Perma-Stealth Rogue...?

chriscrandar · October 2015

Why is this still a thing...? It's completely unfair for a rogue to be able to attack while not being able to get hit...

patsfire · October 2015

My god, is someone still crying about this? Don't you have more to worry about....like the OP HR's and their perma dazing? Get with the times, the TR is no longer a issue, its the HR

yourenext2die · October 2015

Really? I suppose it's fair for an HR to root/stun you until death and have the ability to stealth without taking damage and fill up AP fast enough to do it again and then switch to another set of encounter powers while the first 3 are on cool down? This thread needs to be closed.

stpensive · October 2015

Rogues have long enjoyed OP status in PVP; it's why the class has breed like rabbits and are a dime a dozen. It's my hope that they get nerfed to a mortal level and the game is cleansed of the krausen.

patsfire · October 2015

TR's are no longer an issue in PvP, its the HR's. Those who post dumb comments like ^^^^^ are simply one of the 95% TR haters on this forum. Most, if not all, who are just ignorant because they die to the TR all the time lol

deathbringer · October 2015

TR's are not a problem in PvP, its the HR's. People who post ignorant comments ^^^^, are just people on this forum who are TR haters, about 95% of the forum at my estimate.

Everyone knows the HR's are the problem in PvP now, if you can't see that....open your eyes.

rayrdan · October 2015

On pc right now paladins and gwfs are on crazy levels. The only thing left to tr is shocking. Its only a gear matter you will change opinions in a month

stpensive · October 2015

deathbringer#1709 said:
people on this forum who are TR haters, about 95% of the forum at my estimate.

It's 97.2%, just sayin....

deathbringer · October 2015

Sounds like a more accurate number GG

s4v10rx · October 2015

yourenext2die said:
Really? I suppose it's fair for an HR to root/stun you until death and have the ability to stealth without taking damage and fill up AP fast enough to do it again and then switch to another set of encounter powers while the first 3 are on cool down? This thread needs to be closed.

lol...ikr..the original poster must be a HR

anagramofevil · October 2015

yourenext2die said:
Really? I suppose it's fair for an HR to root/stun you until death and have the ability to stealth without taking damage and fill up AP fast enough to do it again and then switch to another set of encounter powers while the first 3 are on cool down? This thread needs to be closed.

Nope, neither is even the slightest bit balanced.

Trapper HRs and perma-stealth TRs are both game-breaking overpowered in PvP.

I think you play a TR from your other posts, and now I'm guessing you're running a perma-stealth build, since you sound all butthurt over this post. It takes no skill to stay invisible 100% of the time and hold down RT. When finally spotted, ITC, run a bit, re-stealth, rinse, repeat.

It should not be possible to stay invisible while actively attacking.

deathbringer · October 2015

@anagramofevil I think you play HR by your post, and now I am guessing you're running a perma-stun build......etc

chriscrandar · October 2015

I'm a Control Wizard... and yeah the Hunter is annoying, but at least you can fight it 2v1... With a perma-stealth rogue, you literally can't even fight it... You just hope for them to mess up, or run away... $:\$

I also agree that the Paladin and Haste Cleric combo needs to go... That is completely unfair also, and when a strategy is so unfair that literally the only option is to run away, it needs to be looked at

deathbringer · October 2015

You can fight a stealth TR 2v1 as well. Use an HR, they are OP as ****, and you 2 can probably cheese kill the TR.

As for the Pally/DC combo, it is not as bad as the HR still. Is it broke, maybe, but its on a lower level of broke when considering the HR.

yourenext2die · October 2015

Also, a TR takes tamage in

anagramofevil said:

yourenext2die said:
Really? I suppose it's fair for an HR to root/stun you until death and have the ability to stealth without taking damage and fill up AP fast enough to do it again and then switch to another set of encounter powers while the first 3 are on cool down? This thread needs to be closed.
Nope, neither is even the slightest bit balanced.

Trapper HRs and perma-stealth TRs are both game-breaking overpowered in PvP.

I think you play a TR from your other posts, and now I'm guessing you're running a perma-stealth build, since you sound all butthurt over this post. It takes no skill to stay invisible 100% of the time and hold down RT. When finally spotted, ITC, run a bit, re-stealth, rinse, repeat.

It should not be possible to stay invisible while actively attacking.

I'm running Executioner, not Sabo.

silktrocity · October 2015

chriscrandar said:
Why is this still a thing...? It's completely unfair for a rogue to be able to attack while not being able to get hit...

Ha. Maybe you should build a rogue before insinuating such nonsense..

1. To be "perma" we make a very real decision and choose a path that does significantly LESS damage.
2. To be good in PVP we literally only use 1 damage encounter and its merely a control. (smoke)
3. You can SEE US if we are close enough to you (pay attention.)
4. Lantern...
5. AoE's and other things that do hit us (we can be hit in stealth...) will PULL US OUT OF STEALTH.

If we melee you from stealth, you can see us.. you can hit us, and you can pull us out. We are not nearly as OP as we use to be because of the significant HP increase. PLUS our BiS PVP gear actually hurts our DPS by thousands of damage stats...

Unknown · October 2015

This content has been removed.

deathbringer · October 2015

What self respecting TR only throws daggers? I have never just "thrown daggers" in a PvP match or 1v1. Sounds like you just don't know how TR's actually work.

anagramofevil · October 2015

silktrocity said:
Ha. Maybe you should build a rogue before insinuating such nonsense..

1. To be "perma" we make a very real decision and choose a path that does significantly LESS damage.
2. To be good in PVP we literally only use 1 damage encounter and its merely a control. (smoke)
3. You can SEE US if we are close enough to you (pay attention.)
4. Lantern...
5. AoE's and other things that do hit us (we can be hit in stealth...) will PULL US OUT OF STEALTH.

You're the one spewing nonsense - you're just making BS excuses because you don't want your overpowered build to be changed. Perma-stealth is ridiculous - it should NOT be possible to continuously attack while staying invisible. Attacking in PvP SHOULD always pull you out of stealth.

On your specific points:

1. Irrelevant - you are still fully capable of dishing out enough damage in PvP to make easy kills (1v1 or otherwise).
2. Irrelevant - you stay invisible and throw daggers from range until your opponent is dead.
3. See above - your thrown daggers are far enough that you stay invisible. Your opponent has to guess at your location while taking damage the entire time. When we find you, you just run away and the process repeats. If we actually catch you with a stun, you ITC and again run away to re-stealth.
4. The Lantern lets us see you for only six seconds, the range is tiny (10 ft - your dagger range is longer), and is at best once every 60 seconds. Once found, you do the same ITC / running / re-stealth shenanigans as above. If you see someone pop the Lantern, you just stop attacking and back up a few feet to wait out the six seconds of Lantern. It's not at all effective as a counter.
5. Many AoEs are worthless in PvP, many AoEs require a target, AND your dagger range is longer than the range of many AoEs. I know this for certain, because I've had invisible rogues continue to throw daggers at me after casting Icy Terrain. So, again, it goes back to guessing at your location while being smacked with 4k-8k daggers the whole time. ON TOP OF THAT, every time you are pulled out of stealth, you all just run away to re-stealth (ITC as needed).

silktrocity said:
If we melee you from stealth, you can see us.. you can hit us, and you can pull us out.

Irrelevant - you perma-stealthers all avoid melee as much as possible. You throw daggers from range while staying invisible the entire time.

silktrocity said:
We are not nearly as OP as we use to be because of the significant HP increase.

Yes, you are. It just takes a few more seconds to make your kill. Maybe you have to dodge/ITC/re-stealth a couple times per kill.

silktrocity said:
PLUS our BiS PVP gear actually hurts our DPS by thousands of damage stats...

Irrelevant - you still dish out plenty of damage for easy PvP kills. Plus, every class sacrifices damage stats for tenacity on the PvP armor, so even mentioning this was just stupid.

finalfantasyac7 · October 2015

perma-stun HR
Perma-stealth TR
Unkilleble DC
Unkillable OP
Overpowered CW
Overpowered SW
Overpower GWF/GF

Kinda funny tho lol.

nickinight · October 2015

finalfantasyac7 said:
perma-stun HR
Perma-stealth TR
Unkilleble DC
Unkillable OP
Overpowered CW
Overpowered SW
Overpower GWF/GF

Kinda funny tho lol.

Seems we're all in a bit of a pickle here.

silktrocity · October 2015

anagramofevil said:

silktrocity said:
Ha. Maybe you should build a rogue before insinuating such nonsense..

1. To be "perma" we make a very real decision and choose a path that does significantly LESS damage.
2. To be good in PVP we literally only use 1 damage encounter and its merely a control. (smoke)
3. You can SEE US if we are close enough to you (pay attention.)
4. Lantern...
5. AoE's and other things that do hit us (we can be hit in stealth...) will PULL US OUT OF STEALTH.
You're the one spewing nonsense - you're just making BS excuses because you don't want your overpowered build to be changed. Perma-stealth is ridiculous - it should NOT be possible to continuously attack while staying invisible. Attacking in PvP SHOULD always pull you out of stealth.

On your specific points:

1. Irrelevant - you are still fully capable of dishing out enough damage in PvP to make easy kills (1v1 or otherwise).
2. Irrelevant - you stay invisible and throw daggers from range until your opponent is dead.
3. See above - your thrown daggers are far enough that you stay invisible. Your opponent has to guess at your location while taking damage the entire time. When we find you, you just run away and the process repeats. If we actually catch you with a stun, you ITC and again run away to re-stealth.
4. The Lantern lets us see you for only six seconds, the range is tiny (10 ft - your dagger range is longer), and is at best once every 60 seconds. Once found, you do the same ITC / running / re-stealth shenanigans as above. If you see someone pop the Lantern, you just stop attacking and back up a few feet to wait out the six seconds of Lantern. It's not at all effective as a counter.
5. Many AoEs are worthless in PvP, many AoEs require a target, AND your dagger range is longer than the range of many AoEs. I know this for certain, because I've had invisible rogues continue to throw daggers at me after casting Icy Terrain. So, again, it goes back to guessing at your location while being smacked with 4k-8k daggers the whole time. ON TOP OF THAT, every time you are pulled out of stealth, you all just run away to re-stealth (ITC as needed).
silktrocity said:
If we melee you from stealth, you can see us.. you can hit us, and you can pull us out.
Irrelevant - you perma-stealthers all avoid melee as much as possible. You throw daggers from range while staying invisible the entire time.
silktrocity said:
We are not nearly as OP as we use to be because of the significant HP increase.
Yes, you are. It just takes a few more seconds to make your kill. Maybe you have to dodge/ITC/re-stealth a couple times per kill.
silktrocity said:
PLUS our BiS PVP gear actually hurts our DPS by thousands of damage stats...
Irrelevant - you still dish out plenty of damage for easy PvP kills. Plus, every class sacrifices damage stats for tenacity on the PvP armor, so even mentioning this was just stupid.

As I've mentioned before, maybe try playing the class before making assumptions.
It seems as if your only real issue here is the throwing knives.. Since you clearly don't understand how those work with out stealth mechanic, let me enlighten you. While throwing knives from stealth, we are only able to get off 4 before our stealth depletes fully. IF we choose to use all 4 we forfit our stealth encounter bonus..

I can think of a lot worse things in PVP then a rogue that specifically chooses to stand back and throw knives all day (which isn't effective against better geared players).. I think THOSE types of players don't understand the true potential of the build and therefore you should be glad that they honestly think throwing knives offer the most DPS.. It could be much worse.

deathbringer · October 2015

All of this trash talk back and forth. It all comes down to:
1.) No class should be able to STAY invisible(which TR's can't STAY invisible, despite the name perma-stealth)
2.) Even when Invis you can still SEE the TR. If you can't, open your eyes.
3.) MORE Importantly at this point is the OP HR's, They should not be able to perma-stun anyone either
4.) All in all, neither of those things will affect, or at least kill you, IF you know the counters AND how to play your class to dodge them or keep them at bay.

In general, everyone should stop crying over something that is put in the game. It's in there, and there is no sign of it changing soon. If you choose to cry, maybe you should not be playing PvP.

Unknown · October 2015

This content has been removed.

finalfantasyac7 · October 2015

virtueofcyanide said:
The only issue I have with permastealth rogues is they seem to dodge both icy terrain and ice storm. The only real issue I have with rogues in general is having most of my attacks dodged.

Tr's and Hr's has Dex as primary attribute which is deflection chance, aoe resist + something else. Both class with high dex can dodge 99% of any attack when rolling/shifting away.

Unknown · October 2015

This content has been removed.

armadeonx · October 2015

TR's are not as OP as they were and the less geared ones can no longer hold nodes or even 1v1 against someone with good stats. Good ones will always get you if you're not equal/better, but that's how it should be for any class.

HR permastun is simply unfair but so is perma-anything. try perma-bubble OP, perma-shield CW, perma-exaltation DC etc

The rule the devs are not getting here is 'perma-anything is bad'.

anagramofevil · October 2015

silktrocity said:
As I've mentioned before, maybe try playing the class before making assumptions.
It seems as if your only real issue here is the throwing knives.. Since you clearly don't understand how those work with out stealth mechanic, let me enlighten you. While throwing knives from stealth, we are only able to get off 4 before our stealth depletes fully. IF we choose to use all 4 we forfit our stealth encounter bonus..

I can think of a lot worse things in PVP then a rogue that specifically chooses to stand back and throw knives all day (which isn't effective against better geared players).. I think THOSE types of players don't understand the true potential of the build and therefore you should be glad that they honestly think throwing knives offer the most DPS.. It could be much worse.

IDGAF if you lose your stealth bonus after the fourth dagger, or have to slot encounters specifically for stealth, or bad TRs use only daggers, or you have to time your rotation, or whatever other excuse you want to throw out. The net effect is that you can stay invisible for an entire fight, until your opponent is dead, no matter how long it takes.

I'm 2.6k item level - full Burning PvP armor, perfect negation, perfect vorpal, Lostmauth set, everything at least epic, two legendary artifacts. I've had perma-stealth TRs with roughly equal gear whittle me down while staying invisible the entire time. I don't know exactly how they did it, but it happens. The damage piles up too fast to effectively retaliate while trying to find their location. Cause once you find them, it's ITC, run, re-stealth, rinse, repeat.

Rogues shouldn't be capable of staying invisible while actively attacking in PvP.

As others have said, "perma-anything" is stupid in PvP.

deathbringer · October 2015

Once again, an invisible TR can still be seen. So if you actually open your eyes, you would be able to see them

meliboo · October 2015

As an HR, only an HR, I can say that perma anything is dumb. But I have also killed many, and I mean MANY, "invis" TR's.

armadeonx · October 2015

Yep the only classes that can deal with a good geared stealthed dagger chucking TR are HR, OP, DC and another TR.

The HR and TR can kill them and OP/DC should be able to sufficiently defend themselves. The other classes are almost guaranteed to die.

My CW came up against a good one (from Asylum) in GG and whilst he took a couple of minutes, his weapon enchantment tripled the damage I was taking until I was dead.

I did see him a few times but only for a couple of seconds - I got a few shots off but ofc he had CC immunity during that time so very little effect before he disappeared again.

I respect the fact this guy knew his class well and was fully specced but I too am of the opinion that a single dagger throw should bring a TR out of stealth. An OP cannot use their shield plus any other skill, an HR cannot use 3 shots from stealth and a CW's shield takes 6 seconds without being hit to regenerate - to my mind a TR should have a similar limitation.

I agree TR's are not nearly as OP as they were and a lot cannot successfully pull off this type of attack - I also agree that the current serious OP'ness is with the HR and that should take priority over any TR tinkering.

Perma-Stealth Rogue...?

Comments