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Game Balance - Current Preview Changes
dersidius
Member Posts: 452 Arc User
Alright, so before we approach the discussion on class balance (which always tends to be a emotional debate), lets get down to the very core of whats going wrong with the current proposed changes on the PTR, and what people truly feel about them.
Did you know, Lifesteal is now going to be based on RNG? Random number generator stats are typically strictly reserved for stats such as crit, but regardless, any implementation of an RNG concept into a game does multiple things to harm its balance
A) it's hard to plot for competitive gameplay (PVP) because a lucky glance becomes the deciding blow, this robs the skill element out of the game
it's completely random (or as random as a srand (time(0)) function can be)
C) It has 100% severity - So your saying if I completely outplay my oppenant, and he lands his big hit, which also happens to proc Lifesteal (lucky him) he wins now? Because he hit me once? Interesting
D) In PVE, you think people have trouble dying now? any class that can achieve 20% Lifesteal unkillable in PVE
These core reasons among other reasons is why RNG is banned if you want your game to even be considered an ESport and taken seriously. this is promoting skill-less play
Regeneration - At its core, regen is a skilless stat yes, but the issue we face ourselves with now is that all the classes now contain some form of undodgeable (another skilless implementation) or otherwise unavoidable damage that also does a large portion of your total Health Bar, Regen has since then became a must, a cushion if you will, to help blot out this unavoidable damage.
Implementing as suggested on Preview means a couple things
1) classes without self heal will be severly gimped, and will fall victim to classes that have a form of healing worked into their tree or class mechanics
2) if 1 team has a healer, and the other team does not, its pretty much Good Game
3) I understand Regen nerf is PvE based, but lets face it guys
i) People Play PvE to Gear up, the replay value of most dungeons in game is low because a true dungeon (Like Castle Never) hasn't been truly implemented since Malabog's Castle. But even with that being said, TRUE BiS Gear comes from Tiamat, Professions, and AD, PvE Gear dosent even pay well economically anymore.
ii) if Regen and other forms of healing were truly over performing in PvE, you could always remove healing depression, from PvP, make it a hidden affect, and global between PvE and PvP
These Core reasons amongst others make the Regen nerf very very unfavorable to Game balance as a whole.
=============================ECONOMICS=====================================
Alright well, I hope the economist for cryptic has thick skin because I'm about to dig in deep.
Dear New player,
Did you know? it will cost 500 Million AD for you to reach BiS from having 0 gear
500 Million AD = $5,000 USD through Gold Selling Website
500 Million AD = $10,000 USD Through Zen Purchases
(Just saying, I'd rather get a car, Lol)
Did you know? PvE obtained items are highly unused, and the most expensive one you can obtain (which never happens because its based on full server participation) is only value at around 3m?
Did you know? The only true influx of AD in this game comes from Leadership "Bots", without these bots, the game would be AD starved in a month
Did you Know? Based on Zen prices, Cryptic values 1 orange artifact at 600 Dollars if you buy all the stuff completely though them.
Did you Know? If you don't have BiS Gear, your forced to face players who do in "ELO Combat"
Did you know? Once all of this is done, Holier then thou mods will rip down all constructive feedback threads when you go to complain about poor balance on the forums (Expecting this thread to be closed on monday, which is why its a weekend Post)
But hey, Not like the Devs listen to senior player feedback anyways...
They also love ninja Nerfing And ninja buffing abilities
Still tickles me to think shocking execution was a ninja buff, that was un documented on any patch note
================================================================
Dear Current BiS Players!
Did you know!? next module will consist of 50 million ad of costs of JUST Coal wards and marks of potency, this price dosent even factor in the price of RP and materials needed to get full rank 12, BiS gear
Did you know? your current rank10's will probably be useless anyways because HP cap is going up to 100k easy, and teneborus will do 5% of current HP (affected by DR), but with the new armor pen cap, and Over abundance of armor pen on gear, DR will be 0'd out anyways, and you'll be able to stack 35% of your current HP as damage, every time your Tene's Proc .... with no regen to heal it off.
Did you know? the minute you reach level 61, any and all level 60's will forever be more powerful then you
To say the least, a lot of things need to be addressed, All, and I mean all artifacts need to be Bound on ccount
Feeding a legendary artifact to another artifact should create another legendary, but you should be forced to pay for the gmops again
Attention TR's
ITC BUG IS STILL A THING!?!? WTF, THIS BUG HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE BETA
Sorry, I let some class bias get in the way
Attention DC GF and Possibly GWF
Sure Paladin sounds nice and dandy! but as an authors opinion, its a poor choice to supplement the current classes available at the time. In fact, with the current classes Paladin has only one roll, it has to make GF or DC obselete, or it will fail, Paladin should've been implemented as a third paragon path if it was ever added to the game
So other then these Starking Negatives, there are some nice positives
Mention of New PvP content (that dosent include a dazzling open world that no one uses) is planned
With the new linear stat curves, players at level 70 should enjoy a more balanced game that isnt affected nearly as much by gear, but I could be wrong.
Finally, they're revamping all the useless armor and weapon enchants, their will finally be variety in those
Yay! new content woot!
But with all this being said, (and I do know this was sloppy post and im sure I've missed a lot of good points)
Since the Nerf of Shard of Endless avalanche (okay maybe a bit before that), this game has dwindled further and further downward in respects to rewarding challenging gameplay
With the next module RNG fest
With all the TRs with 100% crit and "LOL stealth reveal"
This "action combat" game is getting closer and closer to a click cast and melt, half of the stopping power killing people right now is undodgeable anyways
Please keep all discussion about "fix this class, fix that class" out of this, the problems of the game start at the base
I'll be releasing my State of Mod 6 PvP address for those who want to clash with me about ideologies concerning class balance
but that discussion will never happen if we can't get enough AD or players to keep the game running
Did you know, Lifesteal is now going to be based on RNG? Random number generator stats are typically strictly reserved for stats such as crit, but regardless, any implementation of an RNG concept into a game does multiple things to harm its balance
A) it's hard to plot for competitive gameplay (PVP) because a lucky glance becomes the deciding blow, this robs the skill element out of the game
it's completely random (or as random as a srand (time(0)) function can be)C) It has 100% severity - So your saying if I completely outplay my oppenant, and he lands his big hit, which also happens to proc Lifesteal (lucky him) he wins now? Because he hit me once? Interesting
D) In PVE, you think people have trouble dying now? any class that can achieve 20% Lifesteal unkillable in PVE
These core reasons among other reasons is why RNG is banned if you want your game to even be considered an ESport and taken seriously. this is promoting skill-less play
Regeneration - At its core, regen is a skilless stat yes, but the issue we face ourselves with now is that all the classes now contain some form of undodgeable (another skilless implementation) or otherwise unavoidable damage that also does a large portion of your total Health Bar, Regen has since then became a must, a cushion if you will, to help blot out this unavoidable damage.
Implementing as suggested on Preview means a couple things
1) classes without self heal will be severly gimped, and will fall victim to classes that have a form of healing worked into their tree or class mechanics
2) if 1 team has a healer, and the other team does not, its pretty much Good Game
3) I understand Regen nerf is PvE based, but lets face it guys
i) People Play PvE to Gear up, the replay value of most dungeons in game is low because a true dungeon (Like Castle Never) hasn't been truly implemented since Malabog's Castle. But even with that being said, TRUE BiS Gear comes from Tiamat, Professions, and AD, PvE Gear dosent even pay well economically anymore.
ii) if Regen and other forms of healing were truly over performing in PvE, you could always remove healing depression, from PvP, make it a hidden affect, and global between PvE and PvP
These Core reasons amongst others make the Regen nerf very very unfavorable to Game balance as a whole.
=============================ECONOMICS=====================================
Alright well, I hope the economist for cryptic has thick skin because I'm about to dig in deep.
Dear New player,
Did you know? it will cost 500 Million AD for you to reach BiS from having 0 gear
500 Million AD = $5,000 USD through Gold Selling Website
500 Million AD = $10,000 USD Through Zen Purchases
(Just saying, I'd rather get a car, Lol)
Did you know? PvE obtained items are highly unused, and the most expensive one you can obtain (which never happens because its based on full server participation) is only value at around 3m?
Did you know? The only true influx of AD in this game comes from Leadership "Bots", without these bots, the game would be AD starved in a month
Did you Know? Based on Zen prices, Cryptic values 1 orange artifact at 600 Dollars if you buy all the stuff completely though them.
Did you Know? If you don't have BiS Gear, your forced to face players who do in "ELO Combat"
Did you know? Once all of this is done, Holier then thou mods will rip down all constructive feedback threads when you go to complain about poor balance on the forums (Expecting this thread to be closed on monday, which is why its a weekend Post)
But hey, Not like the Devs listen to senior player feedback anyways...
They also love ninja Nerfing And ninja buffing abilities
Still tickles me to think shocking execution was a ninja buff, that was un documented on any patch note
================================================================
Dear Current BiS Players!
Did you know!? next module will consist of 50 million ad of costs of JUST Coal wards and marks of potency, this price dosent even factor in the price of RP and materials needed to get full rank 12, BiS gear
Did you know? your current rank10's will probably be useless anyways because HP cap is going up to 100k easy, and teneborus will do 5% of current HP (affected by DR), but with the new armor pen cap, and Over abundance of armor pen on gear, DR will be 0'd out anyways, and you'll be able to stack 35% of your current HP as damage, every time your Tene's Proc .... with no regen to heal it off.
Did you know? the minute you reach level 61, any and all level 60's will forever be more powerful then you
To say the least, a lot of things need to be addressed, All, and I mean all artifacts need to be Bound on ccount
Feeding a legendary artifact to another artifact should create another legendary, but you should be forced to pay for the gmops again
Attention TR's
ITC BUG IS STILL A THING!?!? WTF, THIS BUG HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE BETA
Sorry, I let some class bias get in the way
Attention DC GF and Possibly GWF
Sure Paladin sounds nice and dandy! but as an authors opinion, its a poor choice to supplement the current classes available at the time. In fact, with the current classes Paladin has only one roll, it has to make GF or DC obselete, or it will fail, Paladin should've been implemented as a third paragon path if it was ever added to the game
So other then these Starking Negatives, there are some nice positives
Mention of New PvP content (that dosent include a dazzling open world that no one uses) is planned
With the new linear stat curves, players at level 70 should enjoy a more balanced game that isnt affected nearly as much by gear, but I could be wrong.
Finally, they're revamping all the useless armor and weapon enchants, their will finally be variety in those
Yay! new content woot!
But with all this being said, (and I do know this was sloppy post and im sure I've missed a lot of good points)
Since the Nerf of Shard of Endless avalanche (okay maybe a bit before that), this game has dwindled further and further downward in respects to rewarding challenging gameplay
With the next module RNG fest
With all the TRs with 100% crit and "LOL stealth reveal"
This "action combat" game is getting closer and closer to a click cast and melt, half of the stopping power killing people right now is undodgeable anyways
Please keep all discussion about "fix this class, fix that class" out of this, the problems of the game start at the base
I'll be releasing my State of Mod 6 PvP address for those who want to clash with me about ideologies concerning class balance
but that discussion will never happen if we can't get enough AD or players to keep the game running
DERSIDIUS
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
3 alternative -make refine easy to get (will increase boots)- make refine only possible to get from cryptic controlled vendors with a much much lower cost maby 1/10th or lesser of todays cost- make normal drops better then arifacts and phase this redicules extreamly expensive destuctive way of geting better gear out.
Appart from Tr in pvp nothing in this game comes near to drive people away and scare new new players from even even downloading NW.
Hey you can get deacent gear for a couple of 1000nd $ or bis gear for like 10.000$ Wanna start the download now or ????
Neverwinter's economy? Playing the game doesn't net reliable AD and leadership makes 24k daily increments. Raising BiS gear costs by tens of millions, NOT adding additional reliable revenue streams, and (presumably) nerfing Leadership farming is ludicrous. I'm appalled by what I've seen so far of Mod6's policies.
In regards to your comments about leadership bots, I refer to the leadership whales that have 1000's of rank 20 leadership toons that net 24,000,000 a day X all the people who have a whale (believe it or not they do exist) and thats why the game hasnt been starved of AD yet.....However word around town is that Cryptic intends to remedy those bots
Otherwise, we're never going to see an end to threads like this.
They sort of did this by introducing the tenacity stat.
But then they screwed up by introducing piercing damage.
No PvE Artifacts. Artifact Weapons. Necks. Belts. Jewelry. Nothing.
Make it completely separate.
1 refining alow the hoard stones to work "ie make them 0 sec cd " but keep them bop
2 life steal if you insist on nerfing it then lower the defence curve so we can survive longer cws have it bad all there gear is low defence and low life steal
3 economy you need to totaly stop the the tierd drops on dragons this was the down fall of the economy
tiamat was suposed to be end game but it was never set up for it if you wanted it to be end game then put a min gs
mixing lv60-70s in tiamat is asking for a problemas if we need more issues there
FULL r12s = 15% damage bonus
Full Tenes 35k Damage at 100k Hp
5%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8n0vPNBdvo - the HR in this vid has around 50k HP, a bit low yes but you'll get the idea of how much damage it does.
Cool down was originally 8 seconds , some tests suggest it's around 10 to 15 now
And it's 35k damage on top of whatever your encounter or at will does
Interested to hear your thoughts on Mod 6, class balance. You are usually spot on (at least for BiS characters)
Personally I am really looking forward to the reduction of stats in pvp. Hope it does something to lower the shock of someone brand new entering pvp.
How do you plan to get glory in the first place?
Give people basic PvP sets they can buy with gold.
I won't be able to comment on BiS gear because no one will have it! For a long time
I actually think they are headed in this direction.
With ARP resist where its at ATM noone will be using ARP in PVP. Given that rank 12s are 600 per point and only 1.5% of w.e stat you want to buff, the game will be much less about gear in PVP.
That said it WILL be about artifacts and artifact gear which will make a DRASTIC difference (DC artifact with 60 sec CD?!).
What the game is going to come down to now is which class(es) are the FOTM - either by cryptic choice or cryptics lack of ability to balance (coding issues - SoD double procs are an example).
Im a Free to Play and even I feel cheated and betrayed with this mod...
Also, I only see Paladin as being used as a Sanctuary / aoe stun bot..
My poor Hellbringer Fury specced SW is on its way to being completely useless in PvP with mod 6 =(
I always enjoyed living as a Hybrid, that is, a DPS SPecced character, with stats build in a way for Survivability in PvP, made me basically an offtank in PvE.. I was never the best PvP SW but I also enjoyed the fact that people couldnt just Kill me.. well, until Mod 5, where a BIS TR can one shot me pretty easily.
But at that time I am able to potentially survive if he doesnt dodge roll and stealth away from all of my attacks.
But now, I have no in combat Regen, I have a fairly useless life steal, and no clear definition as to which of my attacks are considered AoE (for the heal reduction from lifesteal when using AoE abilities).
the way I see it, my SW will somehow need to be able to stack HP, Def, Deflect and Crit Chance in order to stay viable in PvP and PvE, without being forced into going Soulbinder, which is a playstyle that I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THE SLIGHTEST
I need to hurry up and finish my PvP GG and IWD campaign so I can go ahead and never step foot in PvP ever gain in this game,..
Oh, icing on the cake = No in combat Regen = Inc Heal Bonus becomes useless without an actual healer present = I wasted all my time and resourced ranking up my Defenders banner for PvP usage...
Thanks again cryptic.
Going to be too expensive and too much added to this mod. Broken enchants reflecting 200k+ dmg to the attacker, unkillable opponents and 1 shotting. PVE is still ungodly easy so for them no reason to even get BiS. New artifact weapons even though it was pretty much told to everyone this is a bad idea. And how much HP are we going to see in future mods.. mod 8 =300k hp? lolz
So whatever suit or dev is making the decisions.. congrats you have almost killed the game.. just need a few last nails to seal the coffin for good.
Honestly you could have worked on a real dungeon, boons, some armor and weapons that drop from that new hard dungeon you worked on. Instead more recycled content, mobs and items.
But hey.. we are getting a velociraptor mount so we all truly win.
What's the matter? Did they cut your commission at the AD seller websites?
Not really constructive on a post that is speaking the truth. Go troll somewhere else nonameplayer.