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Steps in Fixing PVP
seventhpillar
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
PVP really is getting out of hand and new players who step in to try it out normally comes out with a bad taste in their mouth. One of the biggest issue is power creep and lots and lots of items that should not be in domination. Sure one might argue a lot of these things are the incentive of being in guild per se but hear me out as those things can stay in SH PVP or GG PVP and leave domination to a much more streamlined and as close as possible, fair.
First thing first, all guild boons, drains, rings with active/passive effects (underdark) should not be allowed on slot for domination. When you queue for dom, it locks your gear to where you cannot swap until the end of the match. Only LOL/IWD overload enchants will be slotable for you to queue. Guild boons should not also be a factor in domination because it increases the distance between a normal player and a player that has been in a more established guild. Let's put this in perspective, you have a both Lvl 20 toons, one in an established guild that has extra 32K HP, vs one with no extras. Even with the same gear, we already know the outcome, not to mention the other extras you get from the guild boon. At a minimum, I say remove the rings, drains and guild boons and that would already take care 75% of the issues in 5v5 domination.
If removing the above stated items or there are objections, then perhaps make a new queue that does what was described above. Make the one that is stripped down competitive and make the current one now as casual pvp or vice versa whichever you think is competitive. To me, removing the extra's is more competitive. Heck, you could even add the companion active bonus to the casual one to make it more fun for those who enjoy that, however, this should only happen if what I described above exist.
On lower level PVP, the enchats SHOULD scale to character level. When you leveling, say lvl 20, most of the enchants available are only rank 3, maybe 4 when you get drops from mobs. All rank 12 enchants slotted to lower lvl toon should only give the max available enchant a toon can get based on where they should be in quest. Same goes for armor and weapon enchants, they should go no higher than lesser and scale to lesser, equalizing the field. This will prevent face rolling new players and would be more enticed to play PVP at lower levels. Out of PVP, the effects of scaling will be negated and you will get full stats so you can power level your toon.
Before the match starts, all active buffs should be wiped from all players when the timer hits fight, to include all AP in the bar. No one should be able to preempt and all should be given the same start. There are some powers/buffs that go into the match because they were in a fight with mobs while queuing, so this should eliminate that.
Healing has been crazy on this game so far, especially self-healing. On the competitive pvp I stated, self-healing should be limited to 200% of HP every 60 seconds, not to exceed 200K HP. That should be enough. This way we don't have immortals holding down 4-5 players.
Mount speed should be equalized and all players in match would have 110% movement speed mounts. Makes it fair.
That's all I can think of for now, they may be far fetched but I believe people would enjoy PVP more if a few of the suggestions were taken into account and implemented. I know it's a wall of text. I know a lot would probably disagree with me as taking the guild boon away would take away the attraction of being in a guild, but I believe it won't. I am in a guild and believe in can coexist and people that want BiS gear would like to be in a guild and work on their SH. I just really want to enjoy PVP more and new players to have better experience with it and make the community grow.
Thanks for your time.
First thing first, all guild boons, drains, rings with active/passive effects (underdark) should not be allowed on slot for domination. When you queue for dom, it locks your gear to where you cannot swap until the end of the match. Only LOL/IWD overload enchants will be slotable for you to queue. Guild boons should not also be a factor in domination because it increases the distance between a normal player and a player that has been in a more established guild. Let's put this in perspective, you have a both Lvl 20 toons, one in an established guild that has extra 32K HP, vs one with no extras. Even with the same gear, we already know the outcome, not to mention the other extras you get from the guild boon. At a minimum, I say remove the rings, drains and guild boons and that would already take care 75% of the issues in 5v5 domination.
If removing the above stated items or there are objections, then perhaps make a new queue that does what was described above. Make the one that is stripped down competitive and make the current one now as casual pvp or vice versa whichever you think is competitive. To me, removing the extra's is more competitive. Heck, you could even add the companion active bonus to the casual one to make it more fun for those who enjoy that, however, this should only happen if what I described above exist.
On lower level PVP, the enchats SHOULD scale to character level. When you leveling, say lvl 20, most of the enchants available are only rank 3, maybe 4 when you get drops from mobs. All rank 12 enchants slotted to lower lvl toon should only give the max available enchant a toon can get based on where they should be in quest. Same goes for armor and weapon enchants, they should go no higher than lesser and scale to lesser, equalizing the field. This will prevent face rolling new players and would be more enticed to play PVP at lower levels. Out of PVP, the effects of scaling will be negated and you will get full stats so you can power level your toon.
Before the match starts, all active buffs should be wiped from all players when the timer hits fight, to include all AP in the bar. No one should be able to preempt and all should be given the same start. There are some powers/buffs that go into the match because they were in a fight with mobs while queuing, so this should eliminate that.
Healing has been crazy on this game so far, especially self-healing. On the competitive pvp I stated, self-healing should be limited to 200% of HP every 60 seconds, not to exceed 200K HP. That should be enough. This way we don't have immortals holding down 4-5 players.
Mount speed should be equalized and all players in match would have 110% movement speed mounts. Makes it fair.
That's all I can think of for now, they may be far fetched but I believe people would enjoy PVP more if a few of the suggestions were taken into account and implemented. I know it's a wall of text. I know a lot would probably disagree with me as taking the guild boon away would take away the attraction of being in a guild, but I believe it won't. I am in a guild and believe in can coexist and people that want BiS gear would like to be in a guild and work on their SH. I just really want to enjoy PVP more and new players to have better experience with it and make the community grow.
Thanks for your time.
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Comments
Lack of balance was disqusse to many times already. But really, really I can't understand why we have to play the same 2 maps in one type of domination for a 3 years?
Open IWD pvp is a lag fest. SH is empty and even, if you get somehow a que - it's unplayable cause of extreme lagz, no mention laging skills of OP and others.
Give us dueling system. I'm 42 old years man, who remember tetris on my ZX80 and monochromatic TV. There was a duel system!!
Neverwinter, an MMORPG anno 2016 don't have it !
If you speak about lvl 20 pvp toons, first you don't have 100% of guild boon at this level, and secondly i can't remember any stuff with overflow enchants so no stamina drain at this level, and no lvl 70 ring too.
I think the whole lot pvp need a serious rework, because it's no fun anymore.
Additional Suggestions:
Gear
Remove the separate PVP set. Instead, gear will have an additional slot. This slot will only take special Tenacity Gems. These gems would have gems that slots to specific parts like head/body/arm/foot so you cannot stack more than what the new mod has to offer, which would be for example 2500. Now, there are gems that might be lower that you can get/buy using glory. Important thing is no more refinement of this type of gem (we have enough to refine thank you very much). It will just be like buying the armor from a vendor but instead of being an armor, it's a gem that you can slot to add tenacity to your gear. Let's say if you like PVE, you don't need to chase around PVP gear, you can come in and start playing. Yes, you will die faster because you don't have tenacity but as you win/lose matches and gain glory, you can slowly buy lower Tenacity Gems, making you tougher until you get enough to buy the higher versions. This will not only save players from having to have to sets of gear but also in development and design of armor for classes. Not only that, it will also open a large possibilities of mix and matching of gear without the worry of making them PVP viable. Same can be said about jewelry and I believe this would be one of the greatest thing ever if it gets implemented.
PVP Gameplay
Let's face it, there are only two maps and 1 game mod. Get's tiring pretty quick. Why not add a few things? For example, a capture the flag gameplay? That should be straight forward to implement.
How about a VIP gameplay where one random player is marked as VIP and can only use at wills. The rest of the team have to protect the VIP while trying to get to an escape point. The opposing team tries to kill the VIP. Yes, it's direct from old CS 1.6/CS GO but I believe could be fun in Neverwinter.
Maybe a power based deathmatch, where you are given random at-wills, encounters, class feats and daily with each kill.
There are endless possibilities to this, just look around, no need to reinvent the wheel, heck a simple way to invite someone to 1v1 would be freaking awesome like @orkuniu mentioned and the maps could be as simple as the one used for quest leveling.
If you guys can think of better things, post them. Could spark great ideas for the future of PVP.
The game is already tracking your PVP stats in the PVP campaign and if you check out the leader board you can see where you rank. Perhaps it is really only the queuing process that needs to be reworked. it could be as simple as number of kills in pvp that earn you which percentile queue you fall into. You can see the higher skilled players and the BiS players would quickly rise to the top percentiles. This would allow ppl who do well enough in PVE but get swamped in PVP to battle it out in the lower percentile queues. So as an example my squishlock level 65 might be battening for years at the 80ith percentile while the TRs with thousands of kills will still be pitted against those of similar skill level at the highest percentile.
The current system is like putting all students in the AP math class, where some students could benefit from being with learners of their own ability. This aforementioned design would allow you to eventually get to the AP Math class, but you have to earn it.
I am sure there are other PVP stats that could be used to queue the various groups, but you would have to leave deaths out because of the imbalance in the classes. I think trying to root out what the character has slotted and locking things down when you are in the PVP map is a coding nightmare. Especially, when the developers need to continually create new content, perform bug fixes, and read the forums just to get bashed.
-Thanks
They tried to match people with equivalent gear, but the result was 40min queue before one match.
Nothing.
They just keep stacking broken on top of broken.
Another suggestion gameplay, what about an in-class queue where you can 1v1 someone based on your win-lose ratio. You will only compete with someone in your class and will be purely gear/stat independent as you will be given 5 minutes to set your skills, feats and will not have boons. This will be a pure skill based ranking.
Make a queue with equalized stats for everyone and nothing else allowed.
Then you can start to work on the class balance.
I m laughing a lot when i see people saying to us, you should remove this and that to fix PVP, picking what they want.
So when i read that they should remove rings guild boons drain wards ok but why not transcendant enchants? rank 12-11-10-9 etc etc enchants, patch armor and campaign boons?
It is the same thing.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Strictly speaking If I was told to balance classes for both pve and pvp for this game, I might as well make a new game myself instead.
Effectively, F2P business models, are like the arms-dealers in a world of PvP gaming. They sell game-changing weapons to both sides, and its not just AK-47s. They sell nukes. What becomes then, is easily predictable.
Conventional warfare doesn't matter any more. It doesn't matter if you've got better soldiers and brilliant tacticians. The other side has nukes. The other side doesn't need to spend time in combat to earn experience and take time to equip better gear for their armies. They just pay the cash, buy the nuke, and blast your cities to kingdom come. So you need to match the firepower, or your side is done for. And then, when everyone is equipped with nukes, suddenly, the warfare isn't so dynamic and hot any more. Where once soldiers from both sides used to fight to push the others out, where armies tried all sorts of tactics and strategies, there's now only nukes flying around without a people in sight.
Now, if this was a RTS wargame, you tell me who is gonna play a load of krap like this. In the end the 'armsdealer', ultimately kills off the war itself through its greed. This is why F2P models are usually designed to be more close to a short-term scam, rather than provide a long-term "game" people can enjoy. They make one F2P game, cash in, the game dies off, shut it down, create another copycat F2p, cash in again, ad infinitum.
...
That being said, it's not impossible to reach a point of compromise. The 'arms dealer' could stop selling nukes, retrieve all nuclear weapons that were proliferated from the battlefield, and show a sense of discipline and decorum and limit itself to selling 'conventional arms', so that a stream of battle never ceases, a state of war where non-nuclear balance is reached for all sides, and people have to once more duke it out in the battle field in the conventional manner.
In the end, its not like people are demanding the corporations to become philanthropists. People are just asking for a fair amount balance in everything, so that they are not pressured into spending outrageous amounts of money into stuff that breaks the aspect of combat itself. Provide gears and items with small advantages that makes it little more likely for you to win at a fair price, rather than fekkin' sell a portable nuke launcher that reaches full potential if you spend like 500 dollars to upgrade it, for crying out loud (*#^&(!^.
Take me for example. This whole disgusting ordeal has forced me to stay away from mod8 completely. Now, if I decide to come back at some point, would I be able to gear myself up to be competitive again by spending some amount of time farming? Like, I wouldn't need to be on the levels of max-BiS pigwhales, but at least a notch or two below them that would at least give some amount of fair chance to have a good fight. I haven't abuse the AD related bugs, like ever, nor have I leadership mule accounts which people used to bot horde in ADs unfairly. With this kind of resource, would it be possible for me to come back at some point, spend time in earnest to become competitive? If that's a yes, then this game can consider itself 'fixed'.
If I have to come back and frickin' find myself needing to acquire 5~6 more green-level artifact gear and spend hundreds of dollars worth of ADs in trying to buy all the RP needed to upgrade it all over again, and then spend additional resources to stick in some kind of new FotM broken-chit enchantment that becomes almost mandatory, or else, become a easy cannon fodder for every Dirk and Jane that's glowing shiny with cash-bought items, then no, games like this are not worthy of support.
The frickin' greed. Piggish, gluttonous need to drive the F2P aspect of the game to insane levels -- without this trend curbed, ultimately, no amount of 'fix' in game's gonna do any good.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
1. Domination (in the very least) should be bracketed by item level. Someone who is in the 2k item level bracket should not be fighting against 3K and 4K item level players.
2. There should be no perma anything (offense or defense).
3. Just as various powers are diminished against players, the Drowned weapon set should be severely adjusted for pvp.
4. The ambush rings should also be adjusted or removed.
Right now the way things are set up, unless you are hardcore pvp, you end up "gg"ing most matches hoping the winning team will let you cap twice (for your individual 600 points) so you at least get some astral diamonds for the frustration of having little to no chance for a relative fair fight.
While I hear (read) the previous poster stating PVPers are the biggest spenders, I still don't understand the value of being able to absolutely know you will face stop everyone around you with no danger of loosing... monotonous much?
Thank you.
2x8k stats vs GH rank 6 and stables rank 3 kills every aspect of contest going PVP having such a big gap betwen those player, thaks to mod 7.
It will take very long, even for guilds with 100+ player to close that gap and since there are lot´s of ppl not united in bigger guilds these player never will get a step in PVP at all.
A game with a smoldering population and boons gated like that is a misconcept especially for PVP imo.