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Epic Temple of the Spider advice
pointsman
Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
Hi all,
Any advice for tactics on the final boss of this dungeon, both in general and from the CW's point of view?
Should the entire party follow the boss around and let the adds come to the party and kill the adds then, or should the party split up and some kill the adds where they spawn and the rest focus on boss?
What are the benefits to taking a Paladin tank vs. a GF tank? Or a Paladin healer vs. a DC healer?
What is a good strategy when you have players who have good DPS, but not super-awesome DPS, so that the fight ends up taking a rather long time? So instead of trying for a quick victory, you have to whittle down Syndrith very very slowly. What is the best strategy in this case?
There have been instances where my CW has been the top in paingiver by time we got to the final boss, and I have never beaten the dungeon in these cases. My hunch is that it is because this dungeon requires a very strong melee fighter to focus down the boss. Is this correct that this is a *requirement*? If not, then what should my CW do in this case if the CW is the top damage dealer?
Thanks in advance.
Any advice for tactics on the final boss of this dungeon, both in general and from the CW's point of view?
Should the entire party follow the boss around and let the adds come to the party and kill the adds then, or should the party split up and some kill the adds where they spawn and the rest focus on boss?
What are the benefits to taking a Paladin tank vs. a GF tank? Or a Paladin healer vs. a DC healer?
What is a good strategy when you have players who have good DPS, but not super-awesome DPS, so that the fight ends up taking a rather long time? So instead of trying for a quick victory, you have to whittle down Syndrith very very slowly. What is the best strategy in this case?
There have been instances where my CW has been the top in paingiver by time we got to the final boss, and I have never beaten the dungeon in these cases. My hunch is that it is because this dungeon requires a very strong melee fighter to focus down the boss. Is this correct that this is a *requirement*? If not, then what should my CW do in this case if the CW is the top damage dealer?
Thanks in advance.
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Comments
When I run etos on my CW, I tend to stick to the right side (green laser side) and deal with the spider and blademaster - allowing the other cc to handle the other side, but this of course depends who I'm running with - key here is communication. Since the healing is usually focused on the tank and dps, there will be times you'll want to follow the group. Know when you need to stick close to your healer and when you have the capabilities to solo it on the other side of the arena.
If you are topping the dps chart by the end of the dungeon, then I'd say the person in the dps role is either built wrong (incorrect enchants, feats, gear, etc) or is not playing their class correctly. As I said before, people need to know their roles and be able ti fulfil them. Now if your CW is topping the paingiver chat BEFORE the Syndreth fight, that is still fine - unless it's a sizable gap.
Strategy for long drawn out fight? Keep moving and communicate. It should never need to be said, but avoid the red - being trapped in a web when you need to move is a nightmare. I had a run once that took 40 mins in the boss fight, my hand was ready to fall off afterwards, but it was done without a wipe - just need to juggle controlling and taking out the adds before they heal Syndreth.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/comment/4409596
— (The unwritten rule)
How does it look? Your damage resistance is gradually lowered the longer the fight lasts - this is probably caused by bugged Armor Penetration epic dungeons mobs have - it causes permanent decrease in your defense, reset only by death (soulforge proc counts as death too). The defense reduction doesnt stop at 0% damage reduction, but goes beyond that, up to -100% damage reduction - which causes you to take double damage from attacks, instead of having them lowered. For example my Tank OP without Sanctuary and freshly after Damage Resistance reset is hit for ~90-100k with Syndrith's Sweep. With fully bugged defense, which usually happens every 2-3 minutes, the same hit strikes me for ~450k dmg, resulting in instant death if Im not under Divine Protector - probably even Sanctuary wont save me from that, especially that it bugs randomly too and doesnt work. The thing is - even if Im not bugged anymore and I cast Divine Protector - my bugged teamate will redirect me damage, that is triple as high as it should be. Not to mention that well geared DPS/Healer has some survivability that, with party protection, should allow him to survive 2-3 mobs hits, but with the bug - he is 1 shot by spitter. Understanding that you have to prepare mechanics that will minimize the chance of wiping coming from random 1 shots is essential for successful T2 final boss fight
Any combo can of Tank + healer can do fairly well, here are some strong/weak points, considering mediocre gear, so no perma dailies coming just from recovery/mythic dc artifacts (this is my opinion only):
Note that by daily I understand: Tank OP - Divine Protector(DP), Heal OP - Shield of Justice(SoJ), DC - Anointed Army(AA) (sorry Oracles, but with the DR bug Hallowed Ground is inferior to me), GF - Fighters Recovery (FR)
OP Tank + OP Heal:
+Very strong party heals
+Very good party survivability when both dailies are running
-Bad party protection when no dailies are running. You can split dailies, and save SoJ for situations where things go rough and DP is unavailable
-Bad party Damage/Utility buffs compared to other Tank + heal combos. There are 2 excellent OP Auras and all other are at most mediocre - 1 OP is enough.
-Mediocre anti-DR bug mechianics
Overall: Mediocre. This combo effectiveness goes up a lot when you can keep both dailies (almost) always up, but until then I wouldnt recommend it.
OP Tank + DC Heal:
+Perma DP even with mediocre gear
+Good party Damage/Utility buffs
+Good anti-DR bug mechanics
+Excellent party survivability
-Mediocre party protection when no dailies are running - still better than 2xOP and dailies uptime is highest, but random deaths can cancel perma daily
-This combo probably has worst healing out of 4
Overall: The best survivability combo which is key for long fights. AA is amazing anti-DR bug skill - let your tank prepare for death and right after its resurrected cast AA. Its also the best skill for total random deaths when Tank isnt prepared for random 1 shot. Permanent DP gives your DPS immortality, which comes at certain cost - without dying they dont reset their defense and start to redirect very, very high damage. I would recommend this combo for beginners.
GF Tank + DC Heal:
+Perma Dailies even with mediocre gear
+Good party Damage/Utility buffs
+Good anti-DR bug mechanics
-Bad party survivability if positioning is bad
-Bad tank survivability if flanked
Overall: This combo relies more on offense - Into the fray allows for quick rotation between spitters and quick bursts, especially for melees, and perma dailies bring more control to your CW. AA plays a big role here - helps not only GF to recover from DR bug death, but party members will die randomly too. It is important for GF to position himself somewhere where he cant be flanked - I have 2 places in my mind, but since Im not GF I would prefer somebody else to explain that. This combo isnt as good as OP + DC and if party doesnt realise how to use their skills to combat DR bug will fail, but if they do - its seconds best combo.
GF Tank + OP Heal:
+Excellent party damage/utility buffs
+Excellent heals
+Good survivability when SoJ is running
-Poor anti-DR bug mechanics
-Mediocre party survivability without SoJ
-Bad Tank and party survivability if positioning is bad (flanked tank)
Overall: This combo has the strongest offensive buffs for party and strongest heals (FR + OP healing mechanics), at a cost of survivability coming from defense. Random 1 shot deaths can cause wipe, since OP can easily die if GF dies and even if he doesnt die he will have enough trouble that bringing resurrected GF to full HP can be problematic. This combo is very effective for advanced parties, because of DPS it provides, and perma SoJ becomes great protection, but I wouldnt recommend it for beginners.
Thats all from me for now, since its already wall of text.
I only do eToS with full guild run so we have an understanding when it comes to the adds. Generally myself (HR) and CW will take care of the spitting spiders on each side, sometimes double-teaming, sometimes taking them down one each. Blademasters aren't the PITA they were prior to Mod 6 so we generally deal with them last, if at all.
From what I have experienced an OP tank is better to have than GF due to the bubble. OP can tank Syndreth and eat up the red beam without turning away from the boss, whereas GF has to turn to face the danger with shield. However, KV can be useful too.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
— (The unwritten rule)
If the group is Uber well geared:
You can drop the tank, take a righteous dc and 4 dps.
If the group is well geared, but not uber well geared:
Take ether a gf or a tank OP and a righteous dc, or 2 heal OP's instead of either. the type of dps doesn't matter.
If the group is Ok geared:
A good tank and faithful dc, or a really good righteous dc, or 2 heal OP's. The type of dps doesn't matter if they are good.
If the group is 2k:
An excellent GF/OP tank, an insane righteous dc who uses high prophet set or a faithful dc, or a heal OP. The type of dps does matter, ideally you want 1 controller (hr, cw) 1 striker (gwf, tr, sw) and 1 support dps (cw, tr, hr). Alternatively for dps, the support slot can instead be filled with a righteous dc if you don't already have one, a heal OP if you have a righteous dc or a heal op, or an additional tank. Ideally, you do not want your controller slot to overlap with your support slot, so no double stacking of a dps class.
Things that help:
Running debuff enchantments like plaguefire and terror, bear in mind, the different ranks of plaguefire apply different debuffs, so you can benefit from 4 different people running plaguefire on the condition that the ranks are different.
The DC using high prophet as well as other debuffs like divine glow.
Having a MoF ren as the support dps. You then gain the ren buffs, the smolder mechanic and ray of enfeeblement.
Having a HR as controller and using things like fox, the dodges prevent wipes.
For striker:
In a low geared group I recommend tr or SW over gwf, because a low geared gwf, unless really good, tends to die a lot up front.
Strategy:
In a uber geared group or a well geared group.
Burn the boss. Let the adds come to you and kill them with AoE.
In an Average geared group:
Kill the adds as they spawn and try to keep the bladesmasters off the tank. If you got a good group, you can try burning the boss.
In a 2k group:
Kill the spiderlings as they spawn, try to control the blademesters and kill them in a war of attrition. If there is a blademaster but no spiders, attack the boss and the only damage that gos to the blademasters should be splash damage. When the spiderlings aren't around, burn the boss as much as possible. It is important to note that there ard 2 kinds of spiderlings, the ranged and the melee ones. When the melee ones spawn, you only want to fight them in melee range if they are controlled. A CW or HR should control them then the striker should hop off boss and kill them. Do not get caught in the bosses webbing and watch out for the mace swing. When the boss phases, do not stand too close or the phasing will kill you. Have 1 person, preferably the dc, intercept the healing laser and the tank can intercept the other. Bear in mind, any class with a dodge mechanic that wants to protect the tank can dodge into the red laser at the last minute and intercept the damage, but because of the dodge immunity frames they will take no damage. Try to keep the boss in the centre of the map and use daily powers intelligently. This is especially true for CW's who I often see wasting them at the wrong moment for an extra bit of dps rather then a crucial moment of control.
Comparing OP tank to GF:
An excellent OP tank is just that, OP. They can prevent the party from ever taking damage, however, in a 2k group, I suspect a GF is better due to ITF.
Comparing OP heal to DC:
In terms of DR buffs, damage dealt and healing, the OP healer takes the cake. This is because of shield of faith which is an unmitigatable layer of dr. A DC however, is better in the department of damage buffs and AP gain. At the end of the day, In a group of good players I would want a dc and in a group of weak players I would want an OP.
About your CW:
When it comes to your CW, it honestly depends on your gear and your spec. Remember, CW is either a controller, a dps, or a support. If you are playing your CW as a dps, then gear matters, a lot. In this case, you will probably be a SS ren/SS thaum. If you are either of these, having a CW roughly 2.6k or better (obviously with optimised stats, so 2.6k does not equal 2.2k+400 in reinforcement kits) is what I feel is required to JUSTIFY playing as a dps, because your dps scales off your gear. If you are lower then this and you are dealing the most damage, your group will probably not finish the dungeon. With that being said, if you are the primary dps, I would then focus on the boss as if you were the striker and have the other players manage the adds. However, if you are lower then 2.6k, I would honestly recommend respeccing to MoF ren. This is because more often then not, you will not be contributing the majority of the damage as SS ren and the damage buffs from smolder to other players will increase the parties damage over all more then your extra damage will. Say swapping over decreases your dps by 33%, but increases everyone elses dps by 15%, well, just that 1 gwf in the party increased by 15% is probably more then your 33%.
It took me alot of tries before i could tank it comfortably, and even then if there is a mis-timed daily/encounter, its insta gib for me.
OP has a huge advantage of being able to tank in all directions and use abilities without risk of going splat. So get one if you can, and they don't even need to be that well geared.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Doing so allows the dps and healers to concentrate on watching adds and dps'ing the boss.
But as others have suggested, OP+DC is pretty much easy mode for the last boss.