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Heroic/Paragon Feat Point Split: Wait, What?!
cenobite451
Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 87
Seriously - what bright spark came up with that one?
More significantly, can anyone point to a single useful purpose it serves? Like, at all? Given that the Paragon feats are gated behind the expenditure of 20 feat points on Heroics anyway, I mean. Why in god's name would they gate feats backwards?
More significantly, can anyone point to a single useful purpose it serves? Like, at all? Given that the Paragon feats are gated behind the expenditure of 20 feat points on Heroics anyway, I mean. Why in god's name would they gate feats backwards?
Post edited by cenobite451 on
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I get being unable to start spending on Paragon feats until a certain level; that wasn't the question. What I'm trying to figure out is, why do we get locked out of Heroic feats past that point?
Heroic feats tend to make your entire character more effective in general.
Paragon Feats tend to make specific playstyles and strategies more effective.
The ultimate point is to make you put consideration into what you do and don't want to benefit from. Just making this thread alone it proves how in many cases the heroic feats can and do look more attractive that the paragon feats in some cases because they could be stacked to be more powerful than the paragon feats in general effectiveness.
It all comes down to balancing the game.
Excerpts: Paragon Paths - 4th Edition Player's Handbook
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
But I suppose I'll have to do my best to accept the "balance" explanation, if only to mitigate my own frustration...
Whoops - ninja'd.
But, speaking of the source, you'll note that you are in no way barred from buying new Heroic-tier feats when you hit Paragon levels (or Epic, for that matter). It's just that Paragon-tier feats are typically more powerful. Which is a design that makes sense to me...
It really doesn't matter what the source books say because they are only guidelines for the MMO. MMO's require much more balancing than the tabletop game or co-op games require. As such the game is based on 4E but has numerous aspects changed for the sake of game balance.
It's not actually too bad to have some feats partially filled; I've done that on certain feats and have no regrets. The key is to match your feat distribution to your playstyle, even if that results in some feats being partially filled. Question, though: When did you start playing this character? If you created this character before Dec. 5th, you do have a single free respec (due to the major class changes from that day's release of module 2) that you can use if you want.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
I know people who'd fight you with knives over that statement.
I wasn't advocating a direct translation, though. Any game that tried to faithfully emulate tabletop mechanics would be doomed from the start. I was just responding to eldarth, and pointing out the differing (and, in my opinion, much more logical) design philosophy while I was at it.
It's just a wall I never expected to come across. Of all the MMOs I've played - and there have been more than a few - I've never seen reverse-gating like this.
And going over my power trees again, I'm not sure I see any indication that Heroic feats are more useful or powerful than Paragon feats, as a general thing. If there's a balance concern behind the split at all, I have to think it's more about preventing humans from getting three extra Paragon feat points via re-spec. Which I suppose is an explanation, and that's better than the no explanation I started out with, but I still find the design decision a bit... dubious.
I'm a big fan of what Cryptic has done. One of my major issues, though, is the handling of the 'paragon feats'. Namely, the inability to buy heroic feats with paragon points, and the breakdown of the paragon feats into 'subclass' paths.
The first is what the op here is addressing. So to be relevant, YES, op, I feel it's silly not to be able to buy backwards, so to speak.
But I also feel that the paragon feature paths are an unnecessary hindrance to player customization. The best and quickest argument I have against the breakdown, is that they have effectively limited every class to having a PvE focused path, a PvP focused path, and a nigh-useless niche path. They make balancing far more difficult, as well, since it is so hardline with the capstones that it creates very different classes within classes, some which aren't so well thought out.
My suggestion is actually very small: allow players to purchase paragon feats the same as heroic, with no paths, with the simple restriction that only ONE capstone can be bought.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters