
1+2*(40000-4000+1000) - 2 from feat which doble power.
Result is 191388 with old 40k power, 190k with 36k old power. Without any buffs. Whis is just stupid, GWF have no ways to dodge this, yes, we can have 220k+ HP, but then we will cant have vamp, defl, def in defence slots, but anyway rogue under buff from GF,DC will 1stot any GWF(190*1.3=245k damage with only GF).
And little more GWF problems: Courage Breaker just remove any berserker from pvp. You can't shift from it like CW, HR, becouse shift is useles, you can't still damage anybody like SW(and CW and HR too), becouse encounters and most of skills are not ranged. So we have melee class which havent chances to fight in meele 1vs1 versus any DD. CW just put you away, HR put their aoe with piercing damage, rogue kill us in 1 skill or makes us stand in 1 point forever, only vs SW we can do anything, but they use hit'n'run, and we have too less control.
So, think about new weapons for rogue, noone wants to die just from 1 skill.
And think of reworking GWF, for example add some immunite/dodge in shift, like you added to SW, or just remove Sentinel or Instigator and make good PVP path, with control, make tab deleting half of debuff from Courage Breaker, just to have chances walk, not staing in 1 point and taking all damage.
Just 1 more idea - people want more damage in pvp, not defence, it's funnier to kill and be killed than be immortal, stay and look at immortal enemy.
@asterdahl I hope you read this)
((1+2*(40000-4000+1000)/40000)/(1+2*(40000)/40000))*1.1*(1084/947)* 160000
1+2*(40000-4000+1000) - 2 from feat which doble power.
Result is 191388 with old 40k power, 190k with 36k old power. Without any buffs. Whis is just stupid, GWF have no ways to dodge this, yes, we can have 220k+ HP, but then we will cant have vamp, defl, def in defence slots, but anyway rogue under buff from GF,DC will 1stot any GWF(190*1.3=245k damage with only GF).
And little more GWF problems: Courage Breaker just remove any berserker from pvp. You can't shift from it like CW, HR, becouse shift is useles, you can't still damage anybody like SW(and CW and HR too), becouse encounters and most of skills are not ranged. So we have melee class which havent chances to fight in meele 1vs1 versus any DD. CW just put you away, HR put their aoe with piercing damage, rogue kill us in 1 skill or makes us stand in 1 point forever, only vs SW we can do anything, but they use hit'n'run, and we have too less control.
So, think about new weapons for rogue, noone wants to die just from 1 skill.
And think of reworking GWF, for example add some immunite/dodge in shift, like you added to SW, or just remove Sentinel or Instigator and make good PVP path, with control, make tab deleting half of debuff from Courage Breaker, just to have chances walk, not staing in 1 point and taking all damage.
Just 1 more idea - people want more damage in pvp, not defence, it's funnier to kill and be killed than be immortal, stay and look at immortal enemy.
@asterdahl I hope you read this)
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Comments
Crescendo? Are we talking about pvp GWF? Iron Vanguard have Indomitable Strength)
@defiantone99 I like your idea about Deep Gash. It hits almost nothing in pvp even if it was totally unresistible it would only hit like 1.5k each tick which I think its totally reasonable.
nowhere here ive read a proposed solution, listing the problem and not giving a solution is a waste of time.
moderators, please this nerf crusade must stop since the topics arent mentioning a single viable solution:
1) this thread
2) http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1223210/control-wizard-cc-vs-trickster-rogue-cc?sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+3a46ad87ec072940b1fbf8f42605576f3c0afa50+1475608361+hmacsha1
3) http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1223402/how-is-a-gwf-supposed-to-deal-with-piercing-damage?sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+985139485b758972b5296ef0424962e825fcd248+1475608366+hmacsha1
4) http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1223334/master-infiltrator-executioner-build-with-first-strike-shocking-execution-legit-or-nah?sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+bb9144c1fc8235435c6b2de8174954bdf1cacbb7+1475608372+hmacsha1
5) http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1222510/tickster-rouge-1hit-overpower?sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+bfc2c6db82456f53ce1628c946b576f6fad0a1aa+1475608643+hmacsha1
all are recent posts.
Maybe you want to learn how to read? At this moment you have problems. Let me help you a little bit. "for example add some immunite/dodge in shift".
And topic wasn't about "nerf rogue", topic was about "don't add 32k more damage to rogue unless you rework GFW". There is no word about nerf, rogue is pretty balanced now, but with new weapons it will be disaster.
So, please, before writing angry commemt, you need to read post, otherwise you look strange.
You point out 'with buffs from GF/DC, SE can reach 'one-shot' level'. I'd like to point out that nearby party members are capable of providing the recipient of SE with damage reduction buffs. So a self-buffed rogue will most likely not one-shot a self-buffed GWF, a party-buffed rogue can one-shot a non party-buffed GWF, yet will most likely not one-shot a party-buffed GWF and a self-buffed rogue will do pathetically little damage (even with SE) against a party-buffed GWF. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this argument. Anyways thats just my take on the situation.
We also have to keep in mind that less than half of the classes have gone through their 'balancing' which was supposed to occur 'within the year starting this past january' but now appears to be delayed to 'within the year starting this upcoming january' so there is little hope of any significant change in the near future.
I just don't want to see 100% time dead my GWF after update and trying to do some feedback. But there is still no answer from @asterdahl or other dev, this is sad =(
PVP has a lot of moving parts and its going to be a big undertaking when they get to it. I just hope it isn't too late by the time they can.
You are asking for:
1) some immunity/dodge in shift.
2) GWF rework, just to survive one daily power, seriously?? do you imagine the amount of effort that would take to do?
For 1), GWFs are pretty immortal at BIS, so this is not gonna happen, GWFs are too tanky, so give them immunity will make them overperform, dont you remember the regen sentinel build and how bad that was???. What would happen in pve if GWFs get immnunity?
For 2), is not easier to fix the piercing damage on SE, lets say removing it completely than REWORKING an entire class just to survive SE???
The solution is to nerf/fix/delete/etc the piercing damage on SE which is more easier than reworking and overbuffing GWFs dont you think?
"make tab deleting half of debuff from Courage Breaker, just to have chances walk, not staing in 1 point and taking all damage"
this is a nerf request applied to CB, so what do you propose to compensate TRs for "deleting half of debuff", are you gonna give to TRs 50% extra armp? 50% damage increase?? 50% extra recovery???, 50% extra piercing damage to shadow of demise?? make lurker assaut to buff for an extra 50%???? what do you propose?
So we have melee class which havent chances to fight in meele 1vs1 versus any DD. CW just put you away, HR put their aoe with piercing damage, rogue kill us in 1 skill or makes us stand in 1 point forever, only vs SW we can do anything, but they use hit'n'run, and we have too less control.
^^ This statement makes your post totally unlegit, you are telling that GWFs only can deal with SWs and complaining about every other single class. Nobody is gonna take you seriously by posting such kind of things. I bet my crappy 3,3k TR could kill you without SE or CB.
As a side note, i have a GWF too, which still keeps the profound armor as a relic, so dont even try to teach me how a GWF works and before you write things like:
Maybe you want to learn how to read?
you should consider to be more clever about what are you trying to defend by replying properly.
This things are partial lies and demonstrates ppl dont test things properly about all the available GWF powers and how to counter in this case a rogue, since the nerf in SE is necessary and im also supporting it, this things about CB are wrong and comes from ppl that are unexperienced/lazy/whiners/nerf crusanders/or just bad players, here is the thing:
" Courage Breaker, just to have chances walk, not staing in 1 point and taking all damage"
CB usually gets followed by smoke bomb, so how a GWF without no dodge escapes from that?
Easy, GWF has unstoppable to break de daze from SB, and TWO encounter powers to move away from that AoE, using those encounter powers the GWF remains rooted by CB, but with them the GWF can move to another position far from the TR range and avoid the incoming damage.
Those powers are Mighty Leap and Punishing Charge which allow the GWF to "teleport" to another location. Ive seen this used by some clever GWFs, using punishing charge over ML.
Here is the thing with those powers: nobody use them, and they deal little damage.
So the point is, CB can be countered by GWFs but they refuse to use the abilities they have to do it, so they come to forums to ask for buffs/immunities for them and nerfs for others. If GWFs have the mechanics to avoid CB and they dont use, IS NOT a TR PROBLEM but a GWF one.
As a TR, i always have to switch powers for different rotations, because some atwill/encounter powers/passives/dailies, work fine against some classes and players but are useless against other classes and players, so you have to learn when you fight to kill and when you fight to survive, problem here is GWFs(or certain players) want to use a unique build and rotation and expect it works and allow them to kill every class with the same effectiveness, and that is why i called them unexperienced/lazy/whiners/nerf crusanders/bad players above.
- SE needs a nerf?----->YES, no doubt.
- CB needs a nerf?----->NO, is not a one shot, nobody properly geared die instantly with this power and the rotation it involves.
1,2) Why fix SE, which you can dodge/block damage for any class instead GWF, instead of add dodge for GWF? Remove piercing from SE is easier, but it's not cool for rogues.
3) about CB, and "ways to counter" like Mighty Leap. Ok, maybe you don't undertand basic things aboul GWF. We have 3 skills+2 encounters. Just try to use encounters to make damage versus CB, just want to see, how you can do it. So damage come only from skills+daily(haha, it's unreal to land daily in 5-shift rogue, but anyway), so if i put Mighty leap on panel i just loose damage for killing target. It's ways to live, to move, BUT NOT FOR FIGHT! Don't forget that GWF have many damage from encounters, but wil 95% slow we can't use it, it's like removing stealth from rogue. You call this "abilities", i call this "make useless class little more better", abilities it's when i changing skills and after i have chances to kill, not then i have chances to move. You want me to have 2 skills instead of 3, with 1 shift skill instead of have this shift like other classes in shift, good idea.
4) "this is a nerf request applied to CB, so what do you propose to compensate TRs for "deleting half of debuff", are you gonna give to TRs 50% extra armp? 50% damage increase?? 50% extra recovery???, 50% extra piercing damage to shadow of demise?? make lurker assaut to buff for an extra 50%???? what do you propose?" yeah, lets full meele class have no speed even with shift. SW can't move, but they have ranged control and damage, and usually SW use not like 1 vs 1 pvp class. Mages can use shift in CB, rogues can, HR can, and meele GWF DD should stay with no moving. GENIUS! Are you from dev team?
And little more, ~all GWF skills are nontarget and meele, so then you can't move = you have no damage, then you can jump once in 10 second it's too called no damage. If i wanted to be immortal, i'd rather choosed cleric or paladin. But i choosed GWF, and 3.2 rogue with 10k+ recovery can make me into useless once in 10 second jumping thing, no matters how much gear i have, 3.6 like now or 4.2 like BIS players. I also asked BIS players from our server, they said that mod 9-10 GWF are one of the worst class for pvp, it's not only my opinion.
And topic wasn't about "nerf rogue", topic was about "don't add 32k more damage to rogue unless you rework GFW". There is no word about nerf, rogue is pretty balanced now, but with new weapons it will be disaster.
So, please, before writing angry commemt, you need to read post, otherwise you look strange.
1. Permo CB need nerf (regen AP when acting). The principle of action Hallowed Ground DC.
2. Add some immunite/dodge in shift.
3. Increase active time Destroyer from 4s to 8-10s.
In the form that the barbarian is now useless for pvp. GF damage > GWF. Сrying
Effectively maneuvering the Executioner path is difficult but doable sans first strike, yet I don't need FS/SE to kill a BiS GWF 1v1. At best it takes awhile and at worst it's a standstill. #toomuchealing FTW er FTT (for the tie). :P