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Gameplay and contraddictory changes in gameplay mechanics
pando83
Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
I wanted to discuss in general how, since module 3, gameplay has changed and which direction the devs seemed to take and why i think their choices were full of contraddictions.
After module 3 and at the beginning of module 4, we got changes to some classes that were aimed at decreasing passive survivability and passive damage sources, and increase what the devs called "proactive gameplay". They also tried to reduce CC in PvP and make all powers pass through the enemy defenses (DR, deflection, exc...)
At the same time, however, other classes got a rework, and many other changes afterwards, that in fact went in the opposite direction, increasing passive defenses, adding passive damage sources from feats, and huge ones in some cases, and then also making some powers and builds cut right through not just all defenses, but tenacity as well, that is supposed to be a PvP mechanic affecting everything.
Now, i think the devs should make it clear which direction they want to take.
If they want to increase proactive gameplay then they need to rework a lot of things cause right now only few classes need to aim and time their powers to deal damage, and deal with dodging mechanics. Many powers have auto aim, or passive damage sources from feats, and so on.
Also, it should be made clear if all powers need to pass through the enemy defenses or if some powers are "special" and can ignore everything another class can use to defend from the attack.
Also, it should be made clear, i think, if neverwinter combat is going to be a skill-based combat or a passive kind of gameplay where you build your toon and then have the build basically playing for you, with very low work to do to make it effective (huge damage sources which are also very easy to land/ can be used effectively with minimal effort).
Must also explain if powers and mechanics must be something to be used with some strategy or if, like some powers/ abilities, they can just be spammed like crazy and be available very fast to the user, even when they are very powerful like immunities, full dodges or powerful DPS powers.
After we know that, we can provide feedback and tell them how to change the classes. I don't want to give suggestions that are unwanted. Let's say i propose changes that make classes more proactive, and the devs instead want to keep the trend of making gameplay very passive and "cheesy". I would waste my time.
Make it clear please. So far we got words saying the changes they wanted to make were to make gameplay more fair and proactive, then we got, for 3 full modules now, the introduction of very passive and unfair mechanics.
After module 3 and at the beginning of module 4, we got changes to some classes that were aimed at decreasing passive survivability and passive damage sources, and increase what the devs called "proactive gameplay". They also tried to reduce CC in PvP and make all powers pass through the enemy defenses (DR, deflection, exc...)
At the same time, however, other classes got a rework, and many other changes afterwards, that in fact went in the opposite direction, increasing passive defenses, adding passive damage sources from feats, and huge ones in some cases, and then also making some powers and builds cut right through not just all defenses, but tenacity as well, that is supposed to be a PvP mechanic affecting everything.
Now, i think the devs should make it clear which direction they want to take.
If they want to increase proactive gameplay then they need to rework a lot of things cause right now only few classes need to aim and time their powers to deal damage, and deal with dodging mechanics. Many powers have auto aim, or passive damage sources from feats, and so on.
Also, it should be made clear if all powers need to pass through the enemy defenses or if some powers are "special" and can ignore everything another class can use to defend from the attack.
Also, it should be made clear, i think, if neverwinter combat is going to be a skill-based combat or a passive kind of gameplay where you build your toon and then have the build basically playing for you, with very low work to do to make it effective (huge damage sources which are also very easy to land/ can be used effectively with minimal effort).
Must also explain if powers and mechanics must be something to be used with some strategy or if, like some powers/ abilities, they can just be spammed like crazy and be available very fast to the user, even when they are very powerful like immunities, full dodges or powerful DPS powers.
After we know that, we can provide feedback and tell them how to change the classes. I don't want to give suggestions that are unwanted. Let's say i propose changes that make classes more proactive, and the devs instead want to keep the trend of making gameplay very passive and "cheesy". I would waste my time.
Make it clear please. So far we got words saying the changes they wanted to make were to make gameplay more fair and proactive, then we got, for 3 full modules now, the introduction of very passive and unfair mechanics.
Post edited by pando83 on
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Comments
2) wheel of the element got ninja fixed.
As i wrote in OP, the questions are all pretty much about the reason of some contraddictory choices.
Pretty much, i used GWF as example cause that was the turning point: at the start of module 4 a series of changes to previous "overperforming" classes were made with clear explanation that it was to make gameplay more proactive or to make certain powers respect defensive stats and mechanics.
Then they introduced stuff that ignores flat out either defensive or offensive stats, huge damage procs from passive stuff, spammable tools, and so on.
They basically went in the exact opposite direction compared to the changes they made to GWF class at the beginning of module 4.
The question is WHY.
Why nerf deep gash and later introduce current storm spell or lostamauth set.
Why nerf unstoppable DR and then introduce super-powerful passive shield on tab instead of buffing proactive defense.
Why nerf prones in order to make IBS respect defensive stats, then inroduce, and keep, stuff like current shocking execution on SWs and GWFs (undodgeable, piercing monster daily).
Why introduce tenacity and then introduce stuff that ignores it 100%.
Good luck against BiS GF and TR.
Believe me people bitched about Clerics and Rogues in PvP; they complained about Hunters pets being too strong... you name it they complained.
But they NEVER destroyed a class by nerfing it 33%.
I mean why for examplenerf deep gash and move damage to stacks proactive system, then taking away damage from shard and put it on storm spell.
Just wanted a reason...
Like the most complicated rotation is HR, fine does anyone seriously think its on the same level as mastering combos in a fighting game along the lines of street fighter, let alone knowing how to counter them? Not even remotely.
I won't even bother making comparisons about the level of communication/teamwork required in other games.
As for the devs and their decisions. Well its a rollercoaster isn't it? I've given up on expecting consistency let alone a big picture of how they think things should be.
Its a minor nitpick wasn't mod 4 the birth of the intimidation gwf and mod 3 was well roar spam but more active use anyway?
The CW issue is an issue...
Stop bashing ONE SPECIFIC CLASS. Please know what you are talking about before speaking. There are VERY few perma-stealth TRs left in the game. Most of them grew tired of the simplicity of the play... so they wanted more of a challenge. Yes, that means there is some honor among thieves. The perma-stealth HAMSTER are more in PvP guilds or very new to end game. You cannot PvE with a perma built TR.
You are highlighting 2 feats that are specific to ONE build. Impossible to Catch, ITC, needs a nerf. The Perma BS needs a nerf... and that comes from a TR.
TR's do NOT have unlimited dodges. We have 3... and then a wait for stamina recovery. Sometimes it can seem faster than normal... due to a specific amount of boosted recovery... but it is not unlimited.
Deep Gash - Nerfed to dirt because it was a monster passive class ability.
SpellStorm - Buffed to monster class ability status because CW encounter damage was nerfed to dirt.
Get rid of one because its wrong and replace it with another.
Tene Enchants (early ones prenerf) - Nerfed to dirt because damage that bypassed all defense was grossly overpowered.
Piercing - Add back damage that bypasses all defense, and make it a monster .
Multiple nerfs because classes were becoming unkillable in PVP (healing/regen/feats/unstoppable [in its prime] nerfs).
Now there are 3 classes that can build to be near unkillable (negation needs to be looked at before classes), and massive amounts of healing.
Side Note: In it's prime Deep Gash was more powerful than SpellStorm. Deep Gash could be 40% - 60% of overall GWF dps in CN runs, and it was a battle between GWFs and CWs to see who could get paingiver - made CN a lot more fun after way too many runs.
You might not get many answers, because the OP doesn't read like it. It feels too much like hiding GWF QQ and nerf other classes please behind a gameplay discussion.
Also addressing devs is not allowed here.
I think you can extend the topic to other areas as well. The devs/management keep making the same mistakes. Latest example is the Bonus Companion Promotion, where they simply put wrong information in the blog post about the rewards. Repeating past mistakes happens way too often around here.
I, for one, recognize the differences he is stressing. Though I would also note that the Dev Team went through some changes in March/April with Mod 6 and we are still sorting through how those changes will be impacting the future of the game.
Either way, knowing which way the Devs want to go would be helpful to provide feedback that is genuinely examining what they want the game to be. Though, our input in how we want the game to be is important also...