Went back from sentinel to new destro PvP build testing. Destro is just too much more fun to play. Sentinel can tank much more but the damage just isn't there. I want that "smash things to pieces" feeling.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2014
That's how I felt also. It couldn't kill or finish off anything. I tried a couple of build and got really bored with it. As I said earlier, you have to rely on your team to do the damage and if they cannot you are basically a useless toon. You can try to jump in middle and try CC but with countless dodge and escapes and you are a sitting punch bag you can do very little.
If you want to go Sentinel just go GF. The game play is smoother, more damage and more tank for same GS.
If you want to play destro, it's purpose is to punish 14k GS and under or cheese damage with finishers to get kills. Nothing much on the high end. This reflects the PvP Ladder scorecard, I just feel GWF needs boost somewhere - bring back the old unstoppable and give at least one prone. Additionally, sentinel needs more damage for sure.
That's how I felt also. It couldn't kill or finish off anything. I tried a couple of build and got really bored with it. As I said earlier, you have to rely on your team to do the damage and if they cannot you are basically a useless toon. You can try to jump in middle and try CC but with countless dodge and escapes and you are a sitting punch bag you can do very little.
If you want to go Sentinel just go GF. The game play is smoother, more damage and more tank for same GS.
If you want to play destro, it's purpose is to punish 14k GS and under or cheese damage with finishers to get kills. Nothing much on the high end. This reflects the PvP Ladder scorecard, I just feel GWF needs boost somewhere - bring back the old unstoppable and give at least one prone. Additionally, sentinel needs more damage for sure.
This is a spot on summation. Sent's need DPS from their team, just as I need Buff's Heals and CC's from my team to belt out the kills as destro.
That's how I felt also. It couldn't kill or finish off anything. I tried a couple of build and got really bored with it. As I said earlier, you have to rely on your team to do the damage and if they cannot you are basically a useless toon. You can try to jump in middle and try CC but with countless dodge and escapes and you are a sitting punch bag you can do very little.
If you want to go Sentinel just go GF. The game play is smoother, more damage and more tank for same GS.
If you want to play destro, it's purpose is to punish 14k GS and under or cheese damage with finishers to get kills. Nothing much on the high end. This reflects the PvP Ladder scorecard, I just feel GWF needs boost somewhere - bring back the old unstoppable and give at least one prone. Additionally, sentinel needs more damage for sure.
sry but i have to disagree, sentinel do have alot of dmg with glyphs an all. Maybe your gear level is not high enough (but i do recall gwf performing well even in grim/profound gear) or maybe you are having latency issues and cant land your skills (vs some people happens to me as well).
An encounter setup to minimize that is Cagi/Frontline/IBS and Savage Advance (this one can be easily dodge just like Indomitable Strength).
Imo gwf needs minor adjustments in animations (wicked strike, savage advance, Ibs)and is good to go.
Sentinel should go for crit and vorpal, and high power.
Power can deal good DPS with feated come and gwf it and daring shout.
High critical chance and vorpal make the damage. P.vorpal the best obviously.
You go for come and get it, frontline/ takedown and ibs, and that should be enough.
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The problem is it lacks one chasing mechanism or one CC mechanism. Come & Get it doesn't quite cut it, which comes to the point that you either need Takedown & FLS(without cd on td) or Takedown & BF (with cd on td/bf). What I noticed was a lot of players were able to escape on the verge of being killed. It was painful, annoying and frustrating. On top of that, a real team fight other players are shooting at you and CC you a good 40-50% of the time, and there is no solid way to shut them down.
If you bring in vorporal instead of plague for burst damage there are additional problems:
a) You have to slot more Arm Pen which means less power
b) You have to slot more Crit Rate for the rate to be effective, which means less power
c) My doochikey gives stronger damage than swinging Sure Strike(s) in Sentinel (in dps) - sad, but true.
So not only is it lacking the feats, on sentinel if you bank on vorporal, crit rate + arm pen your power will go down. On top of that Determination builds much faster on Destroyer , go unstoppable - which means more CC immune and landing more damage! The main feats of GWF support IV > Destoryer. As long as you can bank on 40k+ HP, a full P.Bi Set and Enchants the returns are a lot better.
@ ortzhy
Some of you have been playing for around a year. For me I carry 2 P.Bi Set (already have bracers and all level 7 enchants and purple artifacts) . I will hit 4 P.Bi Set in about a week when my IWD rep goes to 350, almost there. Profound/Grim gears don't work for GWF. I favor the Destroyer. As long as you can survive (4xP.Bi Set + 40k+ HP) and land sufficient damage (Arm Pen > 2000, Crit Rate ~25-28%, Power ~ 5.5k+) you are fine. I don't carry something like a 19k GS (around 16k atm) but I do get triple kills 2/4 PvP. It has kept me floating between pages 15-40 in PvP ranking. I tried 2 sentinel build and got fed-up. IV > Destroyer to me, is the only viable build.
But to be brutally honest, even then GWF is a little behind - it needs at least one prone and the old unstoppable to be on par with similar GS. GWF is great for punishing pugs (fast), harass and run and play bodyguard for your team CW/HR/DC.
The problem is it lacks one chasing mechanism or one CC mechanism. Come & Get it doesn't quite cut it, which comes to the point that you either need Takedown & FLS(without cd on td) or Takedown & BF (with cd on td/bf). What I noticed was a lot of players were able to escape on the verge of being killed. It was painful, annoying and frustrating. On top of that, a real team fight other players are shooting at you and CC you a good 40-50% of the time, and there is no solid way to shut them down.
If you bring in vorporal instead of plague for burst damage there are additional problems:
a) You have to slot more Arm Pen which means less power
b) You have to slot more Crit Rate for the rate to be effective, which means less power
c) My doochikey gives stronger damage than swinging Sure Strike(s) in Sentinel (in dps) - sad, but true.
So not only is it lacking the feats, on sentinel if you bank on vorporal, crit rate + arm pen your power will go down. On top of that Determination builds much faster on Destroyer , go unstoppable - which means more CC immune and landing more damage! The main feats of GWF support IV > Destoryer. As long as you can bank on 40k+ HP, a full P.Bi Set and Enchants the returns are a lot better.
@ ortzhy
Some of you have been playing for around a year. For me I carry 2 P.Bi Set (already have bracers and all level 7 enchants and purple artifacts) . I will hit 4 P.Bi Set in about a week when my IWD rep goes to 350, almost there. Profound/Grim gears don't work for GWF. I favor the Destroyer. As long as you can survive (4xP.Bi Set + 40k+ HP) and land sufficient damage (Arm Pen > 2000, Crit Rate ~25-28%, Power ~ 5.5k+) you are fine. I don't carry something like a 19k GS (around 16k atm) but I do get triple kills 2/4 PvP. It has kept me floating between pages 15-40 in PvP ranking. I tried 2 sentinel build and got fed-up. IV > Destroyer to me, is the only viable build.
But to be brutally honest, even then GWF is a little behind - it needs at least one prone and the old unstoppable to be on par with similar GS. GWF is great for punishing pugs (fast), harass and run and play bodyguard for your team CW/HR/DC.
I'm thinking that "Roar" needs root back. And as for sentinel, maybe the "Intimidate" feat should reduce cooldown of "Come and Get Me" and "Daring Shout" and deal 100% damage of power (or 50% of power+defense). That would fit the Sentinel role and even make off-tanking in PvE a reality. *crosses fingers*
I were testing some thing and i found that Plaguefire do not proc "Weapon Master" or "Destroyer" Class-feats anymore... is this any kind of bug or fix?.
Also, i noticed that my "crit chance ratio" (45%) do not match with my "crits" on screen (usually 1 out from 3 or 4 hits)
And, to finish, (not counting that "Deep Gash" does not work. XD) how is possible that GF-class could deal a 6k rank 1 AoD with just 3.5k Power and my rank 3 IBS, with 6.1, deal less damage than that?
1) The GWF's crit chance % and actual crits done seriously pass each other. I would really like to hear something official here as Im definitely not the only GWF player who noticed it. With WM my crit goes to 43% yet the orange on my screen is far less than what it used to be last mod.
2) GF's Conq have flat % damage boost which makes it possible to hit for high damage with less power. Just like Destro GWFs who also have flat damage bonus from different stacks. Without any stacks/mark/etc my Destroyer's base IBS will be above my GF's base AoD.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I noticed it on the Preview server... but i were more focused on other matters than on the crit rate (your %)/ratio (your orange on screen) like the nerf on the GWF-class base damage a 30% to fit and make Threat's mark "viable but no OP" (right now, i do 10% less damage with crit IBS than i did on the previous mod) or the nerf on the base defense for another 30% (i explained both nerfs and test already)
My GF is a Tactician one with 3050 (not 3.5k, sorry) power... and she hits for 4684 - 5568 damage right now...
Do you get those numbers from the tooltip or actual hit done on a mob or dummy ? I play both my fighters almost every day and I havent noticed a base Anvil or any other base GF encounter doing more than a base IBS. ( unless its anvil on an enemy with low hp )
I'll make sure to watch for that if I log tonight but one thing is certain - with all damage buffs ON my GF actually has more single target damage than my GWF while the GWF remains much better at fighting multiple targets in PVE for example. Those Totems in the Pass are still much easier as a GWF than a GF and thats with GF at 19k and GWF at 18k. It boils down to class mechanics, even with stronger powers the GF doesnt really flow as good as a GWF and thats ok i guess for their intended roles.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
...My GWF has just over 6 sec cooldown on Takedown and just over 2 when I miss.Roar is 7.6 sec cooldown (I don't use it but the feat reduces its cooldown as well) Like Pando I play my GWF in that same style. Blitz the back line of the enemy team, Hit and Run and still get involved in Brawls, but always keep your eye on everything around you so you can switch who you are targeting and add to your teams effectiveness in combat. Make use of Any where you can LoS people.
It not only reduces the cool down but increases the damage on both Roar and Takedown, and increases the duration of Battle Fury. It is win win!
^ ,.., ^ The Force is strong with this one GWFs...
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
So anyone has plans for the upcoming changes for Sentinel build? Planned Tree & Encounters ?
Well I do hope Sentinels get a sufficient damage buff for balance. I would be happy to play it. Right now Sentinels barely deal damage and destroyers are all hit & run. Assuming there is additional damage from intimidation, since you play sentinel - how does this tree look to you?
Assuming there is an increase in damage for intimidation :
DS > CAGI > Sprint > Restoring Strike (since IBS would need a stun to work, RS is much easier)
DS > FLS > Spring > IBS
CAGI > Sprint > TD > IBS
DS > CAGI > FLS (all AOE in center spot face tank)
Sentinels with tenebrous enchants+cleric sigil do have a pretty nice burst.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
If I remember correctly, you used CAGI > FLS > Sprint > IBS. Can you share your tree?
Also if intimidation do get a damage increase I think Arp (up to 2k) + 29 CON > then stacking Power would be more desirable, no ?
EDIT: Pretty much, I think this is in their card. Highlighted in red is the subject of interest to me.
Guardian Fighter: Supremacy of Steel: The damage from this power can now be properly deflected and resisted.
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now correctly Marks all targets in an AoE again. Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now properly benefits from damage bonuses, crit, and armor penetration. Additionally, it can now be dodged, deflected, and resisted correctly.
which tells me the 5/5 feats on DS /CAGI is getting a "buff". Lots of possibilities here.
I'm pretty sure it is against forum TOS to discuss further this guild vs guild drama. Also, it is in poor taste to publicly air out the details as it affects certain people here.
You said you got accepted to one of those guilds, perhaps you can ask them.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
No they put a condition on me to use Team Speak, which should happen within a week. I am asking about the builds, not the drama I am focused on the "build" part. No guild drama, please - trim it down.
No they put a condition on me to use Team Speak. I am asking about the builds, not the drama I am focused on the "build" part.
I am not part of any of those guilds to specifically know all the details of the "build" part. There have been some outrage on the general neverwinter forums that details part of the builds (that stemmed from the drama).
0
nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
No good then which makes me go back to:
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now properly benefits from damage bonuses, crit, and armor penetration. Additionally, it can now be dodged, deflected, and resisted correctly.
Tene vs ArP + Power Sentinel build question. I am some-what hopeful sentinel gets a damage boost, somehow. 5K Power is posting 10k+ Damage with 39% DR I think, on CAGI and DS.
Comments
If you want to go Sentinel just go GF. The game play is smoother, more damage and more tank for same GS.
If you want to play destro, it's purpose is to punish 14k GS and under or cheese damage with finishers to get kills. Nothing much on the high end. This reflects the PvP Ladder scorecard, I just feel GWF needs boost somewhere - bring back the old unstoppable and give at least one prone. Additionally, sentinel needs more damage for sure.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
This is a spot on summation. Sent's need DPS from their team, just as I need Buff's Heals and CC's from my team to belt out the kills as destro.
sry but i have to disagree, sentinel do have alot of dmg with glyphs an all. Maybe your gear level is not high enough (but i do recall gwf performing well even in grim/profound gear) or maybe you are having latency issues and cant land your skills (vs some people happens to me as well).
An encounter setup to minimize that is Cagi/Frontline/IBS and Savage Advance (this one can be easily dodge just like Indomitable Strength).
Imo gwf needs minor adjustments in animations (wicked strike, savage advance, Ibs)and is good to go.
Power can deal good DPS with feated come and gwf it and daring shout.
High critical chance and vorpal make the damage. P.vorpal the best obviously.
You go for come and get it, frontline/ takedown and ibs, and that should be enough.
The problem is it lacks one chasing mechanism or one CC mechanism. Come & Get it doesn't quite cut it, which comes to the point that you either need Takedown & FLS(without cd on td) or Takedown & BF (with cd on td/bf). What I noticed was a lot of players were able to escape on the verge of being killed. It was painful, annoying and frustrating. On top of that, a real team fight other players are shooting at you and CC you a good 40-50% of the time, and there is no solid way to shut them down.
If you bring in vorporal instead of plague for burst damage there are additional problems:
a) You have to slot more Arm Pen which means less power
b) You have to slot more Crit Rate for the rate to be effective, which means less power
c) My doochikey gives stronger damage than swinging Sure Strike(s) in Sentinel (in dps) - sad, but true.
So not only is it lacking the feats, on sentinel if you bank on vorporal, crit rate + arm pen your power will go down. On top of that Determination builds much faster on Destroyer , go unstoppable - which means more CC immune and landing more damage! The main feats of GWF support IV > Destoryer. As long as you can bank on 40k+ HP, a full P.Bi Set and Enchants the returns are a lot better.
@ ortzhy
Some of you have been playing for around a year. For me I carry 2 P.Bi Set (already have bracers and all level 7 enchants and purple artifacts) . I will hit 4 P.Bi Set in about a week when my IWD rep goes to 350, almost there. Profound/Grim gears don't work for GWF. I favor the Destroyer. As long as you can survive (4xP.Bi Set + 40k+ HP) and land sufficient damage (Arm Pen > 2000, Crit Rate ~25-28%, Power ~ 5.5k+) you are fine. I don't carry something like a 19k GS (around 16k atm) but I do get triple kills 2/4 PvP. It has kept me floating between pages 15-40 in PvP ranking. I tried 2 sentinel build and got fed-up. IV > Destroyer to me, is the only viable build.
But to be brutally honest, even then GWF is a little behind - it needs at least one prone and the old unstoppable to be on par with similar GS. GWF is great for punishing pugs (fast), harass and run and play bodyguard for your team CW/HR/DC.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
I'm thinking that "Roar" needs root back. And as for sentinel, maybe the "Intimidate" feat should reduce cooldown of "Come and Get Me" and "Daring Shout" and deal 100% damage of power (or 50% of power+defense). That would fit the Sentinel role and even make off-tanking in PvE a reality. *crosses fingers*
1) The GWF's crit chance % and actual crits done seriously pass each other. I would really like to hear something official here as Im definitely not the only GWF player who noticed it. With WM my crit goes to 43% yet the orange on my screen is far less than what it used to be last mod.
2) GF's Conq have flat % damage boost which makes it possible to hit for high damage with less power. Just like Destro GWFs who also have flat damage bonus from different stacks. Without any stacks/mark/etc my Destroyer's base IBS will be above my GF's base AoD.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Do you get those numbers from the tooltip or actual hit done on a mob or dummy ? I play both my fighters almost every day and I havent noticed a base Anvil or any other base GF encounter doing more than a base IBS. ( unless its anvil on an enemy with low hp )
I'll make sure to watch for that if I log tonight but one thing is certain - with all damage buffs ON my GF actually has more single target damage than my GWF
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
^ ,.., ^ The Force is strong with this one GWFs...
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?771951-Intimidation-Feat-proc-dmg-out-of-control-Details-inside&p=9174301#post9174301
I think the idea is to (according to him):
DS > FLS > IBS
Other possible permutation for the changed damage could be:
DS > CAGI > Restoring Strike
DS > TD > IBS
CAGI > TD > IBS
CAGI > DS > Restoring Strike
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
Well I do hope Sentinels get a sufficient damage buff for balance. I would be happy to play it. Right now Sentinels barely deal damage and destroyers are all hit & run. Assuming there is additional damage from intimidation, since you play sentinel - how does this tree look to you?
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=cn4:13ydj4:13ydj4,13ilx00:100000:1uu000:15u0z1&h=0&p=ivn (recommend what changes should be made)
Assuming there is an increase in damage for intimidation :
DS > CAGI > Sprint > Restoring Strike (since IBS would need a stun to work, RS is much easier)
DS > FLS > Spring > IBS
CAGI > Sprint > TD > IBS
DS > CAGI > FLS (all AOE in center spot face tank)
Any of these any good?
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
Also if intimidation do get a damage increase I think Arp (up to 2k) + 29 CON > then stacking Power would be more desirable, no ?
EDIT: Pretty much, I think this is in their card. Highlighted in red is the subject of interest to me.
Guardian Fighter: Supremacy of Steel: The damage from this power can now be properly deflected and resisted.
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now correctly Marks all targets in an AoE again.
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now properly benefits from damage bonuses, crit, and armor penetration. Additionally, it can now be dodged, deflected, and resisted correctly.
which tells me the 5/5 feats on DS /CAGI is getting a "buff". Lots of possibilities here.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
I'm pretty sure it is against forum TOS to discuss further this guild vs guild drama. Also, it is in poor taste to publicly air out the details as it affects certain people here.
You said you got accepted to one of those guilds, perhaps you can ask them.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
I am not part of any of those guilds to specifically know all the details of the "build" part. There have been some outrage on the general neverwinter forums that details part of the builds (that stemmed from the drama).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now properly benefits from damage bonuses, crit, and armor penetration. Additionally, it can now be dodged, deflected, and resisted correctly.
Tene vs ArP + Power Sentinel build question. I am some-what hopeful sentinel gets a damage boost, somehow. 5K Power is posting 10k+ Damage with 39% DR I think, on CAGI and DS.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website