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So out of GWF and GF who has better survival in PVP?
eternalin
Member Posts: 7 Arc User
And who is all around better for PVP? Now I know skill and gear get taken into account, but just in general? I love both classes but being a more pvp centric player I wanted to know which I should level to 60 first? Thanks...
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The reason is that Guard on a GF is basically like paper against focussed fire and cannot be improved in any meaningful way, as well as being easier to be CC'd with certain skills. Without a Guard, GF can never be as tanky as a GWF.
That said, GF has other strengths. In PvP, they are knockdown or knockout (of objectives) machines. This makes them extremely useful in Domination, especially high level endgame (premade vs premade) PvP. They are also require far less gear than GWFs to be highly effective in both PvP and PvE. Finally, in PvE, they are much more in demand than GWFs at this time, making them much easier to gear up, mainly because any GF at any time has consistent aggro control (ability to enable or disable aggro) against both single target and aoe targets. GWFs can aggro but almost entirely rely on being overgeared and/or using specific specs to do it consistently.
So, it is a question of what you want. However, you should not underestimate the difficulty of gearing up any class these days in NW, but especially a GWF and, most of all, for high level endgame PvP (which requires a lot more gearing than PvE).
On the plus side, trickster rogues have an alternate gearing path in the form of Gauntlgrym gear. The Gauntlgrym trickster rogue gear is very good on its own merits, but it's even better in how it enables the permanent stealth strategy. Permastealth rogues are very useful in PvP, and with a lot of patience, they can even solo a few dungeons.
Taking a break from Neverwinter indefinitely...
Guard isn't strictly "total immune", it's very easy to get flank when facing a team, you can't block every direction all at once. Even if you weren't flank and has the Guard-improving Indomitable Warrior set, the Guard will still get easily torn down within a couple of secs.
In a 1v1 scenario, sure, GF may (arguably) have more of an edge than GWF considering the massive amount of damage you can dispense between stunlock and Knight's Challenge. But NW PvP isn't about 1v1, as much as you have several stuns at your disposal to fend off multiple targets, ultimately your lack of mobility and lack of anti-CC aside from a single Daily and puny Guard render you far less effective than GWF, who can shrug off all CC and most of the damage with very little effort, a sprint to get him out of trouble if timed well and significant damage without needing the likes of Knight's Challenge, which is a double edged sword.
That said, GF is far from completely useless in PvP, provided that you have good team co-ord, his stuns can still provide amazing support for your team and you can still dispense good single target damage assuming you don't get CC'd.
And I suppose Guard is actually alright before you hit lvl.60.
On top of that you can be CC'd through Guard, e.g. CW's Icy Rays and Ray of Frost or GF's Terrifying Impact, and it is trivial for a TR to tear down a Guard with a few Impact Shots or eat through it with Duelist's Flurry at any gear level. You can also be knocked down from behind while attacked from the front by a Shard using CW. This is one of the reasons why GF's are rarely left alone against TRs (or CWs) in premades - against an experienced TR/CW who makes no mistakes, your chances of holding an objective are lower than a GWF.
In short: Unstoppable is completely CC immune and can be triggered to break out of CC (most, if not all) much like TR's Impossible to Catch.
And you need to be VERY well geared (and specced to Crit) in order to guarantee a kill combo at lvl.60, and pray that there aren't any nice helpful CW around to provide you with a little "lift".
The GF terrifying impact can also knock down an unstoppable GWF. It seems to be the 1 daily that can drop anyone, anything. Even ITC rogues.
For my 2 cents on the original topci: GWF tends to live longer. a GF with a good team is scary. A GWF can sometimes live through a full team assault, depending on player/gear.
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But it is a really one way build, if u go that route ur gameplay style is pretty fixed.
On Gwf more flexible when go sent.
I love playing GF, however, is GF that bad?
If u never intend to fight with any legit premade or people with rank 8+ or perfects. In that case any build GF can still be viable.
i can agree that gwf is very good, and strong. but the game is not about 1 x 1 right.
gwf even with the paragon change can still be canceled on PvP by GFs and DCs.
GFs still control the node better than anyone, and a good tanky gf won't ahve problem to keep trolling with any GWF on 1 x 1 for the node.
strong tanky DCs the same thing, and some rogues also can endure "1x1" gwfs for like 1 hour without any parts dying.
i still don't understand the concept of 1 x 1 people in this game has, explore gwfs weakness and play the objective of the game, when you see how fragile the nature of gwf is to control a node against certain classes you will see that nerfing the class would make it very weak and useless in pvp.
the way it is right now, on important premades, 2 medium tank gwfs can make a premade with 2 top gwfs lose with no problem.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
It is a clear to see when u compare pre mod 2 and post mod 2 GF as long as we are not talking about a bunker build type GF.
When u build pure bunker, you actually get buff because the new paragon choice and artifact change make u even tankier and as a matter of fact: Immortal.
The people that claim that GF are dead( people like me) simply find that the hybrid build we have been following is no longer good, as in we can still do well in some medium level match against a not so geared/skilled/coordinated team. And even u say u just have the power to build a hybrid GF that works in top lvl premade, before I even ask u for your build, I am gonna ask the rest of my team why take u other than a GWF in Mod 2?
Hybrid GF actually receive really little gain from the Mod 2 change for lots of reason, I don't wanna write it down as for now since I am tired, but they are all quite statistic. Other class/build simply benefit more from the patch, and again GWF simply gets buff.
GF is not like bad now, it is just u either go full tank, or why take a non-full tank GF over a sent GWF?
So let me correct for the rest, GF is not dead, but hybrid GF is dead.
If I am going to use GF, and I want to be a good one, it is necessary to go full tanky. Should I use other Paragon path, like Protector instead of Conquerer in order to get more tanky, or I can still use Conquerer path, but with more tanky equipments??
(Yeah, I am new at this... but really love shielding while slam some bosses!!)
If u are a PVE player, u will do fine with any build u want. Just fine one u like.
If u are a causal PVP player, u can still do fine with most build.
If u are a hard core PVP player that come mean some serious business, roll a halfing GF and go full tank with Swordmaster Path and Tatician.