Extreamly Hard Puzzles with Author hints. Okay?

ovaltine74

I have in mind for part of my quest to include a symbolic logic puzzle in that is really hard. I figure only a small percentage would figure it out without guessing and dying over and over again. Would that be okay if I also included an escape through author hints? I figure like three or so hints to where the third one basically completes that portion of the quest for you.

I know there are the brainy types out there that love difficult puzzles to figure out, but I don't want to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the average player either. You think the hints would be enough to keep from pissing them off, or should I just put in a relatively easy puzzle.

glantorx

As with most things some will love it and some will hate it. My suggestion is to tell people upfront - Contains mind bending puzzles - or something like that, other wise those who do not like it may give bad revues saying could not complete or unsolvable puzzle etc.

vuelhering

Have the puzzle give a shortcut to avoid the annoying tombraider jumping puzzle over the pit of death.

ovaltine74

It is a logic puzzle. Like the ones where one guy always tells the truth another guy always lies...you get the idea. It is a bit more elaborate though and I can tie it in nicely with my story. I was thinking just having the hint lessen the number of possible wrong answers. A wrong answer equals death, so some who have no clue can avoid having to guess by taking the hints.

vuelhering

You could just have a wrong answer drop you into a pit of zombies, or spawn a few extras, and a door that goes back to the main quest. Answer right, you'll stroll through... answer wrong and you will probably die, but not necessarily.

I don't like a lot of insta-kill quest mechanics unless there's tons of warning. DMs that revel in killing their players is kind of annoying in an us-vs-them thing. The best quests are story telling with you as the main character, where you feel your actions affect the outcome.

ovaltine74

I think I will keep the puzzle in and lessen the difficulty. I like it more for how it ties into the story. I was thinking the wrong way. I am just afraid if I make it too difficult, the difficulty will overshadow how brilliantly it works with the story. I don't want that. I would rather dumb it down a bit and let it support the story.

slaidz

What you have to figure out is who you're making this quest for.

If it's for yourself, make it as hard as you want it. If it's for the audience, make it the way they want it. If you want thousands of plays, then you have to appeal to the general public. From what I've read you're appealing to a niche audience so make sure you put everything that niche wants into your quest. Perhaps get more feedback to see what they want and adjust difficulty accordingly.

wuhsin

Look, if you put an easy mode and a hard mode in a map, people will choose easy mode, then give you one star ratings for making the quest too easy. Then people will pick hard mode, and rage quit half way through, play again on easy, and give you one star for the hard mode being too hard. People are fickle. It stinks.

thehuntress

Wuhsin is right. People are fickle but the puzzle sounds like an awesome idea. It'll just be hard to balance it. Maybe get a couple of testers first and post this that you're balancing part of it and see what the outcome is.

wuhsin

Puzzles are innovative. Innovation is what the Foundry needs, even though it's not what everybody wants.

ovaltine74

wuhsin wrote: »

Puzzles are innovative. Innovation is what the Foundry needs, even though it's not what everybody wants.

I agree. We do need more involved quests. I love puzzles, but those require thinking. I am already requiring people to read a lot. If I require them to think to...man, I'll be lucky to get three star reviews. But I really am not that pessimistic. I make them for the ones who enjoy stuff like that. May never get a thousand plays, but if I remain true to the story, that is what matters.

pnellesen

I agree with the "don't kill them if they fail" sentiment, but maybe give a small penalty for each clue received? Like a previous poster said, maybe you have to fight a few mobs that get tougher each time you ask for the next clue? Or instead of a fight, some kind of reward based on how many clues you take? I don't know much about the Foundry, but if you can't control the quality of rewards, then that idea probably wouldn't work very well.

I like the idea of puzzles - would definitely like to try a quest with this sort of thing included. Good luck!

zahinder

I have a very hard puzzle, but also let people cheat past it by hand-waving class skills.

If you like Secret World-level puzzles, great! If not, that's cool.

fallensbane

Have you thought about making your puzzle an optional side quest? You can cater to multiple crowds that way. You keep the players who don't have the patience for exploration happy by keeping them moving along with the main goals and off to the side you could have that an an optional exploration find. Explain you can complete the quest by following the main trail/markers but that there is also some challenging optional side stuff for those who are interested.

zahinder

Fallensbane, side question... how'd you get that blue effect in the screenshot?

Been working at an 'undersea' map but I just can't get the lighting right -- blue fog is way too light, and black fog just looks... well, black.

fallensbane

zahinder wrote: »

Fallensbane, side question... how'd you get that blue effect in the screenshot?

Been working at an 'undersea' map but I just can't get the lighting right -- blue fog is way too light, and black fog just looks... well, black.

That blue is actually a default atmosphere for the custom cave with the blue crystals. However, I did color burn my signature in photoshop to darken it a bit more for my signature. Its a bit lighter in the actual quest.

apocrs1980

Just build what you love and have fun building, and the rest will follow. If your ratings are 1 star per every 100 five stars then I would consider the quest a huge success.

zahinder

fallensbane wrote: »

That blue is actually a default atmosphere for the custom cave with the blue crystals. However, I did color burn my signature in photoshop to darken it a bit more for my signature. Its a bit lighter in the actual quest.

Aw. Man. That would have been perfect.

I guess I'll add that to my foundry wishlist.

eskarine

I am working on a puzzle/exploration quest myself and I don't intend to make any waypoints OR make 90% interactable items sparkle (using invisible walls as interaction item). My puzzles won't be extremly hard, but you will have to pay attention to enviroment. I'm guessing the best way to avoid being flamed (which, I expect, will still happen) is to make it clear upfront at quest description.