Dragon Cult Lockbox - Tradebars?

erevel09

Hey. I really like the new change for the lockboxes and the way they resemble the Knox's Box. Just wanted to ask something and if the answer is positive, make a suggestion.

So, with the new lockbox - Dragon Cult Lockbox - we can get lots of decent rewards. I like that. However, as the title says, am I right to assume that only tradebars that comes from there will come from milestones and those 25 tradebars packs which has 1/10 chance to drop? If that's true, I hope you know people will be upset about reduced number of tradebars they receive. Even now, on live, we usually get about 40 tradebars on average per lockbox opened, not counting any other reward.

If it indeed is the case, I'd like to make a suggestion. For each lockbox opened give us random amount of tradebars, similar to the way we get them now. No need to put the same range as regular lockboxes, but I think 20-500 tradebars (astral lockbox range) would be sufficient.

gankdalf

Another question, do we really have to open 250 keys for each specific lockbox to reach the milestone? Do you start at 0 on each new lockbox?

Also it only has 1 drop per lockbox?

I dont see how this is an improvement unless you have lots of zen opening boxes to reach the 250 milestone on each... And even then buying the keys does not seem to get you anywhere near breaking even.

plasticbat

It is an improvement for those who have VIP and did not open lockbox for a very long time because there was (almost) nothing good in the lockbox.

maxzius

This is a HUGE nerf to lockboxes without the tradebars and a 250 key milestone. After 250 keys the chances of hitting the main rewards on a lockbox were pretty damn good, anyway, so that milestone means nothing.

The loss of tradebars with every key is an average loss of 13ish companion or mount tokes (20 if you waited for the tradebar sale) with every key. That is an enormous nerf to lockboxes and buying keys.

It's a terrible change and a slap in the face to anyone who spends money on your game.

arazith07

maxzius#3795 said:

This is a HUGE nerf to lockboxes without the tradebars and a 250 key milestone. After 250 keys the chances of hitting the main rewards on a lockbox were pretty damn good, anyway, so that milestone means nothing.

The loss of tradebars with every key is an average loss of 13ish companion or mount tokes (20 if you waited for the tradebar sale) with every key. That is an enormous nerf to lockboxes and buying keys.

It's a terrible change and a slap in the face to anyone who spends money on your game.

I agree that it is a nerf to trade bar generation, but the 250 milestone is just a streak breaker and is not a nerf. 1/250 was what many speculated the drop rate was for the grand prizes. This just ensures that, if you are unlucky, you'll have an opportunity to get that prize.

iffyshizzle

I would like to add I think overall the change is positive, showing the odds of getting items, and the streak breakers.

However I too think the trade bar change is a poorly thought out idea, and many people are upset by this one. Please consider adjusting so that opening every box guarantee's trade bars as with the existing lockboxes. This is one of the main attractions of the lockboxes, especially for those of us who buy VIP.

I would also like to add, common and uncommon Compions & mounts in lockboxes, as a sole reward for that opening is bad enough.
But when you are nerfing the primary source of upgrade tokens for VIP / Key buyers that really is a bit much. Even if some amazing comp or mount drops, you dont have such ready access to upgrade tokens to upgrade it and make is useful, as there are far less trade bars.

Please review this decsion, and consider player feedback. Changes to lockboxes is going to primarily affect people who pay for VIP, these proposed changes greatly de-value the VIP offering.

darthpotater

We can allways open other lockboxes if we need tradebars. Some people will preffer new ones, and some people old ones. Choices are good.

maxzius

arazith07 said:

maxzius#3795 said:

This is a HUGE nerf to lockboxes without the tradebars and a 250 key milestone. After 250 keys the chances of hitting the main rewards on a lockbox were pretty damn good, anyway, so that milestone means nothing.

The loss of tradebars with every key is an average loss of 13ish companion or mount tokes (20 if you waited for the tradebar sale) with every key. That is an enormous nerf to lockboxes and buying keys.

It's a terrible change and a slap in the face to anyone who spends money on your game.

I agree that it is a nerf to trade bar generation, but the 250 milestone is just a streak breaker and is not a nerf. 1/250 was what many speculated the drop rate was for the grand prizes. This just ensures that, if you are unlucky, you'll have an opportunity to get that prize.

I never said that the 250 streak breaker was a nerf. I said it was pointless because you would get the mythic mount from a lockbox well before you would ever hit that number.

Now that you brought it up, though, and I've thought about it. The 250 odds for the mythic mount IS a nerf, also. 250 odds are 0.4% when the most recent lockboxes were averaging 0.47%. Doesn't sound like a lot, but that's close to a 20% reduction in the chance to get a mythic mount without hitting the streak-breaker.

That nerf plus the tradebar nerf all packaged up in something that looks like the Knox Box in order to sell the idea that it's a good thing and lockboxes should drop things that you can get for free from Juma bags.

Again, it's a slap in the face to anyone who was planning on continuing to pay money to this game.

gankdalf

Hm.. Isnt it 0.4% to get a mount opening the 250 lockboxes AND a 100% chance to get one aswell? Its a nerf if you dont reach the 250 mark but its a buff if you do reach it.

Unless I misunderstanding how it works.. The problem is reaching the 250 mark.. If you only open the VIP key, it takes you 250 days. How often do we get a new lockbox? I feel like you would have to keep opening the old lockbox just to reach the 250 mark.

You can ofc buy extra keys and reach the 250 mark sooner but thats pretty much throwing your AD away since the rewards wont even break even with what you spend on the keys.

maxzius

gankdalf#8991 said:

Hm.. Isnt it 0.4% to get a mount opening the 250 lockboxes AND a 100% chance to get one aswell? Its a nerf if you dont reach the 250 mark but its a buff if you do reach it.

Unless I misunderstanding how it works.. The problem is reaching the 250 mark.. If you only open the VIP key, it takes you 250 days. How often do we get a new lockbox? I feel like you would have to keep opening the old lockbox just to reach the 250 mark.

You can ofc buy extra keys and reach the 250 mark sooner but thats pretty much throwing your AD away since the rewards wont even break even with what you spend on the keys.

Right. Buying 250 keys, even with 50 packs with a 20% off coupon for each one would be 20,000 zen. That's 15 million AD. Skip the new lockboxes and just buy the mount on the tradehouse if you really want it and get everything else from Juma bags.

arazith07

maxzius#3795 said:

arazith07 said:

maxzius#3795 said:

This is a HUGE nerf to lockboxes without the tradebars and a 250 key milestone. After 250 keys the chances of hitting the main rewards on a lockbox were pretty damn good, anyway, so that milestone means nothing.

The loss of tradebars with every key is an average loss of 13ish companion or mount tokes (20 if you waited for the tradebar sale) with every key. That is an enormous nerf to lockboxes and buying keys.

It's a terrible change and a slap in the face to anyone who spends money on your game.

I agree that it is a nerf to trade bar generation, but the 250 milestone is just a streak breaker and is not a nerf. 1/250 was what many speculated the drop rate was for the grand prizes. This just ensures that, if you are unlucky, you'll have an opportunity to get that prize.

I never said that the 250 streak breaker was a nerf. I said it was pointless because you would get the mythic mount from a lockbox well before you would ever hit that number.

Now that you brought it up, though, and I've thought about it. The 250 odds for the mythic mount IS a nerf, also. 250 odds are 0.4% when the most recent lockboxes were averaging 0.47%. Doesn't sound like a lot, but that's close to a 20% reduction in the chance to get a mythic mount without hitting the streak-breaker.

That nerf plus the tradebar nerf all packaged up in something that looks like the Knox Box in order to sell the idea that it's a good thing and lockboxes should drop things that you can get for free from Juma bags.

Again, it's a slap in the face to anyone who was planning on continuing to pay money to this game.

Even if we calculate it to be something, doesn't mean that it was the actual drop rate. Only Cryptic has those numbers, this is the first time that it's been published what the chances are.

liadan1984

Current lockboxes give three items every time you open.
New lockbox appears to give only one item.

That'll be a hard pass. I'll just wait until any items I'm wanting are on the AH at a reasonable price.

mordekai

So, instead of filling up with RP, Vouchers, Tokens and Trade Bars... we'll be getting a pile of Green and Blue Companions and Mounts... with the potential for the occasional Tokens and Trade Bars. And if we promise to buy 250 keys we can have some rewards for free?
OK...

On a current Lockbox I can open 100 and be pretty much guaranteed 4K Trade Bars, along with all the other drops I collect. New lock box will get me an expected 250 Trade Bars with the promise that if I buy another 50 keys (that would get me 2000TB plus other drops on an old lockbox...) I can have 1000 Trade Bars for free.
But OOOOH!!! There's a shiny Streakbreaker!!!! Don't look at the drops... look at the UI!!!!
So... that's a lot better then...

Yeah... that's probably me done with keys now.

normlcat

Gee, keys to get tradebars is a big reason I have VIP. Hmm, I wonder if I'll re-up that now??

thany

Well. Just buy old lockboxes from WB while you can if you don't have them. This is just pahtetic. Mostly we need insignia dust and the best way to get it is through the tbars. This new lockboxes are for new players that want to waste money.

plasticbat

thany#4351 said:

Well. Just buy old lockboxes from WB while you can if you don't have them. This is just pahtetic. Mostly we need insignia dust and the best way to get it is through the tbars. This new lockboxes are for new players that want to waste money.

Why do you need to buy it? Don't you pick up lockbox that drops all the time?

mordekai

Out of interest, was there any sort of market research done on this? (I know... I know... )

I recall there were a couple of questions a few years ago about lockboxes during the ill fated CDP, but I'm not sure they took into account the current level of Insignia Powder and value of Trade Bars in general.

But was anyone asked a sort of "So, what is it you most value from lockboxes?" type of question? Or was it another case of, "So, what do WE the developers think players most value from this aspect of the game..."?

I'm pretty sure that if they had asked the question, "How would you feel if we drastically reduce the amount of general rewards, but introduce a streak breaker at 250 keys for the main chase item?" my answer would be something along the lines of "Wow! That's pretty up front! You could at least offer to buy us dinner first!"

thany

plasticbat said:

Why do you need to buy it? Don't you pick up lockbox that drops all the time?

I have thousands of them (picked, not bought). I wrote to the people who doesn't have them. With new lockboxes, well, there won't be anymore lockboxes in wb with guaranteed tbars. But they could be very expensive on ah.

chaderickrax

I was VERY excited about this change after watching the twitch teaser a couple weeks ago.

But when I saw that there is only one drop per box, and no more tradebars, I realized that I'll be mining my old boxes until they run out. So, no new lockbox (at least not in this style) for a few years. Still need griffons, the lich, and a bunch of other drops that never showed up even though I open boxes daily...and tend to splurge on a bundle of keys before each tradebar sale.

This had the potential to be an AMAZING change, but in the end it's another net loss.

I think the thing that bothers me most is the fact that I got so excited based off their clear enthusiasm for it. Only to find out that they were that excited about something that removes the most valuable part of any lockbox.

erevel09

There is still time to add those tradebars. The lockbox is not yet active. Would be really nice to have them as they are something that most people would like to get from them if they are not lucky enough to get main prize.

baucoin

The removal of tradebars and only one item per opening instead of three are both terrible decisions. For me I'll maybe open five or so of the new lockbox only to see how the new interface looks. Hopefully the metrics for the new box will show the Dev's that some of these changes were a mistake.

erevel09

Ok. So the new lockbox basically killed reliable way of getting tradebars with this format. And yes, I am aware of existance of older lockboxes.

Opening 250 old lockboxes would yield (with extreme bad luck) a minimum of 6250 Tradebars . Usually on average it would be something close to 10000-12500.

Opening 250 new lockboxes would yield minimum of 1000 (because of milestone) and... any leftovers. Safe to say, maybe 2000 Tradebars tops, although I've seen numbers like 1625 or 1475.

I get it, we get better drop rates on companions, tokens, powder and all that stuff, and while the drop tables seems to be quite decent, it's still a powerful hit.

Can we please get some more of those? Not with every opened lockbox maybe, but with extra smaller milestones or just plain doubled amount of the base number (50 instead of 25)?

taikaias

My feedback is that the drop rate of companions and mounts in the new lockboxes are great. However, it has nearly voided any chances of getting genies gifts or trade bars for upgrading new characters. I've stopped opening new lockboxes, because I need the tradebars and genies gifts. I'd recommend that the new lockbox is adjusted to give a trade bar drop and one of the other drops each time.