> I agree that there is a problem related to content requiring too complex coordination. If the coordination is so complex you must have voice in the group, a lot of players will be left out.
> * People with hearing impairments
> * People with missing english language skills(unless they play in a local language team)
> * People that for various reasons cannot have (loud) sound on and cannot wear headphones(typical family/parent setting)
>
> It is very possible to make hard content without making it extremely coordination demanding.
Content that is very hard and requires no communication? How does that look like?
Im sorry for ppl who arent able to use voicechat because of reasons they cant influence. But to have to design all content in the game arround that seems not like a good solution.
Do u also complain that Legs are usefull for playing soccer and the game should be changed so ppl in wheelchairs can compete equally?
It is very possible to make hard content that does not require coordination at a level that demands voice.
And it might be the best option for Cryptic to do that. NW is largely aimed at fairly casual customers.
The trend is that most/all mmorpgs cater to the casual customers today since that is where the masses and the money are.
But people didn't ask for more challenging content that does not require coordination from the group (party) dynamic...
As I already said:
The simply stated "Game Content Is Now Too Easy" and the request/wish for less "easy" - more challenging content, appears to have been delivered... that also seems to require the coordinated participation of the group and party to successfully complete the content seems like the classic case of the Jinn's wish to me.
i dont want harder play, and not too easy either, appear that we come to "Goldilocks", seem it was only way the devs to provide contents. i found Barovia Hunt is right on track, base on scale of cards' tiers, some want hardmode. and i repeat Tales of the Old isnt right concept. it block other players not getting fullfilled the goal. we need new variation of "Challenge Shards" and use it at leaders' choice and good group, to allow them to pick types of hardmode play. hardmode plays allow extra amount of gold dropped, kits, potions, and better chances at epic insignas if it drops, while normal mode stays as normal run and decent rewards if players dont want harder challenges.
Undermountain's Watcher challenges is almost as good call, they are tougher and the combat scripts are not that essessive, just good enough, it allow some players to find their own Threshold base.
i dont want harder play, and not too easy either, appear that we come to "Goldilocks", seem it was only way the devs to provide contents. i found Barovia Hunt is right on track, base on scale of cards' tiers, some want hardmode. and i repeat Tales of the Old isnt right concept. it block other players not getting fullfilled the goal. we need new variation of "Challenge Shards" and use it at leaders' choice and good group, to allow them to pick types of hardmode play. hardmode plays allow extra amount of gold dropped, kits, potions, and better chances at epic insignas if it drops, while normal mode stays as normal run and decent rewards if players dont want harder challenges.
Undermountain's Watcher challenges is almost as good call, they are tougher and the combat scripts are not that essessive, just good enough, it allow some players to find their own Threshold base.
the thing is that barovia cards didnt over a "hard mode" they were still easy.
Player preference of "hard mode" will never be the same. That is why I agree with mod 17. They introduced a hardcore trial without affecting the difficulty of overall content. They "add" and not "change". That's the key in my opinion.
It is possible to carry one DPS in LoMM now. Last night my random group carried a new barely 20K iLvl player with all purple equipment and an Angel of Protection for pet. And my Assassin is only 21K with 139K power was paingiver by far.
Just the other day, I lucked out and got in a run with thefabricant and I felt like I got carried. I'd imagine the very well-geared and well-connected people are running LoMM like we used to run eToS.
i dont want harder play, and not too easy either, appear that we come to "Goldilocks", seem it was only way the devs to provide contents. i found Barovia Hunt is right on track, base on scale of cards' tiers, some want hardmode. and i repeat Tales of the Old isnt right concept. it block other players not getting fullfilled the goal. we need new variation of "Challenge Shards" and use it at leaders' choice and good group, to allow them to pick types of hardmode play. hardmode plays allow extra amount of gold dropped, kits, potions, and better chances at epic insignas if it drops, while normal mode stays as normal run and decent rewards if players dont want harder challenges.
Undermountain's Watcher challenges is almost as good call, they are tougher and the combat scripts are not that essessive, just good enough, it allow some players to find their own Threshold base.
the thing is that barovia cards didnt over a "hard mode" they were still easy.
Not back when it was released they weren't.
They were very interesting at the beginning and some were tough. STILL ht best mechanic Neverwinter Devs ever came up with. Would LOVE those hunts to drop decent refining stuff so we could run them again!
2
urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
It seems fine for solo play.
I am very happy with it now
1
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
i dont want harder play, and not too easy either, appear that we come to "Goldilocks", seem it was only way the devs to provide contents. i found Barovia Hunt is right on track, base on scale of cards' tiers, some want hardmode. and i repeat Tales of the Old isnt right concept. it block other players not getting fullfilled the goal. we need new variation of "Challenge Shards" and use it at leaders' choice and good group, to allow them to pick types of hardmode play. hardmode plays allow extra amount of gold dropped, kits, potions, and better chances at epic insignas if it drops, while normal mode stays as normal run and decent rewards if players dont want harder challenges.
Undermountain's Watcher challenges is almost as good call, they are tougher and the combat scripts are not that essessive, just good enough, it allow some players to find their own Threshold base.
the thing is that barovia cards didnt over a "hard mode" they were still easy.
Not back when it was released they weren't.
They were very interesting at the beginning and some were tough. STILL ht best mechanic Neverwinter Devs ever came up with. Would LOVE those hunts to drop decent refining stuff so we could run them again!
When they came out at the start of m14 we were already soloing them...
But people didn't ask for more challenging content that does not require coordination from the group (party) dynamic...
As I already said:
The simply stated "Game Content Is Now Too Easy" and the request/wish for less "easy" - more challenging content, appears to have been delivered... that also seems to require the coordinated participation of the group and party to successfully complete the content seems like the classic case of the Jinn's wish to me.
Not really, those of us who wanted harder content are happy with what we got and want more content like this. We got exactly what we asked for.
If only there was some way both camps here could be happy. Some wild and crazy way that both sides could experience the same content.
Something like an...epic version of a dungeon that offers up a challenge to those of us that would like to take it on. And then an almost alternate version of that same dungeon that's dumbed down for the rest of the community. I'll call this, for lack of a better term, the normal version.
That's a novel idea. A normal and epic version of each piece of content. God I feel like I've seen that somewhere before.....
Obviously, better rewards for the harder content.
The real question at that point would be.....how long before the weaker players complain that they can't get better loot because the normal version is still too hard for them....
Outside of making a normal/epic version of each dungeon I guess the only other thing to say is....life's not fair, we're all not meant to be able to do the same thing at the same level, and if the devs made harder content it's for a reason. So improve and work up to it.
Also, more group content please. These issues are minimized if you find a way to release more than 1 piece of group content every mod targeting more than 1 portion of your playerbase.
Well there is literally no reason for me to play Mod 17.
I main a Barbarian, and from what I understand, not even BIS Barbarians are wanted in the new trial, and my character is not even close to BIS.
My other character, a Cleric, is also about 2k short of the 25k requirement. And that is with Rank 20 SH guild boons and a legendary mount. So I have no idea how to get 2,000 more Ilevel, even if I *wanted* to play a healbot (which I don't).
So I guess I will pick up my daily VIP key and maybe craft some things, in anticipation of Mod 18 which hopefully will have some Masterwork updates, and *NEW* content for the *MAJORITY* of players.
Well there is literally no reason for me to play Mod 17.
I main a Barbarian, and from what I understand, not even BIS Barbarians are wanted in the new trial, and my character is not even close to BIS.
My other character, a Cleric, is also about 2k short of the 25k requirement. And that is with Rank 20 SH guild boons and a legendary mount. So I have no idea how to get 2,000 more Ilevel, even if I *wanted* to play a healbot (which I don't).
So I guess I will pick up my daily VIP key and maybe craft some things, in anticipation of Mod 18 which hopefully will have some Masterwork updates, and *NEW* content for the *MAJORITY* of players.
Firstly why dont u wait till the new mod to see which classes are "wanted" And secondly, if you want to run the new trial, id hope for u that u have some kind of Guild/friendgroup etc in game. U will need voice communication etc anyways (especially at the start) and they hopefully shoudlnt exclude u only cause u play a barb (given that u play it good)
If only there was some way both camps here could be happy. Some wild and crazy way that both sides could experience the same content.
Something like an...epic version of a dungeon that offers up a challenge to those of us that would like to take it on. And then an almost alternate version of that same dungeon that's dumbed down for the rest of the community. I'll call this, for lack of a better term, the normal version.
That's a novel idea. A normal and epic version of each piece of content. God I feel like I've seen that somewhere before.....
Obviously, better rewards for the harder content.
The real question at that point would be.....how long before the weaker players complain that they can't get better loot because the normal version is still too hard for them....
Outside of making a normal/epic version of each dungeon I guess the only other thing to say is....life's not fair, we're all not meant to be able to do the same thing at the same level, and if the devs made harder content it's for a reason. So improve and work up to it.
Also, more group content please. These issues are minimized if you find a way to release more than 1 piece of group content every mod targeting more than 1 portion of your playerbase.
Yep, I too believe there is a way for both camps to be appeased and I think we saw it with the initial introduction of Mod16 and character "scaling"...
Some weaker players will always complain they want "better stuff", simply pointing out the way for them to get better stuff is to become better (higher level) players and queue for more difficult content should be sufficient guidance to put those complaints to rest... now obviously if someone complains they want better stuff, but they aren't willing to put forth the time and effort to become better, higher level players - then just ignore those complainers, there always those who think they should get something for nothing (or very little effort).
For those who want more difficult or challenging content, they should have it - but not at the expense of every other player who doesn't want the existing content made more difficult...
I don't know how much effort it will require by way of programming, but just like there are three tiers of dungeons and skirmishes (Leveling, Intermediate and Advance) there should also be an option for a scaled (or "Master") versions of these areas. Without the Master version selected most areas remain as they currently are - with the Master version selected all areas become more challenging because all players have their powers, stats and enhancements scaled, by "X" percent.
But then as I've already mentioned eventually even these scaled Master level areas will become "too easy" and the whole: "Everything's too eeeeeasy!" complaints will start appearing again.
I still think, leave everything as it is (except for the obviously 'broken' parts) and quit trying to fix stuff that isn't broken. As new content is introduced make those areas progressively more challenging (or difficult) than existing content and if anyone wants to play more difficult areas they can play the new stuff - if anyone makes a choice to queue for existing or previously released content they do so with the full knowledge it isn't going to be as challenging as the newer (or more recently released) content...
I agree that today's challenge is tomorrow's cakewalk.
I also feel as if they've used many different avenues to try and supply "easy" and "epic" versions of content in the past.
Look at normal versions spiders, demo, etc versus their epic versions. Look at K dungeons. Look at tales of old adding challenge.
All different ways to provide harder versions of content.
One would think the easiest thing to do would be return to the days of normal/epic versions. Just scale the damage imo and give lower rewards.
The mechanics shouldn't be changed since normal should be more of a training ground for when people are ready for epic.
I also don't feel like 3 year old dungeons needed to be touched. They were easy because they were 3 years old. And the notion that anyone would be happy with a harder shores run that still rewarded the same items is silly.
More time spent creating group content (dungeons, skirms, etc) and less time spent on campaigns is what I would like to see.
Maybe there's one enormous campaign dropped per year and the rest of the year is spent releasing multiple pieces of group content that tie into the campaigns story. Or just no campaign cause who cares about running those quests nowadays anyway.
I agree that today's challenge is tomorrow's cakewalk. -snip- I also don't feel like 3 year old dungeons needed to be touched. They were easy because they were 3 years old. And the notion that anyone would be happy with a harder shores run that still rewarded the same items is silly.
Yep, I agree with that part 100%... And those "easy three year old dungeons"... for the most part they're only easy for players who have been around for a while, for players new to the game they are probably just as challenging as we found them when we were playing them for the first time(s).
More time spent creating group content (dungeons, skirms, etc) and less time spent on campaigns is what I would like to see.
But have to say I disagree here...
For a lot of people, most new players and players like myself, sometimes the story line in "campaigns" definitely adds a lot to the game.
...The crown of Neverwinter is stolen and players follow a trail of clues, interacting with objects and NPC's along the way to not only recover the crown of Neverwinter, but to reduce a threat to the governing body of Neverwinter.
...The Spell plague has effected the wife of a Neverwinter guardsman and it is up to us to safely escort that person to a haven where they can -supposedly- get treatment, but there's a plot twist.
...Players are asked to investigate a farm on the outskirts of Protector's Enclave and discover just about everyone has fallen prey to vampires but as the homestead is investigated and the vampire threat is eliminated, this strange Dwarf shows up and another adventure begins.
Side quests are fine for a little break from campaigns, but as I see it campaigns are the 'meat' of what IS Neverwinter - with dungeons and skirmishes actually being just the culmination of those various campaigns -
The Cloak Tower dungeon is the repeatable endpoint and conclusion to the Tower District campaign. The Dread Legion skirmish being the repeatable endpoint and conclusion to the Dread Ring campaign...
Without the campaigns there is no back story to dungeons and skirmishes and they wind up being just so many more side quests with no or little real story behind them and that would be a real shame IMO.
Comments
And it might be the best option for Cryptic to do that. NW is largely aimed at fairly casual customers.
The trend is that most/all mmorpgs cater to the casual customers today since that is where the masses and the money are.
As I already said:
The simply stated "Game Content Is Now Too Easy" and the request/wish for less "easy" - more challenging content, appears to have been delivered... that also seems to require the coordinated participation of the group and party to successfully complete the content seems like the classic case of the Jinn's wish to me.
i found Barovia Hunt is right on track, base on scale of cards' tiers, some want hardmode. and i repeat Tales of the Old isnt right concept. it block other players not getting fullfilled the goal.
we need new variation of "Challenge Shards" and use it at leaders' choice and good group, to allow them to pick types of hardmode play.
hardmode plays allow extra amount of gold dropped, kits, potions, and better chances at epic insignas if it drops, while normal mode stays as normal run and decent rewards if players dont want harder challenges.
Undermountain's Watcher challenges is almost as good call, they are tougher and the combat scripts are not that essessive, just good enough, it allow some players to find their own Threshold base.
Just the other day, I lucked out and got in a run with thefabricant and I felt like I got carried. I'd imagine the very well-geared and well-connected people are running LoMM like we used to run eToS.
They were very interesting at the beginning and some were tough. STILL ht best mechanic Neverwinter Devs ever came up with. Would LOVE those hunts to drop decent refining stuff so we could run them again!
I am very happy with it now
Something like an...epic version of a dungeon that offers up a challenge to those of us that would like to take it on. And then an almost alternate version of that same dungeon that's dumbed down for the rest of the community. I'll call this, for lack of a better term, the normal version.
That's a novel idea. A normal and epic version of each piece of content. God I feel like I've seen that somewhere before.....
Obviously, better rewards for the harder content.
The real question at that point would be.....how long before the weaker players complain that they can't get better loot because the normal version is still too hard for them....
Outside of making a normal/epic version of each dungeon I guess the only other thing to say is....life's not fair, we're all not meant to be able to do the same thing at the same level, and if the devs made harder content it's for a reason. So improve and work up to it.
Also, more group content please. These issues are minimized if you find a way to release more than 1 piece of group content every mod targeting more than 1 portion of your playerbase.
I main a Barbarian, and from what I understand, not even BIS Barbarians are wanted in the new trial, and my character is not even close to BIS.
My other character, a Cleric, is also about 2k short of the 25k requirement. And that is with Rank 20 SH guild boons and a legendary mount. So I have no idea how to get 2,000 more Ilevel, even if I *wanted* to play a healbot (which I don't).
So I guess I will pick up my daily VIP key and maybe craft some things, in anticipation of Mod 18 which hopefully will have some Masterwork updates, and *NEW* content for the *MAJORITY* of players.
And secondly, if you want to run the new trial, id hope for u that u have some kind of Guild/friendgroup etc in game. U will need voice communication etc anyways (especially at the start) and they hopefully shoudlnt exclude u only cause u play a barb (given that u play it good)
and second: the GS u need is 24k
Some weaker players will always complain they want "better stuff", simply pointing out the way for them to get better stuff is to become better (higher level) players and queue for more difficult content should be sufficient guidance to put those complaints to rest... now obviously if someone complains they want better stuff, but they aren't willing to put forth the time and effort to become better, higher level players - then just ignore those complainers, there always those who think they should get something for nothing (or very little effort).
For those who want more difficult or challenging content, they should have it - but not at the expense of every other player who doesn't want the existing content made more difficult...
I don't know how much effort it will require by way of programming, but just like there are three tiers of dungeons and skirmishes (Leveling, Intermediate and Advance) there should also be an option for a scaled (or "Master") versions of these areas. Without the Master version selected most areas remain as they currently are - with the Master version selected all areas become more challenging because all players have their powers, stats and enhancements scaled, by "X" percent.
But then as I've already mentioned eventually even these scaled Master level areas will become "too easy" and the whole: "Everything's too eeeeeasy!" complaints will start appearing again.
I still think, leave everything as it is (except for the obviously 'broken' parts) and quit trying to fix stuff that isn't broken. As new content is introduced make those areas progressively more challenging (or difficult) than existing content and if anyone wants to play more difficult areas they can play the new stuff - if anyone makes a choice to queue for existing or previously released content they do so with the full knowledge it isn't going to be as challenging as the newer (or more recently released) content...
Seems like a no brainer to me ~
I also feel as if they've used many different avenues to try and supply "easy" and "epic" versions of content in the past.
Look at normal versions spiders, demo, etc versus their epic versions.
Look at K dungeons.
Look at tales of old adding challenge.
All different ways to provide harder versions of content.
One would think the easiest thing to do would be return to the days of normal/epic versions. Just scale the damage imo and give lower rewards.
The mechanics shouldn't be changed since normal should be more of a training ground for when people are ready for epic.
I also don't feel like 3 year old dungeons needed to be touched. They were easy because they were 3 years old. And the notion that anyone would be happy with a harder shores run that still rewarded the same items is silly.
More time spent creating group content (dungeons, skirms, etc) and less time spent on campaigns is what I would like to see.
Maybe there's one enormous campaign dropped per year and the rest of the year is spent releasing multiple pieces of group content that tie into the campaigns story. Or just no campaign cause who cares about running those quests nowadays anyway.
And those "easy three year old dungeons"... for the most part they're only easy for players who have been around for a while, for players new to the game they are probably just as challenging as we found them when we were playing them for the first time(s). But have to say I disagree here...
For a lot of people, most new players and players like myself, sometimes the story line in "campaigns" definitely adds a lot to the game.
...The crown of Neverwinter is stolen and players follow a trail of clues, interacting with objects and NPC's along the way to not only recover the crown of Neverwinter, but to reduce a threat to the governing body of Neverwinter.
...The Spell plague has effected the wife of a Neverwinter guardsman and it is up to us to safely escort that person to a haven where they can -supposedly- get treatment, but there's a plot twist.
...Players are asked to investigate a farm on the outskirts of Protector's Enclave and discover just about everyone has fallen prey to vampires but as the homestead is investigated and the vampire threat is eliminated, this strange Dwarf shows up and another adventure begins.
Side quests are fine for a little break from campaigns, but as I see it campaigns are the 'meat' of what IS Neverwinter - with dungeons and skirmishes actually being just the culmination of those various campaigns -
The Cloak Tower dungeon is the repeatable endpoint and conclusion to the Tower District campaign. The Dread Legion skirmish being the repeatable endpoint and conclusion to the Dread Ring campaign...
Without the campaigns there is no back story to dungeons and skirmishes and they wind up being just so many more side quests with no or little real story behind them and that would be a real shame IMO.
¢¢