I think the dailies from Rhix (500 glory and 2k rough diamonds) fine and enticing enough to encourage players to play out the match.
Of course, I'm talking about general population, not people who have no responsibilities or school or work and have several hours to sit at home and play a video game
They do not. They entice players to queue for a match and not leave, they have no bearing on a enticing a player to actually play out the match. That's the problem. Players can camp or hide instead of fighting, and still get the same exact reward. It's a broken carrot because it doesn't encourage the proper behavior, it depends on the stick to elicit said behavior and the stick doesn't work because the carrot is broken.
They do not. They entice players to queue for a match and not leave, they have no bearing on a enticing a player to actually play out the match. That's the problem. Players can camp or hide instead of fighting, and still get the same exact reward. It's a broken carrot because it doesn't encourage the proper behavior, it depends on the stick to elicit said behavior and the stick doesn't work because the carrot is broken.
There is another quest given by the Domination Master which gives the same rewards plus the elusive seals of triumph, but you only need to play 1 match and win it.
I think that is a pretty good reward. The one Rhix gives does not have seals in it.
I know what you are saying but ever since the patch, I've had close to zero games with people leaving or AFKing in the campfire
It depends on what you think is the main source of leavers. I think leavers are those that don't want to play unless they can win and steamroll the other team 100% of the time.
Then you'd be wrong. Sure, there are some who leave for that reason - the folk who leave as soon as they've inspected their team members (the gate has even dropped), and those who strangely vanish even if their team is winning by a narrow margin. But in the games I've played since the patch I don't recall a single instance of either behaviour.
What's left is folk who leave because their toons are curb-stomped within seconds of leaving spawn due to a huge GS mismatch. If ELO ever starts to really work then their numbers will drop anyway.
The one that I hear all the time is to simply increase the rewards. The rewards were higher.
It amazes me that people do not remember how many people simply joined PVP matches to never leave the base.
Why?
The carrot for winning was so close to losing people didn't care and didn't want to even try to win.
Carrot got increased to encourage people to actually PvP. Result? People left because they don't want to lose.
Proper solution: stick slap across the rear end.
Let's not forget Einstei's definition of insanity: repeating the same action expecting a different result.
If the carrot scales people will still feel the same way. If the carrot difference is decreased people will AFK.
We have already been there and there is no logical reason to go back.
Again, not reading or understanding the overall recommendation I made. If I was simply calling for increased reward regardless of a win or loss, sure, I could agree that we would simply be making the mistakes of the past. That is not even remotely close to my suggestion, so no, I can not agree, in any way, that my suggestion would put us back in the same place we were a year ago.
Remove the daily Glory reward (I'd say tie the AD reward into matches as well, with a daily cap). Base the reward for losing on activity measures like damage taken, damage given, time spent fighting on cap etc..
Joining a fight and camping will get you nothing. Joining a fight and hiding will get you nothing. NO REWARD AT ALL.
Joining a fight and getting your butt kicked, but continuing to fight back regardless will earn you a decent reward. Not as much as winning, but let's say something in the realm of 75%-80% max.
Now, people who join a fight only to camp or hide get nothing. They know now, if they join a fight, they HAVE to fight to get a reward, and they won't get next to nothing for losing, as long as they keep fighting.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
There is another quest given by the Domination Master which gives the same rewards plus the elusive seals of triumph, but you only need to play 1 match and win it.
I think that is a pretty good reward. The one Rhix gives does not have seals in it.
I know what you are saying but ever since the patch, I've had close to zero games with people leaving or AFKing in the campfire
I haven't seen near as many people leaving, but I have seen several camping/hiding. There have even been people on the forum bragging about camping/hiding as a way to make matches take less time and earn their same reward in a faster time. Broken much?
I haven't seen near as many people leaving, but I have seen several camping/hiding. There have even been people on the forum bragging about camping/hiding as a way to make matches take less time and earn their same reward in a faster time. Broken much?
It is not the same reward though.
If you win, you get twice the glory, twice the rough diamonds and a seal of triumph by playing 2 games.
If you lose, you get half the glory, half the rough diamonds, no seal of triumph by playing 4 games.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
If you win, you get twice the glory, twice the rough diamonds and a seal of triumph by playing 2 games.
If you lose, you get half the glory, half the rough diamonds, no seal of triumph by playing 4 games.
Faster matches, by sabotage, get them 4 faster than 2 close matches. Plus, sabotaging the matches lowers their ranking, gets them an easier opponent, and lets them pick up their win for the coin easier as well.
The carrot for winning was so close to losing people didn't care and didn't want to even try to win.
Carrot got increased to encourage people to actually PvP. Result? People left because they don't want to lose.
Proper solution: stick slap across the rear end.
Ever considered to put the bloody carrot for PvE a nudge lower than the PvP carrot?
That would get the leechers and easy going types out of PvP.
Oh, bots, you say. Well, I am sure Cryptic has a few algorithms to find those!
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Faster matches, by sabotage, get them 4 faster than 2 close matches. Plus, sabotaging the matches lowers their ranking, gets them an easier opponent, and lets them pick up their win for the coin easier as well.
But you are still not getting the reward for "Domination Master" which doubles Rhix's rewards and gives you a seal of triumph
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014
The answer is in my post that you quoted. Seriously. This is like shooting fish in a barrell.
Comments
They do not. They entice players to queue for a match and not leave, they have no bearing on a enticing a player to actually play out the match. That's the problem. Players can camp or hide instead of fighting, and still get the same exact reward. It's a broken carrot because it doesn't encourage the proper behavior, it depends on the stick to elicit said behavior and the stick doesn't work because the carrot is broken.
There is another quest given by the Domination Master which gives the same rewards plus the elusive seals of triumph, but you only need to play 1 match and win it.
I think that is a pretty good reward. The one Rhix gives does not have seals in it.
I know what you are saying but ever since the patch, I've had close to zero games with people leaving or AFKing in the campfire
Then you'd be wrong. Sure, there are some who leave for that reason - the folk who leave as soon as they've inspected their team members (the gate has even dropped), and those who strangely vanish even if their team is winning by a narrow margin. But in the games I've played since the patch I don't recall a single instance of either behaviour.
What's left is folk who leave because their toons are curb-stomped within seconds of leaving spawn due to a huge GS mismatch. If ELO ever starts to really work then their numbers will drop anyway.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Again, not reading or understanding the overall recommendation I made. If I was simply calling for increased reward regardless of a win or loss, sure, I could agree that we would simply be making the mistakes of the past. That is not even remotely close to my suggestion, so no, I can not agree, in any way, that my suggestion would put us back in the same place we were a year ago.
Remove the daily Glory reward (I'd say tie the AD reward into matches as well, with a daily cap). Base the reward for losing on activity measures like damage taken, damage given, time spent fighting on cap etc..
Joining a fight and camping will get you nothing. Joining a fight and hiding will get you nothing. NO REWARD AT ALL.
Joining a fight and getting your butt kicked, but continuing to fight back regardless will earn you a decent reward. Not as much as winning, but let's say something in the realm of 75%-80% max.
Now, people who join a fight only to camp or hide get nothing. They know now, if they join a fight, they HAVE to fight to get a reward, and they won't get next to nothing for losing, as long as they keep fighting.
I haven't seen near as many people leaving, but I have seen several camping/hiding. There have even been people on the forum bragging about camping/hiding as a way to make matches take less time and earn their same reward in a faster time. Broken much?
It is not the same reward though.
If you win, you get twice the glory, twice the rough diamonds and a seal of triumph by playing 2 games.
If you lose, you get half the glory, half the rough diamonds, no seal of triumph by playing 4 games.
Faster matches, by sabotage, get them 4 faster than 2 close matches. Plus, sabotaging the matches lowers their ranking, gets them an easier opponent, and lets them pick up their win for the coin easier as well.
That would get the leechers and easy going types out of PvP.
Oh, bots, you say. Well, I am sure Cryptic has a few algorithms to find those!
But you are still not getting the reward for "Domination Master" which doubles Rhix's rewards and gives you a seal of triumph