cromejohnsenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 207Arc User
the point is that guild marks are useless srsly. why should even 10x guild marks give any1 here any incentive to donate a single drop of his farmed ressources towards another guild??????? Thats the same thing with regeneration when terramak once said that its kinda "useless" so we give you a whole lot of it. And in your previous posts the only thing you mentioned is to give more "useless" guild marks. How is that going to help ?
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
Ok so i dont think the idea of having 3 layers in 1 alliance it's any good, i would agree with only 2 layers. 1 HELM and a few SWORDS , the profit of being in the same alliance it should be equal(everyone benefits over the XP, structure reduction etc.), they could share the same boons as the helm guild, the helm guild can also control over what it's goin to happen with the SWORD guild, but the issue that i found i dont like with having 13 guilds in 1 alliance, it creates 3 kingdoms forcing players to submit under 1 helm, where is the democracy? instead of unifiying it looks like more forced, also without a TRADING HOUSE (similar to AUCTION HOUSE) where you transform ur resources in vouchers or anything similar to that, it should allow you to trade with other HELMS , or even better it could be like it is in those strategy games like Age of Empires/ Rome total war where the metal its more expensive than food , or stone it's more expensive than wood like a market that fluctuates or you can trade 20k metal for 40k wood, or 20k metal for 20k stone, or 30k food for 30k wood etc. 2 layers instead of 3 and let the TRADES BE OPENED BETWEEN HELMS. like in the picture bellow.
Nice diagram, and I agree that 3 layers is a bit much. Helm + swords seems cleaner. I like the idea of resource trading between Alliance-helms, although it's probably too much work to incorporate at this point.
Iyon the Dark
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darkstarcrashMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,382Arc User
Having seen too many guild banks get ripped off by people posing as guild leader's alts, I strongly oppose being able to contribute to another guild directly from a guild's coffers -- unless you limit it strictly to production resources (wood/food/stone/metal). Even then, I would be leery of the possibility of abuse.
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A real problem with the SH system is that there are specific currency chokepoints, and I'm not sure alliances will help in that regard.
Every medium-sized pve guild I know is struggling to get Conqueror's Shards to upgrade their Barracks for the power boon, and most guilds are having trouble getting enough Gems and Influence, and/or campaign currencies (besides Dark Gifts).
With all guilds in the alliance chasing the same currency, who will be donating to the other guilds?
You really need to look again at strongholds currency. Tyranny is in a much better spot now, and AD has actually gotten almost too easy to cap. Fey and Frozen have improved with the daily task, and for some reason there are not enough sinks for Dark Gifts so that is always donation-capped. Surplus Equipment got a boost from professions tasks, and the upgraded Quartermaster's Enchants will solve that problem. Gems were hit hard by the loss of botted stacks of rank 4s, but people can use Alchemy and Jewelcrafting professions and insignia drops to help some there.
Switch some upgrades to require Dark Gifts rather than the other campaigns, give us new ways to earn Influence -- or double the cap - and either remove Conqueror's Shards from the Barracks build, or at least halve the amounts. Rank 4 Barracks (+2000 Power) takes a total of 16,300 Conqueror's Shards, and it's another 16k shards to reach rank 6. That is very hard for a pve guild to reach,
Conqueror's Shards would be the one currency the big pvp guilds could donate to others in their alliance, but judging from their gameplay right now, I expect the big pvp guilds to band together and only donate to themselves or to puppet alt guilds. I don't see Absolute reaching out a helping hand to the many friends-and-family guilds...
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
Having seen too many guild banks get ripped off by people posing as guild leader's alts, I strongly oppose being able to contribute to another guild directly from a guild's coffers -- unless you limit it strictly to production resources (wood/food/stone/metal). Even then, I would be leery of the possibility of abuse.
----------------------------------------
A real problem with the SH system is that there are specific currency chokepoints, and I'm not sure alliances will help in that regard.
Every medium-sized pve guild I know is struggling to get Conqueror's Shards to upgrade their Barracks for the power boon, and most guilds are having trouble getting enough Gems and Influence, and/or campaign currencies (besides Dark Gifts).
Conqueror's Shards would be the one currency the big pvp guilds could donate to others in their alliance, but judging from their gameplay right now, I expect the big pvp guilds to band together and only donate to themselves or to puppet alt guilds. I don't see Absolute reaching out a helping hand to the many friends-and-family guilds...
Good point about possible abuse. Perhaps coffer-2-coffer trades should have some probation timer, like destroying buildings in the stronghold does. 24 hours or something. But probably too complicated at this point to implement without bugs.
I'm pretty sure Absolute -- the guild I am in -- would gladly ally with PVE guilds and trade conq shards for stuff we need but don't want to do the PVE to get.
But again, if boon sharing is allowed, why do the lower tier guilds need to upgrade anything? They can simply get everything from the Helm guild and focus on upgrading the helm guild to max in order to maximize their shared boons.
I can see two solutions that make sense based on human nature.
1. make all the bonuses equal for all ranks of guilds, or
2. do what someone suggested above, and provide a bonus to the coffers of lower guilds when a higher guild donates to their own coffer. For example, if someone donates 1000 of something to the helm guild's coffer, the helm guild gets 1000 of the thing, all the sword guilds below them get 250 of it, and all the gauntlet guilds get 100. If someone gives 1000 things to a sword guild coffer, 1000 goes to the sword guild, and 250 goes to the gauntlet guilds.
Both of these provide bonuses for alliances while still taking into account the self-interestedness of human nature. People are going to always donate to their own guilds first, making the current system basically useless for anyone but higher level guilds.
Every game that tries to implement some thing like this for the "community" always forgets how players ACTUALLY act. let's be real, admit that people aren't altruistic, they won't voluntarily help lower guilds, and make a system based on that assumption.
Leader of Conviction: find me in game if you're looking for a friendly guild!
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For all the spider-haters out there
Hi every1. Here is another idea that would make more sense then the current system. Please feel free to add or dismiss unrealistic things.
When Tier 1 guild members donate to another guild they gain 300% Guild Marks. When Tier 2 guild members donate to another guild they gain 200% Guild Marks. When Tier 3 guild members donate to another guild they gain 150% Guild Marks.
Leaders can donate (up to) 20% of a certain currency from their guild coffer to another guild (only 1 level up or/and down) thus gaining a new currency called Alliance marks. Member donations also gain some Alliance Marks for the guild.
Alliance marks will be something like Faerzress. After the guild has collected enough of them a guild leader can choose from the following things:
1. 15% off of a structure voucher. 2. +10% SH Boon Enhancment 3. +15% guild members AD gain 4. +50% guild members Seal/Glory Gain 5. +40% profession success chance (would be nice to finally get those SH weapons) 6. and so on...these were just some that came to mind.
Except the building voucher all others are a 1 week thing. Voucher is for 1 building till it's used. The Alliance Marks are reset after the benefit has been chosen.
This would give the guilds reason to help others in the system and thus gaining things for themselves.
Other things can be implemented of course but this would be some kind of a basis.
On the other subject: There is still a matter of all guilds in Alliance at rank 20 problem with donations.
Post edited by vida44 on
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tundrrabloomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 297Arc User
Q: with 13 guilds alliancing together, who invites? One main guild sends all the invites? Or does one guild send a couple and then another sends a couple and those combine to make 13?
How the hell did I delete my forum post? Can an admin return it? I tried to edit it (get this cyan color in) but all of a sudden the whole post dissapeared.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Q: with 13 guilds alliancing together, who invites? One main guild sends all the invites? Or does one guild send a couple and then another sends a couple and those combine to make 13?
There is one helm (alpha guild) that invites 3, each of those 3 (sword / beta) guilds invite also 3 (9 gamma / gauntlet guilds total)
It's a tree like structure. 1 + 3 + 3*3
The problem for now that it doesn't benefit much the smaller guilds at the middle / bottom, so no much use for it, especially for guild above GH12 (have access to full market / masterworks) and those that can kill dragons by themselves.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited May 2016
USEFUL ALLIANCE BONUSES (NOT XP GAIN )
Ideas for small useful alliance bonuses that any guild (REGARDLESS OF LEVEL ) Should want that are not too over powered unbalancing or exploitable
+1%- 5% extra chance at crafting master work items ....extra retry chance on a failure perhaps
+1%-5% extra alliance party grouping bonuses (incoming healing / power) whatever just like how stronghold weapon work
+ ? extra movement speed in the strong hold or on the roads just like in stronghold siege / alliance mount
/ bonus /Free rank 2 ap wards and rank 2 stamina wards
bound to account/character purple workers or tools (alliance assets) 1 time use or 3 times or whatever bound to account
Perhaps some rental or disposable item that last 2 hours or 4 or whatever in pvp only ... normall wepon / armor enchant Tenacity Enchament that works for alliance memeber with or 2.5k less gear score
Perhaps some rental or disposable item that last 2 hours or 4 or whatever in pve only ... normall wepon / armor enchant or an alliance companion ...
Perhaps scrolls of fate: vendor with shard of power boost / influence boost or whatever just like the xp boost and glory boost.
daily influence cap / diminishing returns should be raised from 400 or so to 800
An only alliance group stats bonus boon somewhat like the ones that gives a whole bunch of stats based on if the whole party has it perhaps this boon is the incentive for the large guild to support smallers and not removes them if not they lose benefits of this alliance boon
Chance at coupon droping in the alliance that give bonuses resources to building structure eg 25% 50% etc just like trade bar jack pot only its a structure jackpot the longer a guild is in alliance more this chance increases .. this can be added to a profession task and then traded in for your chance.. or even a rare chance at a free structure of your choice
perhaps a boon or something alliance based that is adding a bonus to a certain donation type per guild in the alliance
I still would want there to be a vendor table / black list / white list ..to check off what can be purchased or not from certain vendors for example i would want all alliance members to be able to buy rank 2 wards but not rank 2 drains for example they wont need to equip them as an excuse now cause they will be carried/supplemented with common guild boons from the alliance like the rest of us (you guys are already working on class balance and such why not implement it at the grass roots level)
or that they are forced to make smart choices by buying stuff they need the most first and not buying/contributing stuff they /we dont need yet (options should be greyed out for areas not to donate to or things you should not / cant buy yet from vendors as well)
may as well protect alliance members from themselves if they cant /wont govern their members accordingly for setting goals
How bout a new building, Mercenary Camp. Every level gives 10% of your boons to the other guilds in the alliance.Then you would actually need to have rank 10 boon buildings and the Mercenary Camp for other guilds to want to join, unless they just want access to the traders.
I like the sound of helm getting ad boost as a benefit. That would make any guild want to be on the top, even if it is just a small boost. Big guilds are going to want something out of the deal no matter what way you are spinning. And what they want is of course something that will put them further ahead in the game, they won't settle for less. Some extra AD gain might give them a reasonable and desirable benefit that won't go too far.
Making the boosts dependent on the total gl in the alliance kinda blows. But it will want the helm guild to improve the smaller guilds. And prevent them from making one man alt guilds to just fill the 12 slots to get a flat bonus. Giving the helm ad will also make smaller guilds want to break out and make their own helm when they are mature. So the helm guild would probably only want to help them to a certain point. Perhaps till they start building the Mercenary Camp.
With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.
There is no way that I would use my resources to upgrade a rich guild, even for boons. Why would they not just kick you after they are maxed?
Because then they can't get Guild Marks easily and lose the bonuses they get from having guilds in the alliance. Guild Marks are a huge source of AD for many players. And they risk alliance instability -- kicking a guild from the alliance is no small thing, and could cause quite a bit of drama.
Your exact same comment was made about strongholds in the past. 'Why should I be forced to donate to a guild to get boons when they can just kick me afterwards?'. If you don't want to join a guild (or alliance) and risk being kicked at some point, then don't. But the benefits are significant (boons, vendors, gear, friends to play with, etc).
I find one specific comment in this thread to be highly important for the relevance of guild alliances and that is:
Have the donations trickle down. You donate to the coffer 100% goes to that guild and 25% bonus goes to the alliance guilds
If we can't give off some of our own resources without having to directly take it to another guilds coffer, this will help warm up smaller guilds to the idea that the "Helms" are truly looking out for the smaller guilds, and not using them for alliance benefits.
LGPG Leader Indy - XB1 & PS4 - GF xeV Indy - PS4 - TR Nde - XB1 - HR GT: its indy time PSN: itsindytime Twitch: indygoinlive The Kanye West of Neverwinter
So, the rich guilds should pay taxes to the lower guilds because they need the smaller guilds more than the smaller guilds need them. It would probably be better for Absolute just to bring back PD and Synergy and not bother with other guilds.
It's mutual. Small guilds get the boons, market access, large scale events, etc, while big guilds get access to guild marks and help ranking up further. It's a pretty good system so long as boons can be shared.
Small guilds don't have to waste the millions of AD on boons and strongholds that the bigger guilds had to spend. win-win.
You guys forget....creating a guild isnt hard. If all the helm guild wants is marks they can just create more guilds starting fresh. There has to be benefits both ways.
I think the idea of the trickle up/down system is the best idea for resources. As for the bonuses...same across the board regardless of which stage you are in the guild.
the point is that guild marks are useless srsly. why should even 10x guild marks give any1 here any incentive to donate a single drop of his farmed ressources towards another guild??????? Thats the same thing with regeneration when terramak once said that its kinda "useless" so we give you a whole lot of it. And in your previous posts the only thing you mentioned is to give more "useless" guild marks. How is that going to help ?
Guild marks allow you to purchase Explorers Charts for 3k marks which allow you to get 6 masterwork resources per chart, these sell for anywhere from 500 to 10000 AD per resource depending on the resource. Or, you save them up and send them to your favorite masterwork crafting and have them make you a shiny thing.
Long story short, guild marks only useless if you let them be useless
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
You guys forget....creating a guild isnt hard. If all the helm guild wants is marks they can just create more guilds starting fresh. There has to be benefits both ways.
I think the idea of the trickle up/down system is the best idea for resources. As for the bonuses...same across the board regardless of which stage you are in the guild.
Yes, benefits must exist both ways, as well as checks and balances. This is why there should be a the guild mark bonus that increases as guild alliance level increases. The guild mark limit requires max guilds to ally with lower-tier guilds, and the guild mark bonus encourages max guilds to ally with active non-alt lower-tier guilds. I doubt any helm guild wants to try to rank up 12 alt guilds by themselves.. much better to ally with active smaller guilds.
Helm guilds naturally benefit from aligning with small active guilds via guild marks, guild mark bonus %, and help reaching max. Small guilds naturally benefit from aligning with large active guilds via boons, market access, vendor access, large scale events like dragonflights, and eventually help leveling up once helm is near max.
I think many people in this thread are thinking about this completely backwards. Small guilds are already significantly benefited by joining a large guild alliance. They do not really need additional structure discounts because they don't even need to upgrade their stronghold; they already get the benefits from the helm guild (assuming boons become sharable). Instead, the entire alliance should focus on upgrading their max guild in order to improve their shared boons.
The problem with this line of thinking: It means the lower-ranked guilds will feed the higher-ranked one, but the higher-ranked one is also in a position of power over the lower-ranked ones, being the apex of the pyramid structure. Essentially, the lower-ranked guilds are entirely at the mercy of the higher-ranked one; all their benefits are based on staying within the alliance, while the higher-ranked guild gets permanent upgrades. This creates the potential for scenarios where players in small guilds will contribute a lot, only to still not satisfy the head guild's expectations and get kicked and lose all the benefits -- and the investment they've made.
This scenario already exists in the form of strongholds. Guilds hold the power (players can be kicked). It was a concern raised back then, but largely hasn't been an issue.
Also, see my response above (pasted below as well). Helm guilds don't have all of the power -- they benefit from having non-alt, active small guilds in the alliance.
Yes, benefits must exist both ways, as well as checks and balances. This is why there should be a guild mark bonus that increases as guild alliance level increases. The guild mark limit requires max guilds to ally with lower-tier guilds, and the guild mark bonus encourages max guilds to ally with active non-alt lower-tier guilds. I doubt any helm guild wants to try to rank up 12 alt guilds by themselves.. much better to ally with active smaller guilds.
Helm guilds naturally benefit from aligning with small active guilds via guild marks, guild mark bonus %, and help reaching max. Small guilds naturally benefit from aligning with large active guilds via boons, market access, vendor access, large scale events like dragonflights, and eventually help leveling up once helm is near max.
Can I contribute the point of view of one of those smaller, casual guilds? My guild members are quite fearful of this new Alliance structure and generally voting against it. We've already had our guild stolen once, after a previous leader's account got hacked, and had to rebuild. We're Fair Dinkum: PVE focused, Australian time zone active, casual and try to be friendly and helpful. We've gained members who've left the bigger guilds that demanded mandatory monthly contributions. The likelihood of some larger guild telling us what we can and can't do though is what makes people say no to the whole idea of complex alliances. We don't need more drama and demands - we have our own prima-donnas to deal with What we want is the ability to ally with similar level guilds to have shared Dragonflights and dungeon runs and give our PVP and USA and European members other folks to run with. Many of our highest level alts can already deal with the content, so rushing our stronghold development with a discount isn't as big an attraction as you might think
What we want is the ability to ally with similar level guilds to have shared Dragonflights and dungeon runs and give our USA and European members other folks to run with. Many of our highest level alts can already deal with the content, so rushing our stronghold development with a discount isn't as big an attraction as you might think
This is really a key element the system is missing badly. An alliance should be a group of equal partners and likeminded guilds, not a hierarchical structure. Let the big boys rule the world and all, but smaller guilds should be able to collaborate entirely without them.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited May 2016
Agreed. There should be different types of alliances, basically flexibility in alliance structure, one of which is a collection of similar small/mid guilds that band together primarily to do large scale events like dragon flights.
I'm not sure this is missing from the current setup on the PTR. Nothing stops small guilds from banding together in just this way. It would be better for the bonuses to be uniform, though.
Iyon the Dark
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I think many people in this thread are thinking about this completely backwards. Small guilds are already significantly benefited by joining a large guild alliance. They do not really need additional structure discounts because they don't even need to upgrade their stronghold; they already get the benefits from the helm guild (assuming boons become sharable). Instead, the entire alliance should focus on upgrading their max guild in order to improve their shared boons.
The problem with this line of thinking: It means the lower-ranked guilds will feed the higher-ranked one, but the higher-ranked one is also in a position of power over the lower-ranked ones, being the apex of the pyramid structure. Essentially, the lower-ranked guilds are entirely at the mercy of the higher-ranked one; all their benefits are based on staying within the alliance, while the higher-ranked guild gets permanent upgrades. This creates the potential for scenarios where players in small guilds will contribute a lot, only to still not satisfy the head guild's expectations and get kicked and lose all the benefits -- and the investment they've made.
This is exactly what makes me nervous about that scenario.
I think many people in this thread are thinking about this completely backwards. Small guilds are already significantly benefited by joining a large guild alliance. They do not really need additional structure discounts because they don't even need to upgrade their stronghold; they already get the benefits from the helm guild (assuming boons become sharable). Instead, the entire alliance should focus on upgrading their max guild in order to improve their shared boons.
The problem with this line of thinking: It means the lower-ranked guilds will feed the higher-ranked one, but the higher-ranked one is also in a position of power over the lower-ranked ones, being the apex of the pyramid structure. Essentially, the lower-ranked guilds are entirely at the mercy of the higher-ranked one; all their benefits are based on staying within the alliance, while the higher-ranked guild gets permanent upgrades. This creates the potential for scenarios where players in small guilds will contribute a lot, only to still not satisfy the head guild's expectations and get kicked and lose all the benefits -- and the investment they've made.
This is exactly what makes me nervous about that scenario.
People were worried about this with strongholds too. Big guilds just using people for their coffer contributions and then kicking them. It just doesn't happen often, and it shouldn't happen here either if the appropriate incentives are in place (guild marks and guild mark % bonus). This should be sufficient in most cases. If someone ends up in an alliance they don't like, can always leave and find or start another one. This is leverage against the helm guild, as they will now have to find another active small guild for their alliance in order to keep their bonuses and coffer contributions. Not to mention the potential morale hit from losing an ally.
Ok, writing this second time since the first got deleted for some reason. -.-
The idea that would make more sense is like this.
Donation from members from the HELM will give 300% more Guild marks (when donated to other guilds). Donation from members from the SWORD will give 200% more Guild marks (when donated to other guilds). Donation from members from the GAUNTLET will give 150% more Guild marks (when donated to other guilds). Guild leaders can donate (up to) 20% resources from their own coffer to the other guild (only one level up or down so that you only care for those guild you chose).
Every one of those donations will give the guild (not a player) a new currency called Alliance Marks. Collecting Alliance Marks will push you toward a "15% off all resources" voucher for one building upgrade or some other benefit (for a guild that has already maxed everything). If a benefit has been chosen the Alliance Marks reset and we go again. Other suggestions would be a +10% guild boon enhancement for a week, +40% on profession success for a week and so on.
This will give guilds a reason to donate to other guilds.
This would be some kind of a basis.
P.S. I wrote this only because they decided to make this system, but personally for me it's pointless to waste resources on this module.
Comments
Thats the same thing with regeneration when terramak once said that its kinda "useless" so we give you a whole lot of it.
And in your previous posts the only thing you mentioned is to give more "useless" guild marks. How is that going to help ?
Iyon the Dark
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A real problem with the SH system is that there are specific currency chokepoints, and I'm not sure alliances will help in that regard.
Every medium-sized pve guild I know is struggling to get Conqueror's Shards to upgrade their Barracks for the power boon, and most guilds are having trouble getting enough Gems and Influence, and/or campaign currencies (besides Dark Gifts).
With all guilds in the alliance chasing the same currency, who will be donating to the other guilds?
You really need to look again at strongholds currency. Tyranny is in a much better spot now, and AD has actually gotten almost too easy to cap. Fey and Frozen have improved with the daily task, and for some reason there are not enough sinks for Dark Gifts so that is always donation-capped. Surplus Equipment got a boost from professions tasks, and the upgraded Quartermaster's Enchants will solve that problem. Gems were hit hard by the loss of botted stacks of rank 4s, but people can use Alchemy and Jewelcrafting professions and insignia drops to help some there.
Switch some upgrades to require Dark Gifts rather than the other campaigns, give us new ways to earn Influence -- or double the cap - and either remove Conqueror's Shards from the Barracks build, or at least halve the amounts. Rank 4 Barracks (+2000 Power) takes a total of 16,300 Conqueror's Shards, and it's another 16k shards to reach rank 6. That is very hard for a pve guild to reach,
Conqueror's Shards would be the one currency the big pvp guilds could donate to others in their alliance, but judging from their gameplay right now, I expect the big pvp guilds to band together and only donate to themselves or to puppet alt guilds. I don't see Absolute reaching out a helping hand to the many friends-and-family guilds...
I'm pretty sure Absolute -- the guild I am in -- would gladly ally with PVE guilds and trade conq shards for stuff we need but don't want to do the PVE to get.
But again, if boon sharing is allowed, why do the lower tier guilds need to upgrade anything? They can simply get everything from the Helm guild and focus on upgrading the helm guild to max in order to maximize their shared boons.
Iyon the Dark
1. make all the bonuses equal for all ranks of guilds, or
2. do what someone suggested above, and provide a bonus to the coffers of lower guilds when a higher guild donates to their own coffer. For example, if someone donates 1000 of something to the helm guild's coffer, the helm guild gets 1000 of the thing, all the sword guilds below them get 250 of it, and all the gauntlet guilds get 100. If someone gives 1000 things to a sword guild coffer, 1000 goes to the sword guild, and 250 goes to the gauntlet guilds.
Both of these provide bonuses for alliances while still taking into account the self-interestedness of human nature. People are going to always donate to their own guilds first, making the current system basically useless for anyone but higher level guilds.
Every game that tries to implement some thing like this for the "community" always forgets how players ACTUALLY act. let's be real, admit that people aren't altruistic, they won't voluntarily help lower guilds, and make a system based on that assumption.
Looking for reviews (will trade)!
Arachnophobia
Code: NW-DMRQYIZQT
For all the spider-haters out there
Hi every1.
Here is another idea that would make more sense then the current system. Please feel free to add or dismiss unrealistic things.
When Tier 1 guild members donate to another guild they gain 300% Guild Marks.
When Tier 2 guild members donate to another guild they gain 200% Guild Marks.
When Tier 3 guild members donate to another guild they gain 150% Guild Marks.
Leaders can donate (up to) 20% of a certain currency from their guild coffer to another guild (only 1 level up or/and down) thus gaining a new currency called Alliance marks.
Member donations also gain some Alliance Marks for the guild.
Alliance marks will be something like Faerzress. After the guild has collected enough of them a guild leader can choose from the following things:
1. 15% off of a structure voucher.
2. +10% SH Boon Enhancment
3. +15% guild members AD gain
4. +50% guild members Seal/Glory Gain
5. +40% profession success chance (would be nice to finally get those SH weapons)
6. and so on...these were just some that came to mind.
Except the building voucher all others are a 1 week thing. Voucher is for 1 building till it's used.
The Alliance Marks are reset after the benefit has been chosen.
This would give the guilds reason to help others in the system and thus gaining things for themselves.
Other things can be implemented of course but this would be some kind of a basis.
On the other subject:
There is still a matter of all guilds in Alliance at rank 20 problem with donations.
Q: with 13 guilds alliancing together, who invites? One main guild sends all the invites? Or does one guild send a couple and then another sends a couple and those combine to make 13?
***Guild Recruitment Information***
It's a tree like structure. 1 + 3 + 3*3
The problem for now that it doesn't benefit much the smaller guilds at the middle / bottom, so no much use for it, especially for guild above GH12 (have access to full market / masterworks) and those that can kill dragons by themselves.
Ideas for small useful alliance bonuses that any guild (REGARDLESS OF LEVEL ) Should want that are not too over powered unbalancing or exploitable
+1%- 5% extra chance at crafting master work items ....extra retry chance on a failure perhaps
+1%-5% extra alliance party grouping bonuses (incoming healing / power) whatever just like how stronghold weapon work
+ ? extra movement speed in the strong hold or on the roads just like in stronghold siege / alliance mount
/ bonus /Free rank 2 ap wards and rank 2 stamina wards
bound to account/character purple workers or tools (alliance assets) 1 time use or 3 times or whatever bound to account
Perhaps some rental or disposable item that last 2 hours or 4 or whatever in pvp only ... normall wepon / armor enchant
Tenacity Enchament that works for alliance memeber with or 2.5k less gear score
Perhaps some rental or disposable item that last 2 hours or 4 or whatever in pve only ... normall wepon / armor enchant
or an alliance companion ...
Perhaps scrolls of fate: vendor with shard of power boost / influence boost or whatever just like the xp boost and glory boost.
daily influence cap / diminishing returns should be raised from 400 or so to 800
An only alliance group stats bonus boon somewhat like the ones that gives a whole bunch of stats based on if the whole party has it
perhaps this boon is the incentive for the large guild to support smallers and not removes them if not
they lose benefits of this alliance boon
Chance at coupon droping in the alliance that give bonuses resources to building structure eg 25% 50% etc just like trade bar jack pot only its a structure jackpot the longer a guild is in alliance more this chance increases .. this can be added to a profession task and then traded in for your chance.. or even a rare chance at a free structure of your choice
perhaps a boon or something alliance based that is adding a bonus to a certain donation type per guild in the alliance
I still would want there to be a vendor table / black list / white list ..to check off what can be purchased or not from certain vendors
for example i would want all alliance members to be able to buy rank 2 wards but not rank 2 drains for example
they wont need to equip them as an excuse now cause they will be carried/supplemented with common guild boons from the alliance like the rest of us (you guys are already working on class balance and such why not implement it at the grass roots level)
or that they are forced to make smart choices by buying stuff they need the most first and not buying/contributing stuff they /we dont need yet (options should be greyed out for areas not to donate to or things you should not / cant buy yet from vendors as well)
may as well protect alliance members from themselves if they cant /wont govern their members accordingly for setting goals
I like the sound of helm getting ad boost as a benefit. That would make any guild want to be on the top, even if it is just a small boost. Big guilds are going to want something out of the deal no matter what way you are spinning. And what they want is of course something that will put them further ahead in the game, they won't settle for less. Some extra AD gain might give them a reasonable and desirable benefit that won't go too far.
Making the boosts dependent on the total gl in the alliance kinda blows. But it will want the helm guild to improve the smaller guilds. And prevent them from making one man alt guilds to just fill the 12 slots to get a flat bonus. Giving the helm ad will also make smaller guilds want to break out and make their own helm when they are mature. So the helm guild would probably only want to help them to a certain point. Perhaps till they start building the Mercenary Camp.
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Your exact same comment was made about strongholds in the past. 'Why should I be forced to donate to a guild to get boons when they can just kick me afterwards?'. If you don't want to join a guild (or alliance) and risk being kicked at some point, then don't. But the benefits are significant (boons, vendors, gear, friends to play with, etc).
Iyon the Dark
Have the donations trickle down. You donate to the coffer 100% goes to that guild and 25% bonus goes to the alliance guilds
If we can't give off some of our own resources without having to directly take it to another guilds coffer, this will help warm up smaller guilds to the idea that the "Helms" are truly looking out for the smaller guilds, and not using them for alliance benefits.
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Small guilds don't have to waste the millions of AD on boons and strongholds that the bigger guilds had to spend. win-win.
Iyon the Dark
I think the idea of the trickle up/down system is the best idea for resources. As for the bonuses...same across the board regardless of which stage you are in the guild.
Long story short, guild marks only useless if you let them be useless
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Helm guilds naturally benefit from aligning with small active guilds via guild marks, guild mark bonus %, and help reaching max.
Small guilds naturally benefit from aligning with large active guilds via boons, market access, vendor access, large scale events like dragonflights, and eventually help leveling up once helm is near max.
Iyon the Dark
Also, see my response above (pasted below as well). Helm guilds don't have all of the power -- they benefit from having non-alt, active small guilds in the alliance.
Iyon the Dark
My guild members are quite fearful of this new Alliance structure and generally voting against it. We've already had our guild stolen once, after a previous leader's account got hacked, and had to rebuild. We're Fair Dinkum: PVE focused, Australian time zone active, casual and try to be friendly and helpful. We've gained members who've left the bigger guilds that demanded mandatory monthly contributions. The likelihood of some larger guild telling us what we can and can't do though is what makes people say no to the whole idea of complex alliances. We don't need more drama and demands - we have our own prima-donnas to deal with
What we want is the ability to ally with similar level guilds to have shared Dragonflights and dungeon runs and give our PVP and USA and European members other folks to run with. Many of our highest level alts can already deal with the content, so rushing our stronghold development with a discount isn't as big an attraction as you might think
I'm not sure this is missing from the current setup on the PTR. Nothing stops small guilds from banding together in just this way. It would be better for the bonuses to be uniform, though.
Iyon the Dark
I think people gotta be mindful though that this will make masterwork resources more plentiful and correspondingly less profitable.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Iyon the Dark
Ok, writing this second time since the first got deleted for some reason. -.-
The idea that would make more sense is like this.
Donation from members from the HELM will give 300% more Guild marks (when donated to other guilds).
Donation from members from the SWORD will give 200% more Guild marks (when donated to other guilds).
Donation from members from the GAUNTLET will give 150% more Guild marks (when donated to other guilds).
Guild leaders can donate (up to) 20% resources from their own coffer to the other guild (only one level up or down so that you only care for those guild you chose).
Every one of those donations will give the guild (not a player) a new currency called Alliance Marks.
Collecting Alliance Marks will push you toward a "15% off all resources" voucher for one building upgrade or some other benefit (for a guild that has already maxed everything). If a benefit has been chosen the Alliance Marks reset and we go again.
Other suggestions would be a +10% guild boon enhancement for a week, +40% on profession success for a week and so on.
This will give guilds a reason to donate to other guilds.
This would be some kind of a basis.
P.S. I wrote this only because they decided to make this system, but personally for me it's pointless to waste resources on this module.