You are proving everyone's point on why using something like ACT or having a DPS meter in game is a valid request.
Execution is not 100% of it happening. It only happens when enemy is at or below 20%. that means it only works 20% of the time at maximum. Then you have to use the 10% proc chance. so you have 20%*10% which is 0.2*0.1 = 0.02 or 2% Compared to Shadows flurry which can happen at any time 5% of the time.
So you are comparing 5% to 2% chances for the extra damage. In a short fight sure the execution might hit harder than the flurry will but normal mobs die pretty damn quickly anyways it doesn't matter. In longer boss fights that extra 3% proc chance is going to count for a lot more damage than execution will. Which is exactly why every TR guide out there advises you to take Shadows Flurry over Execution.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Personally I'd like to use Act again but last I heard its 3rd party software and not acceptable to Cryptic's terms of service.
There is no issue in using ACT at all, it's a log parser, you don't even need to use it when the game runs, akin to using notepad or excel. Anyone who thinks differently, point me towards them, and we will do it the old fashion way:
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Let me just tell you that Shadow's Flurry is much better. There are also bleeds and stuff, but wouldn't it be much easier if there was a way to know... like a log parser.. or some advanced tools except reading tooltips..
I think that's the point. Tools allow to make a better and more informative decision. It's only some people choice to use them as negative.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited August 2019
And you didn't reply to me about skullcraker, on a single target, what is the uptime. If I have a boss, for how long the buff will stay?
You are proving everyone's point on why using something like ACT or having a DPS meter in game is a valid request.
Execution is not 100% of it happening. It only happens when enemy is at or below 20%. that means it only works 20% of the time at maximum. Then you have to use the 10% proc chance. so you have 20%*10% which is 0.2*0.1 = 0.02 or 2% Compared to Shadows flurry which can happen at any time 5% of the time.
So you are comparing 5% to 2% chances for the extra damage. In a short fight sure the execution might hit harder than the flurry will but normal mobs die pretty damn quickly anyways it doesn't matter. In longer boss fights that extra 3% proc chance is going to count for a lot more damage than execution will. Which is exactly why every TR guide out there advises you to take Shadows Flurry over Execution.
EDIT: 25x10=250 magnitude for an extra hit on duelist flurry. Ok now it seems rather bogus still just because you don't know when and during a fight. 10% ON ANY ATTACK spamming 10 times VS dealing with duelist flurry at 5% chance spamming like mad 20 times (EACH CYCLE OF DUELIST FLURRY-9secs).
10% x 10=100% of it happening. [Execution using other attacks=10 times clicking on skills and perhaps 30 seconds of your time-given that it's like 3 seconds or less to be able to hit the keyboard for next encounter] 5% x 20=100% of it happening. [Shadows Flurry-9 secs for each cycle=180 secs of wasting your time!]
-That's what I stated and you stated 100% of happening on Execution? No I stated x10 as compared x20. Just re-read.
Yeah you don't know how or when? But isn't 10% chance better than 5%? You're going to for the more damage!
Duelist expertise does less damage than skullcracker, which is more damage, but skullcracker is every 15 seconds once as I relate example. So are you really going to waste your time? It could be every cycle 20X of duelist flurry? I'm applying that way. Do you expect 5% each chance on each attack during duelist flurry? I don't think it works like that! That 10% is helping on the last bits on enemy health. I could apply 10 enemies, then execution triggers. How long does it take to kill an enemy? Not long! I mean I'm just thinking outside the box. Sure enough 10% is better than 5%. That's just my opinion.
I get your point that I might seem a bit off to make a good argument now based on outside thinking. However, seriously I despise DPS METERS with every passion! I'm trying to help and it works for me OK! I rather have some discussion about classes than some pointless DPS METER!
[NOW LETS GET REAL!]
I just can't believe that people have this obsession! ABSOLUTE OBSESSION OVER A GAME that is literally just a GAME! YOU GET THE JOB DONE, EVEN IF IT'S A FACTION OF SEC BY WHAT FEAT YOU CHOSE BY COMPARISON! It's all fun and battle. DPS METERS RUINED A PAST GAME FOR ME! FOR THE RECORD YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ONE! If this game is ruined for me like the last game I played by some players resorting to some third-party DPS Meter, after mentioning for the game implementation, and not receiving it? Call me paranoid! I'm not dealing with this again! AND I'M ABOUT TO SNAP AT SOMEONE MENTIONING A TYPE OF DPS METER, WHICH IN FACT IS BREAKING THE TOS! END THIS THREAD because the moderators can literally turn this around against mentioning such nature upon you! We have forums and that's the reason to discuss our classes. Risk yourselves! Go ahead and break yourselves from the game! IT'S A GAME, so don't ruin it for the community and don't ruin it for yourselves using such nature! AM I CLEAR?
Again we have forums to discuss classes. I'm actually enjoying discussing more than some DPS METER that is pointless that I will never ever use! Forums are supposed to be shares with our experiences. Sorry it has to be my experiences with dealing with a past game that got me paranoid. It's a long story, but short. Asking for a DPS Meter, when not received, then promotes a creation of one for third-party use. DPS Meters created prejudice upon players by it's illegal third-party use later on. Then promoted exploits and cheats. CALL IT OBSESSION! ABSOLUTE OBSESSION! So I despise and I'm sorry for being so harsh. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A DPS METER EVER! All this nature gave XIGNCODE that was literally incompatible on some community and myself to cause a BSOD, which I will get technical to show that's the anti-cheat's fault! I'm fine with anti-cheat programs. It's just I don't like something opening my computer like some rootkit and literally causing such nature to open for vulnerability and cause a BSOD with its incompetent functioning to actually work. Seriously please, don't ruin this game for me! I had to literally ask for improvement of this incompetent anti-cheat that was later removed because the funny thing is that it ended up ineffective. Sure enough the anti-cheat XIGNCODE is easy to bypass-LIKE REALLY? The company couldn't deal with any cheaters and that made me more mad! I asked for an improvement or something better for months and I get called out by support! Support called me, "hype beast or a sith that deals with absolute reasoning". Worst experience of my life! I got banned for abusing the support asking for help, when support did nothing for months for an improvement of XIGNCODE to tell the developers the issues! I swear I was civil on every support ticket and support just didn't want to deal with me anymore. NOTHING and I couldn't play a game! Funny thing is that it could be as simple as upgrading my Microsoft Visual for XIGNCODE to function its C++ properly, which the anti-cheat ran on by function anyways; I found out later after the ridiculous ban. Like how am I supposed to know? Support didn't help me by stating anything like that to try. Yet, that's not always the case and I can will explain that too if you like? XIGNCODE could crash the memory of SSDs by writing so many logs of information also. I have evidence that is so legitimate, it's a laughable anti-cheat!
I'm not going to deal with another horrible experience!
So I admit I think it's better for discussion about classes here on forums. Can we please close this thread? PLEASE! Besides we have 2 layouts to test our classes if that's a problem? Perhaps Cryptic needs to make it so we can change our feats whenever we like.
You are proving everyone's point on why using something like ACT or having a DPS meter in game is a valid request.
Execution is not 100% of it happening. It only happens when enemy is at or below 20%. that means it only works 20% of the time at maximum. Then you have to use the 10% proc chance. so you have 20%*10% which is 0.2*0.1 = 0.02 or 2% Compared to Shadows flurry which can happen at any time 5% of the time.
So you are comparing 5% to 2% chances for the extra damage. In a short fight sure the execution might hit harder than the flurry will but normal mobs die pretty damn quickly anyways it doesn't matter. In longer boss fights that extra 3% proc chance is going to count for a lot more damage than execution will. Which is exactly why every TR guide out there advises you to take Shadows Flurry over Execution.
EDIT: 25x10=250 magnitude for an extra hit on duelist flurry. Ok now it seems rather bogus still just because you don't know when and during a fight. 10% ON ANY ATTACK spamming 10 times VS dealing with duelist flurry at 5% chance spamming like mad 20 times (EACH CYCLE OF DUELIST FLURRY-9secs).
10% x 10=100% of it happening. [Execution using other attacks=10 times clicking on skills and perhaps 30 seconds of your time-given that it's like 3 seconds or less to be able to hit the keyboard for next encounter] 5% x 20=100% of it happening. [Shadows Flurry-9 secs for each cycle=180 secs of wasting your time!]
-That's what I stated and you stated 100% of happening on Execution? No I stated x10 as compared x20. Just re-read.
See what i bolded. Maybe i misinterpreted what you were saying as 100% chance instead of being the combined 100% chance after using 10 attacks. Even still this is also wrong. Just because you use a 10% proc ability does not guarantee you that it will proc on every 10th attack. It could proc on attempts 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, and 10 or it could not proc for 100 times straight.
Also for some reason your example is only using DF as the base power. Both abilities will trigger on any power that you are using. I can throw a single dagger and have Flurry trigger i dont have to spend 180 seconds doing 20 DF's to get it to trigger.
You still seem to be pushing that Execution is a better feat than Shadows Flurry and in actual real game play is far inferior. This type of data is easy to see using monitoring tools which you seem vehemently against.
Well just compare how bad or good you do comparing the damage dealt rank at the end of dungeon run. I don't know? Yet my opinion is that 10% is better than 5%.
Who cares about damage, when in fact skullcracker does more damage with one hit every 15 seconds vs duelist expertise that occurs more often with less damage, which everyone is going for duelist expertise.
It's like stating Shadow's Flurry does more damage and Execution is less damage with 10% chance. Follow me? I rather have a chance of 10% >5%.
By the @micky1p00, skullcracker pops up every 15 seconds once for single hit. Skullcracker is one hit and literally lasts, until it's used; the icon shows it near your health bar.
How I tested this? Skullcracker icon stayed after a battle, until used once by an attack.
Duelist expertise lasts longer and it's not a single hit.
It's like stating Shadow's Flurry does more damage and Execution is less damage with 10% chance. Follow me? I rather have a chance of 10% >5%.
You do realize that if the enemy has more than 20% HP you have a 0% chance to proc executioner right? So on a boss it will not proc once until he reaches 20% HP. At that point you have a 10% chance to proc it. Flurry procs from the getgo!
It was said above that almost every TR guide recommends Flurry over Executioner, there is a reason I chose to quiz you on these two feats and not others.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
By the @micky1p00, skullcracker pops up every 15 seconds once for single hit. Skullcracker is one hit and literally lasts, until it's used; the icon shows it near your health bar.
How I tested this? Skullcracker icon stayed after a battle, until used once by an attack.
This is the icon for the skill timeout, it is not what I asked. I asked for how long the "buff" on the target will last. The buff doesn't lasts for a single attack, it lasts for a time.. how long that time?
If we had a DPS meter, or a damage log, we will do the following, get some static damage weapons, go hit a dummy and discover something.... (Or read the tooltips more carefully, but those, historically, not worth much to begin with)
Imagine what a DPS meter would look like XD I picture an RPM gauge like a racing game lol This makes me soooo excited for something that will never come lmao
IMO An ingame breakdown wouldn't be a bad thing, an efficiency meter would be a bad thing. Showing someone they suck is def different than showing someone how they can improve.
@reg1981 yes I thought that too. This forum made me think outside the box, but I think it became a bit nonsense.
Probably doesn't matter how many times duelist flurry is used for shadow's flurry. Probably doesn't matter how many times of 20% of health left from an enemy.
10% of something is 10% of happening.
10% of something happening, I'm taking it!
It like playing with a slot machine.
I'm applying that execution and shadow's flurry is always cycling like a slot machine. Doesn't matter how many times! It decides for itself.
Probability. You learned it in school.
How many times duelist flurry? How many times for 20% health left each by seconds?
If something is 10% the probability is better.
It might take forever for shadow's flurry?
How can it be determined with a DPS meter? You can't! Stop being so obsessed and play the game! You get it done! So why does it matter?! I'm relying more on my dps with execution. Shadow flurry might not even proc hardly as ever?!
reg1981 yes I thought that too. This forum made me think outside the box, but I think it became a bit nonsense.
Probably doesn't matter how many times duelist flurry is used for shadow's flurry. Probably doesn't matter how many times of 20% of health left from an enemy.
10% of something is 10% of happening.
10% of something happening, I'm taking it!
It like playing with a slot machine.
Ok, I'll try to explain this.
Lets say we have 100 apples, 80 green, 20 red.
You are given two options:
First one is take all the red apples, and roll for each a dice of 100, if the number is 1 to 10, the apple is yours.
Second one, take all the apples, and for each single apple roll the same dice of 100, if the number is 1-5, the apple is yours.
Now simplifying this, on average, in option one, you get 10% of the red apples, which is 2 apples. In the second option you get 5% of the 100% apples, which is 5 apples.
This is conditional probability, you can't just ignore the 20% health. The probability for it to proc, out of all your attacks (in a simplification), is 0.2 * 0.1 = 0.02 which is 2% and not 10%
Given reason execution applies to all skills and shadow's flurry applies only to duelist flurry.
10% or 5%?
Not spamming duelist flurry all the time and execution applies to all skills with 10% chance with 20% left health from an enemy.
Hmmm... this is fun discussion. Yet it's just a game right? Everyone end with getting the dungeon done.
Might as well be getting 0-1 shadow's flurry during a whole dungeon, given 5% chance.
Might as well be getting 0-3 execution during a whole dungeon, given 10% chance.
Who knows? Probability chance is higher, it's better right?
Rolling slots machine and hitting a button to stop. I'm using all my skills with execution. Doesn't matter when. If game has more chance? Take the 10% chance, because it stops at 20% enemy health. Probability.
Shadow's flurry might as well be stopping on each cycle of duelist flurry, which is 9 seconds.
How many times to get a certain number on a dice?
Let's state that 2 numbers of 7 on a dice...more chance to get a 7.
Ok now in game to look at the descriptions better.
Does shadow's flurry apply to all skills or just duelist flurry?
In a dungeon, how often (count it) for a noticeable shadow figure during skills or even an extra shadow figure during duelist flurry?
So is 10% better? Doesn't matter when a slot machine stops. 10% of winning. More chance. That's my opinion for Execution feat.
Who knows when shadow's flurry will trigger during a boss? Probably not at all?!
Since applying that a dps meter is needed, why try to convince me that shadow's flurry is better? Why does it matter? Yet, discussing things might help for insights for classes here on forums as always. It was fun discussing this.
Basically contradicted yourself asking for a dps meter, stating that shadow's flurry is better. This is actually hilarious! Ridiculous isn't it? It's just a game!
I personally don't want a dps meter. I think it would tell too little of the story and would like people, suggest just increase asshattery.
Some more detailed metric for console would be nice though. something like an act log that shows what each thing contributed as a final page to the activity you've done. or a test area you enter that records everything. but just having a dps meter showing what you're doing.. I don't think that would really tell you that much. is it this or is it that. is it a fluke.. is it not. having an overall metric would be better.. but I wouldn't yell, NOOO don't do it. really this game can already be toxic af. I doubt it would honestly make it worse lol
The messages from @akemnos as well as from @micky1p00 are extremely clear.
To be clear, I'm a TR as a main. What they are saying to you is: yes, you have 10% probability to that feat BUT (and the "but" is huge) it procs ONLY when enemies are equal or below 20% of their health points. This means that above this quantity (which is 4/5 of the time) you HAVE NOT the proc of this feat. The other one have, yes, 5% probability BUT it can proc everytime with everypower you use (at-wills, encounters, dailies).
If you apply a simple math (the primary school math it enough) you can see:
10% x 20% = 0.1 x 0.2 = 0.02 = 2% of probability.
5% x 100% = 0.5 x 1 = 5% of probability.
(It doesn't seem that you got the point, that's why I repeated it).
To come back to the purpose of the post: For me there are no problems at all to have or have not this kind of programs in game. The specific request from the post opener is to have it in game in order to don't instal 3rd part softwares. I agree with that and again, there are no problems for me. Maybe it could be useful for the people would like to increase their performance in game. And at the same point, for who don't want to use them it's simple. It's not mandatory to use such programs. They can play and have fun as well without taking care about min/max damage/heals output.
Ok now in game to look at the descriptions better.
Does shadow's flurry apply to all skills or just duelist flurry?
In a dungeon, how often (count it) for a noticeable shadow figure during skills or even an extra shadow figure during duelist flurry?
So is 10% better? Doesn't matter when a slot machine stops. 10% of winning. More chance. That's my opinion for Execution feat.
Who knows when shadow's flurry will trigger during a boss? Probably not at all?!
Since applying that a dps meter is needed, why try to convince me that shadow's flurry is better? Why does it matter? Yet, discussing things might help for insights for classes here on forums as always. It was fun discussing this.
Basically contradicted yourself asking for a dps meter, stating that shadow's flurry is better. This is actually hilarious! Ridiculous isn't it? It's just a game!
as it has been stated multiple times earlier and again by Kors
"5% probability BUT it can proc everytime with everypower you use (at-wills, encounters, dailies)."
so yes Shadows Flurry is a much better choice at 5% proc chance compared to 2% proc chance of Execution. Having a "DPS meter" that will effectively show this in game (especially for Consoles who cant use Act) can be a huge boon. By using tools such as this people can easily experiment "in real time" with different power setups instead of waiting 10 minutes to an hour to complete a dungeon to see a paingiver chart.
In actuality, in my opinion, this is becoming more and more of an important issue since Cryptic seems to be moving towards a DPS check meta in the latest dungeons (CR, Lomm and two in Tomm). People need to be able to understand more easily what the differences are between different powers and feats and how they interact with each other.
I'd like to add something more to think about which is important for game designers in order to come up with a clear and, with a bit of use, easy to grasp system ... or why help, like a dps line in the HUD (it can be well hidden somewhere, cluttered HUDs are not a matter of content but of design) is needed in many cases:
1. This is an international game. A lot of the world has internet access. High School diploma, as sandukutupu stated, is actually pretty well educated. Not all the world has this possibility, but does anybody here seriously want to exclude people who don't have access to this kind of school? There are enough people in 1st world countries who would be excluded. This does not mean others could not calculate, but might come with a higher number of people to whom that's a difficulty and no fun, barring them off from the more detailed part of the game rules.
2. Additionally to the possibilities of education, consider that especially maths is a subject usually taught by the worst possible teachers (sorry towards all those who are not bad teachers. I mean the rest, which is a big one). Maths does not have it's bad reputation from nowhere. Many are bad at it simply due to bad schooling, diploma or not. Also, arithmasthenia is a thing at least as common as dyslexia ... which means: Quite common (the numbers I got reach up to 7% of worldwide population). It's simply not as well documented since it doesn't show as openly and people are hellishly ashamed due to being called stupid and "everyone can do maths", but it's just as serious as having massive difficulties to write correctly. Is that a reason to hinder people from playing games? 3rd party tools don't necessarily solve these issues, one still needs to "do the maths". And that's not a matter of more time needed or "get over it", it's usually paired with phobia, all in all destroying the fun a game could be. As a game dev, you never want to destroy your player's fun. Never ever. Guess that part needs no further explanation.
Atm, Neverwinter is try and error mostly, as well as lacking a serious impression what kind of influence e.g. Armor Pen or Accuracy have on one's actual dps. When I see someone with an insane amount of power, but low ArPen / Acc dealing thrice the dmg of someone with maxed stats, that raises questions on how to best develop one's own character. It's neither cheap or quick to try, and one cannot even exchange an enchantment and see without a lot of effort, copypaste and calculation what's happening. Players cannot be expected to know how the game calculates dmg, that's something special some people figure our, but nobody can be required to find out. People play games for fun. Not in order to be left behind because the game doesn't give them some basic infos without using 3rd party tools. I know NW isn't alone with this, but it's the only modern RPG along Diablo 3 I play despite of this usual practise, since I think it's a severe flaw in game design if you don't let your players know how to skill / gear up ... especially when changing their setup usually costs real money (which D3 does not: One can try around as much as you want with a rather clear preview).
Yes, it gets terribly easy with something like a dps meter, but did anyone here complain against the simple systems in games of the good old days like Icewind Dale? I don't think there is one player who ever cried for unnecessarily complicated systems.
Execution can apply to any enemy or even multiple enemies having 20% health left with 10% chance adding 200 magnitude to attacks. RECURRING MULTIPLE OF ANY ENEMY AT 20% HEALTH TO ADD 200, UNTIL ENEMY HEALTH IS GONE.
Edit: SORRY WAS TYPING DURING LUNCH BREAK.
Shadow's Flurry is just 5% chance with attacks and might as well be applying to each cycle from at-wills and encounters with only one strike. Still no one answered my question. Is the feat applied only to duelist flurry or any skill? How often a shadow figure is seen? That will tell probability outcomes during the whole dungeon. Why hasn't anyone answered the question? Might as well be a broken button slot roll for the chance at most?
How many cycles of skill rotations with 5% chance as compared to multiple enemies with 10% chance having 20% percent health left?
By the way I'm not trolling. The fact of the matter is suggested of favor for shadow's flurry over execution against me for discussion. Yet, kinda favoring towards execution to see if it's better; contradicting yourself. Why does it matter? It's truly just a game! Everyone gets the job done and has fun. Am I right, everyone has fun? Why be obsessed about something so small? If it's obviously something that lasts like duelist expertise, well pick it! Playing with probability chances, I just pick what is higher.
DPS meter can't determine, since it's so small and random chance.
I could shuffle pick the bag of enemies at 20% health with execution or I could pick instantly with shadow's flurry with each shuffle cycle of whatever clicked on keyboard by at-wills/encounters. It's your choice. 10% or 5% chance? How can a dps meter determine this? It can't! It can't tell every skill! Unless I'm wrong? Never have I used a dps meter! DPS meter is a waste of your time and just adds onto the obsessiveness. This why people resort to cheats! So stop it! Don't ruin a game for yourself! Just play a game!
In conclusion, faction of seconds don't matter! It's a game and everybody is at least successful in the end. I don't care how long it takes, because for me, I don't have the best gear. Yet I admit I always complete a dungeon run, unless no teamwork is involved. I died so many times with weaker gear and I admit I got through the dungeon with successful completion, even by myself. My item level is good at least now to get through faster. I even got through master expeditions with skullcracker feat! Your stats change with every gear and honesty you don't feel disadvantaged in any way, unless it's those switch o' roo gear lol. The point is having fun, because we all get through the dungeon. Am I stating real truth? Why be so obsessed about something so small? Seriously why?!
However, duelist expertise always lasts! Chances are better. DUH!
One feat off the advantage perhaps and doing fine. I mean really? I'm not obsessing over it really.
Execution can apply to any enemy or even multiple enemies having 20% health left with 10% chance adding 200 magnitude to attacks. RECURRING 200 MAGNITUDE TO ALL ATTACKS, UNTIL ENEMY HEALTH IS GONE.
Shadow's Flurry is just 5% chance with attacks and might as well be applying to each cycle from at-wills and encounters only once. Still no one answered my question. Is the feat applied only to duelist flurry or any skill? How often a shadow figure is seen? That will tell probability outcomes during the whole dungeon. Why hasn't anyone answered the question? Might as well be a broken button slot roll for the chance at most?
How many cycles of skill rotations with 5% chance as compared to multiple enemies with 10% chance having 20% percent health left?
By the way I'm not trolling. The fact of the matter is suggested of favor for shadow's flurry over execution against me for discussion. Yet, kinda favoring towards execution to see if it's better; contradicting yourself. Why does it matter? It's truly just a game! Everyone gets the job done and has fun. Am I right, everyone has fun? Why be obsessed about something so small? If it's obviously something that lasts like duelist expertise, well pick it! Playing with probability chances, I just pick what is higher.
DPS meter can't determine, since it's so small and random chance.
I could shuffle pick the bag of enemies with execution or I could pick instantly with shadow's flurry with each shuffle cycle of whatever clicked on keyboard by at-wills/encounters. It's your choice. 10% or 5% chance? How can a dps meter determine this? It can't! It can't tell every skill! Unless I'm wrong? Never have I used a dps meter! DPS meter is a waste of your time and just adds on to the obsessiveness. This why people resort to cheats! So stop it! Don't ruin a game for yourself! Just play a game!
In conclusion, faction of seconds don't matter! It's a game and everybody is at least successful in the end. I don't care how long it takes, because for me, I don't have the best gear. Yet I admit I always complete a dungeon run, unless no teamwork is involved. I died so many times with weaker gear and I admit I get through the dungeon with successful completion, even by myself. My item level is good at least now to get through faster. I even got through master expeditions with skullcracker! Your stats change with every gear and honesty you don't feel disadvantaged in any way, unless it's those switch o' roo gear lol. The point is having fun, because we all get through the dungeon. Am I stating real truth? Why be so obsessed about something so small? Seriously why?!
However, duelist expertise always lasts! Chances are better. DUH!
One feat off the advantage perhaps and doing fine. I mean really? I'm not obsessing over it really.
Seriously it does look like your trolling or you need to take your own advice that you gave me and reread the posts.
We have stated multiple times the Shadows Flurry apply to every single attack, not just to Duelist flurry. so:
Cloud of Daggers - 5% to proc shadows flurry smoke bomb - 5% to proc shadows flurry gloaming cut - 5% to proc shadows flurry assassinate - 5% to proc shadows flurry shocking execution - 5% to proc shadows flurry whirlind of blades - 5% to proc shadows flurry
etc etc etc.
Every single attack you make if you have this feat gives you a 5% chance to have the Shadow figure appear and make the attack.
Execution has a 2% chance to proc. It is not 10%. it is only 10% when they are under 20% health. You cant ignore this and have to factor it in. Due to this Execution will only proc 2% of the time during a dungeon run
Ok thank you. Now how often is it noticeable with shadow's flurry?
Also why are you still obsessing over this dps meter?
If asking for dps meter? You're obsessing over a small chance that can't be really determined! So tell me how many times noticed a shadow figure using shadow's flurry during master expeditions for example or a random queue dungeon? Tell me? Is it worth it? Because no one even answered my question!
It's just a game and I told you you're not going to get a dps meter! Face the reality! I swear if anyone starts using a third-party? Be prepared to face charges of getting yourself banned! End this thread and enjoy the game! It's better to discuss our classes because a dps meter can't determine probability!
It could be so many times for shadow's flurry to trigger.
It doesn't matter when execution applies to any enemy with 20% health left.
A dps meter can't determine probability! It will be so random! 10% is higher than 5%. Might as well be killing multiple of enemies and shadow's flurry never triggers hardly throughout the run. It's so random! I'm messing with probability and chances are 10% might be better? It's a 5% chance over shadow's flurry. You can't determine this well by each triggers in time, because it's random.
By the way a dps meter won't tell a feat triggered, which proves it's an obsession.
This is the icon for the skill timeout, it is not what I asked. I asked for how long the "buff" on the target will last. The buff doesn't lasts for a single attack, it lasts for a time.. how long that time?
0.
Because by the time I get to the mobs/boss, the other meatbags have already done the work for me.
If this is not the case, it means you're a terrible dictator and should get to work with your whip skills (or replace your math skills with links to Wolfram Alpha doing it for you, because ain't nobody got no time for that "math" stuff ).
Some more detailed metric for console would be nice though. something like an act log that shows what each thing contributed as a final page to the activity you've done.
Well, the console peasantes are in luck, said tool exists!
They can join the Console Preview Test Server® by going to this link and selecting the "Play for Free" button. After following the setup for the Console Preview Test Sever®, the console peasantes can then go to this link and to get a mod to enhance their experience. The console peasantes can then go to this link and grab an asset required to make that mod work on the console preview server. Make sure the mod can detect the asset file and then you can turn the mod on and off with "/combatlog1" and "/combatlog0" ingame.
Throw in a giant useless appendix at the end of your Sheeple Website Guide™ and that will impress anyone with your amazing multi-step presentation skills.
Alternatively, you could make a big giant Youtube video about how great you are and inevitably make mistakes. Instead of acknowledging the mistakes, you could just delete anyone providing logical proof just so you can say you are correct.
Either way, you have an amazing, ACT-like program available to console players that allows you to display your epeen with unparalleld precision!
This is the icon for the skill timeout, it is not what I asked. I asked for how long the "buff" on the target will last. The buff doesn't lasts for a single attack, it lasts for a time.. how long that time?
0.
Because by the time I get to the mobs/boss, the other meatbags have already done the work for me.
If this is not the case, it means you're a terrible dictator and should get to work with your whip skills (or replace your math skills with links to Wolfram Alpha doing it for you, because ain't nobody got no time for that "math" stuff ).
Some more detailed metric for console would be nice though. something like an act log that shows what each thing contributed as a final page to the activity you've done.
Well, the console peasantes are in luck, said tool exists!
They can join the Console Preview Test Server® by going to this link and selecting the "Play for Free" button. After following the setup for the Console Preview Test Sever®, the console peasantes can then go to this link and to get a mod to enhance their experience. The console peasantes can then go to this link and grab an asset required to make that mod work on the console preview server. Make sure the mod can detect the asset file and then you can turn the mod on and off with "/combatlog1" and "/combatlog0" ingame.
Throw in a giant useless appendix at the end of your Sheeple Website Guide™ and that will impress anyone with your amazing multi-step presentation skills.
Alternatively, you could make a big giant Youtube video about how great you are and inevitably make mistakes. Instead of acknowledging the mistakes, you could just delete anyone providing logical proof just so you can say you are correct.
Either way, you have an amazing, ACT-like program available to console players that allows you to display your epeen with unparalleld precision!
haha. but going to act on preview is still too much work since having an expensive end game toon with all the things is difficult to duplicate and using a controller vs not is very difficult for those of us who are used to controller and have the muscle memory for controller not keypad. but on the rest. lol.
It doesn't matter when execution applies to any enemy with 20% health left.
10% is higher than 5%. Might as well be killing multiple of enemies and shadow's flurry never triggers hardly throughout the run. It's so random! I'm messing with probability and chances are 10% might be better? It's a 5% chance over shadow's flurry. You can't determine this well by each triggers in time, because it's random.
Do you read things in game or on this forum at all?
The above quote from your last message is just straight wrong. It does not apply to any enemy with 20% health left. It is a 10% chance of doing an extra 200 magnitude of damage when they are at or below 20% health.
This means it is not a 10% chance. so no 10% is not higher than 5% in the occasion. Sure if you look at base numbers 10 > 5 but that does not apply here. Shadows Flurry is a static 5% all the time, so you are right in that is 5%. Execution is 10% chance only when the enemy is 20% or below. You have to consider both criteria. Therefore you have a 10% chance Multiplied by a 20% chance. This is 0.10 * 0.20 = 0.02 or 2%
5% (Shadows Flurry) is > 2% (Execution). Shadows flurry is quite noticeable. I see it happen all the time. It can be hard to miss as it spawns directly where you are standing but it happens.
You have stated multiple times that instead of having a tool, whether it be a straight dps meter or something more should be thrown out and people should be instead asking you for information, when you cant even grasp how the powers interact and have been wrong in explaining why one feat is better than the other.
First of all, I rather have someone who isn't the best dps in the world, but knows how to dodge, than a dps machine that can't. THAT'S A REALLY GOOD ARGUMENT ISN'T IT? If I'm slightly off my DPS with Shadow's Flurry vs Execution. WHO REALLY CARES?! So why does it matter? GET THE JOB DONE AND HAVE FUN PLAYING THE GAME! In fact I know DPS enough at least to help me. Especially why duelist expertise is an easy pick. I'm not going to worry about or have an obsession over just one little feat area comparison. If I'm slightly off one feat for DPS? I DON'T CARE! THUS THE REASON YOU'RE BEING OBSESSIVE!
[Shadow's Flurry] Your attacks have a 5% chance to spawn a shadowy figure that uses the final combo of Duelist's Flurry on the target -Any enemy. Multiple enemies.
[Execution] When an enemy has under 20% life, your attacks have a 10% chance to execute the target dealing 200 magnitude damage. -Yes it can apply to multiple enemies. Any enemy.
What's the probability of a drop at any time that is 1%? LIKE FOREVER!
So technically in theory, Execution might be better to help with that last bit of killing of enemies faster or not? Who really cares? I'm not obsessing and why should you? Besides there are 2 layouts to test!
Ok this isn't accurate by the seconds. I'm just trying to give perspective by how probability applies at any moment. Given that Execution and Shadow's Flurry might as well be applying for each skill cooldown hit for example. Perhaps faction of seconds that Execution will be an advantage, since it's 5% chance more than Shadow's Flurry? It's random and it's a small chance for the feat to trigger that NO DPS METER CAN DETERMINE!
This is just a drop rate site and it's at any given time. Now is 10% better at any given time?
I literally have 65% with 10 tries with Execution as compared to 21-22 tries with Shadow's Flurry to even get 65%. Take into account with skill cycle duration and cooldown dealing with. Might as well be applied this way? Each time clicking an encounter, at-will, and daily power-the chance is applied to any enemy. Is Execution better? Maybe at some times?
I might be wrong or not at all? Might be close to equal by numbers in given time for occurrence during dungeon runs, so it varies. Execution seems it occurs more often at times. Also to adding the time of dodging attacks from enemies. How can any DPS meter determine? It can't! Why not have something that helps with the last bits of enemy health more often? Why not relate something like Last Moments feat from Mod 15 (Rogue), well why not? I'm just stating my mind. I'm making a point here that you're obsessing over it! Perhaps I will test out for myself on Shadow's Flurry to see if it's worth the occurrence of happening often during a dungeon run?
You really think a DPS meter can determine? No it can't! I'm not trolling. I'm just discussing probability to make a point that a DPS meter can't determine probability and it's pointless! It's an excuse for your obsession!
I'm literally stating that it's a game! A GAME! In this game, everyone gets the job done! PLAY THE GAME AND STOP OBSESSING OVER THE LITTLEST OUTCOMES!
By the way you're breaking the TOS @rjc9000 for providing a third-party program by link on the forums! So I advise to end this thread! I hope you're banned soon @rjc9000 - I don't like anyone asking for a DPS meter or promoting one and I'm very sure Cryptic/PWE doesn't like it either! I'm sure everyone asking for a DPS meter, the answer is NO!
Post edited by mwk on
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
lol, I agree, Janne. somehow no matter how many times we write it down that Execution is a 2% chance he just completely ignores us and continues to wrongly state 10% over and over.
For anyone else who was reading this thread, i am sorry for sort of Highjacking this but i give everyone a warning. Do not listen to advice on powers/feat etc from MWK, he clearly does not understand how math works.
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
edited August 2019
Interesting topic.
Many threads on expanding the scoreboard, for example, with "ACT-like" detail. Took uses ACT with satisfaction. But understands OP's desire for in-game data.
... and diversion of ever-decreasing Cryptic developer resources. They only have so much bandwidth. Could think of a few dozen projects that would have higher return on player satisfaction.
Took wouldn't kick an "in-game ACT" out of bed. But tanks are the ones starved for data, not DPS.
How about a quantifiable tank scoreboard? Threat per second. Threat per encounter. %Mobs aggroed. And one overall "Tank Score".
Tank Score = [(Total Threat Generated) x (Tank Incoming Damage)] / [(Total Enemy HP) x (Party Incoming Damage)]
Now that would be useful data we have never seen before.
Edit: (Total Enemy HP) should be in the numerator. Tooks are bad at math. Will leave the equations to Janne.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Comments
Execution is not 100% of it happening. It only happens when enemy is at or below 20%. that means it only works 20% of the time at maximum. Then you have to use the 10% proc chance. so you have 20%*10% which is 0.2*0.1 = 0.02 or 2% Compared to Shadows flurry which can happen at any time 5% of the time.
So you are comparing 5% to 2% chances for the extra damage. In a short fight sure the execution might hit harder than the flurry will but normal mobs die pretty damn quickly anyways it doesn't matter. In longer boss fights that extra 3% proc chance is going to count for a lot more damage than execution will. Which is exactly why every TR guide out there advises you to take Shadows Flurry over Execution.
Anyone who thinks differently, point me towards them, and we will do it the old fashion way:
I think that's the point. Tools allow to make a better and more informative decision. It's only some people choice to use them as negative.
10% x 10=100% of it happening. [Execution using other attacks=10 times clicking on skills and perhaps 30 seconds of your time-given that it's like 3 seconds or less to be able to hit the keyboard for next encounter]
5% x 20=100% of it happening. [Shadows Flurry-9 secs for each cycle=180 secs of wasting your time!]
-That's what I stated and you stated 100% of happening on Execution? No I stated x10 as compared x20. Just re-read.
Yeah you don't know how or when? But isn't 10% chance better than 5%? You're going to for the more damage!
Duelist expertise does less damage than skullcracker, which is more damage, but skullcracker is every 15 seconds once as I relate example. So are you really going to waste your time? It could be every cycle 20X of duelist flurry? I'm applying that way. Do you expect 5% each chance on each attack during duelist flurry? I don't think it works like that! That 10% is helping on the last bits on enemy health. I could apply 10 enemies, then execution triggers. How long does it take to kill an enemy? Not long! I mean I'm just thinking outside the box. Sure enough 10% is better than 5%. That's just my opinion.
I get your point that I might seem a bit off to make a good argument now based on outside thinking. However, seriously I despise DPS METERS with every passion! I'm trying to help and it works for me OK! I rather have some discussion about classes than some pointless DPS METER!
[NOW LETS GET REAL!]
I just can't believe that people have this obsession! ABSOLUTE OBSESSION OVER A GAME that is literally just a GAME! YOU GET THE JOB DONE, EVEN IF IT'S A FACTION OF SEC BY WHAT FEAT YOU CHOSE BY COMPARISON! It's all fun and battle. DPS METERS RUINED A PAST GAME FOR ME! FOR THE RECORD YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ONE! If this game is ruined for me like the last game I played by some players resorting to some third-party DPS Meter, after mentioning for the game implementation, and not receiving it? Call me paranoid! I'm not dealing with this again! AND I'M ABOUT TO SNAP AT SOMEONE MENTIONING A TYPE OF DPS METER, WHICH IN FACT IS BREAKING THE TOS! END THIS THREAD because the moderators can literally turn this around against mentioning such nature upon you! We have forums and that's the reason to discuss our classes. Risk yourselves! Go ahead and break yourselves from the game! IT'S A GAME, so don't ruin it for the community and don't ruin it for yourselves using such nature! AM I CLEAR?
Again we have forums to discuss classes. I'm actually enjoying discussing more than some DPS METER that is pointless that I will never ever use! Forums are supposed to be shares with our experiences. Sorry it has to be my experiences with dealing with a past game that got me paranoid. It's a long story, but short. Asking for a DPS Meter, when not received, then promotes a creation of one for third-party use. DPS Meters created prejudice upon players by it's illegal third-party use later on. Then promoted exploits and cheats. CALL IT OBSESSION! ABSOLUTE OBSESSION! So I despise and I'm sorry for being so harsh. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A DPS METER EVER! All this nature gave XIGNCODE that was literally incompatible on some community and myself to cause a BSOD, which I will get technical to show that's the anti-cheat's fault! I'm fine with anti-cheat programs. It's just I don't like something opening my computer like some rootkit and literally causing such nature to open for vulnerability and cause a BSOD with its incompetent functioning to actually work. Seriously please, don't ruin this game for me! I had to literally ask for improvement of this incompetent anti-cheat that was later removed because the funny thing is that it ended up ineffective. Sure enough the anti-cheat XIGNCODE is easy to bypass-LIKE REALLY? The company couldn't deal with any cheaters and that made me more mad! I asked for an improvement or something better for months and I get called out by support! Support called me, "hype beast or a sith that deals with absolute reasoning". Worst experience of my life! I got banned for abusing the support asking for help, when support did nothing for months for an improvement of XIGNCODE to tell the developers the issues! I swear I was civil on every support ticket and support just didn't want to deal with me anymore. NOTHING and I couldn't play a game! Funny thing is that it could be as simple as upgrading my Microsoft Visual for XIGNCODE to function its C++ properly, which the anti-cheat ran on by function anyways; I found out later after the ridiculous ban. Like how am I supposed to know? Support didn't help me by stating anything like that to try. Yet, that's not always the case and I can will explain that too if you like? XIGNCODE could crash the memory of SSDs by writing so many logs of information also. I have evidence that is so legitimate, it's a laughable anti-cheat!
I'm not going to deal with another horrible experience!
So I admit I think it's better for discussion about classes here on forums. Can we please close this thread? PLEASE! Besides we have 2 layouts to test our classes if that's a problem? Perhaps Cryptic needs to make it so we can change our feats whenever we like.
See what i bolded. Maybe i misinterpreted what you were saying as 100% chance instead of being the combined 100% chance after using 10 attacks. Even still this is also wrong. Just because you use a 10% proc ability does not guarantee you that it will proc on every 10th attack. It could proc on attempts 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, and 10 or it could not proc for 100 times straight.
Also for some reason your example is only using DF as the base power. Both abilities will trigger on any power that you are using. I can throw a single dagger and have Flurry trigger i dont have to spend 180 seconds doing 20 DF's to get it to trigger.
You still seem to be pushing that Execution is a better feat than Shadows Flurry and in actual real game play is far inferior. This type of data is easy to see using monitoring tools which you seem vehemently against.
Who cares about damage, when in fact skullcracker does more damage with one hit every 15 seconds vs duelist expertise that occurs more often with less damage, which everyone is going for duelist expertise.
It's like stating Shadow's Flurry does more damage and Execution is less damage with 10% chance. Follow me? I rather have a chance of 10% >5%.
By the @micky1p00, skullcracker pops up every 15 seconds once for single hit. Skullcracker is one hit and literally lasts, until it's used; the icon shows it near your health bar.
How I tested this? Skullcracker icon stayed after a battle, until used once by an attack.
Duelist expertise lasts longer and it's not a single hit.
It was said above that almost every TR guide recommends Flurry over Executioner, there is a reason I chose to quiz you on these two feats and not others.
If we had a DPS meter, or a damage log, we will do the following, get some static damage weapons, go hit a dummy and discover something....
(Or read the tooltips more carefully, but those, historically, not worth much to begin with)
Imagine what a DPS meter would look like XD I picture an RPM gauge like a racing game lol This makes me soooo excited for something that will never come lmao
IMO An ingame breakdown wouldn't be a bad thing, an efficiency meter would be a bad thing. Showing someone they suck is def different than showing someone how they can improve.
Probably doesn't matter how many times duelist flurry is used for shadow's flurry. Probably doesn't matter how many times of 20% of health left from an enemy.
10% of something is 10% of happening.
10% of something happening, I'm taking it!
It like playing with a slot machine.
I'm applying that execution and shadow's flurry is always cycling like a slot machine. Doesn't matter how many times! It decides for itself.
Probability. You learned it in school.
How many times duelist flurry?
How many times for 20% health left each by seconds?
If something is 10% the probability is better.
It might take forever for shadow's flurry?
How can it be determined with a DPS meter? You can't! Stop being so obsessed and play the game! You get it done! So why does it matter?! I'm relying more on my dps with execution. Shadow flurry might not even proc hardly as ever?!
Lets say we have 100 apples, 80 green, 20 red.
You are given two options:
First one is take all the red apples, and roll for each a dice of 100, if the number is 1 to 10, the apple is yours.
Second one, take all the apples, and for each single apple roll the same dice of 100, if the number is 1-5, the apple is yours.
Now simplifying this, on average, in option one, you get 10% of the red apples, which is 2 apples.
In the second option you get 5% of the 100% apples, which is 5 apples.
This is conditional probability, you can't just ignore the 20% health. The probability for it to proc, out of all your attacks (in a simplification), is 0.2 * 0.1 = 0.02 which is 2% and not 10%
10% or 5%?
Not spamming duelist flurry all the time and execution applies to all skills with 10% chance with 20% left health from an enemy.
Hmmm... this is fun discussion. Yet it's just a game right? Everyone end with getting the dungeon done.
Might as well be getting 0-1 shadow's flurry during a whole dungeon, given 5% chance.
Might as well be getting 0-3 execution during a whole dungeon, given 10% chance.
Who knows? Probability chance is higher, it's better right?
Rolling slots machine and hitting a button to stop. I'm using all my skills with execution. Doesn't matter when. If game has more chance? Take the 10% chance, because it stops at 20% enemy health. Probability.
Shadow's flurry might as well be stopping on each cycle of duelist flurry, which is 9 seconds.
How many times to get a certain number on a dice?
Let's state that 2 numbers of 7 on a dice...more chance to get a 7.
I'm done, but really it's just a game!
Does shadow's flurry apply to all skills or just duelist flurry?
In a dungeon, how often (count it) for a noticeable shadow figure during skills or even an extra shadow figure during duelist flurry?
So is 10% better? Doesn't matter when a slot machine stops. 10% of winning. More chance. That's my opinion for Execution feat.
Who knows when shadow's flurry will trigger during a boss? Probably not at all?!
Since applying that a dps meter is needed, why try to convince me that shadow's flurry is better? Why does it matter? Yet, discussing things might help for insights for classes here on forums as always. It was fun discussing this.
Basically contradicted yourself asking for a dps meter, stating that shadow's flurry is better. This is actually hilarious! Ridiculous isn't it? It's just a game!
Some more detailed metric for console would be nice though. something like an act log that shows what each thing contributed as a final page to the activity you've done. or a test area you enter that records everything. but just having a dps meter showing what you're doing.. I don't think that would really tell you that much. is it this or is it that. is it a fluke.. is it not. having an overall metric would be better.. but I wouldn't yell, NOOO don't do it. really this game can already be toxic af. I doubt it would honestly make it worse lol
The messages from @akemnos as well as from @micky1p00 are extremely clear.
To be clear, I'm a TR as a main. What they are saying to you is: yes, you have 10% probability to that feat BUT (and the "but" is huge) it procs ONLY when enemies are equal or below 20% of their health points. This means that above this quantity (which is 4/5 of the time) you HAVE NOT the proc of this feat.
The other one have, yes, 5% probability BUT it can proc everytime with everypower you use (at-wills, encounters, dailies).
If you apply a simple math (the primary school math it enough) you can see:
10% x 20% = 0.1 x 0.2 = 0.02 = 2% of probability.
5% x 100% = 0.5 x 1 = 5% of probability.
(It doesn't seem that you got the point, that's why I repeated it).
To come back to the purpose of the post:
For me there are no problems at all to have or have not this kind of programs in game. The specific request from the post opener is to have it in game in order to don't instal 3rd part softwares. I agree with that and again, there are no problems for me. Maybe it could be useful for the people would like to increase their performance in game.
And at the same point, for who don't want to use them it's simple. It's not mandatory to use such programs. They can play and have fun as well without taking care about min/max damage/heals output.
"5% probability BUT it can proc everytime with everypower you use (at-wills, encounters, dailies)."
so yes Shadows Flurry is a much better choice at 5% proc chance compared to 2% proc chance of Execution. Having a "DPS meter" that will effectively show this in game (especially for Consoles who cant use Act) can be a huge boon. By using tools such as this people can easily experiment "in real time" with different power setups instead of waiting 10 minutes to an hour to complete a dungeon to see a paingiver chart.
In actuality, in my opinion, this is becoming more and more of an important issue since Cryptic seems to be moving towards a DPS check meta in the latest dungeons (CR, Lomm and two in Tomm). People need to be able to understand more easily what the differences are between different powers and feats and how they interact with each other.
1. This is an international game. A lot of the world has internet access. High School diploma, as sandukutupu stated, is actually pretty well educated. Not all the world has this possibility, but does anybody here seriously want to exclude people who don't have access to this kind of school? There are enough people in 1st world countries who would be excluded. This does not mean others could not calculate, but might come with a higher number of people to whom that's a difficulty and no fun, barring them off from the more detailed part of the game rules.
2. Additionally to the possibilities of education, consider that especially maths is a subject usually taught by the worst possible teachers (sorry towards all those who are not bad teachers. I mean the rest, which is a big one). Maths does not have it's bad reputation from nowhere. Many are bad at it simply due to bad schooling, diploma or not. Also, arithmasthenia is a thing at least as common as dyslexia ... which means: Quite common (the numbers I got reach up to 7% of worldwide population). It's simply not as well documented since it doesn't show as openly and people are hellishly ashamed due to being called stupid and "everyone can do maths", but it's just as serious as having massive difficulties to write correctly. Is that a reason to hinder people from playing games? 3rd party tools don't necessarily solve these issues, one still needs to "do the maths". And that's not a matter of more time needed or "get over it", it's usually paired with phobia, all in all destroying the fun a game could be. As a game dev, you never want to destroy your player's fun. Never ever. Guess that part needs no further explanation.
Atm, Neverwinter is try and error mostly, as well as lacking a serious impression what kind of influence e.g. Armor Pen or Accuracy have on one's actual dps. When I see someone with an insane amount of power, but low ArPen / Acc dealing thrice the dmg of someone with maxed stats, that raises questions on how to best develop one's own character. It's neither cheap or quick to try, and one cannot even exchange an enchantment and see without a lot of effort, copypaste and calculation what's happening. Players cannot be expected to know how the game calculates dmg, that's something special some people figure our, but nobody can be required to find out.
People play games for fun. Not in order to be left behind because the game doesn't give them some basic infos without using 3rd party tools. I know NW isn't alone with this, but it's the only modern RPG along Diablo 3 I play despite of this usual practise, since I think it's a severe flaw in game design if you don't let your players know how to skill / gear up ... especially when changing their setup usually costs real money (which D3 does not: One can try around as much as you want with a rather clear preview).
Yes, it gets terribly easy with something like a dps meter, but did anyone here complain against the simple systems in games of the good old days like Icewind Dale? I don't think there is one player who ever cried for unnecessarily complicated systems.
Edit: SORRY WAS TYPING DURING LUNCH BREAK.
Shadow's Flurry is just 5% chance with attacks and might as well be applying to each cycle from at-wills and encounters with only one strike. Still no one answered my question. Is the feat applied only to duelist flurry or any skill? How often a shadow figure is seen? That will tell probability outcomes during the whole dungeon. Why hasn't anyone answered the question? Might as well be a broken button slot roll for the chance at most?
How many cycles of skill rotations with 5% chance as compared to multiple enemies with 10% chance having 20% percent health left?
By the way I'm not trolling. The fact of the matter is suggested of favor for shadow's flurry over execution against me for discussion. Yet, kinda favoring towards execution to see if it's better; contradicting yourself. Why does it matter? It's truly just a game! Everyone gets the job done and has fun. Am I right, everyone has fun? Why be obsessed about something so small? If it's obviously something that lasts like duelist expertise, well pick it! Playing with probability chances, I just pick what is higher.
DPS meter can't determine, since it's so small and random chance.
I could shuffle pick the bag of enemies at 20% health with execution or I could pick instantly with shadow's flurry with each shuffle cycle of whatever clicked on keyboard by at-wills/encounters. It's your choice. 10% or 5% chance? How can a dps meter determine this? It can't! It can't tell every skill! Unless I'm wrong? Never have I used a dps meter! DPS meter is a waste of your time and just adds onto the obsessiveness. This why people resort to cheats! So stop it! Don't ruin a game for yourself! Just play a game!
In conclusion, faction of seconds don't matter! It's a game and everybody is at least successful in the end. I don't care how long it takes, because for me, I don't have the best gear. Yet I admit I always complete a dungeon run, unless no teamwork is involved. I died so many times with weaker gear and I admit I got through the dungeon with successful completion, even by myself. My item level is good at least now to get through faster. I even got through master expeditions with skullcracker feat! Your stats change with every gear and honesty you don't feel disadvantaged in any way, unless it's those switch o' roo gear lol. The point is having fun, because we all get through the dungeon. Am I stating real truth? Why be so obsessed about something so small? Seriously why?!
However, duelist expertise always lasts! Chances are better. DUH!
One feat off the advantage perhaps and doing fine. I mean really? I'm not obsessing over it really.
We have stated multiple times the Shadows Flurry apply to every single attack, not just to Duelist flurry. so:
Cloud of Daggers - 5% to proc shadows flurry
smoke bomb - 5% to proc shadows flurry
gloaming cut - 5% to proc shadows flurry
assassinate - 5% to proc shadows flurry
shocking execution - 5% to proc shadows flurry
whirlind of blades - 5% to proc shadows flurry
etc etc etc.
Every single attack you make if you have this feat gives you a 5% chance to have the Shadow figure appear and make the attack.
Execution has a 2% chance to proc. It is not 10%. it is only 10% when they are under 20% health. You cant ignore this and have to factor it in. Due to this Execution will only proc 2% of the time during a dungeon run
Also why are you still obsessing over this dps meter?
If asking for dps meter? You're obsessing over a small chance that can't be really determined! So tell me how many times noticed a shadow figure using shadow's flurry during master expeditions for example or a random queue dungeon? Tell me? Is it worth it? Because no one even answered my question!
It's just a game and I told you you're not going to get a dps meter! Face the reality! I swear if anyone starts using a third-party? Be prepared to face charges of getting yourself banned! End this thread and enjoy the game! It's better to discuss our classes because a dps meter can't determine probability!
It could be so many times for shadow's flurry to trigger.
It doesn't matter when execution applies to any enemy with 20% health left.
A dps meter can't determine probability! It will be so random! 10% is higher than 5%. Might as well be killing multiple of enemies and shadow's flurry never triggers hardly throughout the run. It's so random! I'm messing with probability and chances are 10% might be better? It's a 5% chance over shadow's flurry. You can't determine this well by each triggers in time, because it's random.
By the way a dps meter won't tell a feat triggered, which proves it's an obsession.
Because by the time I get to the mobs/boss, the other meatbags have already done the work for me.
If this is not the case, it means you're a terrible dictator and should get to work with your whip skills (or replace your math skills with links to Wolfram Alpha doing it for you, because ain't nobody got no time for that "math" stuff
They can join the Console Preview Test Server® by going to this link and selecting the "Play for Free" button. After following the setup for the Console Preview Test Sever®, the console peasantes can then go to this link and to get a mod to enhance their experience. The console peasantes can then go to this link and grab an asset required to make that mod work on the console preview server. Make sure the mod can detect the asset file and then you can turn the mod on and off with "/combatlog1" and "/combatlog0" ingame.
Throw in a giant useless appendix at the end of your Sheeple Website Guide™ and that will impress anyone with your amazing multi-step presentation skills.
Alternatively, you could make a big giant Youtube video about how great you are and inevitably make mistakes. Instead of acknowledging the mistakes, you could just delete anyone providing logical proof just so you can say you are correct.
Either way, you have an amazing, ACT-like program available to console players that allows you to display your epeen with unparalleld precision!
The above quote from your last message is just straight wrong. It does not apply to any enemy with 20% health left. It is a 10% chance of doing an extra 200 magnitude of damage when they are at or below 20% health.
This means it is not a 10% chance. so no 10% is not higher than 5% in the occasion. Sure if you look at base numbers 10 > 5 but that does not apply here. Shadows Flurry is a static 5% all the time, so you are right in that is 5%. Execution is 10% chance only when the enemy is 20% or below. You have to consider both criteria. Therefore you have a 10% chance Multiplied by a 20% chance. This is 0.10 * 0.20 = 0.02 or 2%
5% (Shadows Flurry) is > 2% (Execution). Shadows flurry is quite noticeable. I see it happen all the time. It can be hard to miss as it spawns directly where you are standing but it happens.
You have stated multiple times that instead of having a tool, whether it be a straight dps meter or something more should be thrown out and people should be instead asking you for information, when you cant even grasp how the powers interact and have been wrong in explaining why one feat is better than the other.
[Shadow's Flurry]
Your attacks have a 5% chance to spawn a shadowy figure that uses the final combo of Duelist's Flurry on the target
-Any enemy. Multiple enemies.
[Execution]
When an enemy has under 20% life, your attacks have a 10% chance to execute the target dealing 200 magnitude damage.
-Yes it can apply to multiple enemies. Any enemy.
What's the probability of a drop at any time that is 1%? LIKE FOREVER!
So technically in theory, Execution might be better to help with that last bit of killing of enemies faster or not? Who really cares? I'm not obsessing and why should you? Besides there are 2 layouts to test!
Ok this isn't accurate by the seconds. I'm just trying to give perspective by how probability applies at any moment. Given that Execution and Shadow's Flurry might as well be applying for each skill cooldown hit for example. Perhaps faction of seconds that Execution will be an advantage, since it's 5% chance more than Shadow's Flurry? It's random and it's a small chance for the feat to trigger that NO DPS METER CAN DETERMINE!
This is just a drop rate site and it's at any given time. Now is 10% better at any given time?
I literally have 65% with 10 tries with Execution as compared to 21-22 tries with Shadow's Flurry to even get 65%. Take into account with skill cycle duration and cooldown dealing with. Might as well be applied this way? Each time clicking an encounter, at-will, and daily power-the chance is applied to any enemy. Is Execution better? Maybe at some times?
I might be wrong or not at all? Might be close to equal by numbers in given time for occurrence during dungeon runs, so it varies. Execution seems it occurs more often at times. Also to adding the time of dodging attacks from enemies. How can any DPS meter determine? It can't! Why not have something that helps with the last bits of enemy health more often? Why not relate something like Last Moments feat from Mod 15 (Rogue), well why not? I'm just stating my mind. I'm making a point here that you're obsessing over it! Perhaps I will test out for myself on Shadow's Flurry to see if it's worth the occurrence of happening often during a dungeon run?
You really think a DPS meter can determine? No it can't! I'm not trolling. I'm just discussing probability to make a point that a DPS meter can't determine probability and it's pointless! It's an excuse for your obsession!
I'm literally stating that it's a game! A GAME! In this game, everyone gets the job done! PLAY THE GAME AND STOP OBSESSING OVER THE LITTLEST OUTCOMES!
By the way you're breaking the TOS @rjc9000 for providing a third-party program by link on the forums! So I advise to end this thread! I hope you're banned soon @rjc9000 - I don't like anyone asking for a DPS meter or promoting one and I'm very sure Cryptic/PWE doesn't like it either! I'm sure everyone asking for a DPS meter, the answer is NO!
For anyone else who was reading this thread, i am sorry for sort of Highjacking this but i give everyone a warning. Do not listen to advice on powers/feat etc from MWK, he clearly does not understand how math works.
Many threads on expanding the scoreboard, for example, with "ACT-like" detail.
Took uses ACT with satisfaction. But understands OP's desire for in-game data.
The obvious objections are amplified toxicity...
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/4352263
... and diversion of ever-decreasing Cryptic developer resources.
They only have so much bandwidth.
Could think of a few dozen projects that would have higher return on player satisfaction.
Took wouldn't kick an "in-game ACT" out of bed.
But tanks are the ones starved for data, not DPS.
How about a quantifiable tank scoreboard?
Threat per second. Threat per encounter. %Mobs aggroed.
And one overall "Tank Score".
Tank Score = [(Total Threat Generated) x (Tank Incoming Damage)] / [(Total Enemy HP) x (Party Incoming Damage)]
Now that would be useful data we have never seen before.
Edit:
(Total Enemy HP) should be in the numerator.
Tooks are bad at math. Will leave the equations to Janne.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.