End Game Difficulty is insane! (also: Where did all the GFs go?!)

arandompanda

I finally got to level 70 today. My main is a DC. My favorite tree is the dps tree (Righteous) but the end game difficulty is so punishing I re-spec'd to Virtuous mainly because it grants a wee bit more dps (at the cost of survivability) than Faithful even though Faithful is the DC's tank tree (the game just isn't much fun for me playing with a tank class). I have been playing this game non-stop since Mod 6 was introduced to get to the new level cap. If I stuck to the new leveling boards I could still play as a dps cleric (my absolute fave).

The end game difficulty for level capped characters in end-game greens and blues is insane. And if I swap out a blue chestplate for an older epic one I lose the overload slot that has my Soulforged enchant.


It *might* not be so bad going this route except for one thing. I have never seen a game's customers/players abandon a class en mass so fast as I've seen the GF class abandoned. I've played for hours every day and I have been in PUGs with GFs maybe less than 20 times. They are rare enough now I don't even see them on the leveling boards as I was making my rounds. I thought at first this must mean a bunch got to level 70 prior to me and once I got to 70 I'd see them again. But nope. GF is just as rare as ever.

Have the majority of GF players abandoned the class for the Paladin or have they just quit the game altogether? I struggle to make PUG runs work because it's a group of all-squishies and even with a 100% heal and protection load out (examples: Astral Seal, Astral Shield, Healing Word (to give everyone Regen in combat again like pre-mod 6 days), Divine Glow, Fortitude, Healers Lore or Light of Divinity) we are all getting one-shot to death.

The handful of times I've managed (to my shock) to get a PUG with a GF (haven't been in an epic dungeon with a Paladin yet so can't say anything about them) the fights go much easier. Much less one-shots going on. And I make sure I keep the GF "topped-off" with a full hp bar.


I can understand wanting to make the game challenging again but the sheer quantity of times the groups I'm in get one-shot to death just robs the game of enjoyment.

cyence

As a GF that pugs most of the time, I keep loading into terrible groups with healers trying to dps or healers just not used to healing. Also, some of the content one shots me through shield. It is humiliating as a tank to die so easily. I am protection specced as much as I can 114k hp but it is just not enough. I may as well go back to being conq tree and just try to dps rather than hold agro. Companions keep steeling agro and do a better job tanking than my 2.6k gf with full boons...

That and it is not like there are a lot of people who main a GF anyway. Mods of neglect mean very few main a GF.

diogene0

arandompanda wrote: »

I re-spec'd to Virtuous mainly because it grants a wee bit more dps (at the cost of survivability) than Faithful even though Faithful is the DC's tank tree (the game just isn't much fun for me playing with a tank class).

So obviously you don't understand what the cleric class is about... Righteous is for buffs/dots, faithful is for burst healing, virtuous is for healing over time, which is a bit more powerful than burst healing but also requires a lot more skills - something you may not have since you're completely wrong about the different roles of the cleric capstones.

So before complaining about the endgame difficulty:
- learn more about your class
- open your character sheet and the feats page, read the tooltips carefully. Do the same thing with spells.
- buy blue gear on the auction house, having greens at lvl 70 is not acceptable if you care about your character and playing the game properly. It's very cheap anyway.
- you need gear with extra hitpoints because npcs hit harder. Salvage the old epics, a soulforge is far less important than a hitpoint buffer.

If you don't do that of course it's going to be a struggle. It's like playing chess, you don't learn by trial and error (you may try but you'd need hundreds of years to try everything by yourself) but by learning the classics first. So, learn more about the game and your class.

If you don't see many GFs, it's because the content has been so easy for so long that everyone rolled a wizard instead. Give it time, at some point, people will realize that they have to clean the dust on that old GF character they used to play before the game became so easy that people who didn't want to learn to play by the rules could still roll their asses on the keyboard and win.

cyence wrote: »

As a GF that pugs most of the time, I keep loading into terrible groups with healers trying to dps or healers just not used to healing. Also, some of the content one shots me through shield. It is humiliating as a tank to die so easily. I am protection specced as much as I can 114k hp but it is just not enough. I may as well go back to being conq tree and just try to dps rather than hold agro. Companions keep steeling agro and do a better job tanking than my 2.6k gf with full boons...

That and it is not like there are a lot of people who main a GF anyway. Mods of neglect mean very few main a GF.

That's the cleric's fault. He could almost double your effective hitpoints using astral shield and a couple of feats. That requires little efforts but terrible healers in public queues are the plague of MMOs in general.

almondum

I disagree with the OP.

This Mod's difficulty is just fine, it's exactly what we wanted, to incentive the teamplay and persistance.
Do not make the game easier, thanks.

Almondum.

jharlis

almondum wrote: »

I disagree with the OP.

This Mod's difficulty is just fine, it's exactly what we wanted, to incentive the teamplay and persistance.
Do not make the game easier, thanks.

Almondum.

Please post the videos of your teams winning easily cc/gwd/tos.

ghoulz66

almondum wrote: »

This Mod's difficulty is just fine, it's exactly what we wanted

It's what YOU and a very few others wanted, not 90% of the population.

instynctive

One of my biggest pet peeves that I see is "DPS Cleric".

Clerics are healers. Yes, they have capability for massive damage, but healing/buffing/debuffing should always ALWAYS come first. That is the cleric's job. If you want DPS, go make a DPS character.

suicidalgodot

Forget about the 3000$.

But those who aren't in the game since several months are royally screwed. Oldtimers, who are playing since times when coal wards were abundant and prices for dungeon regular T1 or T2 drops had 5 or sometimes 6 digits ofc have just the right difficulty...

It's like in real life, there's haves, and have-nots. Just instead of the 1% it might be the 5% or maybe the 10% of the population here...

methecsgod

The difficulty is fine. The more you talk about it, you more you give new players the idea that something is wrong (when it isn't).

mjytresz

methecsgod wrote: »

The difficulty is fine. The more you talk about it, you more you give new players the idea that something is wrong (when it isn't).

This game is 100% balanced.

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flambridge

Dirturb me this tendency of people not to join party.
Most are still underestimating content and not worrying try excursions (the right to do).
I do not see "LFG" in Sharandar, Dread Ring and Icewind Dale.

In my opinion, this complicates game for everyone.
Not just epic dungeons need to party, now. Who does not learn this, will being beaten lot.

daaly

GF's are out there still we aint dead yet but we are alot fewer atm...and I would have to disagree about the mod being 100% balanced unless your a high dps class who doesnt have to try and tank/kite some of the trash with one shot ability let alone the bose fights which negate many options tanks have....

thestaggy

GFs are few and far between because Mods 1 through 3 screwed us. We were nerfed in to oblivion and the massive DPS race ensured we were left in the dust. I had to roll a GWF and/or revert back to my DC to get in to dungeons. Then came Mod 4 and we were viable again, and then nerfed again.

So you have a small population that is probably too scared to show its hand and help others build effective tanks - I don't know when last I saw an up-to-date build in the class forum - as the minute the GF is good at something a squishy DPS class throws a fit and we are hit with the nerfhammer.

overdriver13

OP, have you been much in pvp? There is a place in pvp for a dps cleric and there is no shortage of GF's in pvp either. I think where a lot of the GF's have gone is to OBP, some to pvp (seems like there is at least always 2 in a party), and some are with the exodus of players leaving NWO. The three best GF's I know personally are still level 60-69. They will all catch up. Seems like many were on fire to get to level 70, and for some reason it seems like less GF's are in that mix.

overdriver13

thestaggy wrote: »

GFs are few and far between because Mods 1 through 3 screwed us. We were nerfed in to oblivion and the massive DPS race ensured we were left in the dust. I had to roll a GWF and/or revert back to my DC to get in to dungeons. Then came Mod 4 and we were viable again, and then nerfed again.

So you have a small population that is probably too scared to show its hand and help others build effective tanks - I don't know when last I saw an up-to-date build in the class forum - as the minute the GF is good at something a squishy DPS class throws a fit and we are hit with the nerfhammer.

Of CW, SW, TR, HR, GWF and GF, GF is by far my favorite at this point. I am probably one of many who start reaching for that credit card and then not going through with it to make the commitment in time or money, out of fear we will get crushed again. So on to pvp and farming the heck out of glory till at least the 23rd when we have some indication of what direction things are going.

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phoenix1021

It is only "easy" for people that have all their boons already, pre-farmed their pvp/eternal sets and/or using exploits. Everyone else struggles.
There was a place for group content (skrimish/dungeons) and a place for solo content (campaigns). You can't seriously suggest that everyone who is not overgeared should go in groups everywhere now.

thestaggy

jimmyhar wrote: »

that's because it has always, always, *always* been a game you can play solo except for the dungeons, epics hes and stuff like that.
many of the players are only playing it because it can be played solo. those players are not suddenly going to group for everything. they will just go elsewhere. the group thing is just not for everyone.

+1. It is the reason why this is the only MMO I play.

I am one of those players that prefers to do daily content by himself. I can do things as quickly or as slowly as I like and I also get all the loot I come across - skill nodes, drops, etc. I hate the fact that I may be forced to group up to complete dailies. And not only do I prefer to do that by myself, I also only get about an hour of game play a day and I really don't have the time to look for a group or stand around waiting for instance switching.

Luckily I have been able to reach level 68 by myself, but from what I am told, once in IWD/WOD/Sharandar/DR that is no longer possible and that sucks.

elvenanger

*sad sigh* I wanted to come back and have fun but....what's the point now? From everything I'm reading Mod 6 is just for elite players, and a casual player like me is left out in the cold.

Why bother leveling to 70?

I love the quests and story of this game (Neverwinter can be so awesome sometimes) but, I don't want to have it end in pure frustration.

ryoshinette

Now you are looking for GF's? After 2 years of ignoring them and forcing to farm FH all the time?

Call 4 CW and start farm.

sunnyx22

elvenanger wrote: »

what's the point now? From everything I'm reading Mod 6 is just for elite players, and a casual player like me is left out in the cold.

Why bother leveling to 70?

Starting to think this myself. Got to L67 and starting to ask myself what is the point ? if I cant do the dailies alone and go to epic dungeons for seals with PUGs anymore. That was the main attraction of the game for me. Something free and fun to do a couple of hours or so a day where you can unwind from real life a bit.

Now from what I understand, that cant be done anymore so basically no more incentive to level up to 70. Seriously I am starting to look on Steam for what other games I can go back to for that precious hour of unwinding casually and solo.

Maybe someone can start a thread for suggestions as to what games people can play to replace NW.

quspiv

I seen plenty of GF, especially in pvp, sometimes there's even 2-3 in match.

sasageru

GF's are rare due to the neglect they've seen each and every mod until now. They didn't have dps, pure tanks with huge def/hp pools were not needed and were generally low in demand. Theres also the fact that they levelled slower due to their lack of dps and that its s class that requires patience and the ability to think of how to protect the group, not just yourself.

I agree with the above, if you can't solo, whats the point. On my dps character i can't do dailies without a group, and thats with 75k hp and a mix of epic and blue 70 gear and epic artifacts equipped. My gf can hold her own but it takes a lot of time and strategy to avoid dying, but i noticed, though im still using lvl60 epics, if i replace them for blues with the additional hp everyone looks for, i lose alot of stats for def/deflect and power, which means sure, i get more hp, but then take more damage and deal less damage in return. Feels like a no win to me. Get hp, get into parties, die because you had to cut out some other important stats. Or keep the important stats and have less than 75k hp which means alot of pug groups just instant kick you.

hustin1

almondum wrote: »

I disagree with the OP.

This Mod's difficulty is just fine, it's exactly what we wanted, to incentive the teamplay and persistance.
Do not make the game easier, thanks.

Almondum.

I could not disagree more. It doesn't incentivize teamplay, it wound up requiring it -- even for dailies. To me and to a lot of players, that is totally unacceptable.

I know, I know... "but you're still here." Actually, I'm not. I stopped playing three days ago. I'm in a wait-and-see mode at this point to see if the folks at Cryptic come back to their senses.

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katbozejziemi

Where have all the GFs gone, and where are all the gods~?


They're dead.

instynctive wrote: »

One of my biggest pet peeves that I see is "DPS Cleric".

Clerics are healers. Yes, they have capability for massive damage, but healing/buffing/debuffing should always ALWAYS come first. That is the cleric's job. If you want DPS, go make a DPS character.

If "clerics are healers" then they shouldn't have given them the Righteous path. I am not respeccing just because the game design is ****.

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gleichgewichtnw

Its a shame. First I played my GF on the DPS-path. Then I played my GF on the tactician-path. And now I have to play him as protector. Because on every module the role in dungeons seems to change for me. But I still get kicked from VT if I join via random queue. Still I read "burn her" and still there are plenty of DCs out there who just debuff and dont heal me. Ok, and then there is the lag/delay in activate and deactivate the guard and the not-blockable attacks that kills me. ^^


Play GF is no fun this way. I can totally unterstand, why so much GFs take another class as main.

instynctive

sasageru wrote: »

GF's are rare due to the neglect they've seen each and every mod until now.

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9129023-elemental-evil-patch-notes%3A-nw.45.20150317a.5

Guardian Fighter

• Damage Output
• Damage of powers has been increased by 20% across the board.
• Weapon damage increased across the board. Average increase of roughly 50%.
• Bull Charge: This power now grants 50% increased damage resistance for 3 seconds when activated.
• Enforced Threat: This power now activates twice as fast.
• Griffon's Wrath: Now correctly gets a 4th charge at rank 4.
• Iron Warrior: This power now grants 30% damage resistance in addition to its other effects.
• Lunging Strike: This power now grants 50% increased damage resistance for 3 seconds when activated.
• Steel Blitz: Knight's Valor should no longer cause Steel Blitz to trigger on allies.
• Villain's Menace: This power now grants 20% damage resistance in addition to its other effects.

That looks pretty sweet to me.

katbozejziemi wrote: »

If "clerics are healers" then they shouldn't have given them the Righteous path. I am not respeccing just because the game design is ****.

The Righteous Path is for your DC's survivability, not DPS. Learn your character and its role in the game. If you want DPS, get a TR or GWF.

jimmyhar wrote: »

i'm not up to speed on modern d&d rules but back in 1st/2nd edition rules clerics were blunt-weapon fighters who had a little magic. they would turn undead, bludegon non-undead and and occasionally heal someone for quite a small amount. iirc they didn't even get any healing powers until they had levelled up a bit. ok, so i'm old.

Oh, you must be thinking about an "Oathbound Paladin". *eyeroll*

ichimaruginx

instynctive wrote: »

The Righteous Path is for your DC's survivability, not DPS. Learn your character and it's role in the game. If you want DPS, get a TR or GWF.

Really? Come now DC is NOT 100% a healer. A DC can heal when party needs it. But DC CAN also DPS. If there's a healing OP or another DC in the team, why not dps? I don't see a problem there. Problem is when the team needs you to heal, you don't :P

I main a DPS DC, even tho I haven't pop myself in the new T2 dungeons, the team did fine in T1 and I would say I play my role healing well enough. Tho i would say, I play with my GF friend most of the time We used to help each other do dailies (low dps before the rework) so yeah maybe it's bc of good synergy.