Reasons why not to panic nerf the Hunter Ranger

tearloch

With the new Hunter Ranger class out, and new paragons, theres lots to get used to. The old tactics of PVP are not in play anymore and you cannot reley soley on one person to carry the team anymore. Now there have ben some complaints about the HR that i would like to address in an effort to prevent the OVER NERF of this wondrous versatile, fast paced and balanced class.

Complaints:
The roots bind me durring ITC and Unstopabble, this must be a bug and fixed at once!
- binding roots and keeping distance is the primary way that keeps a ranger alive. If a heavy tanky enemy can close distance with no way to root them back, you might as well type /killme as a Hunter Ranger.

HR has too many Abilities
-Each ability only is ever put at its full potential by mixing both melee and ranged powers. A bad HR is one who solely relies on only ranged/melee/ or one particular power to win in a fight.

The Aimed shot ability does too much damage. It should not be able to 2 shot GWFs.
-Aimed shot is a sniping at-will. It has a long and very noticable green partical effect when charging up. If hit at all by an attack or the smallest of DoTs, the Aimed shot at will cannot be casted.

HRs are OP and kill everyone.
-HRs are OP ONLY if your team refuses to focus on down. it takes only 1 good CW or TR to kill an HR in 2-3 seconds. HRs counter meleers. They bind them down while DPSing them or letting another teammate free cast on them. CWs who have several control abilities can control HRs and kill them with ease, if done correctly. A good entangle,ice rays, and an avalanche on tab should do the trick. TRs also have a fair chance fighting HRs, deft strike to close distance and break free from binding roots (if the target is far enough to break them) or the new paragon encounter to mark, and break free/close distance can coutner HRs. This is not speculation. I have fought some good TRs and CWs who could do just this.

Summery, HRs can be taken down easily, just put the effort together to take them down together as a team or a small duo. HRs have amazing burst DPS but can have one of the lowest defence/deflect/HP of any other class.

P.S. The test server has ben opened for 2 months at which point you could level a HR like i have done, or simply go in to PVP against a few HRs. If you did not even bother to check out the test server to learn the tricks of the new class/paragons then you have no right to complain. Especially with the binding roots during ITC/Unstopaple which have been on the test server since the beginning.

w4spl3g

tearloch wrote: »

With the new Hunter Ranger class out, and new paragons, theres lots to get used to. The old tactics of PVP are not in play anymore and you cannot reley soley on one person to carry the team anymore. Now there have ben some complaints about the HR that i would like to address in an effort to prevent the OVER NERF of this wondrous versatile, fast paced and balanced class.

Complaints:
The roots bind me durring ITC and Unstopabble, this must be a bug and fixed at once!
- binding roots and keeping distance is the primary way that keeps a ranger alive. If a heavy tanky enemy can close distance with no way to root them back, you might as well type /killme as a Hunter Ranger.

HR has too many Abilities
-Each ability only is ever put at its full potential by mixing both melee and ranged powers. A bad HR is one who solely relies on only ranged/melee/ or one particular power to win in a fight.

The Aimed shot ability does too much damage. It should not be able to 2 shot GWFs.
-Aimed shot is a sniping at-will. It has a long and very noticable green partical effect when charging up. If hit at all by an attack or the smallest of DoTs, the Aimed shot at will cannot be casted.

HRs are OP and kill everyone.
-HRs are OP ONLY if your team refuses to focus on down. it takes only 1 good CW or TR to kill an HR in 2-3 seconds. HRs counter meleers. They bind them down while DPSing them or letting another teammate free cast on them. CWs who have several control abilities can control HRs and kill them with ease, if done correctly. A good entangle,ice rays, and an avalanche on tab should do the trick. TRs also have a fair chance fighting HRs, deft strike to close distance and break free from binding roots (if the target is far enough to break them) or the new paragon encounter to mark, and break free/close distance can coutner HRs. This is not speculation. I have fought some good TRs and CWs who could do just this.

Summery, HRs can be taken down easily, just put the effort together to take them down together as a team or a small duo. HRs have amazing burst DPS but can have one of the lowest defence/deflect/HP of any other class.

P.S. The test server has ben opened for 2 months at which point you could level a HR like i have done, or simply go in to PVP against a few HRs. If you did not even bother to check out the test server to learn the tricks of the new class/paragons then you have no right to complain. Especially with the binding roots during ITC/Unstopaple which have been on the test server since the beginning.

I'm a new player, but having a ranged dps, not even a tank, needing 2+ people to focus them down or they wipe your whole team sounds completely broken to me; especially one that "counters meleers". That's a direct quote from your completely illogical fanboy defense of a class I haven't even seen.

manholio

Enjoy it till the next big patch, tearloch. It will be nerfed. Just ask any TR that's been around for any length of time...

charononus

The roots are being called a bug now by the dev's. Too lazy to get the quote.

rollingonit

charononus wrote: »

The roots are being called a bug now by the dev's. Too lazy to get the quote.

lol

/10char

rhoric

Just stop it about the nerfs. All these posts about nerfs. The HR got nerfed on preview not even 2 weeks after it went on preview. It was a huge nerf and now you want more cause you get killed. No. No No and NO. The nerfs are what are killing classes so people don't want to play them. Just leave the classes alone and just play the game.

todesfaelle

w4spl3g wrote: »

I'm a new player, but having a ranged dps, not even a tank, needing 2+ people to focus them down or they wipe your whole team sounds completely broken to me; especially one that "counters meleers". That's a direct quote from your completely illogical fanboy defense of a class I haven't even seen.

Not sure how you're trying to approach HR's, or why you need 2 people to kill one, but they shouldn't be too much of a problem for the older classes. The thing is, HR's, like Control Wizards, have a severe lack of CC immunity skills. So I'm not sure why your team needs 2+ people to focus one HR when you can just have your skilled CW's choke them and stun lock them, or the Iron Vanguard GWF's to send them prone for a group gank. Heck, TR's can one shot HR's.

It's a new learning curve for everyone. People are having a hard time dueling an HR in 1 vs. 1 because they've yet to experience the many ways an HR can be killed. It's just a new learning curve. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the class gets nerfed due to complaints from the people who refused to adapt to their new opponents.

pankolino

What this game is needing is a proper pvp games. Everyone (almost everyone) gets 2-3 shoted in this pvp. Reason for that is that players need to be tough in order to do dungeons. But they are then mega killers in pvp. You get stunlocked and die in like 3 secs.

I think they need to make a patch, so when you enter a pvp game all your damage is only 50%, maybe 30% of your total. That way you have longer fights, and ability to do something when attacked, not just die in 5 seconds.

No nerf needed, just make fights last longer by making damage lower in pvp.

ottoarc

i found out that actually hr is not really that OP at all..in a team fight i have nothing much to say because is a team right ?? some are good and some are bad...ok but for 1v1..i found that HR melee is a joke compare to TR or GWP...GWP just kick your butt easily with take down...and tr...just simply stealth and lashing blade and you left about half or even low hp and a few hit than your dead..for ranged damage cw just outdamage HR..OK ANYWAY THIS IS JUST MY OPINION DUN SAY BAD THING ABOUT IT OK...MY OPINION ONLY...how about someone else come and give some idea...

mutantdemocracy

tearloch wrote: »

The roots bind me durring ITC and Unstopabble, this must be a bug and fixed at once!
- binding roots and keeping distance is the primary way that keeps a ranger alive. If a heavy tanky enemy can close distance with no way to root them back, you might as well type /killme as a Hunter Ranger.

It's pretty annoying that GWF and GF are almost made completely ineffective due to a single encounter on a relatively low cooldown. Besides that, HR has one massive jump back and 5+ mini-dashes that will let you dodge hits. Relying on the roots for survival just means you really need to put your bow away and swap to melee from time to time.

tearloch wrote: »

HR has too many Abilities
-Each ability only is ever put at its full potential by mixing both melee and ranged powers. A bad HR is one who solely relies on only ranged/melee/ or one particular power to win in a fight.

This should be kept as is, but some melee abilities need a bit of a buff to actually be useful. Part of that is how badly your mini-dashes mix with melee strikes, sometimes having your HR decide not to attack after a dash.

tearloch wrote: »

The Aimed shot ability does too much damage. It should not be able to 2 shot GWFs.
-Aimed shot is a sniping at-will. It has a long and very noticable green partical effect when charging up. If hit at all by an attack or the smallest of DoTs, the Aimed shot at will cannot be casted.

If roots no longer continue through CC ignore abilities, then it's fine to leave Aimed Shot as is. The big weakness to Aimed Shot is someone who's going to harass you. It should be rewarding to shoot from cover. I'd like it if it couldn't 1 shot people at full/high health, though. I feel like it should leave you with at least 3% of your HP if you're above 80% HP.

tearloch wrote: »

HRs are OP and kill everyone.
-HRs are OP ONLY if your team refuses to focus on down. it takes only 1 good CW or TR to kill an HR in 2-3 seconds. HRs counter meleers. They bind them down while DPSing them or letting another teammate free cast on them. CWs who have several control abilities can control HRs and kill them with ease, if done correctly. A good entangle,ice rays, and an avalanche on tab should do the trick. TRs also have a fair chance fighting HRs, deft strike to close distance and break free from binding roots (if the target is far enough to break them) or the new paragon encounter to mark, and break free/close distance can coutner HRs. This is not speculation. I have fought some good TRs and CWs who could do just this.

HRs will be completely fine if they don't let vines persist through CC immunity. Once that's gone, every class has a decent enough chance at taking them out.

kidbs

Without roots GWFs will be curbstomping everyone. It's the only thing right now that keeps the ridiculous sentinel GWFs at bay. People should be up in arms over that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. A tank that can solo hold a point, crit for 15k+ with their encounters, and other than ranger roots can't be kited. Give me a freaking break.

obsidiancran3

charononus wrote: »

The roots are being called a bug now by the dev's. Too lazy to get the quote.

Great because it is a bug.

As long as they fix the bug(s) and then wait to see how things go it will be fine.

People need to learn how to deal with HRs in PvP, along with all the other dynamic changes caused by module 2. Which is why fixing bugs and leaving everything else alone is the best course of action.

caexar

The issue with the rooting isn't that it is key to the rangers survival, its that it is clearly imbalanced. Statements about the sentinels and gfs being nigh unkillable are not taking the opposite end of the spectrum into consideration. A ranger with hindering shot, binding arrow, marauders escape, and aimed shot slotted can kill these gwfs without even taking a hit. No chance for escape, no chance for retaliation with what is otherwise meant to be the hardest types of character to kill. This is wrong.
As for relying on rooting solely, maybe explore other ways to play the ranger to survive, there are tons. If you can't then there are other classes.

ikeepit3hunna

remeber. the HRs that were lvl 60 in the first few days are the crazies like me with high enchants and what not. your running into fully geared hrs as probly a 10-11k GS character and complaining their OP because your out geared. HR are far from overpowered. if you don't have g-pvorp and not a full t2 set or cn set your not going to hit that much damage. also u melt faster then a cw when cced. on my equally geared tr/gf/gwf ive done pvp and rangers didn't pose me much of an issue. but on my own ranger that's geared up i have dominated quite alot due to GEAR. the class itself and its mechanics are balanced.

godlysoul1

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

remeber. the HRs that were lvl 60 in the first few days are the crazies like me with high enchants and what not. your running into fully geared hrs as probly a 10-11k GS character and complaining their OP because your out geared. HR are far from overpowered. if you don't have g-pvorp and not a full t2 set or cn set your not going to hit that much damage. also u melt faster then a cw when cced. on my equally geared tr/gf/gwf ive done pvp and rangers didn't pose me much of an issue. but on my own ranger that's geared up i have dominated quite alot due to GEAR. the class itself and its mechanics are balanced.

I agree with this. Also with respect to binding going through immunities, as a sent GWF I believe binds should work though things like unstoppable. HR would be way too easy to kill without it. Either way, with frontline surge I get a ranged prone skill that can work pretty far away without much way to anticipate it. Plus whenever I don't have roots I easily sprint and at-will close the gap to any ranger. I have never had any trouble fighting any ranger on it so far.

Also everyone is complaining about how OP GWF is after this update. This class is designed to hopefully be able to counter that. Even if this does become OP against GWF, I wont mind it because GWF is already so strong against everyone else. Plus there is Elven Battle Enchantment if it starts becoming too much of an issue.

rabbinicus

w4spl3g wrote: »

I'm a new player, but having a ranged dps, not even a tank, needing 2+ people to focus them down or they wipe your whole team sounds completely broken to me; especially one that "counters meleers". That's a direct quote from your completely illogical fanboy defense of a class I haven't even seen.

I'm not really following this as an issue.
HR's have great ranged DPS (less than CW's and specced TR's) and can do some solid melee DPS (less than TR's, GWF's, and specced GF's), and are slightly less squishy than TR's (except those with defense/deflect stacked), but have even more easy counters than permastealth TR's do. They can be taken down easily by skilled players, and as with all things PvP it's great when you have two teams of skilled players going at it.

kalspiro

Sorry, but immobilize should not be counted toward CC immunity. Under a root you can still act, you simply can't move. If you're a melee that doesn't mean a lot, but it's still a thing. It's the only thing that really evens a playing field.

fondlez

No one competent cares about the damage of this class. We'll all figure something out in that respect, just like we always have with any class. Damage is just damage, it can be tuned, mitigated and distributed around, and most importantly of all, it always has a context. Look at DC's, they probably have or had the hardest hitting aoe abilities in PvP and terrifying DoTs (or certainly did pre-Feywild), yet no one complains about them because it is very easy to counter on that class.

But to have a huge duration, super short cooldown, ranged ability that penetrates all CC-immunities, including the core mechanics of TR and GWF, that's just crazy talk. Especially for GWF, there is literally nothing they can do to counter that ability. They are just a big health pool waiting to be zeroed out.

As indicated by the devs, this is clearly a bug. So, there's no point even discussing that issue.

In fact, that issue is a huge distraction. It makes us all focus on the wrong things about the value of a new class in group PvP or PvE in multiple contexts.

shadow5930

unconfirmed as it's anecotal evidence (I know I spelled that wrong): Mighty Leap will break grasping roots. Shot a GWF not in unstoppable with hindering shot. They mighty leap to me, the roots were gone. no pull back, nothing. They didn't dodge it (haha! a GWF dodging! ) So that might be something for those whom are in the realm of testing could look into?

caexar

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?547501-Ranger-s-CC-is-not-breaking-by-GWFs-unstoppable&p=6735701&viewfull=1

Developer confirmed. It will be fixed. Sorry to the rangers who relied solely upon it.

munkey81

I dont mind they are fixing it all, cool.

What I find hilarious, is TR's have been complaining for a long a$$ time that ITC is constantly being overrun by Roar, and just about every other CC ability constantly. Yet...no fix

But holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> boys the new class has something you dont like, nerf it!

caexar

Not necessarily a nerf munkey more than fixing it to work proper like methinks. There will no doubt be much QQing afterwards from the archer rangers about being too easy to kill in combat now and all that, while at the same time the dedicated TR's and GWF's will be grinning whilst sharpening their blades to dish out some well deserved payback upon them

psycobrabilly

I do not play a HR and have no intention of ever playing one. IMO do not nerf them. sure their roots hold up my TR and GWF a bit, but when I do catch up to them they die pretty fast.

tektro

put a rogue or 2 on HR headhunting duty and that's that. give it time ppl need to adapt, and they hate doing so. was predictable imo.
meant to happen when classes are introduced.