Agree with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>... i hitted gwf who got 70% life with SE just to help my team mate and leave node to go to another, and i was like LOL when i saw 35k with greater vorp 0_0 SE is counting HP differently since new patch. So smoke from stealth + shadow + lashing and SE combo is GG almost in any case (you can survive only if SE will not crit) If this is what we get after IS nerf and terribad set stats... hey, ill take it
well i guess at least is not 1 shot lashing blade as it used to be... hope is not wai, maybe it should hit under a certain % and to scale with target def rating or something cause now with debuffs stacking i do imagine it can 1 shot even a 40k hp tank.
TRs with right build and a bit of skills are now able to stall multiple opponents better than anyone else (talking about that hybrid perma build). And yes, SE ingores tenacity. Still 16-19-21k hits on tanks.
One of these TRs today could stall 3-4 of my team mates on our base, and when we were losing 960-800 i got to ask my team to be left alone with him on our point 1 to stall him, which allowed us to win in the end. He was also able to kill me with a 21k SE hit.
I don't think TRs have a reason to complain. Enjoy the changes and adapt.
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driiizztMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited March 2014
Sorry guys i won;t read that wall of text but i also want to whine a bit. I'am 15k GS + TR and i mostly finish my pvp matches with like 20+ kills + i never used at pvp impact shot, but now - at pvp they boost tanky chars because they will be mutch more tanky now (GWF) and TR's like me (glass canon) won;t survive mutch more longer. Moreover they nerfer what i based for - they nerfed crit at PvP resist so now they force me insted of using crit build to change for poison one with perma stealh. Tell me, why all of the new PvP sets force me to use longer stealth, when i won;t use this ability that mutch? Why no other stat like recovery? 1 more thing is, when they added PvP resist they should also give us PvP penetration to give ppl like me, more chance to keep glass canon build.
BTW. Why they didn't add wearpons with bonus? I have fomorian ones, so they are mutch more better because of bonus, so i won;t get more PvP resist cause i'am forced to use PvE ones.
Sorry guys i won;t read that wall of text but i also want to whine a bit. I'am 15k GS + TR and i mostly finish my pvp matches with like 20+ kills + i never used at pvp impact shot, but now - at pvp they boost tanky chars because they will be mutch more tanky now (GWF) and TR's like me (glass canon) won;t survive mutch more longer.
All classes have been boosted equally. I survive longer -- but not that "long" enough to face-tank any fighter classes. The increased survivability gives me the time to escape situations which normally I would not have prior to the patch.
Moreover they nerfer what i based for - they nerfed crit at PvP resist so now they force me insted of using crit build to change for poison one with perma stealh. Tell me, why all of the new PvP sets force me to use longer stealth, when i won;t use this ability that mutch? Why no other stat like recovery?
1. The lower crit-rate is simply a result of the Grimset. Get up to the Profoud set and that will recover most of the critchance we lost. No big deal at all.
2. They have recovery-based armorsets and equipment as well. You didn't look hard enough.
1 more thing is, when they added PvP resist they should also give us PvP penetration to give ppl like me, more chance to keep glass canon build.
It's not about the "glass cannon". I'm not even an Executioner path and I'm doing fine with damage. It's about what skills and tactics you use. I've never seen how you fight so I can't definately say, but I can take a guess. The meta has changed. If your old theme doesn't work, then you simply adapt.
BTW. Why they didn't add wearpons with bonus? I have fomorian ones, so they are mutch more better because of bonus, so i won;t get more PvP resist cause i'am forced to use PvE ones.
Doesn't make much of a difference if you already have around 20% damage resistance and CC resistance. It's not like TRs are GFs or GWFs. Most of our defense is not from Tenacity, but from clever positioning and situational awareness.
If you don't like the new weapons, just use your current ones.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited March 2014
TR needs more nerf, does way too much damage in PVE and can stealth in PVP. Not fair. Someone please give GWF stealth. Can call it unstoppable stealth. One time a TR killed a GWF. True story.
Almost all TR's were crit based. This patch reduced the effectiveness of that stat significantly. Not saying we can't be successful but the latest patch really hit most TR builds hard. (and any other classes that specced for crit)
My TR is more certainly more tanky now but as it takes much more to finish off anyone the added tankiness is a wash. You will eventually beat the players you would have before but it now takes twice as long. Overall it makes things seem less fast paced and more tedious, which is not a good thing IMO. The best thing the game has was its style and pace of combat.
And I am annoyed that we are going to have a bigger divide in PVP vs PVE specs. I like doing both content but it seems like I will have to pick one and spec accordingly. Kinda wish they would have addressed the OP sent and perma builds first. Then see what pvp was like instead of this huge change.
TR needs more nerf, does way too much damage in PVE and can stealth in PVP. Not fair. Someone please give GWF stealth. Can call it unstoppable stealth. One time a TR killed a GWF. True story.
Quite frankly I'd give TRs their damage back in exchange for nerfing their stealth.
100% uptime of untouchability is nonsense. Nothing worse than being trolled by something that you either cannot see or when you do see it you can't hit it because you are dazed. Okay, well an IV Sent is worse, but the perma stealth is a close second.
I'd much rather fight something that hits hard that I can also hit than some Bilethorn-wielding ghost that I cannot even nick.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Almost all TR's were crit based. This patch reduced the effectiveness of that stat significantly. Not saying we can't be successful but the latest patch really hit most TR builds hard. (and any other classes that specced for crit)
My TR is more certainly more tanky now but as it takes much more to finish off anyone the added tankiness is a wash. You will eventually beat the players you would have before but it now takes twice as long. Overall it makes things seem less fast paced and more tedious, which is not a good thing IMO. The best thing the game has was its style and pace of combat.
And I am annoyed that we are going to have a bigger divide in PVP vs PVE specs. I like doing both content but it seems like I will have to pick one and spec accordingly. Kinda wish they would have addressed the OP sent and perma builds first. Then see what pvp was like instead of this huge change.
Crit builds were there for CWs and GWFs too. GWFs module 2 sentinels in PvP were all CON-DEX, iron vanguard, SF+Vorpal critical builds. Which was the source of such huge spike damage. Crits in PvP needed a nerf.
It takes longer to kill people, yes. Alone. 2v1 focused, it's way faster. Which just means it requires a bit more teamplay and not just "zomfg i faceroll people with one rotation". And before someone kicks in saying "you say that cause you are not a DPS build", no, i use a DPS build on my GWF and used to kill many players in 1 rotation. Still, i think the slower pace is better. The focus of domination is not to kill people, it's to hold nodes. If fights are longer, it's more important to put some strategy in your game and split your team.
The fast paced combat was not a good thing. It could be from a TR point of view to be able to 1 shot people or kill them in few seconds from full health, but for PvP gameplay it was terrible. People Always going for the kill, fighting off-node.
Shocking execution hits for 16-19-21k on tanks, and there are reports of 35k hits through tenacity.
So i think the class still have a way to deal monster damage.
TRs are fine where they are now for PvP. Need probably some love in PvE.
@Pando, "TRs are fine where they are now for PvP". Wait what? 9/10 TR's I come across in PvP is perma scrubs with bile. They troll the nodes for 2 hours and if they get close to death they will simply kite away and regen up and come back for more trolling. The "top PvP guilds" take advantage of this by most often running 2 of these trolls in their lineup. This is not the way it was intended, clearly. They also make sure to add 2 GWF's that just rush everyone and everything like a bull on adrenaline. The so called "top pvp guilds" all do this. I don't even know if people are allowed into these guilds if they don't use a pure troll build. The funny thing about all this is that they think they are good players for winning. Yeah most of them know that they are cowardly trolls exploiting bad game design, but I'm sure that they think that this requires skill as well. A low geared GWF Sent is OP, a high geared GWF sent is just silly. And if he is actually a decent player as well? Well... GWF Sent needs a nerf so bad, and I have no clue why none has come yet. Same goes for permas, but they are mostly just annoying and may cause you to lose the game because of time spent with them. The Sent's just ruin the PvP experience on all levels.
@Pando, "TRs are fine where they are now for PvP". Wait what? 9/10 TR's I come across in PvP is perma scrubs with bile. They troll the nodes for 2 hours and if they get close to death they will simply kite away and regen up and come back for more trolling.
Like it or not, froszzt, you've just admitted that TRs still work, and still can do what they used to do best prior to the patch.
The "top PvP guilds" take advantage of this by most often running 2 of these trolls in their lineup. This is not the way it was intended, clearly. They also make sure to add 2 GWF's that just rush everyone and everything like a bull on adrenaline. The so called "top pvp guilds" all do this. I don't even know if people are allowed into these guilds if they don't use a pure troll build. The funny thing about all this is that they think they are good players for winning. Yeah most of them know that they are cowardly trolls exploiting bad game design, but I'm sure that they think that this requires skill as well. A low geared GWF Sent is OP, a high geared GWF sent is just silly. And if he is actually a decent player as well? Well... GWF Sent needs a nerf so bad, and I have no clue why none has come yet. Same goes for permas, but they are mostly just annoying and may cause you to lose the game because of time spent with them. The Sent's just ruin the PvP experience on all levels.
Wut?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
All these people complaining about permastealth TRs really ought to try and play one. It isn't easy. It needs a very specific build and gear plus some skill in managing CDs and stealth duration. I've tried that path on my TR and honestly, it's difficult to make it work well. OTOH I rolled a GWF IV Sent and was facerolling people as soon as I ground my first set of purples. No practice required.
Crit builds were there for CWs and GWFs too. GWFs module 2 sentinels in PvP were all CON-DEX, iron vanguard, SF+Vorpal critical builds. Which was the source of such huge spike damage. Crits in PvP needed a nerf.
It takes longer to kill people, yes. Alone. 2v1 focused, it's way faster. Which just means it requires a bit more teamplay and not just "zomfg i faceroll people with one rotation". And before someone kicks in saying "you say that cause you are not a DPS build", no, i use a DPS build on my GWF and used to kill many players in 1 rotation. Still, i think the slower pace is better. The focus of domination is not to kill people, it's to hold nodes. If fights are longer, it's more important to put some strategy in your game and split your team.
The fast paced combat was not a good thing. It could be from a TR point of view to be able to 1 shot people or kill them in few seconds from full health, but for PvP gameplay it was terrible. People Always going for the kill, fighting off-node.
Shocking execution hits for 16-19-21k on tanks, and there are reports of 35k hits through tenacity.
So i think the class still have a way to deal monster damage.
TRs are fine where they are now for PvP. Need probably some love in PvE.
I agree all crit builds got a big nerf, again this was almost every TR. We need the crit builds for PvE dps. Now there are going to be much different builds for pvp than pve. meaning you have to gimp one.
I disagree with saying the slower pace is better. I am not talking stomping, the pace goes both ways. Now it seems like everything is more sluggish, not as fun IMO. 2v1 is faster now if you are talking about gwfs. Just because before you needed 3 or more 2v1 on other classes is slower now as well (still faster than 1v1 though). I'm glad SE hits for over 10k still, or else I would never be able to finish tanks off. I think 35k is exaggerated, unless the GWF is naked and debuffed and lying
Anyway to each their own. I'm sure pvp will change again with the next patch.
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
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driiizztMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
Shocking execution hits for 16-19-21k on tanks, and there are reports of 35k hits through tenacity.
So i think the class still have a way to deal monster damage.
Read desription of a skill - SE bypass all def (also tenacity) so that's not a bug and the only one good DPS skill of TR nowadays.
From the other side I agree with ppl who posts that perma-stealth is too OP - they should nerf it a bit -for example lose some stealth with every hit.
TR needs more nerf, does way too much damage in PVE and can stealth in PVP. Not fair. Someone please give GWF stealth. Can call it unstoppable stealth. One time a TR killed a GWF. True story.
@Pando, "TRs are fine where they are now for PvP". Wait what? 9/10 TR's I come across in PvP is perma scrubs with bile. They troll the nodes for 2 hours and if they get close to death they will simply kite away and regen up and come back for more trolling.
I happen to be the 1/10 of the 15K TR population still holding onto my 40% deflect slightly-less-efficient heavy assault combat. Biletrolls are still annoying, GWF used to be infuriating. At least HR can't root me through ITC no more. I'm not in a position to complain about the nerfs really because the hardest hit were the glass cannons.
Mmm! First time I've heard of it but it makes sense. We usually just call em Cookie-Cutter Executioners but that's pretty long so I guess I'll just use Combat TR from now on too.
So I gave tenacity a week before commenting more on it and I've come to this conclusion
With the Nerf to Regen and the Poor defensive stat allocation choices the current Best TR build (call it Perm stealth bilethorn if you like, but thats the wrong way to name it) has become an even less skillful choice due to the fact that PoB, now being the norm is completely skill-less
Now I know a lot of you probably don't care about it because you run a "Combat TR" but because of Healing depression Path of Blades is now a really OP ability, since you can't regen the PoB ticks back. I say this has become a skill-less play-style simply because with this patch the TR class has indeed become a gear race. whoevers gear is stronger/ whoever has More HP has a supreme advantage when using pob to those with lesser stats. And with the impact shot nerf, and being that Lashing blade is very hard to land, it's complete lunacy to try to use burst damage as a mean of counter acting path of blades.
So they've reduced us to this
Stack the MOST HP and AP gain you can get
Drop PoB
Wait around till someone dies
if they arent dead you, drop SE
Good game.
No skill, No aiming, No timing, No worries.
I the New TR
And this is why I say the class is gimped. If you want to hope to win now, your forced into this type of playstyle with no alternative as a TR vs TR to counter it on top of the issue that it's COMPLETELY SKILL-LESS.
Now some of you may say "Well why don't you just run away from the PoB"
Simple explanation, Our PVP is based on node capture, that means if I want to do the best to help my team I'm going to have to eat all that PoB damage, to capture the node... and Hope my gear is better then his.. because if worse comes to worse and his gear is better then mine. He can just kite all my Melee at will's ITC through my CoS and just wait for PoB to do the dirty work and win for the sole reason that he has more HP then I.
I hope all the people saying we didn't get a gimp enjoy the new play-style
Because IMO, the true nerf, is taking all the fun and skill out of a class.
And even they nerfed us already, I'm all for Cryptic nerfing PoB into oblivion.
And this is why I say the class is gimped. If you want to hope to win now, your forced into this type of playstyle with no alternative as a TR vs TR to counter it on top of the issue that it's COMPLETELY SKILL-LESS.
Now some of you may say "Well why don't you just run away from the PoB"
Simple explanation, Our PVP is based on node capture, that means if I want to do the best to help my team I'm going to have to eat all that PoB damage, to capture the node... and Hope my gear is better then his.. because if worse comes to worse and his gear is better then mine. He can just kite all my Melee at will's ITC through my CoS and just wait for PoB to do the dirty work and win for the sole reason that he has more HP then I.
I hope all the people saying we didn't get a gimp enjoy the new play-style
Because IMO, the true nerf, is taking all the fun and skill out of a class.
Well done man, and then of course the pointlessness of ELO in a small-population game. From the patch notes, let me paste them yet again:
Adjusted Domination PvP queues to throttle matchmaking queuing speeds based on population and current average queue wait times to get the best of matchmaking and reasonable queue times.
So I gave tenacity a week before commenting more on it and I've come to this conclusion
With the Nerf to Regen and the Poor defensive stat allocation choices the current Best TR build (call it Perm stealth bilethorn if you like, but thats the wrong way to name it) has become an even less skillful choice due to the fact that PoB, now being the norm is completely skill-less
Now I know a lot of you probably don't care about it because you run a "Combat TR" but because of Healing depression Path of Blades is now a really OP ability, since you can't regen the PoB ticks back. I say this has become a skill-less play-style simply because with this patch the TR class has indeed become a gear race. whoevers gear is stronger/ whoever has More HP has a supreme advantage when using pob to those with lesser stats. And with the impact shot nerf, and being that Lashing blade is very hard to land, it's complete lunacy to try to use burst damage as a mean of counter acting path of blades.
So they've reduced us to this
Stack the MOST HP and AP gain you can get
Drop PoB
Wait around till someone dies
if they arent dead you, drop SE
Good game.
No skill, No aiming, No timing, No worries.
I the New TR
And this is why I say the class is gimped. If you want to hope to win now, your forced into this type of playstyle with no alternative as a TR vs TR to counter it on top of the issue that it's COMPLETELY SKILL-LESS.
Now some of you may say "Well why don't you just run away from the PoB"
Simple explanation, Our PVP is based on node capture, that means if I want to do the best to help my team I'm going to have to eat all that PoB damage, to capture the node... and Hope my gear is better then his.. because if worse comes to worse and his gear is better then mine. He can just kite all my Melee at will's ITC through my CoS and just wait for PoB to do the dirty work and win for the sole reason that he has more HP then I.
I hope all the people saying we didn't get a gimp enjoy the new play-style
Because IMO, the true nerf, is taking all the fun and skill out of a class.
And even they nerfed us already, I'm all for Cryptic nerfing PoB into oblivion.
O please PoB isn't all it's cut out to be.
I got caught off guard by a PoB TR in a game today and due to him having help took a quick death.
By the end of the game, I killed him regularly and I outscored him by over 2000 points when I was on the losing side
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Completely agree with sicarius' observations on the new (old...) PoB TR style. Add to this the SE bug(?), and you end up with some pretty low requirements for actual player skill, with abilities that never miss, 90% of the time spent hidden and so on. TRs might be even more powerful today then they were before patch IMO, but it requires this pretty lame (IMO) playstyle with less dynamic than it was before.
With the Nerf to Regen and the Poor defensive stat allocation choices the current Best TR build (call it Perm stealth bilethorn if you like, but thats the wrong way to name it) has become an even less skillful choice due to the fact that PoB, now being the norm is completely skill-less
PoB overhyped. Too much exaggeration there.
Now I know a lot of you probably don't care about it because you run a "Combat TR" but because of Healing depression Path of Blades is now a really OP ability, since you can't regen the PoB ticks back. I say this has become a skill-less play-style simply because with this patch the TR class has indeed become a gear race. whoevers gear is stronger/ whoever has More HP has a supreme advantage when using pob to those with lesser stats.
PvP has always been a gear race, whomever's gear is stronger/has more HP always has a supreme advantage in whatever style you play. You're talking as if this is something new, or something strange, or both.
And with the impact shot nerf, and being that Lashing blade is very hard to land, it's complete lunacy to try to use burst damage as a mean of counter acting path of blades.
ITC, SS, PoB -- Anyone using this set of encounters has zero active offensive encounters, and has only PoB as a passive offensive tool that goes on for what, 10 seconds? And then a long recharge. If those TRs are using the standard CoS/DF as at-wills, then CoS is basically fluff damage that rapidly drops in DPS once the first 8 charges are gone, and DF is a telegraphed punch you can see coming from a mile away. Provided HP/gear levels are similar you can simply rush to the middle of PoB and start duking it out with Sly Flourish in his face and simply dodge from DF, and that still out DPS the other guy.
So they've reduced us to this
Stack the MOST HP and AP gain you can get
Drop PoB
Wait around till someone dies
if they arent dead you, drop SE
Good game.
No skill, No aiming, No timing, No worries.
I the New TR
And this is why I say the class is gimped. If you want to hope to win now, your forced into this type of playstyle with no alternative as a TR vs TR to counter it on top of the issue that it's COMPLETELY SKILL-LESS.
At this point, I'm not sure how you mean to counter anything when;
(1) you don't research new tactics
(2) you don't try different builds
(3) you don't try different encounter choices
(4) you don't try different at-will choices
Its just one-long QQ about how you can't seem to find a way to defeat a PoB-build TR.
Now some of you may say "Well why don't you just run away from the PoB"
Simple explanation, Our PVP is based on node capture, that means if I want to do the best to help my team I'm going to have to eat all that PoB damage, to capture the node... and Hope my gear is better then his.. because if worse comes to worse and his gear is better then mine. He can just kite all my Melee at will's ITC through my CoS and just wait for PoB to do the dirty work and win for the sole reason that he has more HP then I.
There are other ways to help the team. Rushing the back nodes is simply one choice out of many. If that is not an option, you can always find a different role/purpose as a TR. If you can't steal the back-node? Fine. Just help your friends with any other combat so you always maintain a 2 node advantage over the other team. It's a slower win than disrupting enemy back nodes, but works nonetheless.
I hope all the people saying we didn't get a gimp enjoy the new play-style
Because IMO, the true nerf, is taking all the fun and skill out of a class.
And even they nerfed us already, I'm all for Cryptic nerfing PoB into oblivion.
I gave Scary and Lil's 2-man premade a run for their money. They are very good players so I needed some help from at least one other person. They were using the PoB build, two of them as a team. I was with PuGs so no one to really watch my back every time. Still, despite their back-node trolling efforts, I managed kills/deaths pretty much even with them. They'd kill me more often since they were working together, but with as much help from my own team I managed to kill them evenly. Ofcourse, they are excellent players, some of the best, and in a pure 1vs1 things usually went bad for me around 6 times out of 10, but did manage to turn the tables quite often in rest of the cases.
Did all of this with a WK build and 25k HP, too. I'm pretty damned sure they outgeared me in enchantments by 2~3 ranks as well.
So, does that qualify as an anecdote good enough to refute your doom-preaching about the PoB TRs, or do you need me to slay the god of TRs or something?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
While I do agree with most things said here, I'd like to think there is still some diversity left to the class. I have a Combat TR that I've worked laboriously on--not just gear wise, it's a build that has a very specific focus: Reflect.
Taking Tenacity to my advantage, I stacked defense and deflect to 35 and 45 percent respectively, apart from the base 10% resistance and Tenacity gear bonus, bringing my offensive stats to a modest 2.5k on average. The cornerstone of the build is MI ITC combined with the Sharandar Boon Fey Thistle: a proc damage of 400 affected by target's resistance for every deflected hit.
ITC and my 40-45% deflect makes for a good uptime, so much so that permastealth PoB TR are considerably less threat to me because
1. PoB ticks are really negligible, 500 normal damage, 170-250 when deflected, and each time I deflect a PoB tick I reflect more damage.
2. I believe the reflected damage eats through stealth.
3. Physical DoT, to the exception of bleed, procs reflect. CW Conduit of Ice, Magic Missles etc does more damage to them than to me.
4. It's often easy to take out two or three opponents singlehandedly--wait scratch that we weild two daggers--but you get the point.
The hardest part is obtaining Fey Thistle since it's the 5th Sharandar boon.
I'm not the smartest person in here, I'm sure a lot of you could come up with better ideas and better builds than the permastealth rogue. PS: Last I checked Bilethorn is still procing twice on Duelist Flurry. I think it's a bug, but I was hoping somebody could confirm my assumption.
Comments
well i guess at least is not 1 shot lashing blade as it used to be... hope is not wai, maybe it should hit under a certain % and to scale with target def rating or something cause now with debuffs stacking i do imagine it can 1 shot even a 40k hp tank.
I had to log in just to laugh at this.
TRs with right build and a bit of skills are now able to stall multiple opponents better than anyone else (talking about that hybrid perma build). And yes, SE ingores tenacity. Still 16-19-21k hits on tanks.
One of these TRs today could stall 3-4 of my team mates on our base, and when we were losing 960-800 i got to ask my team to be left alone with him on our point 1 to stall him, which allowed us to win in the end. He was also able to kill me with a 21k SE hit.
I don't think TRs have a reason to complain. Enjoy the changes and adapt.
BTW. Why they didn't add wearpons with bonus? I have fomorian ones, so they are mutch more better because of bonus, so i won;t get more PvP resist cause i'am forced to use PvE ones.
Drizzt Sama@driiizzt
All classes have been boosted equally. I survive longer -- but not that "long" enough to face-tank any fighter classes. The increased survivability gives me the time to escape situations which normally I would not have prior to the patch.
1. The lower crit-rate is simply a result of the Grimset. Get up to the Profoud set and that will recover most of the critchance we lost. No big deal at all.
2. They have recovery-based armorsets and equipment as well. You didn't look hard enough.
It's not about the "glass cannon". I'm not even an Executioner path and I'm doing fine with damage. It's about what skills and tactics you use. I've never seen how you fight so I can't definately say, but I can take a guess. The meta has changed. If your old theme doesn't work, then you simply adapt.
Doesn't make much of a difference if you already have around 20% damage resistance and CC resistance. It's not like TRs are GFs or GWFs. Most of our defense is not from Tenacity, but from clever positioning and situational awareness.
If you don't like the new weapons, just use your current ones.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Last mod, if I SF'd during stealth, I'd have my stealth bar, now it drains completely
there goes another 50% of the usefulness of Soulforge for TR
My TR is more certainly more tanky now but as it takes much more to finish off anyone the added tankiness is a wash. You will eventually beat the players you would have before but it now takes twice as long. Overall it makes things seem less fast paced and more tedious, which is not a good thing IMO. The best thing the game has was its style and pace of combat.
And I am annoyed that we are going to have a bigger divide in PVP vs PVE specs. I like doing both content but it seems like I will have to pick one and spec accordingly. Kinda wish they would have addressed the OP sent and perma builds first. Then see what pvp was like instead of this huge change.
Don't forget we get two daggers. Way OP
100% uptime of untouchability is nonsense. Nothing worse than being trolled by something that you either cannot see or when you do see it you can't hit it because you are dazed. Okay, well an IV Sent is worse, but the perma stealth is a close second.
I'd much rather fight something that hits hard that I can also hit than some Bilethorn-wielding ghost that I cannot even nick.
Crit builds were there for CWs and GWFs too. GWFs module 2 sentinels in PvP were all CON-DEX, iron vanguard, SF+Vorpal critical builds. Which was the source of such huge spike damage. Crits in PvP needed a nerf.
It takes longer to kill people, yes. Alone. 2v1 focused, it's way faster. Which just means it requires a bit more teamplay and not just "zomfg i faceroll people with one rotation". And before someone kicks in saying "you say that cause you are not a DPS build", no, i use a DPS build on my GWF and used to kill many players in 1 rotation. Still, i think the slower pace is better. The focus of domination is not to kill people, it's to hold nodes. If fights are longer, it's more important to put some strategy in your game and split your team.
The fast paced combat was not a good thing. It could be from a TR point of view to be able to 1 shot people or kill them in few seconds from full health, but for PvP gameplay it was terrible. People Always going for the kill, fighting off-node.
Shocking execution hits for 16-19-21k on tanks, and there are reports of 35k hits through tenacity.
So i think the class still have a way to deal monster damage.
TRs are fine where they are now for PvP. Need probably some love in PvE.
Like it or not, froszzt, you've just admitted that TRs still work, and still can do what they used to do best prior to the patch.
Wut?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
TRs greatly needed a nerf and still do.
Yeah its soo much fun to play against a TR who is hitting you but is permastealth.
Yeah thats fair right?
I know which one I think is OP and 'easy mode'.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I agree all crit builds got a big nerf, again this was almost every TR. We need the crit builds for PvE dps. Now there are going to be much different builds for pvp than pve. meaning you have to gimp one.
I disagree with saying the slower pace is better. I am not talking stomping, the pace goes both ways. Now it seems like everything is more sluggish, not as fun IMO. 2v1 is faster now if you are talking about gwfs. Just because before you needed 3 or more
Anyway to each their own. I'm sure pvp will change again with the next patch.
Read desription of a skill - SE bypass all def (also tenacity) so that's not a bug and the only one good DPS skill of TR nowadays.
From the other side I agree with ppl who posts that perma-stealth is too OP - they should nerf it a bit -for example lose some stealth with every hit.
They should arm us with chopsticks. All will be right in the world again.
I happen to be the 1/10 of the 15K TR population still holding onto my 40% deflect slightly-less-efficient heavy assault combat. Biletrolls are still annoying, GWF used to be infuriating. At least HR can't root me through ITC no more. I'm not in a position to complain about the nerfs really because the hardest hit were the glass cannons.
incoming chopstick nerf
Darn it
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
To put simply..one that doesn't rely heavily on stealth
With the Nerf to Regen and the Poor defensive stat allocation choices the current Best TR build (call it Perm stealth bilethorn if you like, but thats the wrong way to name it) has become an even less skillful choice due to the fact that PoB, now being the norm is completely skill-less
Now I know a lot of you probably don't care about it because you run a "Combat TR" but because of Healing depression Path of Blades is now a really OP ability, since you can't regen the PoB ticks back. I say this has become a skill-less play-style simply because with this patch the TR class has indeed become a gear race. whoevers gear is stronger/ whoever has More HP has a supreme advantage when using pob to those with lesser stats. And with the impact shot nerf, and being that Lashing blade is very hard to land, it's complete lunacy to try to use burst damage as a mean of counter acting path of blades.
So they've reduced us to this
Stack the MOST HP and AP gain you can get
Drop PoB
Wait around till someone dies
if they arent dead you, drop SE
Good game.
No skill, No aiming, No timing, No worries.
I
And this is why I say the class is gimped. If you want to hope to win now, your forced into this type of playstyle with no alternative as a TR vs TR to counter it on top of the issue that it's COMPLETELY SKILL-LESS.
Now some of you may say "Well why don't you just run away from the PoB"
Simple explanation, Our PVP is based on node capture, that means if I want to do the best to help my team I'm going to have to eat all that PoB damage, to capture the node... and Hope my gear is better then his.. because if worse comes to worse and his gear is better then mine. He can just kite all my Melee at will's ITC through my CoS and just wait for PoB to do the dirty work and win for the sole reason that he has more HP then I.
I hope all the people saying we didn't get a gimp enjoy the new play-style
Because IMO, the true nerf, is taking all the fun and skill out of a class.
And even they nerfed us already, I'm all for Cryptic nerfing PoB into oblivion.
Well done man, and then of course the pointlessness of ELO in a small-population game. From the patch notes, let me paste them yet again:
Adjusted Domination PvP queues to throttle matchmaking queuing speeds based on population and current average queue wait times to get the best of matchmaking and reasonable queue times.
O please PoB isn't all it's cut out to be.
I got caught off guard by a PoB TR in a game today and due to him having help took a quick death.
By the end of the game, I killed him regularly and I outscored him by over 2000 points when I was on the losing side
Adapting your gameplay is always > Whining
Nothing needs to be gimped
Edit note: used better grammar
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
PoB overhyped. Too much exaggeration there.
PvP has always been a gear race, whomever's gear is stronger/has more HP always has a supreme advantage in whatever style you play. You're talking as if this is something new, or something strange, or both.
ITC, SS, PoB -- Anyone using this set of encounters has zero active offensive encounters, and has only PoB as a passive offensive tool that goes on for what, 10 seconds? And then a long recharge. If those TRs are using the standard CoS/DF as at-wills, then CoS is basically fluff damage that rapidly drops in DPS once the first 8 charges are gone, and DF is a telegraphed punch you can see coming from a mile away. Provided HP/gear levels are similar you can simply rush to the middle of PoB and start duking it out with Sly Flourish in his face and simply dodge from DF, and that still out DPS the other guy.
At this point, I'm not sure how you mean to counter anything when;
(1) you don't research new tactics
(2) you don't try different builds
(3) you don't try different encounter choices
(4) you don't try different at-will choices
Its just one-long QQ about how you can't seem to find a way to defeat a PoB-build TR.
There are other ways to help the team. Rushing the back nodes is simply one choice out of many. If that is not an option, you can always find a different role/purpose as a TR. If you can't steal the back-node? Fine. Just help your friends with any other combat so you always maintain a 2 node advantage over the other team. It's a slower win than disrupting enemy back nodes, but works nonetheless.
I gave Scary and Lil's 2-man premade a run for their money. They are very good players so I needed some help from at least one other person. They were using the PoB build, two of them as a team. I was with PuGs so no one to really watch my back every time. Still, despite their back-node trolling efforts, I managed kills/deaths pretty much even with them. They'd kill me more often since they were working together, but with as much help from my own team I managed to kill them evenly. Ofcourse, they are excellent players, some of the best, and in a pure 1vs1 things usually went bad for me around 6 times out of 10, but did manage to turn the tables quite often in rest of the cases.
Did all of this with a WK build and 25k HP, too. I'm pretty damned sure they outgeared me in enchantments by 2~3 ranks as well.
So, does that qualify as an anecdote good enough to refute your doom-preaching about the PoB TRs, or do you need me to slay the god of TRs or something?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Taking Tenacity to my advantage, I stacked defense and deflect to 35 and 45 percent respectively, apart from the base 10% resistance and Tenacity gear bonus, bringing my offensive stats to a modest 2.5k on average. The cornerstone of the build is MI ITC combined with the Sharandar Boon Fey Thistle: a proc damage of 400 affected by target's resistance for every deflected hit.
ITC and my 40-45% deflect makes for a good uptime, so much so that permastealth PoB TR are considerably less threat to me because
1. PoB ticks are really negligible, 500 normal damage, 170-250 when deflected, and each time I deflect a PoB tick I reflect more damage.
2. I believe the reflected damage eats through stealth.
3. Physical DoT, to the exception of bleed, procs reflect. CW Conduit of Ice, Magic Missles etc does more damage to them than to me.
4. It's often easy to take out two or three opponents singlehandedly--wait scratch that we weild two daggers--but you get the point.
The hardest part is obtaining Fey Thistle since it's the 5th Sharandar boon.
I'm not the smartest person in here, I'm sure a lot of you could come up with better ideas and better builds than the permastealth rogue. PS: Last I checked Bilethorn is still procing twice on Duelist Flurry. I think it's a bug, but I was hoping somebody could confirm my assumption.