There is absolutely zero justification for this and it is nothing short of amateur logic by amateur devs. I need a reply from a dev as soon as possible on this and I NEED to know the reasoning behind this ridiculous amount of damage while stealthed and whether or not they will drastically change this in the future.
Also, endless knockdowns by GF's is out of control, put a DR on that FFS.
Hi there,
The reason for being able to attack from stealth with daggers is because all skills root you on the spot coupled with the low defense and HP of rogues, it means this class has high damage with low defense.
Also the damage gets larger for every consecutive hit, so if you are getting "daggered" a dodge usually does the trick. Or use a LOS break.
If this isn't possible you should dodge behind a team-mate so that he takes some of the hits and resets the stacking damage.
If you are alone then you are going to die so you should rush towards where-ever the daggers are coming from, and hit the TR.
On the counter argument, a GF can do 11k on a TR whilst being extremely defensive.
A CW can kill a TR from a distance and then if the TR somehow manages to get close, he can dodge 3 times in a row with a good distance being made with each dodge.
And from my personal experience, CW's are extremely overpowered in pvp. Also GF appear overpowered but only when they use those cheese builds you see posted every, stacking Tenebrous.
GWF as well hit quite hard but only good players can show that.
The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
The problem is balance then. If you make it so you can miss then you need to give them more shots or you essentially make a zero attack while the other classes don't need to aim their attacks? The wizard gets to lock on still? I've even seen both wizard and cleric dots hit from around corners. So you want to nerf the rogue but these other classes get to keep their CoS?
That targeting is actually not a bad idea. If it's the same kind of build-up the GWF and CW has, or being able to aim without a target (CW's Sudden Storm for instance)...that might work too.
And the way the mechanics are now, you can teleport all the way across the arena, but once they initiated an attack and you don't dodge, it will travel to the ends of the universe to find you.
That targeting is actually not a bad idea. If it's the same kind of build-up the GWF and CW has, or being able to aim without a target (CW's Sudden Storm for instance)...that might work too.
And the way the mechanics are now, you can teleport all the way across the arena, but once they initiated an attack and you don't dodge, it will travel to the ends of the universe to find you.
If they remove this system you know **** well what will come next. Auto targeting bots. Those who have it will excel and those who play fairly will be wondering what they are doing wrong. This is a typical problem in many FPS games where twitch targeting is key to success and aimbots make or break a player who wants to play fair.
The problem is balance then. If you make it so you can miss then you need to give them more shots or you essentially make a zero attack while the other classes don't need to aim their attacks? The wizard gets to lock on still? I've even seen both wizard and cleric dots hit from around corners. So you want to nerf the rogue but these other classes get to keep their CoS?
These other classes hahahahaha have you played a cleric!!!! dots hit round corners because they hit over time its not walk round the corner and the dot disappears???? And cleric dots are very weak they won't kill anyone hell they barely do any damage.
I'm thinking you must be a rouge as your are defending this hard in several posts, sorry but rouges need a nerf as do the GWF CW are deadly but once up close all classes except the cleric can kill it. Clerics can't do squat in PvP, about dots round the corner hahaha
If a rouge attacks from stealth that's it the stealth should go in to a cool down or at least not be activated until out of the combat situation. Do you think its right for a rouge to stay in stealth and be able to hit constantly while in stealth? that's just dumb period, once you do any kind of power that should automatically bring you from stealth end off.
From a clerics point of view all classes are over powered, oh wait no there not clerics are just broken.
If a rouge attacks from stealth that's it the stealth should go in to a cool down or at least not be activated until out of the combat situation. Do you think its right for a rouge to stay in stealth and be able to hit constantly while in stealth? that's just dumb period, once you do any kind of power that should automatically bring you from stealth end off.
You do this and rogues would be 100% worthless, may as well change the class name to Target Dummy while you are at it. Clearly every whiner needs to roll a rogue and go learn a thing or two. Like How to spell Rogue for starters!
If a rouge attacks from stealth that's it the stealth should go in to a cool down or at least not be activated until out of the combat situation.
The thing you don't understand is that many of the rogue powers are based around the rogue attacking while in stealth. If they were to do as you suggest then over half the rogue powers would become useless. It would require doing a complete overhaul of the class just to implement your suggestion.
They would have to bump rogue dmg back up because a rogue out of stealth is a sitting duck waiting to get ganked because they have very little defense. Taking away attacking from stealth would render the class useless but I bet you that is exactly what you would rather have any ways, a worthless class that you can steam roll because you won't be happy with anything less than that.
@lerdocix good point, I changed it to "need" but other than that, I don't retract anything. This is seriously an out of whack imbalance that needs to be addressed.
You do this and rogues would be 100% worthless, may as well change the class name to Target Dummy while you are at it. Clearly every whiner needs to roll a rogue and go learn a thing or two. Like How to spell Rogue for starters!
No they would still be OP because they would still use lashing blade for 1568534653 damage and still one shot you. I mean we can't have you guys actually use strategy and skill in this game can we?
No they would still be OP because they would still use lashing blade for 1568534653 damage and still one shot you. I mean we can't have you guys actually use strategy and skill in this game can we?
since you arent using neither strategy nor skill, why should we?
Huck, that illogical connection you just spouted left my jaw open. Denial is a terrible thing kid but I'm not here on this forum to teach you these simple things. Dev's need to respond to this asap. And it's TR's with an s, as in more than one TR that realizes this.
I don't understand what you mean when you correct someone and then throw an apostrophe on the end of an acronym. Please refer to the following document, it's on wikipedia but the sources are legit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbreviation#Plural_forms
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rigstorm420Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
So much tolling......... I cant tell if most of you are serious or not. I play in a guild with alot of guys in top level enchants and gear(at least 1 in every class). I can tell you all gear equal TR is by far the worst class in pvp. CW and DC will argue... but we are all that stands in your way for complete dominance.
DC dont really count they got hit with some game changing nurfs and most are trying to get competive again. DC need some love, or you could nurf the game around them but that will just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off.
Fighting a CW with stealth and daggers is somehow different than him grabbing you with a cc debuff then insta gib?
Ballance problems right now are more problems with extreme damage from gear, not just TR but all classes.
A TR in Glory gear and rank 5 enchants can not kill a CW with 12 daggers and shure as hell isnt going to drop a healer. Throw in some smart speccing buff stacking and a daily he will but thats not just right click to win. Take that same TR and throw in Gvorp 7Gtene Gsoul and now you have an op toon you all are talking about. Its not the class or throwing daggers.
To counter a normal TR throwing daggers is to dodge, then have your way with him.
No they would still be OP because they would still use lashing blade for 1568534653 damage and still one shot you. I mean we can't have you guys actually use strategy and skill in this game can we?
There's nothing "OP" about the single-target DPS class have high-damage abilities. Cloud of Steelk and Lashing Blade are working as intended. The either have limited charges and a long cooldown, and are essential in PvE for fulling the rogue's role in the game. The role of the rogue in the game is to take down single targets with high hp. This skillset naturally translates well to PvP. Other classes have their own roles. Learn yours and stop complaining about ours.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
The reason for being able to attack from stealth with daggers is because all skills root you on the spot coupled with the low defense and HP of rogues, it means this class has high damage with low defense.
Also the damage gets larger for every consecutive hit, so if you are getting "daggered" a dodge usually does the trick. Or use a LOS break.
If this isn't possible you should dodge behind a team-mate so that he takes some of the hits and resets the stacking damage.
If you are alone then you are going to die so you should rush towards where-ever the daggers are coming from, and hit the TR.
On the counter argument, a GF can do 11k on a TR whilst being extremely defensive.
A CW can kill a TR from a distance and then if the TR somehow manages to get close, he can dodge 3 times in a row with a good distance being made with each dodge.
And from my personal experience, CW's are extremely overpowered in pvp. Also GF appear overpowered but only when they use those cheese builds you see posted every, stacking Tenebrous.
GWF as well hit quite hard but only good players can show that.
Lol this thread is digressing into retardation.. The plain and simple fact is that if you're arguing in defense of this currently overpowered build then you are either trolling, haven't experienced just how overpowered it actually is when done correctly with good build/gear/player, or are just plain ignorant. Either way the issue will be addressed at some point because of its effectiveness when done correctly.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is dumb" is not an intelligent argument. It's not even an argument. It's just an insult. Grow up.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Problem with that post is simply that this is ONLY correct if the gear of both TR and his Opponent are equal. And be honest,in how many random queue matches is that happening? there is no matchmaking in place,thats why we end up with new lvl 60s fighting full enchant TRs,then ofc the TR looks insanely OP,heck even a GF or DC might depending on your class/gear..
So the solution to half the complaints here imo is make queues gear based and lock the gear upon Queue entry.. No more full enchant vs blue gear and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like that. Cause even if it is doable,its sure not as easy and simple as that Post you quoted makes it sound.
But nah.. im sure the "pro`s" out there are going to tell me to l2p and then gear doesnt matter right? ^^
It is just a matter of time before it gets nerfed don't even sweat it. They nerfed Reaper's Touch on CW's witch was {Your at wills deal 6/12/18/24/30% more damage when you are within 20ft of your target} from 30% to 15% I would bet 5 mill AD they nerf it any takers?
This game is designed to make as much money as possible on a day to day basis. It is not designed to be a great long term game.
I have one MAIN rogue fully decked out, all swashbuckling, tenebrous in every offense slot, plaguefire and soulforged. Stealth, throw knives, kills CW and DC. THATS IT. Oh and this works on the FIRST time when u have all 12 charges on throw knives.(Sometimes if DC is high on def, need to follow it up with impact shot out of stealth)
Do you know how long it takes to build up 12 charges of knives again?
Do you know if you WALK out of our throwing knife range...we have to stop throwing and cover the distance AGAIN to reach you?(Granted theres that MONKEY JUMPING and throwing 2 knives per jump while we close the distance) And by this time we are OUT of stealth?
This technique works well with lurkers assault, and with my TOP END GEAR. But again...lurkers assault is a DAILY. So once used...i have to BUILD IT up again.
My ALT Perma stealth rogue. The sacrifices you make to be perma stealth...is you're SHEET at damage.
This alt of mine is a HOBBY toon, so geared with pvp glory set, and all recovery enchantment to maintain stealth. Ornaments all purple,RECOVERY focused.
This alt doesn't kill A **** THING. He just irritates ppl by capping points and making the whole enemy team run to a point, while my team caps the rest.
NOW....what is the difference u see here?
If you're SLOW...let me tell you....GEAR is the difference.
You don't expect to show up with your t1 sheet and not get OWNED by someone with endgame full set with awesome enchants. WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE? That you can play SO GOOD that u can ignore GEAR DIFFERENCE?
NOW.....realistically. If BOTH enemies have FULL ENDGAME GEAR. Here's what will happen.
TR vs CW: CW will get reduced to 25% life...his soulforged will kick in, Rogue is out of stealth, CW strangles us, stuns us, enfeebles us...OUR soulforged kicks in, we finally get immune to damage and KILL the cw....TR now has a sliver of life, stealth on cooldown, impossible to catch(probably) on cool down, knives recharging, soulforged on cooldown......so basically any enemy walking by can SNEEZE on you and u die....
(Of course different skilled players, would do other things...this is just the most NORMAL common scenario)
TR vs DC: Here DC is DEAD. Thats not our FAULT. Why NErf us...DC is dead 1vs 1 ANYONE really if both is endgame geared...
Thats your own DC problem....take it up with the devs.
TR vs GWF: Here AGAIN i gonna remind , this is scenario where ALL are even geared...Not gonna remind you anymore.
TR Unload knives....GWF taken down to about 50% HEalth, TR out of stealth...GWF laugh, presses unstoppable and gets SELFHEALED back to 80% life.....So from here, theres alot of rolling around, dodging, SKILL. WHoever more skill wins....However...point to note...If we TR get caught by ANY of the gwf, Flourish or takedown.....Thats the end of the fight.
(Of course if you have a DAILY charged u can burst damage the gwf to death....ONE TIME.....No Daily? NO KILL.)
TR vs GF: Nothing much to say...You out of stealth...You DEAD. Kiss the floor, and LOVE IT.
You want to talk about OP??? Start looking at the GF.
Have u been in matches with a high end geared gf? That sucka can go to an enemy point and just LIVE there for 5 minutes. You want to take him down 1 VS 1? Good luck^^ Call 2 other friends to help you.....OOPS that means only 2 of your team is out there....say GOODBYE to your other point
Every other class well geared...there is a POSSIBILITY of 1 vs 1 and winning, EXCEPT the GF.
If you're pre-60.......just STFU about ANYTHING. Reach 60 then see how the game has played out, THEN comment.
Stop calling for NERFS just because YOU got owned.
FOOLS.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
TR vs CW: CW will get reduced to 25% life...his soulforged will kick in, Rogue is out of stealth, CW strangles us, stuns us, enfeebles us...OUR soulforged kicks in, we finally get immune to damage and KILL the cw....TR now has a sliver of life, stealth on cooldown, impossible to catch(probably) on cool down, knives recharging, soulforged on cooldown......so basically any enemy walking by can SNEEZE on you and u die....
(Of course different skilled players, would do other things...this is just the most NORMAL common scenario)
CW get reduced to 25% life, soulforged kicks in (if it haven't bugged, sometimes it's simply not working), rogue is out of stealth (if he had no stealth prolonging abilities, nor LA slotted), can't "strangle" because of ItC, can't do anything of the above, die.
However, it would be smarter of rogue to bring him down to ~30% an then hit with a LB. Soulforged won't proc if you instantly kill a target above 25% hp.
TR vs GWF: Here AGAIN i gonna remind , this is scenario where ALL are even geared...Not gonna remind you anymore.
TR Unload knives....GWF taken down to about 50% HEalth, TR out of stealth...GWF laugh, presses unstoppable and gets SELFHEALED back to 80% life.....So from here, theres alot of rolling around, dodging, SKILL. WHoever more skill wins....However...point to note...If we TR get caught by ANY of the gwf, Flourish or takedown.....Thats the end of the fight.
(Of course if you have a DAILY charged u can burst damage the gwf to death....ONE TIME.....No Daily? NO KILL.)
Rogue DPS him to death from 100% to 0 through all this selfhealing, while being in ItC, GWF either runs away or dies.
I still think TRs are pretty OP even though I main one myself. The hardest hitting rogues I've fought against are not specced into Executioner but Scoundrel. Everytime I 1v1 they seem to have their daily up i.e Lurker's.
If you have these class features and feats, you can build up your daily pretty fast:
-Tactics: Increase Action Point Gain by 5%/10%/15%
-Action Advantage 5/5: 2/4/6/8/10% additional Action Point for dealing Combat Advantage damage
-Cunning Stalker 5/5 : While Stealthed, you build 4/8/12/16/20% more Action Points
-Underhanded Tactics 5/5: Increase the effectiveness of Combat Advantage for you by 4/8/12/16/20%
-Action Rush 5/5: Your Encounter Powers have a 15% chance to grant 3/6/9/12/15% of your Action Point
Most of them use Bait and Switch to gain more AP and the chance to gain even more from Action Rush. Coupled with the set bonus of Swash for Power and Recovery, you gain AP really quick and ready to pop your daily on anyone.
My ALT Perma stealth rogue. The sacrifices you make to be perma stealth...is you're SHEET at damage.
This alt of mine is a HOBBY toon, so geared with pvp glory set, and all recovery enchantment to maintain stealth. Ornaments all purple,RECOVERY focused.
This alt doesn't kill A **** THING. He just irritates ppl by capping points and making the whole enemy team run to a point, while my team caps the rest.
I know its your hobby toon but still you're trying to defend this build and everyone knows.
I have one MAIN rogue fully decked out, all swashbuckling, tenebrous in every offense slot, plaguefire and soulforged. Stealth, throw knives, kills CW and DC. THATS IT. Oh and this works on the FIRST time when u have all 12 charges on throw knives.(Sometimes if DC is high on def, need to follow it up with impact shot out of stealth)
Do you know how long it takes to build up 12 charges of knives again?
Do you know if you WALK out of our throwing knife range...we have to stop throwing and cover the distance AGAIN to reach you?(Granted theres that MONKEY JUMPING and throwing 2 knives per jump while we close the distance) And by this time we are OUT of stealth?
This technique works well with lurkers assault, and with my TOP END GEAR. But again...lurkers assault is a DAILY. So once used...i have to BUILD IT up again.
So erase the full recovery <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defense and focus back on end game spec/build. You just said you can kill a CW or DC with nothing but stealth and CoS leaving you 3 encounters, not to mention a possible daily to dabble with. Killing or severely maiming a toon with nothing but tab and at-wills while receiving little to no focus or damage. Not OP?.
People have got or are getting their end game gear and enchants. Does it some how negate what can be done with this build just because not everyone has? All scenarios you made of TR vs X left out the couple of stealth bar replenishing encounters and your CoS recharges 1 every 3s so stop bringing up zomg 36s full recharge timer. If you are defending this build you are either a troll, haven't experienced just how effective it is when done correctly, or just plain ignorant. :rolleyes:
The above 2 posters are correct...However you're forgetting. The charges.
Throw knives.WILL kill mostly if all 12 charges are present.......also, the target has to be pretty much spastic to not run out of range.
I see you guys keep talking about Stealth, prolonging, stealth this stealth that.
To achieve perma stealth......(PERMA, not coming out for awhile) U have to add INT, u have to slot RECOVERY. That severly diminishes your damage. ALSO take into account, to make your stealth last longer you forgo the damage feats pre paragon, and also you pretty much have to go a way other than maximizing dps post paragon.
Granted combat advantage gets a boost...but do you think that can make up for all the damage you lost? Nope.
Skills. To achieve long stealth. You gotta have stealth strike and baitswitch. So your'e left with ONE slot. What's it gonna be? LS or ITC? Thats pretty much your choices......
The issue here is GEAR. Why not you try hitting a wellgeared player from stealth with perma stealth build...See if he "dies so easily"
Of course you would ArseRApe the t1's if you rocking endgame awesomeness......The whines come from the undergeared ppl, or the ppl that thought they just can stand still and WIN everyone just cos they got endgame gear.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
I know its your hobby toon but still you're trying to defend this build and everyone knows.
So erase the full recovery <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defense and focus back on end game spec/build. You just said you can kill a CW or DC with nothing but stealth and CoS leaving you 3 encounters, not to mention a possible daily to dabble with. Killing or severely maiming a toon with nothing but tab and at-wills while receiving little to no focus or damage. Not OP?.
People have got or are getting their end game gear and enchants. Does it some how negate what can be done with this build just because not everyone has? All scenarios you made of TR vs X left out the couple of stealth bar replenishing encounters and your CoS recharges 1 every 3s so stop bringing up zomg 36s full recharge timer. If you are defending this build you are either a troll, haven't experienced just how effective it is when done correctly, or just plain ignorant. :rolleyes:
I'm Executioner...I don't go for this perma stealth bs....Like i said...The other rogue is my HOBBY toon....
And please...you're PERFECT scenario...OF course i can kill From stealth with knive throws. PERFECT scenario...me and you in a BOX.
NO outside aoes, DC doing the aoe push, NO GWF doing the red pulsing thingy, NO CW Using the ICe aoe thingy... NO other TR dropping smoke bombs...JUST YOU AND ME BABY^^ Kisskiss^^
I also can FABRICATE perefect scenarios.
If u wanna remove stealth or whatever...GO FOR IT bro.....JuSt that i get irritated when ppl want MORE nerf of DAMAGE. SO where's the end? When a TR can't kill ANYONE? WTH....Why is it so many ppl can PLAY quietly and happily? But YOU can't?
I seen CW that DESTROY man...MASSACRE. However they specced, their geared...****... TOTALLY pro. They don't try to STAY on the point while being nuked...Know how to run away, kite, and turn around and BLAST. JEEZ ANY class can do it with skill. GEAR makes the difference tho.
EDITE: By the way...i'm not defending THIS (stealth) build....What i don't want is My Executiner MAXED dps build to be affected...cos some **** can't figure out how to find and defeat a stealthed rogue...
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
Rogues in their current state are absolutely indefensible as a reasonable and fair class.
Just like how BEFORE Shocking execution was the whine right? Now it's stealth. WHAT DO U WANT? To kill a rogue and LAUGH at how easy it was?
Edit: IF you're a CW or a DC....you will feel the full brunt of a rogue. It just makes sense to TAKE OUT the HEALER and the CONTROLLER.
So it goes like this......Oher than gear....you are feeling HURT is because, rogue stealth kill YOU first...you die, but you don't see thr goue (Normally) getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AFTER he kill you. SO you respawn and come back....The dead rogue respawns and comes back too and.....KILLS YOU AGAIN. You're a PRIORITY target....Thats why you feel it and start crying OP.
I wanna see any GF come here crying that a rogue is OP.....
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
As a CW I get targeted by rogues non stop. Love how they can dodge my daily and my cc and use impossible to catch. I love how a rogue can out dps me at range but fine maybe that's how you want it to be. I can just hold my own as a full geared 60. .
But getting targeted by an invisible rogue and killed over and over is just dumb.
Perma Stealth rogues seriously how hard is it to fix that. Cloud of steel breaks stealth -Derp.
Then only reason you don't see more of these builds is because too many rogues want to do well in PVE. Now once they realise the its the build they can use for the 20man PVP raid its going cause a lot of people to leave.
One further thing. You nerf Ray of enfeeblement and you wont let it stack now but you go and give a boost to rogues power and you make the GWF a sprinting self healing plate wearing stunlocker.
Imagine devs for a minute. I engage the GWF I use my stamina to dodge and my encounters to burst them down. Ohh hang on almost had him but no back to full health and now hes cc immune and im out of stamina and waiting for my encounters to go off.
All that I seem to do as a CW in PVP now is backpedal like crazy and lucky its a 5 man game because 1v1 now is just bad deal. Im not talking about the clueless crappy geared players you see all the time. Im talking well geared experienced vs the same.
I guess you feel like you have fixed PVP because like levelling PVP the rogues rule supreme again. Que the fanboi "but there a striker they are meant to own you. You should just enjoy going into PVP and being counted as another kill for me im a striker" Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh
Well the GWF is a defense class so go figure how the devs remade them. I mean warriors have been self healing all through the genres of D&D LMAO.
Im not saying you should nerf another class I just don't figure why you nerfed Ray so hard.
Just like how BEFORE Shocking execution was the whine right? Now it's stealth. WHAT DO U WANT? To kill a rogue and LAUGH at how easy it was?
Edit: IF you're a CW or a DC....you will feel the full brunt of a rogue. It just makes sense to TAKE OUT the HEALER and the CONTROLLER.
So it goes like this......Oher than gear....you are feeling HURT is because, rogue stealth kill YOU first...you die, but you don't see thr goue (Normally) getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AFTER he kill you. SO you respawn and come back....The dead rogue respawns and comes back too and.....KILLS YOU AGAIN. You're a PRIORITY target....Thats why you feel it and start crying OP.
I wanna see any GF come here crying that a rogue is OP.....
You cant imagine how foolish you are by making the above statement. If you read your forums like you prob do you have seen the perma stealth guide.
Comments
Hi there,
The reason for being able to attack from stealth with daggers is because all skills root you on the spot coupled with the low defense and HP of rogues, it means this class has high damage with low defense.
Also the damage gets larger for every consecutive hit, so if you are getting "daggered" a dodge usually does the trick. Or use a LOS break.
If this isn't possible you should dodge behind a team-mate so that he takes some of the hits and resets the stacking damage.
If you are alone then you are going to die so you should rush towards where-ever the daggers are coming from, and hit the TR.
On the counter argument, a GF can do 11k on a TR whilst being extremely defensive.
A CW can kill a TR from a distance and then if the TR somehow manages to get close, he can dodge 3 times in a row with a good distance being made with each dodge.
And from my personal experience, CW's are extremely overpowered in pvp. Also GF appear overpowered but only when they use those cheese builds you see posted every, stacking Tenebrous.
GWF as well hit quite hard but only good players can show that.
Dude, you're making it worse. How can you rationalize saying it's not OP and then claim you own anyone coming at you?
That targeting is actually not a bad idea. If it's the same kind of build-up the GWF and CW has, or being able to aim without a target (CW's Sudden Storm for instance)...that might work too.
And the way the mechanics are now, you can teleport all the way across the arena, but once they initiated an attack and you don't dodge, it will travel to the ends of the universe to find you.
If they remove this system you know **** well what will come next. Auto targeting bots. Those who have it will excel and those who play fairly will be wondering what they are doing wrong. This is a typical problem in many FPS games where twitch targeting is key to success and aimbots make or break a player who wants to play fair.
if it would be OP, he couldnt own them
thats the definition of OP
These other classes hahahahaha have you played a cleric!!!! dots hit round corners because they hit over time its not walk round the corner and the dot disappears???? And cleric dots are very weak they won't kill anyone hell they barely do any damage.
I'm thinking you must be a rouge as your are defending this hard in several posts, sorry but rouges need a nerf as do the GWF CW are deadly but once up close all classes except the cleric can kill it. Clerics can't do squat in PvP, about dots round the corner hahaha
If a rouge attacks from stealth that's it the stealth should go in to a cool down or at least not be activated until out of the combat situation. Do you think its right for a rouge to stay in stealth and be able to hit constantly while in stealth? that's just dumb period, once you do any kind of power that should automatically bring you from stealth end off.
From a clerics point of view all classes are over powered, oh wait no there not clerics are just broken.
You do this and rogues would be 100% worthless, may as well change the class name to Target Dummy while you are at it. Clearly every whiner needs to roll a rogue and go learn a thing or two. Like How to spell Rogue for starters!
The thing you don't understand is that many of the rogue powers are based around the rogue attacking while in stealth. If they were to do as you suggest then over half the rogue powers would become useless. It would require doing a complete overhaul of the class just to implement your suggestion.
They would have to bump rogue dmg back up because a rogue out of stealth is a sitting duck waiting to get ganked because they have very little defense. Taking away attacking from stealth would render the class useless but I bet you that is exactly what you would rather have any ways, a worthless class that you can steam roll because you won't be happy with anything less than that.
Agreed to the tenth.
No they would still be OP because they would still use lashing blade for 1568534653 damage and still one shot you. I mean we can't have you guys actually use strategy and skill in this game can we?
since you arent using neither strategy nor skill, why should we?
So pvp in this game: no strategy or skill. k great. /uninstall
I don't understand what you mean when you correct someone and then throw an apostrophe on the end of an acronym. Please refer to the following document, it's on wikipedia but the sources are legit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbreviation#Plural_forms
DC dont really count they got hit with some game changing nurfs and most are trying to get competive again. DC need some love, or you could nurf the game around them but that will just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off.
Fighting a CW with stealth and daggers is somehow different than him grabbing you with a cc debuff then insta gib?
Ballance problems right now are more problems with extreme damage from gear, not just TR but all classes.
A TR in Glory gear and rank 5 enchants can not kill a CW with 12 daggers and shure as hell isnt going to drop a healer. Throw in some smart speccing buff stacking and a daily he will but thats not just right click to win. Take that same TR and throw in Gvorp 7Gtene Gsoul and now you have an op toon you all are talking about. Its not the class or throwing daggers.
To counter a normal TR throwing daggers is to dodge, then have your way with him.
There's nothing "OP" about the single-target DPS class have high-damage abilities. Cloud of Steelk and Lashing Blade are working as intended. The either have limited charges and a long cooldown, and are essential in PvE for fulling the rogue's role in the game. The role of the rogue in the game is to take down single targets with high hp. This skillset naturally translates well to PvP. Other classes have their own roles. Learn yours and stop complaining about ours.
This is a good post, that is just being ignored.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is dumb" is not an intelligent argument. It's not even an argument. It's just an insult. Grow up.
Problem with that post is simply that this is ONLY correct if the gear of both TR and his Opponent are equal. And be honest,in how many random queue matches is that happening? there is no matchmaking in place,thats why we end up with new lvl 60s fighting full enchant TRs,then ofc the TR looks insanely OP,heck even a GF or DC might depending on your class/gear..
So the solution to half the complaints here imo is make queues gear based and lock the gear upon Queue entry.. No more full enchant vs blue gear and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like that. Cause even if it is doable,its sure not as easy and simple as that Post you quoted makes it sound.
But nah.. im sure the "pro`s" out there are going to tell me to l2p and then gear doesnt matter right? ^^
I have one MAIN rogue fully decked out, all swashbuckling, tenebrous in every offense slot, plaguefire and soulforged. Stealth, throw knives, kills CW and DC. THATS IT. Oh and this works on the FIRST time when u have all 12 charges on throw knives.(Sometimes if DC is high on def, need to follow it up with impact shot out of stealth)
Do you know how long it takes to build up 12 charges of knives again?
Do you know if you WALK out of our throwing knife range...we have to stop throwing and cover the distance AGAIN to reach you?(Granted theres that MONKEY JUMPING and throwing 2 knives per jump while we close the distance) And by this time we are OUT of stealth?
This technique works well with lurkers assault, and with my TOP END GEAR. But again...lurkers assault is a DAILY. So once used...i have to BUILD IT up again.
My ALT Perma stealth rogue. The sacrifices you make to be perma stealth...is you're SHEET at damage.
This alt of mine is a HOBBY toon, so geared with pvp glory set, and all recovery enchantment to maintain stealth. Ornaments all purple,RECOVERY focused.
This alt doesn't kill A **** THING. He just irritates ppl by capping points and making the whole enemy team run to a point, while my team caps the rest.
NOW....what is the difference u see here?
If you're SLOW...let me tell you....GEAR is the difference.
You don't expect to show up with your t1 sheet and not get OWNED by someone with endgame full set with awesome enchants. WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE? That you can play SO GOOD that u can ignore GEAR DIFFERENCE?
NOW.....realistically. If BOTH enemies have FULL ENDGAME GEAR. Here's what will happen.
TR vs CW: CW will get reduced to 25% life...his soulforged will kick in, Rogue is out of stealth, CW strangles us, stuns us, enfeebles us...OUR soulforged kicks in, we finally get immune to damage and KILL the cw....TR now has a sliver of life, stealth on cooldown, impossible to catch(probably) on cool down, knives recharging, soulforged on cooldown......so basically any enemy walking by can SNEEZE on you and u die....
(Of course different skilled players, would do other things...this is just the most NORMAL common scenario)
TR vs DC: Here DC is DEAD. Thats not our FAULT. Why NErf us...DC is dead 1vs 1 ANYONE really if both is endgame geared...
Thats your own DC problem....take it up with the devs.
TR vs GWF: Here AGAIN i gonna remind , this is scenario where ALL are even geared...Not gonna remind you anymore.
TR Unload knives....GWF taken down to about 50% HEalth, TR out of stealth...GWF laugh, presses unstoppable and gets SELFHEALED back to 80% life.....So from here, theres alot of rolling around, dodging, SKILL. WHoever more skill wins....However...point to note...If we TR get caught by ANY of the gwf, Flourish or takedown.....Thats the end of the fight.
(Of course if you have a DAILY charged u can burst damage the gwf to death....ONE TIME.....No Daily? NO KILL.)
TR vs GF: Nothing much to say...You out of stealth...You DEAD. Kiss the floor, and LOVE IT.
You want to talk about OP??? Start looking at the GF.
Have u been in matches with a high end geared gf? That sucka can go to an enemy point and just LIVE there for 5 minutes. You want to take him down 1 VS 1? Good luck^^ Call 2 other friends to help you.....OOPS that means only 2 of your team is out there....say GOODBYE to your other point
Every other class well geared...there is a POSSIBILITY of 1 vs 1 and winning, EXCEPT the GF.
If you're pre-60.......just STFU about ANYTHING. Reach 60 then see how the game has played out, THEN comment.
Stop calling for NERFS just because YOU got owned.
FOOLS.
CW get reduced to 25% life, soulforged kicks in (if it haven't bugged, sometimes it's simply not working), rogue is out of stealth (if he had no stealth prolonging abilities, nor LA slotted), can't "strangle" because of ItC, can't do anything of the above, die.
However, it would be smarter of rogue to bring him down to ~30% an then hit with a LB. Soulforged won't proc if you instantly kill a target above 25% hp.
Rogue DPS him to death from 100% to 0 through all this selfhealing, while being in ItC, GWF either runs away or dies.
If you have these class features and feats, you can build up your daily pretty fast:
-Tactics: Increase Action Point Gain by 5%/10%/15%
-Action Advantage 5/5: 2/4/6/8/10% additional Action Point for dealing Combat Advantage damage
-Cunning Stalker 5/5 : While Stealthed, you build 4/8/12/16/20% more Action Points
-Underhanded Tactics 5/5: Increase the effectiveness of Combat Advantage for you by 4/8/12/16/20%
-Action Rush 5/5: Your Encounter Powers have a 15% chance to grant 3/6/9/12/15% of your Action Point
Most of them use Bait and Switch to gain more AP and the chance to gain even more from Action Rush. Coupled with the set bonus of Swash for Power and Recovery, you gain AP really quick and ready to pop your daily on anyone.
I know its your hobby toon but still you're trying to defend this build and everyone knows.
So erase the full recovery <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> defense and focus back on end game spec/build. You just said you can kill a CW or DC with nothing but stealth and CoS leaving you 3 encounters, not to mention a possible daily to dabble with. Killing or severely maiming a toon with nothing but tab and at-wills while receiving little to no focus or damage. Not OP?.
People have got or are getting their end game gear and enchants. Does it some how negate what can be done with this build just because not everyone has? All scenarios you made of TR vs X left out the couple of stealth bar replenishing encounters and your CoS recharges 1 every 3s so stop bringing up zomg 36s full recharge timer. If you are defending this build you are either a troll, haven't experienced just how effective it is when done correctly, or just plain ignorant. :rolleyes:
Throw knives.WILL kill mostly if all 12 charges are present.......also, the target has to be pretty much spastic to not run out of range.
I see you guys keep talking about Stealth, prolonging, stealth this stealth that.
To achieve perma stealth......(PERMA, not coming out for awhile) U have to add INT, u have to slot RECOVERY. That severly diminishes your damage. ALSO take into account, to make your stealth last longer you forgo the damage feats pre paragon, and also you pretty much have to go a way other than maximizing dps post paragon.
Granted combat advantage gets a boost...but do you think that can make up for all the damage you lost? Nope.
Skills. To achieve long stealth. You gotta have stealth strike and baitswitch. So your'e left with ONE slot. What's it gonna be? LS or ITC? Thats pretty much your choices......
The issue here is GEAR. Why not you try hitting a wellgeared player from stealth with perma stealth build...See if he "dies so easily"
Of course you would ArseRApe the t1's if you rocking endgame awesomeness......The whines come from the undergeared ppl, or the ppl that thought they just can stand still and WIN everyone just cos they got endgame gear.
I'm Executioner...I don't go for this perma stealth bs....Like i said...The other rogue is my HOBBY toon....
And please...you're PERFECT scenario...OF course i can kill From stealth with knive throws. PERFECT scenario...me and you in a BOX.
NO outside aoes, DC doing the aoe push, NO GWF doing the red pulsing thingy, NO CW Using the ICe aoe thingy... NO other TR dropping smoke bombs...JUST YOU AND ME BABY^^ Kisskiss^^
I also can FABRICATE perefect scenarios.
If u wanna remove stealth or whatever...GO FOR IT bro.....JuSt that i get irritated when ppl want MORE nerf of DAMAGE. SO where's the end? When a TR can't kill ANYONE? WTH....Why is it so many ppl can PLAY quietly and happily? But YOU can't?
I seen CW that DESTROY man...MASSACRE. However they specced, their geared...****... TOTALLY pro. They don't try to STAY on the point while being nuked...Know how to run away, kite, and turn around and BLAST. JEEZ ANY class can do it with skill. GEAR makes the difference tho.
EDITE: By the way...i'm not defending THIS (stealth) build....What i don't want is My Executiner MAXED dps build to be affected...cos some **** can't figure out how to find and defeat a stealthed rogue...
Just like how BEFORE Shocking execution was the whine right? Now it's stealth. WHAT DO U WANT? To kill a rogue and LAUGH at how easy it was?
Edit: IF you're a CW or a DC....you will feel the full brunt of a rogue. It just makes sense to TAKE OUT the HEALER and the CONTROLLER.
So it goes like this......Oher than gear....you are feeling HURT is because, rogue stealth kill YOU first...you die, but you don't see thr goue (Normally) getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AFTER he kill you. SO you respawn and come back....The dead rogue respawns and comes back too and.....KILLS YOU AGAIN. You're a PRIORITY target....Thats why you feel it and start crying OP.
I wanna see any GF come here crying that a rogue is OP.....
This is about PVP at Cap.
As a CW I get targeted by rogues non stop. Love how they can dodge my daily and my cc and use impossible to catch. I love how a rogue can out dps me at range but fine maybe that's how you want it to be. I can just hold my own as a full geared 60. .
But getting targeted by an invisible rogue and killed over and over is just dumb.
Perma Stealth rogues seriously how hard is it to fix that. Cloud of steel breaks stealth -Derp.
Then only reason you don't see more of these builds is because too many rogues want to do well in PVE. Now once they realise the its the build they can use for the 20man PVP raid its going cause a lot of people to leave.
One further thing. You nerf Ray of enfeeblement and you wont let it stack now but you go and give a boost to rogues power and you make the GWF a sprinting self healing plate wearing stunlocker.
Imagine devs for a minute. I engage the GWF I use my stamina to dodge and my encounters to burst them down. Ohh hang on almost had him but no back to full health and now hes cc immune and im out of stamina and waiting for my encounters to go off.
All that I seem to do as a CW in PVP now is backpedal like crazy and lucky its a 5 man game because 1v1 now is just bad deal. Im not talking about the clueless crappy geared players you see all the time. Im talking well geared experienced vs the same.
I guess you feel like you have fixed PVP because like levelling PVP the rogues rule supreme again. Que the fanboi "but there a striker they are meant to own you. You should just enjoy going into PVP and being counted as another kill for me im a striker" Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh Blah BLah BLah Blah Blah BLAh
Well the GWF is a defense class so go figure how the devs remade them. I mean warriors have been self healing all through the genres of D&D LMAO.
Im not saying you should nerf another class I just don't figure why you nerfed Ray so hard.
Rant off
You cant imagine how foolish you are by making the above statement. If you read your forums like you prob do you have seen the perma stealth guide.
just cause several undergeared (and prolly unskilled) whiners write something on the forum, doesnt make it true