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Suggestion: Buff Guardian Fighter T2 Set bonus
alcibaides415bc
Member Posts: 61 Arc User
Hello there, My in game Character is a GF Conq build "Murica". Although i've never done VT, MC or completed CN, i have played for about 250 hours mostly on my GF.
One of the biggest reasons why GFs are so underpowered, besides the fact that GWF and CW are so vastly superior, is the lack of good T2 sets/ equipment. T2 equipment should be a marked improvement over T1 sets, both in stats and in set bonuses, while providing synergy with certain paragons of that class. I will use CW and GWFs as comparisons on how their equipment provides great synergy with their paragon and /or group mechanics, But i want to introduce what I believe to be the design philosophy behind the T1/T2 sets.
DESIGN PHILOSOPHY OF TIERED SETS: GROUP AND PARAGON SYNERGY
Looking at the Set bonuses for GF tiered one sets, Its seems to me that the set bonuses are intended to boost Control powers, party buffs, and DPS increase of a party. This just so happens to synergize with existing paragons avaliable to the GF. The Knights Captain's set provides nice synergy with the Tactician Paragon, Providing raw damage in the form of 60% power increase, as well as a 25% increase to defense. Combined with an Improved Into the Fray's increase of 5% damage, and improved base DR reduction from Daunting challenge, KC synergizes very well with a tactician GF.
Valiant Warrior set synergizes well with a conquerer build, as a Conq GF is best suited to exploit the Def debuff and still hold aggro due to the greater amount of DPS it is capable of. Stalwart Bulwark works best for Protector Paragons, due to the Shieldmaster Feat and constant activation of Iron warrior. It improves damage at a flat rate, benefiting the ability for protectors to hold aggro due to the weak DPS.
This Design Philosophy holds true, to some extent, in the CW and GWF T sets as well. For CW T2 sets as an example: HV increases party (and own) DPS, SW buffs party, and Magelord buffs control abilities by reducing Cooldown time. GWF is a little weird with Titan and Vigilant warrior set providing similar benefits, but both augment GWF's ability for tanking, which is the main means of control, while AoW provides a great personal DPS buff. Most GWF i see run with AoW, which suggests that the other T2 sets need better set bonuses, But this thread is about the GF.
Comparing the T2 sets of CW and GWF with the T2 set of the GF and its clear whats the problem here:
THE PROBLEM WITH GF T2 SETS: IT SUCKS
Lets look at the T2 set bonuses for GF. First lets look at what is considered the "best" T2 GF set: Timeless hero.
According to Saved81's stats analysis
Valiant's DPS bonus is better for personal dps than Timeless UNLESS your toon is specifically geared and built for maximum recovery/ Cooldown reduction to maximize Timeless proccing. That fact that Valiant provides MORE DPS unless you have a very specific build that maximizes it, means that overall Valiant is still better than Timeless. So even the "best" T2 set is still inferior to a T1 set, unless you have the AD and specific feats and stats to make it useful. T2 sets should be a CLEAR improvement over T1 sets, but for some reason, T2 sets are actually WORSE than T1 sets for GFs. Don't believe me? Compare Knight Captain with High General. 10% Crit severity when you crit vs 60% power and 25% def buff at 25% proccing from ANY power. Assuming an average party Crit rate of 30%, this only adds about a 3% party increase in final damage, Whereas 60% power increase (assuming average power of group being 3k) is an almost 72% increase in both healing and damage of a party (1.92-1.2= .72 assuming damage formula is weapon damage*(1*power/2500)). Nevermind the fact that GF crit maybe 1/4 the time, maybe a little more, but much more randomly than a flat 25% chance of proccing from at wills, encounters, and daillies.
Meanwhile Grand regent's 20% of Def power increase is better than SB's damage buff, but It still lags behind Knights Captain or Valiant since Grand Regent doesn't give any power stats at all, and good luck holding aggro with bad DPS.
SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVING T2 GEAR
So what to do about the very crappy T2 sets available for GFs? Well, buff the T2 sets according to the mentioned design philosophy for gear sets.
My suggestions are as follows:
Timeless Hero: Change set bonus from plus 350 Crit to plus 350 Power, Change 2peice set bonus from 450 deflect to an offensive stat. Changing this set bonus would improve DPS of a GF past the value of a valiant bonus, assuming reckless warrior also applies to powers given by gear buffs. Even if it doesn't, Power bonus benefits GF DPS far more than Crit does, as we do not have any feats that increase crit severity, or crit rate to make a Crit bonus useful compared to power.
High General: change 4 piece set bonus from 10% crit severity when you crit hit, to 15% crit severity and 10%movement speed increase every time you use an encounter. This harmonizes very well with the Tactician paragon, as Into the Fray can be used to clear dungeons faster, and combined with a 5% damage increase and far more predicable proc rate, it can actually be just as good as KC set, if not better as it will decrease time for dungeon runs.
Grand Regent: (this one requires more creativity) Change 4 piece set bonus to a Reflect damage bonus, something like reflect 5% damage you take and 25% increased Threat generation. This synergizes very well with the Defense oriented stats of GR, and the protector paragon tree and Knights valor. This also helps solve the problem of aggro management for protectors given their poor dps, and Helps make viable a Pure tank GF build.
These suggestions are just ideas, but they try to follow the Design Philosophy i outlined earlier in this post. Hopefully, Neverwinter developers read this and implement changes to the GF tier 2 sets. Currently, there is no incentive for GFs to farm T2 dungeons except for AD since their T2 sets suck. Buffing T2 sets would help make the leap from T1 to T2.5 dungeons more managable, and provides a reason for GFs to Grind for gear. Right now, the KC T1 set is the best set avaliable, and really there is no reason to grind for any other armor type except maybe GG for PVP, but even then for PVE KC is so much better than any avaliable sets for GF.
GF needs some love, and the Class buff for GFs helps, but they need a T2 set buff/reinvention in order to be truly viable, and desirable to play
One of the biggest reasons why GFs are so underpowered, besides the fact that GWF and CW are so vastly superior, is the lack of good T2 sets/ equipment. T2 equipment should be a marked improvement over T1 sets, both in stats and in set bonuses, while providing synergy with certain paragons of that class. I will use CW and GWFs as comparisons on how their equipment provides great synergy with their paragon and /or group mechanics, But i want to introduce what I believe to be the design philosophy behind the T1/T2 sets.
DESIGN PHILOSOPHY OF TIERED SETS: GROUP AND PARAGON SYNERGY
Looking at the Set bonuses for GF tiered one sets, Its seems to me that the set bonuses are intended to boost Control powers, party buffs, and DPS increase of a party. This just so happens to synergize with existing paragons avaliable to the GF. The Knights Captain's set provides nice synergy with the Tactician Paragon, Providing raw damage in the form of 60% power increase, as well as a 25% increase to defense. Combined with an Improved Into the Fray's increase of 5% damage, and improved base DR reduction from Daunting challenge, KC synergizes very well with a tactician GF.
Valiant Warrior set synergizes well with a conquerer build, as a Conq GF is best suited to exploit the Def debuff and still hold aggro due to the greater amount of DPS it is capable of. Stalwart Bulwark works best for Protector Paragons, due to the Shieldmaster Feat and constant activation of Iron warrior. It improves damage at a flat rate, benefiting the ability for protectors to hold aggro due to the weak DPS.
This Design Philosophy holds true, to some extent, in the CW and GWF T sets as well. For CW T2 sets as an example: HV increases party (and own) DPS, SW buffs party, and Magelord buffs control abilities by reducing Cooldown time. GWF is a little weird with Titan and Vigilant warrior set providing similar benefits, but both augment GWF's ability for tanking, which is the main means of control, while AoW provides a great personal DPS buff. Most GWF i see run with AoW, which suggests that the other T2 sets need better set bonuses, But this thread is about the GF.
Comparing the T2 sets of CW and GWF with the T2 set of the GF and its clear whats the problem here:
THE PROBLEM WITH GF T2 SETS: IT SUCKS
Lets look at the T2 set bonuses for GF. First lets look at what is considered the "best" T2 GF set: Timeless hero.
According to Saved81's stats analysis
Valiant's DPS bonus is better for personal dps than Timeless UNLESS your toon is specifically geared and built for maximum recovery/ Cooldown reduction to maximize Timeless proccing. That fact that Valiant provides MORE DPS unless you have a very specific build that maximizes it, means that overall Valiant is still better than Timeless. So even the "best" T2 set is still inferior to a T1 set, unless you have the AD and specific feats and stats to make it useful. T2 sets should be a CLEAR improvement over T1 sets, but for some reason, T2 sets are actually WORSE than T1 sets for GFs. Don't believe me? Compare Knight Captain with High General. 10% Crit severity when you crit vs 60% power and 25% def buff at 25% proccing from ANY power. Assuming an average party Crit rate of 30%, this only adds about a 3% party increase in final damage, Whereas 60% power increase (assuming average power of group being 3k) is an almost 72% increase in both healing and damage of a party (1.92-1.2= .72 assuming damage formula is weapon damage*(1*power/2500)). Nevermind the fact that GF crit maybe 1/4 the time, maybe a little more, but much more randomly than a flat 25% chance of proccing from at wills, encounters, and daillies.
Meanwhile Grand regent's 20% of Def power increase is better than SB's damage buff, but It still lags behind Knights Captain or Valiant since Grand Regent doesn't give any power stats at all, and good luck holding aggro with bad DPS.
SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVING T2 GEAR
So what to do about the very crappy T2 sets available for GFs? Well, buff the T2 sets according to the mentioned design philosophy for gear sets.
My suggestions are as follows:
Timeless Hero: Change set bonus from plus 350 Crit to plus 350 Power, Change 2peice set bonus from 450 deflect to an offensive stat. Changing this set bonus would improve DPS of a GF past the value of a valiant bonus, assuming reckless warrior also applies to powers given by gear buffs. Even if it doesn't, Power bonus benefits GF DPS far more than Crit does, as we do not have any feats that increase crit severity, or crit rate to make a Crit bonus useful compared to power.
High General: change 4 piece set bonus from 10% crit severity when you crit hit, to 15% crit severity and 10%movement speed increase every time you use an encounter. This harmonizes very well with the Tactician paragon, as Into the Fray can be used to clear dungeons faster, and combined with a 5% damage increase and far more predicable proc rate, it can actually be just as good as KC set, if not better as it will decrease time for dungeon runs.
Grand Regent: (this one requires more creativity) Change 4 piece set bonus to a Reflect damage bonus, something like reflect 5% damage you take and 25% increased Threat generation. This synergizes very well with the Defense oriented stats of GR, and the protector paragon tree and Knights valor. This also helps solve the problem of aggro management for protectors given their poor dps, and Helps make viable a Pure tank GF build.
These suggestions are just ideas, but they try to follow the Design Philosophy i outlined earlier in this post. Hopefully, Neverwinter developers read this and implement changes to the GF tier 2 sets. Currently, there is no incentive for GFs to farm T2 dungeons except for AD since their T2 sets suck. Buffing T2 sets would help make the leap from T1 to T2.5 dungeons more managable, and provides a reason for GFs to Grind for gear. Right now, the KC T1 set is the best set avaliable, and really there is no reason to grind for any other armor type except maybe GG for PVP, but even then for PVE KC is so much better than any avaliable sets for GF.
GF needs some love, and the Class buff for GFs helps, but they need a T2 set buff/reinvention in order to be truly viable, and desirable to play
Post edited by alcibaides415bc on
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Comments
Nonono, this is all wrong. Power contributes to "weapon damage", at a ratio of 25:1. Let's say you're a guardian fighter (there are none in game, but you can see their weapons and armors in the auction house very cheap), and you use one of those ancient grand knight's longswords that cost 50k ad in the AH, you have a base weapon damage of 537-656, then let us say you have 2500 power, 2500/25=100, so your weapon damage becomes 637-756, or 16.76% more base weapon damage. The actual damage is much more complicated because different encounters are affected differently by weapon damage and blah blah blah.
By the way I have had threads and posts about gf deleted, I think maybe because the class doesn't exist on live yet even though I hear people talk about them I never seen a shield wielding character before on live and I've played since mod 1. I suggest you just let cryptic work out this nonexistent class and play dc, gwf, or cw, the only three classes that matter at end game.
I'm using this formula here, which is linked to a PW neverwinter thread as a reference. I assumed it's right but there are other people who claim as you say, that power is a weapon damage additive. Frankly there's a lot of misinformation on stats calculations out there, sometimes from feat/power description as well.
true i'll test it out. You are right though, i feel like i am the only GF that plays on live. Most of my Neverwinter friends say that there aren't any GFs that can hold aggro and tank worth a ****. Despite the fact that I specced my build to do max DPS and if i'm not careful i get wasted by the mobs i supposedly can tank. I also noticed that GWF sents IV build are much more tanky than i can ever be (more HP, more DPS, plus lifesteal, how does this make sense?), so how am i a tank when the DPS offtank can out tank me in every statistic except MAYBE aoe threat generation?
Without going into deep theorycrafting and so, isn't that so ironic to say that KC is the best set (since it makes you more fragile than a Timeless Hero who is already pretty fragile despite ~3k Defense provided) while you point the ridiculous usefulness of GF in the role they are supposed to do ? Guardian fighter's name means what it means : a freaking guardian that freaking fight to freaking proctect his freaking mates, so basically, if you turn it a buff station we'll have some problems with Wizard of the coast to rename them into BF (Buff Fighter)*.
Let's move to your set changes ideas, i like how the Timeless hero set looks like (or looked like) the AoW set for a while when the duration of 4/4 AoW's buff was too short to get a permanent 3 stack uptime. Now TH has been fixed and AoW buff duration has been increased, it stacks regardless of ennemies hit but only on Encounter activation and the duration is still short so we can't maintain a fair uptime. So why not copycatting AoW for the TH set to make a 4part bonus that provides a special buff once you stack 3 times the buff ? After all, Cryptic seems to make many crossroads between GF and GWF like paragon path for exemple.
However, i'm against moving the 2p bonus to an offensive stat. Both crit and recovery will make this 2p bonus a "too much" one since the 4p is based on crit and the set itself provides already a lot of recovery, certainly not power since Reckless warrior will double the amount making it a +900power and create a mass double 2p itemization for Conq. GFs. Armor Pen. is already the HG 2p bonus and i think we are not ready to have some sub stats like combat advantage bonus or guard/stamina regen in our sets (maybe with T3, w&s).
Concerning the HG set, i've never found it attractive so i can't really tell about this. Hard to say so ... And for the Grand Regent set, i'm using it but i'm pretty confused. I like Regen (1k5 atm) stat but it gives too much defense but this set gives a fair counterpart of defense stacking by giving power equal to 20% of defense, it's not great (with 5k def i gain roughly as much power as only the TH armor provides) but still with 6K power i feel enough confidant so i don't go any further and i don't want to anyway since the last time i went deeply with a set : it has been reworked and yes i'm talking about Stalwart Bulwark.
The problem of T2 set and why T1 are considered mostly better than them is imo because they provide too much unneeded stats and that's my next point.
I'm always saying to friends and guildies that the problem is not particularly in gear or GF's templates but in stats itself. Beeing a tank means that you have to stack much more defensive stats to a certain point compared to other class in order to soak damages better but the problem is there : even fragile and/or class that do not stack that much defensive stats are able to stand there and survive the same way. And why ? Because stats are to be honest a humongous load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Every stats except maybe Power and HP are submitted to the same diminishing return rate which means that above 3k of any stats you are starting to waste further invested points. Our guard meter can't be buffed that much neither our deflection severity, we suffer from diminishing returns too soon and even worse we aren't favored regarding defensive stats : no matter if you are CW, DC, GWF, TR, HR or GF, one defense point is one defense point as 1 AC = 1 AC. But that's not the subject and this minding is on progress, i don't find it enough relevant to expose it and claim it as a tangible fact.
I'm a using personnal experience (i've cleaned the most if not whole content of the game as GF except epic DV, i'm thinking about doing this one for my 1 year aniversary in NWO to mark the occasion) and some great threads such as this[/b] and a graphic found in this thread here[/b].
My point of view may have a lack of accuracy, i indeed play since open beta (as my register date prove it right under my avatar) but i've stopped playing NWO from early October to early January but except few balances and debugs, it hasn't changed that much. Not to mention i'm still playing WoW aside NWO both at a semi-hard core player level in term of class comprehension and "mastering" so my definition of a tank is clearly influenced.
Bye.
*I've made the best joke so far, turning GF (girlfriend) into BF (boyfriend). Oh wait, does that mean i'm <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ? Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> i'm seriously confused.
P.S : By the way, you were asking about power doubling with Reckless warrior feat for your 4/4 TH new bonus, know that power from buffs isn't buffed by this feat (e.g Power from Ioun Stone isn't doubled, it actually made me gain a lot of power by knowing this a while ago) but only direct bonus like the 4p effect of Grand Regent set or even boons.
Edit : And you're right about Sents GWF, they are actually better than us in many points except their obvious lack of decent marking system and the class feat we have to boost threat of marked targets. Plus they don't need to respec' in order to get the so wanted interrupt for MC and VT. ^^